Obama is wrong about the gas tax

Obama is wrong about the gas tax

Think Clinton's plan to suspend the gas tax temporarily is a bad idea? A similar measure in Illinois -- which Obama backed -- seems to have helped consumers.

By George Frost



"I voted for it, and then six months later we took a look, and consumers had not benefited at all," Obama said. Having learned this hard economics lesson from his Illinois "mistake," Obama now argues that a federal tax holiday also will fail for the same reason -- the oil companies will take it all.

But Obama is wrong. He did not learn this lesson. In fact, the only scientific study done on the pass-through of the tax holiday savings to Illinois consumers (and those in Indiana, as well, whose citizens enjoyed a similar holiday) found that it actually worked to a large extent.

The study is titled "$2.00 Gas! Studying the Effects of a Gas Tax Moratorium," by Joseph J. Doyle Jr. and Krislert Samphantharak. Download the PDF http://www.nber.org/tmp/65433-w12266.pdf. The authors concluded that "the suspension of the 5% sales tax led to decreases in retail prices of 3% compared to neighboring states. And when the tax was reinstated, retail prices rose by roughly 4%."

This suggests that the tax holiday delivered at least 60 percent of the tax savings to motorists.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/05/06/gas_tax/index.html?source=rss&aim=/opinion/feature

That aside, a 60% benefit would reduce the savings to the consumer to about $24...over 15 weeks.

Let's see your math....your throwing out numbers but I don't see anything to back it up.

to pass Congress, let alone be signed into law by chimpy, needs their head examined. Ridiculous to think such a thing is even remotely possible.

defending the oil companies?

This is a perfect election year issue.

it's a vote against 'pointless' and 'disturbing' pandering, at least according to Clinton surrogates. I guess she should have sent out a pander-memo before going all in on this issue. :rofl:

P.S. It's hardly an election issue for the Presidency when the Dem nominee is against it and the Republican nominee is for it.

But the larger point is that ALL democrats should be supporting a windfall profits tax on the oil companies. Whether it passes or not isn't as important as using the issue itself against republicans.

Unfortunately, Obama liked the idea when it was politically advantageous for him, and now opposes it, so the Democrats won't be able to unite around this issue. It's a shame.

Nice try though. They both support an oil windfall profit tax. Both of them have said in the past that they would use it to support clean energy. Hillary however is spending that money twice (as Obama puts it) because she now wants to use it for the gas tax holiday. So instead of moving our country away from foreign oil dependence, she's actually encouraging more oil consumption and is providing legislation that will make the oil companies richer. Do you think that the oil companies are going to pass on the savings to consumers, especially when we are telling them that we are going after their profits anyway starting in 2009?

You need to rethink.

just in case she needs it today? :rofl:

Brace yourself. Please don't cry too much either. :rofl:

that was the most rushed piece of legislation I've ever heard of. Where are the economists backing her up to give her position more credence? She never even bothered to try to garner any support for her idea in Congress. She just submitted a bill knowing that she didn't have the votes on her side to get it passed. Sounds like she's just putting her name on a piece of legislation to claim that she made an effort.

Oh Nooz! The Obama’s are pandering to the uneducated Bubba’s & BHO gets stuck on REPEAT


Guess BHO did not quite have his new pander story memorized! I am sure it went better today.


…… Sitting on a picnic bench in a park on Pagoda Street, Indianapolis, in discussion with a group of 30 supporters, he told a story about the "modest" background of himself and his wife, Michelle.

And 10 minutes later, seemingly having forgotten, he told them it all again.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/01/barackobama.hillaryclinton


…….


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080501/pl_nm/usa_politics_obama_michelle_dc;_ylt=AlxkjSLtTnvb5QybY0ywS3fzj9AF


Obama's wife joins push to court working class

By Caren Bohan 1 hour, 54 minutes ago

INDIANAPOLIS (Reuters) - If Michelle Obama had her way, her husband Barack would be a teacher, a writer, a singer, a dancer -- anything but a politician with the chance to make history as the first black president of the United States.

The text of S.2971 has not yet been received from GPO

That's the bill, the Senate doesn't even have a copy of it yet...

And what if it passes, goes to the President, THEN WHAT??? Got a guess???? Do you remember George W VETO????

You cite a 60% actual benefit to consumers.

That means that the oil companies are getting the other 40%.

Of course most of the lemmings will not click through and see the fraud you put out.

1) The Salon article admits that it will not work unless elaborate legal mechanisms are also administered requiring special enforcement features that cannot be passed for this summer.

2) The Salon article also states

"Many -- including Clinton backer and economist Paul Krugman -- have questioned whether Clinton's proposed windfall profits tax would work: "In one pocket, out the other. So it's pointless, not evil, " says Krugman. "But it is pointless, and disappointing."

3) The paper it sites is an academic paper with highly sophisticated economic models that include factoring cross border purchases, changes in inventories and the sort. Its conclusions require a peer review process that would test it by trained economists. Hundreds of economists have joined in condemning the silly McCain/Clinton proposal.

What the paper does state as a fact is that substantial revenue is lost to the state

quote
When gasoline prices spike, governments are under some pressure to respond to
the volatility by cutting taxes. Illinois estimates that the state lost $157 million in tax
revenue , while Indiana estimates a loss of $46 million . One
question is how much of a reduction in retail prices did the tax suspension buy
unquote


So we have a known loss versus what benefit? First the paper establishes that there is "no long term effect"

"Third, while the short-run nature of the policy change does not inform long-run
effects"

4) And as you state according to their model - which is presented without peer review, they estimate that it would reduce prices by only 60% so that an 18 cent reduction would only result in a 10.8 cent reduction with the other 7.2 cents going where? To the oil company. This I would call a failure - and there maybe other technical faults in the modeling. Did they give enough values to the cross border purchase of gas by people from Indiana?

5) The more telling problem is your methodology. It reeks of the same intellectual dishonesty of the Bush's, Rather than use peer review scientific opinion they go 'opinion shopping'. They hire experts from the oil company to edit the papers from government experts in climate change.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:yourock:

The same one I keep asking those who make posts like this one. Do you "REALLY" believe that congress would pass a gas holiday, or that they would pass a bill to make big oil pay for that holiday by means of a windfall profits tax? And if by some miracle they did pass these bills, do you really think that Bush would sign them into law?

Obama's pandering $1,000 tax rebate?

he begins pulling troops out of Iraq and stops this stupid war spending - YES, YES, YES.

and that helps people NOW, how?

just "bluffing" you!

as the 12 fucking dollars we will save with the tax holiday only it doesn't reward the oil companies.

Why is that? Please be honest and answer them.

As for the rebate idea, no, not as long as Bush is in the whitehouse. Now it's your turn. Can I have an answer?

pass it. and you know that!

If the federal government removes the gas tax, state law said Tennessee's gas tax must increase to make up the difference. It's a move to save road construction dollars. This means Tennessee drivers would not see a difference at the pump.

I wonder how many other states have the loss of gas tax revenue covered this way?

Do you see this happening before, say 2010?

A bill that hasn't arrived in Congress yet, hasn't been seen by the Senators and Reps, hasn't gone to committee, hasn't gone up to vote, hasn't been signed into law by the BIG CHIMPANZEE in the White House.... this is going to happen WHEN? Do you have any idea how long it takes a bill to pass Congress and be signed into law? Do you really think Bush will sign it?

Did you go to High School and learn how Congress passes bills?

wants the same gas tax holiday...it actually has a good shot of passing in a bi-partisan form. If McCain jumps on the bill, the GOPers will back their nominee.

on big oil?

:rofl:

There is NO chance of a windfall profits tax passing this congress and even less of chimpy signing one. And as Krugman says without the windfall profits tax this tax vacation is a freakin' disaster.

You know, that involves reaching across the aisle like Obama touts as such a good thing. A bi-partisan bill would have to be hashed out on the details, but...if Hillary and McCain got together on it ...it would have a very good chance of passing.
I did not say it would pass with McCain's proposal alone...I said it would have a chance on a bi-partisan bill, which means both sides get together and hash out the details and come up with a bill that works for both of them.

As far as junior protecting the oil companies, well a bi-partisan bill, promoted by the GOP nominee who the president has endorsed...would stand a great chance of making it through. Unlike the Democrats, the GOP will almost totally and unconditionally support their nominee.

But, thanks anyway for the 'blindered' point of view.

that would work well for both sides. None. Zip. Nada. You either pass a windfall profits tax or you don't. And hillypoo hasn't even proposed legislation, the little liar. Repukes would filibuster any such tax. There isn't even a question about that. It's just hilly fantasyland to talk the way you are, but it is funny.

Hilly fantasyland...is that next door to Obama's Cracktopia Fun Park with free Limo rides?

proposal. Pathetic that having nothing you went to crack and Larry Sinclair. Not surprising though.

They can not not Police all the gas station Across this country.

Let say by some insane miracle this idea passes, all the ifs ands that Hillary and McCain (don't forget in this primary this was a Originally a republican Idea

So let's say it passes. HOW DO YOU KNOW THE GAS STATIONS WILL DROP THE PRICE???????????
Someone will get to keep the 18.5 cents but it will not be the consumer.

Hillary's plan has too many what ifs for this to happen by May 30th

What if, she gets the support in the senate
What if, the speaker of the house agrees to put this before the floor
What if, you pass a windfall profits tax
what if, Bush doesn't veto it, or say he does
What if, Congress overrides the veto, Has that happened in 7 years for anything?????

Hunch your neighbor, say Don't be stooooopid.
This is a joke to get simple minded people to believe Hillbilly "gets the poor"

And the windfall tax is a pipe dream.
Can you admit that?

Oh and another thing your girl has said the money taken from the windfall tax will go to alternative fuel research NOT THE ROAD TAX.

check your information!

..........Let say by some insane miracle this idea passes, all the ifs ands that Hillary and McCain (don't forget in this primary this was a Originally a republican Idea.......

"Originally a republican Idea......."

Originally means The origin of a thing??? the ORIGIN IS McCain
If you don't know what big words mean, it's no wonder you think this Plan to pander for votes is a good Idea.

Her plan would put 12,000 blue collar workers out of work in NC and IN. 300,000 nationwide. The very people she is campaigning for votes, will lose their jobs in NC and IN. Last I checked ROAD CONSTRUCTION IS A BLUE COLLAR JOB!

AND DON'T SAY WINDFALL TAX.
1. It will never get pass bush
2. she already said the money for the so-call wind fall tax would not go to road construction

Relating to why the Gas Tax Holiday, will not work.

Way to skate around the real issues, you make your candidate proud today.

But dear heart listen to the news in case you can't read MSM's words not mine
"Obama's supporters are educated, where as Hillary's main support is uneducated, low information voters"

Who really has come to this conversation with an intelligence challenge, things that make you go hmmmm.

And as far differentiating from McCain and Hillary, kinda hard to do considering how much she ACTs like a repuke at heart.

Now care to Argue the points I made about the "Gas Tax Holiday" being a complete political farce,
or would you prefer I continue to slaughter you with my brilliance?


"Hillary's plan has too many "what ifs" for this to happen by May 30th

What if, she gets the support in the senate
What if, the speaker of the house agrees to put this before the floor
What if, you pass a windfall profits tax
what if, Bush doesn't veto it, or say he does
What if, Congress overrides the veto, Has that happened in 7 years for anything?????"

after 9/11. Many gas stations showed extreme hikes in prices. What happened to those stations? Consumers became upset and reported them. In my area we had two stations that received fines because of the hikes.

I just doubt they would lower it from where it already is.

I read a financial article, that EXXON was complaining that even though they made a profit of 10 billion dollars, It was not fair because the prices in America are not keeping up with the actual demand. American gas is way cheaper than most countries. Europe pays $8 per gallon
some go as high as $18 per gallon.

The gas companies want more money out of us. 10 billion in Profits in 3 months, is just not enough for some reason

If a station refuses to lower the price and the public knows the price needs to be lowered...Believe me, calls will be made and letters will be written. Newspapers will be notified and emails will be sent to local television stations.

They will still be reported to various commissions, there will still be investigations. And small town folk (like myself) will get the word out against that station, convincing everyone they know to boycott the stations that refuse to lower prices.

They'll lower the prices or suffer the wrath of the public, at least in the smaller towns.

It does not have enough support from lawmakers
The speaker of the house will not put it on the floor as an issue.
There is not enough time to get it passed by the 30th of May
and
And Bush will never never never never tax his buds the oil companies.

So in the end this is just a horrible way to prostitute votes from people who are not getting all the information. I think it's an insult to people who are truly passionate about supporting Hillary. They have a candidate that's selfishly playing on their biggest desire, having more money in their pocket, with no way to make it happen, with this particular plan.

Venezuelans are paying roughly 12 cents a gallon. And the reason Europeans spend so much is because they are taxed like 200% or something (for renewable research, mass transit, road maintenance, etc).

The reason gas is going up and up for us is because the value of the Dollar is spiralling downward...

A case of 'do as I say', 'not as I do', from the hype that is Obama.

I don't know the answer to this, but it is a potentially important question in all this.

Indiana is in the process of privatizing a major highway.

Did the loss of revenue have anything to do with the economic pressures that Gov. Danial's used to justify this giveaway of public resources?

Just asking.

I do recall seeing many many signs against this sale around NW Indiana. The governor is not popular at all.

Being beat up upon by logic, reason, political and economic reality., It's a tough life !

idea.

But as far as credible economists, they seem unanimously against this dumb idea. But you keep believing it is a good one!

and btw, i've noticed that you respond to people as long as they have nothing intelligent to say, but everytime a user that YOU yourself engaged in conversation puts out something that you can't argue with, you go mysteriously silent and ignore the sub-thread. Makes it clear you have no interest in really understanding this issue, rather just being a parrot.

the point was and IS the gas tax holiday DID reduce the price of gas for the people of Indiana.

You guys ALWAYS miss the point in your effort to spin shit your way. You all kept saying Obama learned his lesson with the Indiana gas holiday....but it DID work because it reduced the price of gas for people.

my background in economics and the basic laws of supply and demand tell me what i need to know on this issue. My problem is with people trying to sell a bag of shit as a dozen roses.

and i apologize for the comments about not responding. I shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion.

I do have a life.

And there is nothing to answer because as usual the point was missed in the effort to spin it all to look good for Obama.

for most of us. :-)

Who'da thunk it! :kick:

Not least because the Illinois gas tax is far larger than the federal one: 39.5 cents per gallon for the state versus 18 cents for the federal. There is also the question about budget surpluses versus deficits at particular points in time: both states and federal budgets are hugely strapped at the moment, and infrastructure needs have never been higher.

Besides, the minimal savings to the consumer are not the issue: the overall effects on the price of gas, the profits of the oil industry, and the needs of the government to repair roads and bridges must be balanced out against an average paltry three-month savings to the consumer of $30.

Economists, left and right, have been universally unequivocal about this: the consumer would not gain in the end, and the nation would suffer.

But I suppose you know better.

of $30 (a half a tank of gas) after three months. Completely idiotic.

Bill

The biggest is that I'm afraid I don't believe that the gas companies won't just find a reason to increase the price to what it was before the moratorium. They have already seen the market will bear it, so they will just reduce supply so that the price point before the tax moratorium is hit. At the same time, demand will go up, this will also drive up prices. I'm also relativley certain that the extra tax imposed on the gas companies will be passed right along to all of us.

A gas tax holiday is all fine and dandy. But a person needs to think. Let's say you do a gas tax holiday and tell the oil companies to pay the tax themselves, where do you think the oil companies are going to come up with that money? Within a week, gas prices would jump up to offset (if not more) the tax the oil companies would be paying. The consumer will end up paying for the taxes the oil companies would during the gas tax holiday.

Then, you know what the problem would be? When the tax holiday ended, you'd have that tacked onto the jumped up gas price. Because the oil companies aren't going to bring down the price of gas....because by doing so, it would be obvious to everyone why they spiked the gas prices up (to offset the taxes they were paying during the gas tax holiday).

Simple math: The price of a gallon of gas is averaging $3.60. You take the gas tax off and it's $3.41. Within a week, the price of gas would jump up to $3.61. You'll be blindly paying for the oil companies tax for them. Then when the tax holiday ends, and you put the gas tax back on, then you're up to $3.80 per gallon. Now, after that, if the price of gas instantly dropped back down to $3.60, wouldn't you be able to figure out why? I know I would! So, that's why when the gas tax is put back on, they're not going to bring the price of gas down, because everyone will realize why gas prices were raised sharply in a short amount of time. So, after the tax holiday is done, we're going to be stuck with gas that's priced higher than it should be.

Here is what one of the co-authors of the study cited by Salon had to say about gas tax holidays:

Economists are "as close to unanimous as you can get" in viewing the proposal as a "horrible idea," said Joseph J. Doyle Jr., a Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist who has studied gas tax "holidays."
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-gastax2-2008may02,0,135723.story

financial security and financial ruin, and enough to offset the thousands of jobs LOST nationwide for road repair and maintenance that would have been paid out of those taxes? Forgive me if I don't buy into your enthusiasm.

and it's a no brainer that the summer Gas Tax Holiday is a horrible idea and nothing short of political pandering...undeniably so. If it's such a great idea, why hasn't she submitted draft legislation to get it done? The clock's a tickin', and summer is almost here.

the tax deal did`t mean shit....

holliday is a good idea because of 1 study.


Please leave the McCain/Clinton energy plan at the door.

didn't you.

You guys get so spinned up you almost always miss the point.

because your interpretation of teh Doyle/Samphantharak study is completely wrong. What they found is the following: only three percent of a five percent gas tax reduction passed through to consumers. The other 2 percent went into the pockets of the gas companies. And then, when the tax was reinstated, prices went up four percent -- in other words, the price after the tax was reinstated was higher than it was before the tax was suspended.

How do we know that gas tax "holidays" are a bad idea? Well, economists tell us so. WHich economists? Well, among others, Mr. Doyle, the co-author of the study you so mistakenly tout here.

See: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-gastax2-2008may02,0,135723.story

Economists are "as close to unanimous as you can get" in viewing the proposal as a "horrible idea," said Joseph J. Doyle Jr., a Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist who has studied gas tax "holidays."

and he has contributed to Hillary's campaign and his last few paragraphs in the article provide for particulars which would make the plan work which have not been proposed by Hillary.

There is no pending legislation introduced by Hillary that memorializes her plan and makes it real, it is just an idea, nothing concrete, no boundaries, no specifics -- just talk, just pandering.

You folks need to realize, a plan is just talk unless it is put into action, she is a senator, Memorial Day is just weeks away. She has to have specific legislation written (or write it herself) that contains the details of her plan, she has to introduce it and get support for it in the senate. To do nothing but talk is just pandering.

:rofl:

Try reading that article.

sounds like the motorists ended up paying even MORE money for gas once that holiday expired. Borrowing your own money 3 months from now. Plus the damage done to the infrastructure needs to be factored in.

Also, don't forget that the oil companies know that we're going after their profits starting in 2009. You don't think that they're going to squeeze every penny out now before any windfall profit tax is enacted?

A five percent tax was suspended and the price at the pump dropped 3 percent -- meanining that two percent that was going into the tax coffers went into the pockets of the gas companies. And that tax revenue evenutally had to be made up, meaning the consumer ended up paying it anyway.

And then, to top it off, the price went up 4 percent after the 5 percent tax was reinsted, meaning that the consumer was paying more after the tax was reinstated than he/she was paying before it was suspended and... the gas company still was holding onto more than they had before.

Its as dumb an idea as you can get.

Joseph J. Doyle Jr., the author of the study cited in the OP.

h/t onenote

and what the average voter out there thinks.

There is no changing that the average voter thinks a gas tax holiday is a good thing, no matter the benefit, no matter what the economist's say, no matter what the spin doctors say.

Get away from DU, and ask the average voter...I heard more than 20 people today alone so far, wonder why the gas tax holiday is not supported by the politicians (their words, not mine). And when you try to explain anything about it, they glaze over and move on to someone else that has a like PERCEPTION to talk about the shitheel politicians who support the big oil companies and won't give an effing tax holiday to the regular guy...no matter how small it is, no matter whom or how it benefits.

They don't care that is may only be $30 bucks to them, what they care about is that last week they saw big oil have record profits AGAIN...on the backs of the regular guy. What they see is a war that many of them feel is being fought over oil/gas. What they WANT to hear is that a politician supports THEM...not big oil or OPEC. That a politician will go to the boards, ONE TIME, for them.

Perception.

Obama's rhetoric (and thus that of his supporters) ignores the effect of the tax everywhere in the economy.

is ignoring those things as well?

I'm sorry but does anyone else find it hilarious that some Lieberwoman supporters throw out the cult meme from time to time, with apparently no sense of irony? I mean here she is coming out with a blatantly terrible idea that everybody agrees would accomplish nothing good, and would in fact hurt the country. Yet here are her supporters defending it like she just brought peace to the Middle East.

Lieberwoman supporters need to take their blinders off NOW. This a dumb idea. Let me repeat, THIS IS A DUMB IDEA.

What is wrong with you people? If it was only McCain that proposed this we would all be calling him a reckless and dangerous panderer who is clearly more concerned with getting a few votes than the actual well-being of the American people. WAKE UP!

5/5/2008
New Ad: Under Hillary’s Plan, Oil Companies Would Pay Gas Tax - Not Drivers
Without a plan of his own, Obama launches misleading attacks

As the price of oil passed $120 a barrel today, the Clinton Campaign launched a new ad in Indiana and North Carolina outlining Hillary’s plan to suspend the gas tax for American drivers this summer, paid for by a windfall profits tax on big oil companies and their record earnings.

The 30-second spot, entitled "What’s Happened" notes that Sen. Obama has launched misleading attacks about Hillary’s plan because he has no solution of his own to lower gas prices for American consumers. By forcing oil companies to pay the gas tax, Hillary’s plan would save motorists about $8 billion.

Watch the ad here.

Following is the script for the ad.

"WHAT’S HAPPENED"
TV :30

: What has happened to Barack Obama?

Woman: Right now we are living paycheck to paycheck.

: He is attacking Hillary’s plan to give you a break on gas prices because he doesn’t have one.

Man: The price of gas is going up.

Woman: It’s hard to fill up the tank.

: Hillary wants the oil companies to pay for the gas tax this summer - so you don’t have to.

: Barack Obama wants you to keep paying; $8 billion in all. Hillary is the one who gets it.

Man: Hillary Clinton is the candidate that is going to fight for working people.

I am Hillary Clinton and I approve this message.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7512

Most economists see no benefit in the gas tax holiday.

Then why not strip the tax away all together?

Or both.

Down 3%
Up 4%

Stations were willing to pass along 60% of the cut in price. While at the end of the holiday, they reinstated 80% of the increase.

So Obama is right. The holiday made things worse, not better.

His flippancy about trying to save people some money when we are IN CRISIS is offensive and ,yes, elitist.

My son is very worried as he watches the gas prices climb. All summer he has to drive further, to both a job and school. His care doesn't get good mileage and he can't afford a new one. It is now costing him 45.00 to fill his tank. FORTY FIVE DOLLARS.

Ask him what 40.00 per week savings means for him.

Ask him if he thinks it's a 'gimmick'.


Hillary has a long term plan (incl. investigating windfall profits), in the meantime this is help she offers, and will have the oil companies pay for it. She was the first to propose a detailed plan for switching to green jobs and energy.


What's he going to do for my son this summer? NOTHING.

I am sure Bush is on it as we speak! :banghead:

For the gas tax "holiday" to give someone $40/week in savings, they would have to be purchasing 217.4 gallons of gas every week. Assuming your son has a shitty gas guzzing vehicle that gets only 20 mpg, that would mean he is driving 4348 miles every week, or more than 621 miles every day, seven days a week. And assuming that he is able average 60 mph while driving this gas guzzling 20 mpg vehicle 621 miles a day, he is spending over 10 hours a day in his car, seven days a week.

BULLSHIT.

Thats 2666 miles per week. 380 per day.

it would be tough to lift the federal gasoline tax this summer as she has proposed because of a likely veto from President George W Bush....

It's to bad she got peoples hopes up...I feel sorry for your son...we ae all in a world of hurt thanks to Bush...Indonesia which is part of OPEC is is considering quitting the cartel because the country has become a net oil importer, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono said Tuesday. "Indonesia at this stage is no longer an oil exporter,"

Here is a country that has oil but not enough...and because OPEC is not increaing production to keep the prices high. Indonesia is haveing to buy oil.......

You can hide it in fact all you want but oil companies won't show their wares out in the open. Oil is slick isn't it?

How could they have any impact on the gas tax or gas prices THIS SUMMER, since W is the current President?

The whole discussion is baseless and moot.

Oh, it's going to be linked to a windfall tax on oil companies profits. Right. You know oil hit $120/bl yesterday? There's about 20 gallons of gas in a barrel of oil after it's been through the refining process. That actually suggests we might be heading towards $6/gallon gas. The oil companies are not going to have a problem saying that they need to jack up the prices at the pump.

and she's already gotten whatever benefit she could from having made the proposal. I doubt she learned anything new in the last 24 - 48 hours about why it would or wouldn't work, so I'll go with the conclusion that she knew damn good and well from the beginning that it wasn't going to happen and she jumped on it as a way to garner a few votes.

And that's called???

I should have clicked on response to original post and just clicked on reply by mistake!

national average in about a week.