To DU In The Coming Times

Well, I knew the rumors that were circulating in GD: P last night that Clinton was canceling her appearances for today as a prelude to conceding had to be wrong...and they were. I knew that even though it was 1:30 am and I was really tired and my eyeballs were starting to get that way they get when you've been staring at a computer screen for too long. And as I sat there thinking, "There's no way," I also thought to myself, "Why the @#$! are you up at 1:30 a.m. on a weeknight when you know damn well that PJ will have you out of bed at 6:30 am the next morning?"

Well, I guess I was hoping that if I stayed up late enough I would see that one message that announced that it was finally over. Even though I knew it wasn't going to be.

Last time I posted about how badly I wanted it to be over, the thread was swarmed by Clinton boosters accusing me of being anti-democratic and not wanting to let the "peasants" vote. I assume they will be back on this thread accusing me of wanting to disenfranchise West Virginia, Oregon, and Kentucky. All I can say is look, I lived in Indiana until last May, and it always pissed me off that the primary was too late to make a difference. The fact that the 48 states who aren't Iowa or New Hampshire have actually gotten a chance to affect the outcome is something positive that has come out of this very long ordeal. Of course, most of those states didn't get the chance to vote for Edwards--who dropped out of the race a couple days before my state's primary, dangit--or most of the other candidates on the slate, so it's something of a mixed blessing.

Nevertheless, I REALLY want this to be over. And thinking about why that is, I realized it's not just about the Democratic Party or about not damaging the eventual nominee or about seeing one candidate win or seeing the other one lose. It's partly about DU. I've been at DU since 2001 and as a community it has become tremendously important to me. And I really want the Democratic nominee to win the 2008 election; but I also really want DU to be OK.

Since Tuesday night there appears to be a shift in progress toward reconciliation and moving on to focus on the general election. I am really glad to see that, and I guess to do my bit to assist it, I want to offer the following suggestions about how to get past all this:

1. Please consider NOT dancing on the losing candidate's political grave. Although this contest has inspired all the passion, anger, schadenfreude, and, yes, bitterness of a general election, the difference is that after it's over we all have to work together. The less gloating, taunting, and yelling of "BOO-YEAH!" there is, the easier that's gonna be.

2. It always seems to each of us that in any conflict we might get involved in, *we* are the rational, reasonable, and temperate ones and the assholes are all on the other side. But there's probably been at least one time in the past few months that each of us has been wrong about that. You will probably never know exactly where or when it was that you became That Asshole, because human nature hides the assholity of our own conduct from us. But still, nobody is always right, and to move forward we're all going to have to be willing to think about when and how we might have been wrong. I'm thinking about it right now!

3. Consider the possibility that that Clinton or Obama supporter who's been acting so despicably all these months and dragging your candidate through the mud and calling you names and shitting all over your threads and generally behaving like a right-wing troll...might actually *be* a right-wing troll. Hard as it is to believe, there is a significant number of people out there who have nothing better to do with their time than come over here and stir up shit just for the sake of stirring up shit. It therefore doesn't make too much sense to judge a candidate based on what their self-identified DU partisans do in GD: P, since you don't really know who these people are. (Post count is a semi-reliable guide to troll detection but it is not foolproof. Some of these trolls are really, really obsessed.)

4. Whenever you find yourself wondering how the supporters of the other candidate can be so utterly deluded, remember this: objectivity requires distance and activism requires commitment. It's easy enough to see someone's flaws when you haven't devoted your entire waking life to campaigning for that person. The harder you are fighting for your candidate the less likely it is that your view of that candidate is clear-eyed and accurate. Understand that some of the stuff that is pissing you off when it comes from the other side is born out of the same kind of passionate commitment that you feel for your candidate. That passion is actually the one thing that most of us share, and it is what will eventually unite us; and it's good that we all have that passion, because that's what's going to win us the general election. Try to respect that passion, even when it lives in people who have been bugging the crap out of you. If we were all practicing lofty detachment, neither candidate would have any money or an organization.

5. It is not over; but it will end at some point. Start getting ready for that moment now. It'll cheer you up, and accelerate the process of reconciliation.

To those of you who have only signed up recently, let me say: DU has been a wonderful community for me and for thousands of other DUers who have helped each other survive the disaster that has been the American twenty-first century. If you are in fact a right-wing troll or a paid hack who has been cynically exploiting DU and/or abusing the goodwill of its members, well, I wish you a safe and speedy trip back to where you came from. If you are not, then stick around, because DU really is worth it. There will always be some acrimony, some conflict, and some craziness. But it is not normally like this. I hope we're already on the road to better times here. I love DU, and I really look forward to seeing it get back to its old self again.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

There is still much to be done to deal with the damage to this country from the neo-cons and the Shrub administration, and this is a valuable alternative media and activist source. Or it can continue to be.

(Pardon my list-addition presumptiveness.)

Bush has not become any less of a disaster while all this has been going on, nor has climate change slowed down. And what is this with Bush telling India and China they need to eat less so Americans can continue to eat way more than is good for them? WTF?

:wtf:, I say!

The Plaid Adder

is too arrogant to bend - so I am focusing on down ticket races and putting no energy or money in the presidential race.

Obama is another arrogant Starbucks crowd chosen loser - and while I'll vote for him, I really see little reason - there are new comments by his TV supporters saying again that the Obama promises are "campaign promises we should not expect to happen" - so unless Hillary is on the ticket there is near zero motivation.

Indeed I expect Hillary to give 100% of herself to electing Obama and to telling her supporters to support him - but if she is not on the ticket - screw it.

I'm thinking now I shouldn't but the fact that you're name calling our nominee and painting him with a Republican brush says a lot about you. Not to mention C&Ping this all over the boards...

Makes me very curious about you.

Rp

Oh, how much I agree!

This is a wonderful website, and I too am looking forward to it's getting back to its saner self!

Please, let the primary wars be over soon...

Thank you for your level-headed assessment!

K&R

:patriot:

KandR

:kick:

Thinkin' that it had been a while since I'd seen a post from you.

And lo and behold! here's one!

And a great one it is.

Thank you. I particularly want to echo your suggestion #1 for restraint in "dancing on the losing candidate's grave." All of us here can afford to be kind and respectful to losers of this hard-fought race. Each candidate had strengths and weaknesses and - I mean ... REALLY! these are candidates for the PRESIDENCY OF THE UNITED STATES for heavens sake! Even the losing candidates deserve our respect for putting themselves out there in ways none of us would ever do, taking the heat, enduring the process and speaking out about their vision of America.

Please, folks, put yourself in the other's shoes and be kind. More than anything, that's what America (and all of us here at DU) needs.

You were one of the people whose posts kept me coming back to DU after 2004. You are one of the ones that will keep me coming back, if only to lurk.

her campaign stops agitating and causing anger in my state. And if the Democrats here stop the lawsuits.

They keep picking the scabs when many of us here want people just to tell the truth about our state.

K&R for a very quotable phrase - I'll try to use it in conversation at least twice tomorrow!

And of course I agree with everything you say, and feel about the same. Thanks.

Good times ahead, and we've got 'em coming.

Kindness will foster a clear focus on the road ahead, and the numbers ready to walk that road are at historic levels.

I remain convinced that we all want the best, primary partisanship aside; and I think we'll size up the Democratic candidate vs. the Republican candidate in due course.

:kick:

...when we were all committed to the reason DU was created in the first place.

Now, I'm just counting down the days until Skinner announces the "presumptive nominee" -- and then I sign off for good. (Enjoy, Obama supporters, enjoy.)

This is not your 2001 DU. That DU is a relic from the era in which Al Gore invented the Internet. You know it as well as I do, PA.

Or, as the old saying goes: "You can't go home again."

:hug:

and have seriously considered ending it. Your post inspires hope.

Allow me to add a thought.

Before you fire up the way back machine and dredge up some particularly appalling post that one of your fellow DUers made in the heat of battle, remember this; hindsight is twenty/twenty. While Plaid is right that many of the more inappropriate posters were in fact right wing trolls, some of the incendiary posts were made by people who were just as passionate about their viewpoint as you were, they just allowed that passion to get carried away. Not to say this is in any way justification for uncivil posting, but rather if we have any hope of taking what I believe will be a Democrat victory in the GE, and turning that into a new course for this country, we will need to move beyond the unpleasantness of this primary and be the guiding voices of reason.

However, if you can't forgive, at least forget for a while. Remember that some of the most bitter opponents here during the primary were recommending and kicking each others posts a year ago when we were just focused on exposing the evil that is the current regime.

Just my two cents, now on to the GE!

edited for grammer

And I'm cooking on an essay about how AWESOME this campaign has been for America and the Dems.

Think about it.

1. When was the last time you can remember so many people, so many usual non-voters, so many new voters, so many Black and Hispanic voters whose absence from the polls tends to directly affect their lives, almost always to their deficit, with much more immediacy than in other blocs of voters.

That right there is a coalition, shades of what Bobby Kennedy and later George McGovern were trying to pull together. Bobby had it, and maybe they laid him low exactly because he had it. McGovern tried, and did really well considering what he was up against in his own party. The party powers (explained by Hunter Thompson as "the Meany, Daley, Humphrey axis") fought him tooth and nail all the way to the convention, where he scrambled their eggs using the new convention rules he had written with his own hand after the '68 debacle (at the behest of M-D-H, ironically enough).

The Bobby/George (sorta Teddy) coalition still exists, and pretty much has to deal with the same shit their predecessors went through 36 years ago: shitass war, bastard president, fucked economy, contempt and violence from cops (less so now, but a groom did just take a pound of lead to his grave from four shooter cops who were declared guiltless...just sayin') and a general sense that rules don't apply to the political leadership, and the whole promise behind the idea of America looked a lot like some campy bullshit from the 50's. Thus began the 70s.

And:

2. I just LOVE that all these back-of-the-list states get a chance to decide the fate of the planet. Seriously. Remember last time in '04, all the bitching about so many states not getting to be involved after Super Tuesday. Well, be careful what you wish for. But it's magnificent. Give a citizen a shoven, tell them their digging will really make a difference and means they are totally involved, and they'll dig deep enough to be stopped by granite bedrock.

Indiana changed history. NC did, too. West Virginia is next up to be the center of the world, then Kentucky and Oregon...and the last to come are Montana, South Dakota...and Puerto freakin' Rico. I don't think that island has ever swung electoral weight. Now it does. All of them bursting with Democratic voter interest, they're in this thing for real, they have two prime super-sharp rumble-ready yet historically distinctive candidates to follow. State after state has reported primary voters making choices in the booth, beause they couldn't decide between this pair of ass-kickers, and when our voters are charged up to vote like they have been since February, when turnout and new voters skyrocket, we always always always win.

If this swings right in November, that enthusiasm might take root and stay a while...another midterm, a re-elected president...etc...

Democracy will be better for this campaign. I am grateful to Senator Clinton for staying in this long, though she is not my choice. Her staying in has given millions of Americans a piece of the best part of this national idea, which many had lost long ago in resigned surrender to the fact of their electoral irrelevance. She gave them back their participation and truest way to be a patriot actively involved to move things towards that better possibility we all know can be attained.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that very ballot-borne blessing to voters, real involvement creating genuine influence, is maybe some part of the unspoken iron that has kept her on that bastard road. If so, she has done an amazing service to the country. If it is merely a consequence shaped by other motives, and not even a hidden idea anywhere in the campaign braintrust, well, it happened anyway, and she's pretty awesome for it, even by accident.

When Black voters turn out in monolitic numbers in every state (which they would most likely do for either candidate), it will checkmate the bloc of GOP base voters. Young voters, new voters, pissed Democrats, independents who want to shake shit up, and a large majority of erstwhile Clinton voters despite the volume of "no way" threats should Obama win through. They'll vote, most of them...and if only half vote, the slack will be picked up by a lot of folks on the Left who don't want McCain, and who see the larger social and historical context involved in a Black man becoming president.

It cannot be avoided, and if it is achieved, we will be just a little bit better as a nation for it. Ditto on many equally important yet different social/historical levels if Clinton wins through. The descendants of less equal Americans whose lineage has ancestors who lived fettered and powerless, literally and figuratively. Society, religious fundamentalism and black-letter law saw them as dumb beasts unfit to occupy the same space as decent people, or as petticoated chattel denied books and education and doomed to the empty existence of an inanimate decoration who could breed, had no legal defense against abuse, and usually kept quiet. Women have enjoyed the right to vote for less than 100 years, Black people less than 50, generally speaking. Think about that, and then consider those two again.

Yeah, this is good shit. This is big.

And when all that enthusiasm gets released come November (having been bottled since the primary vote they cast which shool the pillars of the Earth), when Black voters and young voters and independents combine with that large swath of Dem voters from our base (union members, teachers, smart people who don't resent paying taxes because they like roads and schools and garbage getting piked up and stuff) combine with the activist base who ALWAYS love to vote ;)

...I do believe...

...we're gonna blow the fucking doors off McCain's bullshit bus tour. And pick up Senate seats, and House seats.

No promises, no sure thing, anything can happen and we're up against ghouls in blue suits who have power beyond reason or the protection of law.

But whn voters care, they can stand up next to a mountain and chop it down with the edge of their hand.

Thanks, Hillary. Thanks, Barack. Try to see if you can keep it going through these last states. Montana deserves it after dumping Conrad Burns in '06, and we bomb Puerto Rico with radioactive cannonfire in practice for war, so those voters deserve to swing the bat for real contact.

Behold this slightly improved democracy, new voters, psyched voters, and a hard choice between candidates.

History made no matter what.

Love it.

:hug:

But you have said it oh, so well. Post of the week. Should stand on its own. I agree with you. I thank both candidates for the hard work and making this Primary cycle possible.

"Without struggle, there is no victory. Without pain, there is no joy." ?

That is so right on.

Then the Bush Administration must be a complete joy factory. :sarcasm:

Raebrek!!!

The real fear is that this championship in the Democratic League will leave us without a viable contestant against the Republican League such that the Political SuperBowl will be lost.

I guess it all depends on how dirty and vicious one decides is proper play. Fuck penalties and rules, let's just brawl in the mud and blood and beer. Finding consensus among such contestants after the "contest" is a large expectation. I don't have a gang mentality, I really loved the violence of a good old brawl, but I'm older now and expect "civil participation" to have different standards--I guess that's where I'm screwn.

I wish us well in the days ahead.

NoFederales

Posts like the ones from Plaid Adder and WilliamPitt are inspirational and remind me of the tone that was around DU when I started lurking here years ago.

Since "if your not part of the solution, you're part of the problem", I'm done just lurking. Thanks DU, I almost gave up even lurking here a few months ago.

Now I just have to come up with something intelligent and relevant. Could be a few more years...

I too lurked for years. A new reasoned voice is always welcome.
Now just another couple dozen posts and you can add an R to your K...

:hi:

:hi:

When I see a post with Plaid Adder on it I click on it pretty much automatically. I'm rarely sorry to have done so, and this time is no exception.

Namaste.

:applause: :applause:

I've never liked Clinton. Really disgusted with some of her supporters here. But imagine if it was the other way around. That's all: just imagine it. Then post your comment.

and thanks for another of your thoughtful posts

:thumbsup:

Well said, Plaid Adder. I've tried to stay out of the sniping, partly because my first choice, Bill Richardson, dropped out of the race too early to make a difference. My support for Senator Obama didn't solidify until his speech on race.

Health, happiness and prosperity to you and your family. K&R

You've been an island these past 8 years. Thank you for thinking and writing.

:thumbsup: :grouphug: :headbang: :yourock: :applause:

Thanks for the considerate post.

I hope it ends as soon as possible -- unless it can continue in a civil manner.

"You will probably never know exactly where or when it was that you became That Asshole..."

Signed, That Asshole

:yourock:

Great post!

I hope everyone in this forum reads & understands the vital truth in that paragraph.
:yourock:

K&R

keep it kicked!

:kick:

Even if it isn't quite the DU it was in 2006 during its contentious run up.

It was crazy in 2004 too, and we recovered.

Now that we are getting down to the nitty gritty of crumbling the Right Wing Manure Spreader into something that can be buried in a No 10 Manila envelope, I believe we will heal...

For the good of all of us.

K&R this.

Then, it's straight back to my happy place. :)

:thumbsup:

Just like all families, our Democratic Party family goes through some rough times and this is surely one, but the rough time our national family and our global family are going through in our name, with our money is far worse. Because I beieve we recognize that, we will come back together stronger than before.

God is in His Heaven and all is right with the world, for a bit. So good to see you guys.

Now, if Zombywoof would just appear for a series of group hugs...

:yourock:

Great posts and I really hope this place gets back to normal. I would love to another DU meetup in Washington, DC for the inauguration. That would be a blast.

When I see a post with Plaid Adder on it I click on it pretty much automatically. I'm rarely sorry to have done so, and this time is no exception.

Namaste.

m t

You've heard the Adder and the bottomless pitt preach to you about kissing and making up. There'll be lots more of such stuff in the weeks and months ahead.

Be strong, instead.

Stand up for your principles and refuse to kowtow. The corporate party leadership and its tiresome hangers-on believe you've had enough of thinking for yourself. They believe you should be satisfied with the little ceremonial dance of the primaries. And now they expect you to shut up and do as they say, even if it means complete reversals and betrayals of what you thought you were fighting for all along.

One word: don't.

You know Bushism is wrong, whether practiced by Republicans or Democrats. You hate it, and you are right to oppose those in the party who advocate soul-destroying, future-sacrificing compromise as a way to amass power for power's sake.

Fuck 'em. Stand, instead, for what you believe in.

If you want change, you'll have to fight for it. You'll have to put your own party's feet to the fire. And you can start by questioning those who preach a sentimental and self-defeating "unity," "reconciliation," and the other blather of surrender.

Yes, it's a fight, my friends. Occasionally, it's a fight against allies, too.

You are one of the best of the best on DU!

Without you, Nance Greggs, Will Pitt, Skinner and more too numerous to mention many of us would have given up on DU.

But the sense that you have posted seems to keep those of us who have been here since the beginning focused on the goal of getting progressives back into government and getting this country on the right track again.

Thanks again.

kick

There are lots of reasons that the primary is not "over":

1.) No super delegates have voted, and they can change even if committed as we've seen.
2.) FL and Michigan aren't settled, and there may be a court case that affects the convention
3.) etc,

What is MOST important is that it won't "be over" until there is a Democrat in the White House, the US is out of Iraq, we have universal health care, public education for all available, and there is legal control over the thieves in our economy.

Personally, I'm in the fight for the long haul. I didn't think it was over when I protested the Vietnam draft and voted for Jimmy Carter.

In this particular election, the real enemy is not the other Democratic candidates (no matter who your favorite happens to be). The primary process is the beginning of the real battle for a fair election and to fix the damage that the neocons have wrecked on this country.