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Puerto Rico has delegates to the convention, but no electoral vote(s)

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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 04:51 PM
Original message
Puerto Rico has delegates to the convention, but no electoral vote(s)
Can someone explain why Puerto Rico's voters have a say in who our
nominee is, but -- since PR is not a state -- they have no electoral vote
in the general election? It seems to me that if their votes are to be
considered during the primary, they should also have a say in the general
(or, conversely, if they don't have an electoral vote, they shouldn't
have input on our nominee).
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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. We do all sorts of things like this. Almost all of Obama's lead comes from states that we'll never
win in a GE. Everyone gets a say, no matter how much they matter in the general.
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I don't get how HRC may use PR's 2 million popular votes in her argument
to the Supers since -- although that's a lot of people -- their votes
in the general carry so little weight ...
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Here are some states that "we'll never win in a GE" apparently:
Connecticut
Delaware
Illinois
Minnesota
Wisconsin
DC
Maryland
Vermont

Those states "don't count" I guess.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. Jeezus, don't forget Hawaii, Washington, Maine, Missouri, Colorado
and Iowa.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Hillary has a very good chance of losing Washington. Obama would sweep my state.
That's even more true of Oregon. Us Cascadians live in a very dicey dynamic where the urban areas are balanced out by the suburban/rural areas. This is an ideal battleground for McCain, yet the polls have shown that Obama has clear leads in both states. A divisive figure like Clinton - as unfair as it may be - would be very likely to turn both WA and OR to McCain, who for some unknown reason appeals to us PacNW folk.
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nebulovsky Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. True
Utah, for example.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Democratic Party, being generally more open to minority opinion, sees Puerto Rico, Guam, and DC
Edited on Mon May-05-08 04:53 PM by jsamuel
as more than the Republicans do. While the representatives get no vote in congress, they at least get a vote in the primaries.
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Actually the Republicans also have delegations from those areas.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. oh, thanks, but they oppose them getting a say in federal issues, funny that
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. True but DC gets to vote for President at least.
PR and Guam would have to become states and the population of both has not agreed to that concept.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Because they are Democrats
So they participate in the party primary. To have federal electoral votes they would have to become a state, which so far they haven't done.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Puerto Rico doesn't need to be a state to have electoral votes.
Look at DC.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. DC residents pay taxes, though
It was taxation without representation, right? I don't believe the territories do unless something has changed. The discussion about PR becoming a state has gone on so long, but as I remember, they'd need to become a state and pay federal income taxes to get electoral votes.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. A primary isn't actually an election...it's more of a poll of Democrats.
...so all Democrats get polled whether they can vote in the general or not
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Seems dumb to me.
But even if Hillary and Bill win the primary with 100% of the vote, I wouldn't advocate changing the rules for this primary season. Change it later.
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Growler Donating Member (896 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I disagree that it's dumb
The President is the President of ALL US citizens (something GW doesn't understand), even ones that don't live in a state. I think it's totally fair to do a survey of all Democrats to see who they think would be a great President. That's what the primary is all about.
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think it should be consistent, though
Edited on Mon May-05-08 05:39 PM by LSparkle
If they're going to be counted in terms of their opinions in
the primary, then why not have them become states and have
electoral votes? I don't know why they aren't states if they
have that kind of input -- perhaps they don't want the negative
impact of becoming states, but still want to participate in
primaries. To me, it should be all or nothing ...
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Never happen...redesigning the flag would be a total pain
I am not being entirely serious.
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. And needless to say, D.C. NEEDS TO BE A STATE!
That's a huge crime (imho).
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Hillary and BILL?
I don't think he's on the ballot.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. Does he know that?
He sure doesn't act like it.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. This Angers me
so much because Puerto Rico constantly votes not to become a state.

We could use the 2 more senators and house reps they would give us.
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Thanks for answering my underlying question -- why isn't PR a state?
If it's THEIR choice, then I don't see how their residents should
have a say in who our presidential nominee should be ...
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. They have voted against it
At least 5 times in the past 30 years.

The key issue is as a territory they don't have to pay Federal Income Tax but get all the benefits of citizenship.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Have you ever seen the local tax in PR? I wouldn't want to pay Federal Income Tax when .........
your local tax is that of a regular state and federal income tax combined.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Yeah, Like Being Subject To The Draft And Dieing By The Thousands In Viet Nam
Maybe we should just grant them independence like we did the Philippines; the other spoils of the Spanish American War (which we started)...
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. They don't want that either
They vote against independence too....they want the status quo
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. they are US citizens
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. They're citizens. They have a right to a say on the nominee. Come Nov., many may vote from a state.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. Neither does Guam or US Virgin Islands.
I think they should have electoral votes. They are considered American citizens.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. If they want electoral votes
Edited on Mon May-05-08 05:44 PM by Jake3463
Than they pay federal income tax like the rest of us.

The reason Puerto Rico isn't a state is they don't want to pay Federal Income Tax.

No representation without taxation :-)
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Unless you live in D.C. ...
:)
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. 1/2 right
DC gets to vote in Presidential Elections...they don't have the population for two senators they should get a house member though since congress is in charge of the district.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe We Should Grant Them Independence Like We Did The Philippines
Edited on Mon May-05-08 05:48 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
Puerto Ricans are American citizens and subject to the draft and dies by the thousands in Viet Nam...
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. The Philippines wanted independence. PR does not.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. correct, there is a big debate about whether to become a state or stay a protectorate
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. I want them to become a state
They lean democrat and that would be 2 senators and at least a few house members.
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