they read the same way

about Open Government or addressing Poverty in a comprehensive way.

It was well written. It left me totally flat. I did not read the one with the title from Wright. I read the one where he is searching for fathers.

If he can't do that now, what good is he going to be when it comes to anything else?

meaning it doesn't need itself to be true.

...


meaning nothing but the sweet sound of crickets....

...

also, encore! encore! take your bow: you win this week's squirrel touché award:




~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

the person doing so. Obama has called for a windfall profits tax in those very words on multiple occasions.

He is the President that will take a good look at our problems and earnestly attempt to fix things.

Hillary has shown me that she is incapable of making the hard choices we need to make to transition from an oil based economy. I have been scared to death about peak oil for the last 4 years and Hillary and McCain have shown me they have no clue about what we are facing.

I always think that I couldn't like the guy more, but then he does yet another thing that makes me think "That's my Guy!"

p.s. Are you really excited about someone who doesn't believe in economics? I don't get that at all.

Otherwise we run out.

The question is, do we want the $ to go to the oil companies, or to our highway fund.

Since you don't understand this concept, you should read Atrios:

http://www.eschatonblog.com/

I never said I didn't like Obama.

I can't convince everyone to like Obama. I just hope I can convince Democrats to vote for him over McCain.

Man, that's fucking funny.

I gotta give you points for a new pejorative. It's nice to see something other than "weak, inexperienced, unelectable, wimp, etc,etc, ad nauseum...although I think he has PLENTY of gravitas.

Flapping around promising windfall profits tax proceeds to multiple groups as an exercise in pandering in a pantsuit lacks a little gravitas, too, don't it??

Fail


edited for idiocy

It's kinda like I felt after the "Pinned Down By Sniper-Fire" on-stage performance. Apparently, a lot of people loved it. But once I saw the movie it was based on, I kinda felt ... well, LIED TO.

But you can't argue with the fact that Hillary survived her "trial by fire" - too bad it turned out to be all smoke and mirrors - although I am sure her intentions were good. Quite an accomplishment.

You are managing to make yourself look worse and less and less like the insightful commentator you used to be and likely never will return to again.

It's not the end of the world.

Doesn't stop such actions from weakening her credibility.

Self implosion is glorious to behold. Particularly the slow simmer variety, frantically chipping away at the same bone, in this case a preoccupation with Sniper World.

Nothing more entertaining right now than posters who don't know how to win.

I miss the old Nance, this new Nance needs to be returned for a refund because she's nothing like the old Nance was.

:thumbsup:

Yours in this case.

Bravo, par for the course for GDP these days!

So maybe I did not address that directly. Now I have.

No matter how much you might not like it.

And doesn't stop what you said from being pithy and uninformative.

"Very pithy, uninformative, and fails to address what I actually said."

I have never held myself out as an 'insightful commentator'. I am just another DUer, expressing my view of things - sometimes people agree with that view, sometimes they don't.

And I don't apologize for pointing out that, among other poor conduct, Hillary lied to the public - and no, it wasn't a mis-speak, or something said off-the-cuff. It was a lie, which she repeated in prepared speeches, several times. And I have never known anyone who has 'mis-remembered' sniper-fire that never happened due to being tired.

I realize that lie is a reality that Hillary supporters don't like being reminded of - many have forgiven her this transgression, have moved on, and have focused instead on her other qualities and abilities. That's fine; I have never demeaned or insulted any of her supporters for their choice in doing so.

However, that doesn't change the fact of the lie, its impact on her credibility as a candidate, or my right to raise the subject on a thread which is posted for the sole purpose of demeaning my candidate-of-choice.

Now you spend your venom on other Democrats when we should be gearing up for the real fight especially since BOTH sides have lied about eachother and themselves consistently in this race, at this point neither candidate is clean.

I see something wrong with that considering you are seen by many on here was a once-insightful commentator whose opinion was widely respected. Now you're fast approaching the state of being a has-been.

... I'm more of a never-was.

..the skies will open...

..angelic choirs will sing..

Yeah.

Here's mine: I think your candidate sucks too. And I did it in so many fewer keystrokes!

he hasn't been tested. Interpret it as you will.
Obama doesn't suck.

but I'm not sure what it means. Tested by what? I'm willing to bet he scored high on his SATs and LSATs. Let's see, he's been tested in 46 primaries and caucuses and has won 31 of them. His ability to raise money for a campaign has been tested, and proved superior to every other candidate. He's been tested and delivered on his promise to forgo money from registered lobbyists. He's been tested on his ability to withstand racially tinged attacks by his Democratic opponent. I'm even willing to bet that he's passed a driver's test, would pass a test measuring competence in pumping gasoline, and would surely ace an examination crafted to ascertain one's ability to dispense coffee from a convenience store coffee machine.

So please, tell me, why you claim he hasn't been tested, and what kind of test you'd like to subject him to. Maybe exercising sound judgment about going to war in Iraq? Or is it that you want to see how he would hold up under sniper fire?

very much:)

:hug:

and failed.

http://www.ctj.org/html/desc97.htm

"A decade ago, public anger over rampant corporate and high-income tax avoidance spurred a Republican President, a Democratic House of Representatives and a Republican Senate to work together to produce the Tax Reform Act of 1986. While not perfect, that legislation gave us a federal income tax code with relatively few loopholes and, as a consequence, relatively low tax rates (excessively low, one might say, since they were insufficient to pay for public spending).

Unfortunately, Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich and Democratic President Bill Clinton have never concealed their disdain for the achievements of 1986. Gingrich helped lead an almost successful fight in the House to defeat the '86 reform act, while Clinton has publicly stated that he thinks the 1986 reforms "went too far." Indeed, Clinton's June 1993 description of his 1993 deficit-reducing upper-income tax increase aptly sums up his tax philosophy: "We raised tax rates, but we tried to find ways for people who've been successful, who have money, to lower their taxes."

"Find ways for people . . . who have money to lower their taxes" was the central theme of the 1997 tax act, and on this issue Clinton and Gingrich are apparently soul mates--Gingrich, unabashedly, and Clinton, in practice if not always in rhetoric. Only a few weeks before the 1997 act was finally approved, Clinton promised that he would never sign anything like the unfair, budget-busting tax bills then pending in Congress. Sadly, that promise turned out to be an empty one."

Part of Hillary's many years of experience. She herself was tested with the IWR, and also failed. I'd rather take a chance on an untested rookie than put in the league's leader in striking out.

Fasimile is not a word. Did you mean facsimile? You probably should not go anywhere near trials by fire dear, the LION OF TUZLA has been caught in her own. Now rock on with your one wheeled bicycle.

How is the bike working out?

Anyone watch Jeffrey. The only good thing about that movie was Sigourney Weaver's self-help guru.

The trenches only get deeper in other rust belt cities like cleveland or pittsburgh.

All of them the depths of destruction of the American dream with the loss of steel industrial complexes and the damage further compounded by much of what Bill Clinton signed into law in the 90s.

Those are the trenches Obama has fought in, real America, not some Washington view of America.

Again not some johnny come lately esoteric mind game, I have walked the walk in two of those destroyed worlds, and I can tell you Obama accomplished tremendous amounts for real people to survive that devastation.

I dont support Obama because he has good intentions to run for president, I have supported Obama for 5 years because he has made his actions speak louder for more real people than any Politician I have seen since I started voting over 20 years ago.

You've said he fought. Fought what? The south side of Chicago had senior citizens living under the neglect of a slum lord whom Obama facilitated, and Obama did absolutely nothing to help these poor people. That's abusive.

The only thing I see substantiated on what Obama did in the south side, was to play typical back room politics, driven by blind ambitions, caring only about getting elected, pandering and posturing.

Please name just ONE THING Obama did in the figurative trenches of the south side? Fight to get dirt out on his opponent so he could win?

a Parrot.

Obama organized job training and other programs for poor and working-class residents of Altgeld Gardens.

Altgeld Gardens is and was a public housing development located near numerous manufacturing plants, former steel mills, waste dumps and landfills on the south side of Chicago and the area is one of the densest concentrations of potentially hazardous pollution sources in North America.

This is on those destroyed worlds I talked about.

Life is death in Altgeld Gardens, and there is only one place worse in Chicago, Cabrini Green. The difference there is the pollution is gang related rather than chemical.

All of that chemical wasteland was created by an industrial complex that when it died took all of the areas jobs, Obama fought and cajoled the system into creating job training vocational programs to repurpose as many people as could be helped.

He was not alone, he didn't do it magically, he did it with a lot of work, a lot of communication with others and a knowledge of what REAL life was like for those who were forgotten or lost to the system.

Be thankful that you have never been exposed to that kind of reality and are afforded the opportunity and relative comfort to sit in judgment of those who have and those that worked to give them a hand up.

Would it have been easier for him to stay at a cushy Attorney job in New York? Absolutely, but many people that he crossed paths with thank what ever deity they chose that he and others like him he was working with didn't.

That was the late 80s, Obama didn't chose politics, Politics chose him, because it was just another extension to the tools he needed to help people that needed it most and he continues to do that today.

You can now go back to your comfort zone and look down your nose at those you can never understand and those you have never had to be.

So what. People are getting motivated. It's not a bad thing.

Why don't we discuss issues that really matter instead of this shit?

I could care less when they, personally, believe life begins.

You can look it up on the internet.

And, more importantly, for corporate outsourcing, etc.

I think both have said things that have been attacked by the other campaign as suggesting a willingness to attack pre-emptively -- Obama, for example, on Pakistan.

you rock Boz! perfect multi-tiered multivalent demonstration of the hypocricy and denial HRC's acolytes wallow in.

A belated welcome to DU . :thumbsup:

:patriot:

"I am prepared to wait for my answer until hell freezes over"

you'd be lucky to get Churchill's famous metastasis though:



That name-play pun at the end always kills me....

I'm no longer sure of your points.

Granted, I'm not swooning over every speech he makes, because I'm an old-time hack. But I have NEVER seen the kind of enthusiasm he inspires in previously apolitical people. Hillary just doesn't do it. Maybe she could have, but she chose the entrenched establishment route, with the added enticement that she's the first woman.

Do I think he can accomplish his promises? I don't know. But I'll cast my lot in with the candidate who has gotten scores of regular people to pay attention and donate money, any day, over the one who gets big checks from the usual suspects and is the "establishment" candidate.

Think about it: Someone who can get $$millions$$ from regular people doesn't have to toady to the Powers That Be. That's why they're scared shitless of him and making a big deal of his pastor and other inconsequential crap. It's amazing, and hilarious, to watch it. If he disappoints us, oh well, we cut him off and start over with someone else. But Barack Obama has done something that no Presidential candidate before him ever accomplished.

:toast:

If I can vote for the most decent, capable person that bears some resemblance to a democrat, that's enough for now. It's not sexy and you will never see it on a bumper sticker.

lol

...he can't swill whiskey, swagger and doesn't use Republican swiftboat networks to obliterate his opponent because he can't win on his own merits, - like Hillary does. And he doesn't by GAWD use KKKarl Rove's political playbook against someone else in his own party just to 'win'. Yeaboy, that Obama just doesn't have GRAVITASS.

But he does have INTEGRITY.

Hillary can keep her Republican-style GRAVITASS and the Republicans can keep HER.

Seems we've had enough of that kind of GRAVITASS from George W. bu$h. And you all hated it for the past eight years from HIM and the Republicans.

ALL OF A SUDDEN - it's A-OK when Hillary does it. But then she's a Republican, too. Nevermind the pantsuit with a 'D' on it.

I don't want another eight years of that shit. I don't give DAMN WHO is doing it.

Pffft!

IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, Flag Burning...to name a few.

She has the "Gravitas" of a bowl of pablum.

November when her campaign finance fraud case puts her on the stand.

Guess that's what MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars can buy you. :eyes:

You gotta be kidding. He's crushed the Clinton machine. Pretty much single-handedly. I think for most mortals, that would be a test.

You must be one of those folks who attributes super-human powers to Obama, in which case, you are right, he hasn't been tested.

I think not. I think the sexist media did most of the work for him. If you are a male presidental candidate all you have to do is sit back and let the male media call Hillary "babe", comment on her pantsuits, use the terms witch, bitch and others and I could go on and on. Even if Obama is nominated he will limp into the GE because he now knows that women are the largest voting bloc in the country and he will have to go a long way to convince the more than half who support Hillary that he isn't just part of the "good ole boys club" and will probably write in for Hillary. Now add that to Ron Paul who is getting 16% right now and Nader who probably won't get more than 5% in the GE.

You think he won because Hillary is a girl?

That's just demented.

but I'd rather just say I hate those goddam Shrek movies.

Far from being a “messiah,” Obama says as often as possible that he isn’t going to change diddlysquat unless his supporters stay organized and involved after the election. He’s put his money where is mouth is and spent it on organizing and training. After 9/11, there was a great upwelling of an urge to do something for America from people of all political stripes, answered by the Repukes with a call to go shopping and to be afraid, very afraid. Finally we have a call to common citizenship from a presidential primary finalist.

Will THAT kindle a tiny spark of HOPE in your heart for our democracy BigBearJohn?

It already has for me. WE just gave him ALL the money he asked for and then some this night before the NC and IN primary. This says to me that We The People want change, we don't want politics as usual.

Why are WE THE PEOPLE wrong for wanting this? Who among the remaining three fosters such hope among We The People? Perhaps we have been massively fooled by forces counter to our wishes but if so, then it is even more apparent that the other two candidates would play us as fools too. We wish to be done with that and we feel that this may be our last best chance TO be done with that.

At worst we choose in Obama, the lesser of three evils but I do not believe that is what goes on here. I believe that this is the start of something quite extraordinary. I believe that there is a good chance that due to the unprecedented massive voter turn out that has been building, (and will continue to build in November), WE THE PEOPLE will elect a populist POTUS. We will do this in a landslide that the world will notice, (and celebrate)!

The world will have seen us rise up, literally from the bottom up to put an end to what America has become! Americans will have made a statement, a REAL mandate dictated by that unprecedented voter turn-out: This is OUR DEMOCRACY and by God we have taken it back from those who held it for soooooo long and have done so much that is wrong IN OUR NAME YET AGAINST OUR WILL!

I believe that will be the interpretation by all on our ailing world, they too want this and you know I am right! Our planet is broken, we know how it got that way and who did it. The world HOPES that AMERICANS can either help fix it or get the hell out of the way. If we elect a President Obama in the numbers that I think we will, I DO believe the world will see Americans as wanting to be a major part in that repair! We can do just that you know!

Do you think that any of our elected Representatives can stand against such a mandate??? Do you believe that President Obama will be siding against that mandate? He will be getting his sleeves rolled up by our collective will regardless of what his plans may have been. We will be rolling ours up as well and I know that you will be there with us.

I am saddened for you specifically and a few other DUers like you, not because you back an opposing candidate but because I will feel your deep loss even in our moment of victory. (I guess that is a curse only a 'liberal' can understand.) Your posts over the years have been an inspiration to many here...you are one of us, not our adversary.... I look forward to seeing you on the other side.

Plainly put, I just see Hillary as having a better
chance of winning the Presidency.

No one here has convinced me how Barack will win
the General Election.

You think things are ugly now? You haven't seen anything yet.
The republican slime machine is sitting around sharpening
it's claws and knives. ANYTHING Hillary did to Obama
will seem like child's play compared to what the republicans
will do to him. They have attacked Hillary for over 16 years
and haven't destroyed her yet.

I pray that Barack will survive the republican steam roller.
Oddly enough, I don't want to be right with regards to this.
I will be as happy as you if he wins the presidency. But
I am more of realist (at least in MY reality). I am sorry
but I just can't see how Barack will win the general election.

I hope for all our sakes that I am dead wrong. Time will tell.

Those voters who have lost their jobs because of the bush policies are considerable in numbers...they will be voting AGAINST more bush policies.

Those voters who have sons and daughters who have served more than one term in Iraq or Afghanistan are considerable in numbers...they will be voting AGAINST bush's fiasco in the Middle East.

Those voters who have lost their homes because of bush's economics and they are considerable in numbers...they will be voting AGAINST bush's failed economics plans.

Those voters who have children who may be old enough to go off to war soon and they are considerable in numbers... they will be voting against bush's wars.

Those voters with enough education to see that our very Constitution is being undermined by bush and they are considerable in numbers... they will be voting AGAINST a continuance of this attack upon our Constitution.

Those voters who are sick of politics as usual and they are considerable in numbers...won't be sitting home this time around and they will be voting AGAINST the usual politicians.

Each and every one of these voters will vote for Senator Obama because it is a vote AGAINST what mCcain promises: MORE bush!

Would you bet that these voters would actually find reasons to vote FOR: More job loss? More tours of duty in combat zones for their sons and daughters? More homes lost to foreclosures? More attacks on our Constitution? More wars? More politics as usual? I wouldn't bet that to be in our future.

Did you notice that I haven't even brought up Democrats or Republicans until now? This is no longer about Republicans and Democrats, it is about Americans and the suffering that we have each been forced to endure! Republicans will be voting in staggering numbers for Barrack Obama because they understand now how their democracy or their children or their wallets or their jobs have been so damaged by the bush agenda...they will want NONE of this.

What is painfully obvious to me from how I see America right now, no matter how it gets spun, no matter how many Rev.Wrights are thrown at the Democratic nominee and no matter how many votes get caged or stolen or electronically swapped, We The People will be placing a Democrat in the White House! The bush administration will have turned Republican supporters utterly against the Neo-Cons. We The People will be turning out in numbers that are staggering and we will be doing this with one simple mission: THROW THE DAMNED BUMS OUT!

You worry that the Neo-Cons will be doing what they do best...well I tell you that I DEARLY HOPE that they do just that! It will harm them even further and it will strengthen our nominee. Let the crooks come out and perform their crimes in the light of day where the electorate can plainly see them doing so....let the bully's get all belligerent against our nominee...it will cost them even more dearly, it will only sink them even faster!

May I predict that there will be Republican's in fear of losing their jobs come November throwing their own under the bus fairly soon? The bush crime family has wrecked the Republican Party and soon the very gates of Hell will open to swallow them for what they have done. This November there will be an utter blowout...the primary we endure now is not for the Democratic nominee, it is for the next President Of The United States and you know what? Even Senator mCcain knows this...he has been thrown under the bus once again.

That is HOW and WHY we will win in November. The job of President is no longer open for a Republican...they can no longer even take it away from our party! Their only hope is for Senator Obama to give it back to them....Senator Clinton is even now seeing the futility of that particular plan.

I will confess to three concerns of my own, to three ways that Senator Obama will be stopped from being POTUS. The first is if Senator Clinton goes Independent. Whatever I may have thought about Senator Clinton, political suicide does not come to mind. A second fear that I have: bullets. They have done their deeds in the past and we can only hope or pray that they don't find their marks this time. The third way is a bush hostile takeover, (declaration of Marshal Law and suspension of the election). Barring any of these three, Senator Obama will be our next President.

as well. And I personally believe that promising to obliterate another nation is evil, and having voted for the war in Iraq was evil.

I'll take the good intentions over the evil actions any day.

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, under attack from a rival who portrays him as naive on foreign policy, declared Wednesday that he would use military force against Al Qaeda operatives hiding in tribal areas of Pakistan if that nation did not move more aggressively against them first.

Source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-obama2aug02,0,5330469.story?coll=chi-newsbreaking-hed

On September 24, Barack Obama--the Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate from Illinois, and a shoo-in favorite--suggested "surgical missile strikes" on Iran may become necessary. Obama told the Chicago Tribune.

in case she needs to use it today? :rofl:

By the way, are you sure it's not Obama spanking Hillary this primary season that bugs you about his campaign? It must be so hard watching the coronation slip away from her.

Actually, it sickened me.

All she'll do is what Bill has done. And that brought us Bush.

The only reason I back Obama is because he is going to be our nominee. All Clinton is, is a roadblock.

My life was the BEST it ever was
during the Clinton administration.

If I could bring back those days,
I would do so in a minute. I don't
know what your life was like during
Clinton's 8 years, but mine was great.

I'm old enough to remember life under real Democratic administrations. Funny that.

"benevolent corporatist"


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You don't think Clinton is a benevolent corporatist?

Promises, promises, promises. Tell the people what they want to hear.

The only thing I can add is that, underneath all the "inspiration," he isn't even "talking the good talk" much of the time, unless right wing talking points are "good talk."

and the main reason I don't support Obama.

Bush is leaving behind a big mess, likely with quite a few nasty surprises thrown in. We need a candidate who can deal with it, particularly the difficult areas like foreign policy and the economy.

I agree, no matter how good one's intentions may be, it isn't enough to get the job done.

that your bias makes you ignore his positions. Everyone has admitted that their plans are similar so if you say he lacks substance you would have to admit Hillary does. This entire thing has been about personality differences and approach to tackling the problems. One is a fighter, one is more diplomatic. He worked for 8 years in his state senate and almost 4 in the U.S. Senate, I think that counts for something. He actually has more elected time in office than Hillary, but think what you will. Nobody can change your mind until you're ready to see him through a fairer light instead of assigning him the talking points the media and people have been feeding the masses for the last year, so I won't even try. I do hope you'll come around once he's the nominee, and learn more about him by seeking out information instead of just accepting the negative things said about him as gospel.

from a guy that says he is a blank screen he is a perfect fit

a passing fad

And I feel similarly.

I am not looking for an Amway salesman to run my country....

AMWAY. How funny! YOU NAILED IT.
If you have ever attended one of their group
meetings, it has the EXACT same feeling as
one of Obama's campaign stops.

HOPE is definitely involved in electing Barack.
HOPE that he can do the job. Talk about a crap shoot.

The country has NEVER been in worse shape than it is now.
And we're about to nominate a greenhorn. Oh well, at least
we can HOPE that he can make a difference. It seems like
every 4 years we are all HOPING someone, anyone can make a change.
I do believe, I do believe, I do believe, I do believe
I do believe, I do believe, I do believe, I do believe
I do believe, I do believe, I do believe, I do believe
I do believe, I do believe, I do believe, I do believe
I do believe, I do believe, I do believe, I do believe
I do believe, I do believe, I do believe, I do believe


Sigh.

Hillary Clinton dropping her g's in Indiana (workin for you) standing on the bed of a pickup truck while campaigning makes you think she has more 'gravitas' or is somehow more presidential? Look you like Hillary-I get that. However, I do not think Hillary appears presidential in the least.

Gravitas means sufficient seriousness of purpose, sufficient experience in the real world of politics at the national and international levels, and sufficient reputation that other leaders will take you seriously.

Shows you how much the AMERICAN PEOPLE
are AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR!!

We will vote on the CHANCE that he will be
better, because we KNOW that she ACQUIESCES!

Same goes for Edwards.

yes, Hillary's performance is very disappointing. What her supporters see in her is a mystery to me.

Relative to Obama, if that is what you get out of his campaign, you haven't been listening or paying attention.

n/t

that's not fund raising, that's a political party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5834804

I believe that my support of Obama is completely rational and I think it is silly to base my vote on vague notions of "gravitas."

McCain has been tested -- more than Obama, H. Clinton, B. Clinton and Al Gore combined -- and he'd be a piss poor President.

I'm voting for the candidate who has policies I like, who is intelligent and who I think has the best chance of winning. I like that he inspires people -- regardless of whether or not I'm inspired -- because I think it will help in that last criteria. I'm certainly not going to vote AGAINST him because I don't get it.

We've been down the empty-suit as leader path before.

We can't afford to there again.

You might want to cover that up before someone steps in it.

had a different experience I do not know.

sw

Obama's "oratory skils" and charisma - and hate the Clintons. Beyond that, and the cheap-suit folds.

I don't need to virtually orgasm every time I see the candidate to support them, you know? I mean, sometimes you get hit by the magic and it's awesome. I've seen that happen with other Obama supporters. And it's cool. It happened to me with Dean. I was fucking IN LOVE.

But I don't HAVE to have that to look at both (or all) of the candidates and decide who would be the best. You seem to be writing off Obama's appeal because you see it as a pyramid scheme or something. It's your way of discounting what he offers.

And that's fine. But I thought you might like to hear from someone who has never gotten all tingly and warm n' fuzzy when listening to Obama. I support him. I've sent his campaign money. I voted for him in my primary, then spent 7 hours caucusing for him that night and 18 hours caucusing for him the day of my district convention. I think he's a good speaker and a good leader and will be a great president.

But I don't and haven't ever felt the Big Tingle. And again, that's ok. I still support him because I know he's the right person for the job.

:hi:

winning the general election?

However, the choice was between him and Clinton to go up against McCain. I could see for myself how badly the right-wingers I know (I'm in Texas) were absolutely salivating with joy at the idea of a Clinton candidacy. A few told me that it would be like a gift from heaven. She's so polarizing, has so much baggage and this myth of her being "fully vetted" was nothing but a myth, as we saw with the Bosnia story, rubbing elbows with a union buster on the board of Wal-Mart, and lots of other issues that have come up during the primary. I swear to God, one particularly skeezy right winger I know (neighbor) was practically getting a hard-on at the idea of Clinton as the nominee against McCain. They knew their guy would breeze in and in the words of someone else I read, "Hillary would make Mondale look like a huge winner."

In my opinion, if we had nominated Clinton to go up against McCain, we might as well have gift wrapped the White House for him with a great big bow and a card that read "To the Republicans. Happy Everything. Love, The Democrats."

you're peppering your big, colorful fonts with clip-art? Seriously, are you posting this through your 14.4k modem via a timewarp to 1996?

Propaganda works, your post proves it. You have posted absolutely nothing that was not told to you by Clinton and the media. You have called every Obama supporter a fool for falling for a dream. Not only is your deduction not a deduction at all but it is an induction propagated in you by a mass media, hype, hope, and a politician. Which ironically you have painted everyone who disagrees with you as having done so.

In reality Obama has a broad spectrum appeal spanning a vast segment of the population including moderate republicans and independents. People of all colors of all economic scale. It is somewhat shameful for a democrat to fall into the meme repeating drivel we often accuse the right wing of since we often pride ourselves on a deeper understanding of cause and affect.

I have always felt that it is the willingness to look deeper that defines a democrat. Understanding even if that may be there is still a good segment of democrats who are here only to fit in.

As it is your post is yet just another Koolaide post with a few more words and some green letters.

I am just telling you how *I* see him.
As I have stated to other Obama supporters,
I hope your dream comes true. I really do.
But I won't hold my breath.

Our country is in the worst shape it's ever been
and I am not convinced Obama is the leader who
can make the difference. My gut tells me he is
a corporatist and will cater to the corporate
will.

Funny you should mention "propaganda" -- your
response to me is propaganda in its purest form...
In order to produce an emotional rather than rational
response to my post, you use every trick in the book
to inspire rage towards my words.

You lost

Deal

Surely you're not suggesting the "trial by fire" of Monica Lewinsky gives her the "gravitas" to be President?? :wtf:

If Hillary really has survived her "trails by fire", then why is her unfavorable ratings above 50%? She hasn't fought in the trenches (unless you count Bosnia). What has she accomplished that makes you believe that she can follow through? Look at the Healthcare disaster--she completely screwed up her attempt at it. Why should we believe that she will be able to do any better now? And look at how she ran her campaign. She had every single advantage, and yet she still lost to a relative unknown freshman senator.

an AOLer from 1996.