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Per Todd the numbers expert: Obama can seat FL and MI as is..and Hill still can't catch him..

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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:55 AM
Original message
Per Todd the numbers expert: Obama can seat FL and MI as is..and Hill still can't catch him..
Edited on Wed May-07-08 06:55 AM by Doityourself
It's over people..Hillary is done in this primary.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:56 AM
Original message
Seat them then.
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's not his call..solely and you know it.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. And it still wouldn't be fair to the states that played by the rules
There has to be a penalty of some kind at least. Seat them as is then cut it in half, keep popular vote the same.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Maybe saying, even though MI and FL got away with it
that if another state tries this, they will be punished? But isn't the reason for not punishing MI and FL because they are saying it is not fair to the voters?
Then can someone tell me what will then prevent another state from doing the same thing if all you have to say is it is not fair to the voters?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. exactly. this argument doesn't make sense to me. i have tried to look
at it from the hillary side and it doesn't work. i have always been good at fair and just.... my one and only talent, lol. and no rationing will allow me to pun it n dean and certainly not obama.

the people that made the choice to run early are the culprits. they lost those people their votes. dean cannot renege. i dont know how he could. this has to stand.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. if this is true - Dean is passing up a great opportunity to get beyond this mess
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Actually no
If they would make a difference not seating them could be seen as bad because then they would hove no voice (even though they broke the rules. But if they dont make a difference and you still let them break the rules then letting them sit basically says we have no rules do what ever you want and their will be even worse chaos in future primary seasons..
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. "they" did not break the rules - the state leaders did
punish them - but seat the delegates and let the voice of the voters count.

THAT is what the charter of the party states - all party voters have an equal say in the selection of a candidate.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. Who elected the state leaders...
Edited on Wed May-07-08 09:51 AM by DadOf2LittleAngels
BTW That charter statement is so far from true is not even funny. You don know districts are weighted by democratic turnout in the previous election no? You do know there are super delegates no?
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. well, let me quote
"The Democratic Party of the United States of America shall . . . Section 4. Establish standards and rules of procedure to afford all members of the Democratic Party full, timely, and equal opportunities to participate in decisions concerning the selection of candidates . . . "

So where was my previous statement "so far from true"?????
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Did not say yours was I said that there are other
practices that break that principle which dont involve states that break rules..
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. and guess what - the state leaders, at no time during their campaigns
state they would be at odds with the equally-power-hungry DNC regarding primary dates. So I guess you are faulting the Florida voters for their lack of "foresight".

And yes - I do know there are SDs. All I am saying is that the members of the party are to have an equal say in the selection. That DOES NOT deny the existance of SDs. Now does it?
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Hmmm Supres done deny equal selection among members..
Some animals more equal than others? How many regular folk equal 1 super delegate?
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. SDs are another issue - one I find extremely elitist.
My point is that you and I and the rest of the regular voters are to have an equal voice in delegate selection - state differences aside.

These delegates are then combined with the SDs.

I did not mean to imply my vote should carry the same weight as a SD - only the same weight as any other D voter. That is what the Charter clearly states.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Thats not even true..
Edited on Wed May-07-08 11:16 AM by DadOf2LittleAngels
Many states (could be all but I wont make that generalization) weigh the number of delegates per district by the turnout of democrats in the last presidential election *not* the population (or even population of democrats). So again the carter is functionally bunk let alone for those who break the rules (after being warned)

Many have open primaries which means even less representation for democrat from state A vs state B
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. I reread your original statement - and I agree with you
sorry for my confusion!
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think that was the plan all along.
I think Florida should be seated as is. I don't know about Michigan. Maybe a split.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. he said on daily show he would seat them, ... vote just not count??? so
dont know how he is going to do it.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. Credentials committee meets in late May I think?
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Rules & Bylaws meets at the end of May to hear the FL challenges
Credentials Committee won't be empowered until the first of July.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. i am so disappointed, though, in hillary and her supporters putting this mess on obama
who had nothing ot do with it and contaminate these two states in the process so during the election the likelihood of their support is greatly damaged. i think this is the worst that group has done yet to cause damage to democrats and our win.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I would expect to see a lot of Sen Obama this summer in FL to make
up for lack of seeing him during the primaries.. John McCain is Cris- crossing the state. It'd be nice to see some of those speaches down here. May stir something.. All we have are snippets and junk M$M analysis. Hope he doesn't write he state off just because they say he can't win.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Barack Obama had "nothing to do" with the primary vote in Mich. for President???
Edited on Wed May-07-08 08:51 AM by Romulox
He didn't remove his name from the ballot? He didn't block a revote?

Hoookaaay. :eyes:
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. so?
it was clear that vote wouldnt count. a huge so?

this is what i am talking about. reason is ignored in order to create an unfair and unjust purpose of trashing obama. out of ALL the participants with florida and michigan, obama was not the decision maker.

he is NOT responsible for what happened in these two states

i am into people being responsible for their actions. and this really bothers me in shifting blame inappropriately, like anything else. it is wrong.
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DMorgan Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Agree 100% Hillary supporters blame Obama ...........
For everything wrong in their world. SO Irrational !!
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. Barack Obama is responsible for *his own* actions, which include blocking a revote in Michigan
"i am into people being responsible for their actions."

Then BO is responsible for removing his own name from the ballot, blocking the revote (through his surrogates like Tupac Hunter,) and attempting to run out the clock on any attempt to rectify the situation.

He doesn't get a pass on all of the above (responsibility for HIS OWN actions...) because others are also at fault.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. were the people told their vote didnt count? from that point on....
all argument is nell. when told the vote doesnt count.... all actions after are refected from that FACT. all actions play off the vote doesnt count.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. All argument is nell???
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. nil... but thank you for playing
rollin eyes....
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Neither is correct. Anyhow, I was trying to lighten the mood. :)
Edited on Wed May-07-08 09:29 AM by Romulox
Nell Carter was hilarious (rest her soul.)

You may want to say "All argument is null," but even that doesn't make a lot of sense.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. nil
nothing; naught

webster

and i can do humor. thought you were being an ass. lol wink
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mamalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. thanks:)
Your picture made me laugh... Nell was awesome wasn't she?

and as an aside, you gotta love that "blush"
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
9. That's good to hear. I trust Dr. Dean and committee to do what is right.
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GihrenZabi Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Bump this all day
This message needs to get out there to everyone a.s.a.p., to pressure Hillary to get out now, even with upcoming primaries she is expected to win.

Even if you seat Florida and Michigan AS IS (which won't happen) Obama still has a 100-delegate lead and a 150,000 popular vote lead.

It's over.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
woot
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Don't do it Obama! It would be easier for HRC to STEAL the Nomination if it gets CLOSER! eom
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DMorgan Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. It's NOT up to Obama right now, it's up to the folks who made the rules.
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
19. Call Dean - DNC direct Phone Number 202-863-8000 (A real person answers the phone)
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DMorgan Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Call him, why?
What's a phone call going to do?
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. why? getting them seated and letting the last primaries run out would let her bow out gracefully &
heal the party to a great degree.

They should be seated.
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
30. I've been saying that for 2 weeks
Since PA, it became clear that barring a complete implosion, Obama would maintain his delegate lead even if they seated Florida and seated Michigan 70-30 for Clinton. I think he should come out right now and say we should seat Florida and propose a compromise for Michigan (maybe a 55-45 or even 60-40 split) and take any clouds about his legitimacy off the table.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. Obama will have a tainted nomination win without Florida and Michigan.
They should be seated with Obama getting a share of the uncommitted in Michigan based on the pollsters averages between him and Edwards and the others.
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TheDudeAbides Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
35. Seating FL/MI as is does not give Obama win either
Revote is only way to decide this without Superdelegates stepping in.

-----
"again again" - Tinky Winky
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