the Missouri bellwether says "No you can't Obama" and "yes you can Hillary".

Current polling data has Obama losing the two principle bellwether staes of Ohio and Missouri. The same polling datat has Hillary winning both states handily. That's Florida, Ohio and Missouri trending in favor of Hillary and against Obama. Obama will cost us the presidency, the supreme court, and, quite probably, Roe V Wade. He'll also force us to remain in Iraq for the next 100 years. he can't win where we need to win. Hillary can. You need to take your fingers out of your ears and open your eyes and see what's going on outside of your imaginary world. He's not winning who, where, and how we need to win.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May04.html">Obama loses to McCain by 8 points in Missouri

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May04.html">Hillary beats McCain by 1 point in Missouri

Or not.

How could any dumb fuck win a war when they are too busy running for cover to avoid imaginary sniper fire??

:crazy:

Going for Obama big time in Columbia. He won Boone county and a huge pool of volunteers.

Dream on.

.

:rofl:

Do the math it's already over.

:sarcasm:

Obama TIED MO.

The only thing that matters is delegates, right, and they were equal

supporters. Almost everyone I know loathes her for her vote for the Iraq war and her support for Kyl Lieberman. She is seen as a female George w Bush among my associates.

Those Hillary supporters I do know tend to be wealthier, with fewer financial concerns.

areas of MO. Yes, they vote in rural MO but too often they vote against their own economic interests. They tend to vote for politicians that pander to their fears (Hillary anyone?) My guess is that if G-d forbid Hillary gets the nomination, she'll be schlepping the back streets of MO in new pickup trucks with regularity.

There's a small city with a large University. The student volunteer pool is the story here.
He won it 60\40

the first and third Congressional districts are what put it over the top for McCaskill.

The second district (still St. Louis) is important too--in the sense of how many don't vote.

What typically swings MO red more than the rural areas is Springfield.

I live in a politically complicated state.

I am hoping Obama is the nominee because he brings coattails to a nominee in my congressional district. It has been vacated by Kenny Husholf, so it is open. Since MU sits in the district, there is a chance that Obama can help bring it.

and SD are falling over themselves endorsing him. 264 more delegates and he is the nominee. He'll get a nice bunch of that on Tuesday.

They are BOTH beating McCain at the site you reference. In fact take a close look at the map. You will notice that the Red States get redder when its Hillary as the Nominee, and even though some states get LESS BLUE for OBAMA, he actually puts more states in pLAY because he makes them "LESS RED" plus he is beating mccain in Colorado and Iowa (16 votes). Its about who is the better candidtate sure, but who is the stronger candidated and OBAMA candidacy can draw in more total voters and help us in red states (down balloters) and even if he doesnt win help our popular vote majority. The problem with Hillarys BIG STATE Thingy is that its depeendent on winning a such and such group of states and if you lose one you are done. Take a look at your map again.

and Hillary wins them. It's pretty lame that you ignore the fact that Obama wins by 1 electoral vote and Hillary wins by 55 too while making your case that the country gets more blue with Obama no less.

If winning a bellwether meant winning everywhere, then candidates would only campaign in bellwethers.

additionally, polls this far out are meaningless.

Finally, the argument that Hillary can win here but Obama cannot flies in the face of the "Obama cannot win states in a GE that Hillary won in the nomination phase"--not that that argument ever made any sense.


Ultimately the person wins in November is the person who can be more competitive in the most states. If Democrats are ever going to win again, the red-state blue-state paradigm needs to be shattered.

Like i said why Yammer about Missouri when by his own map OBAMA is more COMPETITIVE in MORE STATES, damn tell you what Ill GIVE mcCain Missouri if we become more competitive because of OBAMA in 7 more states than Hillary. I just hated how he didnt even read the data on the map before he wandered off about missouri. He dint even point out that OBAMA beats McCain in Michigan on that map but Hillary Loses. He picks the one thing (and OHIO) that looks good for her. Damn I hate that sort of narrowness

would be going after Hillary relentlessly just like they are going after Obama. Those numbers would be flipped. The Media is doing everything they can to keep this thing going and you are buying into it.

Don't worry about Missouri. We're not winning it this year.

for some inexplicable reason.

Oh yeah. We didn't just unseat an incumbent Senator there in 2006, did we.

MO, please don't make this any harder than it needs to be. Please get under the bus now. We don't want to have to throw you.

McCaskill was an excellent candidate, no question. But that was in a tidal wave year for us and it was the Senate, not the Presidential race.

He will do as well if not better than Sen Clinton. Trust me on this.

Are you full of doodie. Yes 1, No 0
I trust the polls

What if she had won all those states instead of Obama.
What if she had raised all that money instead of Obama.
What if she had 1.5 million donors instead of Obama.
What if she had more delegates than Obama.

What if she had really dodged sniper fire.
What if she had really been against NAFTA.
What if she really regretted her IWR vote.

What if she really was a Democrat.

Hillary Is not liked here.I grew up In Missouri.Trust me on this.Obama has been hurt because of all
the muslim smears against him.But some polls after the smear went around suggested he would lose by double digets and now It Is down 8.

In Missouri to win A democrat needs strong turnout In St. Louis,and Kansas City.Some here said
Kerry made a big mistake pulling out of Missouri.If there Is any decressed Democratic Turnout In
St Louis,and Kansas City Kiss Missouri to Mccain.

definitely looking at a McCain win in Missouri. The right HATES Hillary. I am of the opinion that the right knows they have a crappy candidate in McCain and the only way for him to win is for it to encourage pugs to vote as Dems in primaries. If they are able to steal the nomination in this way and convince Dems there is this groundswell of opposition to the pugs, and make Hillary the nominee, they can go back and resurrect the intense negatives Hillary has across the country and march on to a McCain victory.

Remember most of the country doesn't bother to vote in the general election, let alone the primaries. There is a well orchestrated campaign afoot on part of the right wing to have as many people cross over and vote Hillary. They did it to Cynthia McKinney in Georgia and it worked there. The same thing is being done in the Democratic primaries. Rent American Blackout if you want to see what the Republicans in Georgia did and then think about the sudden increase in Democratic primary votes.

Or do you choose to trust only those polls that show a despised woman as winning against McCain?

Apparently you've never been to Cincinnati.

What a moronic, laughable thing to say.

"I hate the guy's fucking guts." I think there's an ointment for that, aquarius.

Personally, I go around Cincinatti if at all possible.

Serious question.

:shrug:

about Hillary Clinton. I look at her now and see a female George W Bush.

as the Democratic nominee. People underestimate her HUGE negatives at the party's peril.

we don't hate his guts. Obama won Montgomery County easily.

Please don't speak for all of us Buckeyes. You're not our spokesperson.

:crazy:

I am amazed that Obama has taken her to task. He has either done pretty good on the campaign trail or she has sucked pretty bad on the campaign trail. Perhaps a little of both, plus the media spun Obama as its darling and Hillary and Bill Clinton as 'entitled' / inevitable to the nomination.

Either way, I am amazed Obama has done so well.

...then please explain why the fuck she cannot beat Obama?

Duh.....:eyes:

which, aside form being incredibly undemocratic, favored Obama.

began losing them.

Didn't have any problem with them when Bill was WINNING them all.

6 months ago when comparing Clinton to Obama? Polls have not been particularly reliable this cycle even when taken close to an election, using them to try to predict whatwill happen 5 months from now is MEANINGLESS and only fodder for silly talk.

are running against McCain right now - they're still running against each other.

After Obama finishes off Clinton and turns his full attention to McCain, you will see he taking states that Clinton has NO chance of taking - states like Missouri.

Right now, Operation Chaos is still fully in play, with republicans pumping up support for Hillary so they can face her in the GE. That's all that these polls reflect.

He's still bleeding out from the Rev. Wright thing and that wound isn't goinbg toclose between now and November. And, as trivial as you may think it is, lots of Americans are disturbed by what they've seen and heard.

There are people who never forget stuff like that.

so who gives a fuck?

He WILL draw independents (that translates as disaffected progressive democrats) back to the party, which Hillary could never do because it was the Clintons and the DLC that drove them out of the party in the first place.

NJ shows a major case of buyers remorse with respect to Hillary.

called the state as a projected HClinton win.

So he beat her among registered, motivated Demcorats.

McCain has gone unchallenged for some weeks now and has a headstart, but he's still feeble, explosive, inarticulate, uninformed, and quite defeatable.

Including in Missouri and Ohio.

She lost.

Funny how all the bias MSM never point this fact out. All they discuss is the number of Delegates...not where they come from and that's far more important than how many states he won etc. Hillary could win all the big states, important electoral GE states, even the popular vote, have the momentum and maybe SD. Obama people would still claim the election was STOLEN from it's rightful owner and then refuse to vote for Hillary. Doesn't make a Democratic President look possible should that happen.

got his royal ass booted from here to Hong Kong by Ronald Reagan.

You need to play fair, Auntie Bush.

We're running against McCain. He's the Republican we need to beat.

Mondale never had a chance (edit: especially after the Reagan Democrats abandoned him).

I suggested that primary victories by a Democrat in a given state do not demonstrate certain electability in a general election.

"plunk up" means.

Do I even want to know what it means?

On the issue of phoniness, do we have an update on that sniper fire in Bosnia? God, that must have been harrowing for that poor woman.

obama folk who are not able to forgive. She has publicly apologized for that issue.

Your adjective was "phony."

One responds as one reads.

My husband and most of his gun-totin', beer-guzzling, fishing buddies are now solidly behind Obama. We have a big gubernatorial contest coming up this fall. We are sweeping the Republican plague that is Matt Blunt out of our Governor's Mansion. Jay Nixon is well in front and the combo of Obama and Jay Nixon will make Missouri a very, very lovely shade of blue this fall.

I doubt any gun-totin' person would be behind Barack if they knew that.

I can't see Obama winning Florida and Ohio.

I can definitely see him losing all 4, NV, NH, OH and FL, that's 56 electoral votes going to McCain.

.

But Pennsylvania will be difficult for him against McCain. New Mexico is up for grabs, it's so close. And McCain certainly has a shot at all of these states as well.

Obama has almost no margin for error. He basically has to run the table to win.

.

I think he'd lose them all if the election were held today. But it's five months away, things change.

If the people of Missouri and Ohio are too stupid to vote in their own best interests after that, then they get what they deserve. After Hillary gets off his pantleg all this shit will change.