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Neither Obama nor Hillary have ever faced real electoral opposition before.

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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:30 AM
Original message
Neither Obama nor Hillary have ever faced real electoral opposition before.
Edited on Thu May-08-08 10:49 AM by Deep13
My wife mentioned this to me yesterday. If Guilliani had not dropped out because of prostate cancer, he would be in the Senate today and not Hillary Clinton. If Jack Ryan had not quit because of a sex scandal, he rather than Obama would be the Senator from Illinois.

I hope this primary has given probably Obama the experience necessary to defeat McCain, but I rather doubt it.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. So you're conceding to McCain?
I am not sure what kind of experience you're talking about, but Obama has more than proven he can handle difficult situations in the primary. The GE will be a different animal and Obama will not have to fight with both hands tied behind his back as he had to do with Hillary. He can handle McCain.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm not a candidate, so I am not in a position to concede.
But the electoral facts strongly suggest a McCain victory in November. I'm not sure HC could have beat him even with taking Ohio, PA and FL in the primaries. I still think she had a better shot than Obama.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. You're thinking in the past.
It's time we start looking to the future. Obama has broken the mold in many ways during this primary; I have full confidence he can do the same in the GE. There are other states that will be in play (like Colorado).
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. What is the factual basis for that view?
Your subject line suggests history is not relevant. Well, it is and it remeains the best indicator of what will happen in the future because human nature does not change.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. History is relevant BUT
Edited on Thu May-08-08 10:53 AM by sparosnare
why just assume that all future races will be just like those in the past? Use what we know about past presidential races to develop a strategy for this one and do it differently. I don't really like the term "think outside the box" but that's exactly what needs to be done.

Who would have thought Obama could bring in 1.5 million donors of small contributions? No one.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I do not assume they will be "just like" the past.
But I don't expect a radical break either since the demographics have not changed much since the last two elections.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I guess we'll see.
I happen to think anything is possible this year. Variables have changed quite a bit.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. So fucking what? She Ain't the nominee. And she won't be.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. That is up to the SD's. And it doesn't change my point. nt
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Outside of japery disguised as "insight" exactly what is your point??
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I can't "concede" to McCain because I am not a candidate.
I can only look at the electoral map and see that it adds up to a repeat of 1988.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Rudy dropped out because his divorce was going public & ugly.
That and he was losing to Clinton in early polls.

But Rudy would have been a much tougher opponent than Lazio.

And Ryan would have been much tougher than Keyes.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. exactly.
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. Nope. It was the cancer. God knows by electing Hillary infidelity wasn't a factor for New Yorkers.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Actually
I don't think his heart was in being a Senator and the GOP pushed him into it. He used the cancer to get out of it.

Going from being the mayor of the largest city in the country to one of 100 and equal to someone from Idaho wasn't something that really appealed to him from what I read....he also had no interest in campaigning in upstate NY.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. "Hillary infidelity" ??
Oh, so she's an infidel, now...
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Please use a dictionary for once and look up the word.
It's evident you don't know what the word means.

You do know how to use a dictionary, don't you?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. LOL
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Aw, wassa matta, no humor for you today???
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
34. Its wasn't infidelity. It was using the NY Police as chaffeurs for his mistress.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. Actually
Edited on Thu May-08-08 10:47 AM by Jake3463
Obama lost a race in Illinois for congress.

You learn alot more from losing than you do from winning.

Bill Clinton lost a govenor's race in the 80's as well...and he says that taught him alot.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Obama won because he kicked everyone off the ballot thru bullshit shady crap
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. No
Edited on Thu May-08-08 10:50 AM by Jake3463
He lost a race for Congress in 2000. He ran against an incumbent and got creamed and went back to the state senate.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH I JUST SAID

Did you even read my post or just see the Obama logo and go batshit..
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. I'm thinking it's the batshit contingent....
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Seriously
It's gotten to a point they see Obama they go into a rage and release the talking points.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Really......"RELEASE THE TALKING POINTS!!!!....."
:rofl:
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. It isn't shady to insist that your opponents follow election law
Half the anti-Obama camp argues that he isn't "tough and tested" and the other half complains that he didn't roll over and let opponents with bogus signatures get away with it.

It's a puzzle.

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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Wow, You are like, SOOO smart!! Like, can I hang around you after school??
Because you're smart and stuff??
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
31. Uncovering your opponents' violations of election law is not "bullshit shady crap."
Rather, it's a trait I want to see if we're going to be facing the Republicans.
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
38. So he can manipulate the system better than the Clintons?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. Has McCain faced a real election before
Other than his run for the nomination 8 years ago.

He was a personal friend of Raygun and was handed a congressional seat and Senate seat in Arizona.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Fear them!
Edited on Thu May-08-08 10:59 AM by RUMMYisFROSTED
  • William Hegerty
  • Harry Braun
  • Richard Kimball
  • Claire Sargent
  • Ed Ranger


    :scared:
    		•
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    cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:56 AM
    Response to Original message
    13. And you post this drivel here because......
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    karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:57 AM
    Response to Original message
    16. Well - they have now faced each other - and that is opposition
    Who in 2008 had faced opposition?

    Biden has had been a shoo-in in Delaware. He faced opposition when he ran against Dukakis et all and lost.
    Edwards had opposition in red state NC and won, but he was a poor third to HRC and Obama in 2008 and to Kerry in 2004.

    Don't forget that McCain lost to Bush in 2000. (In fact that loss was far more overwhelming that Bush's "victories" over Gore and Kerry)

    Who do you think should run then?
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    madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:07 AM
    Response to Original message
    26. there is no way ryan would have been the senator from illinois
    Edited on Thu May-08-08 11:09 AM by madrchsod
    he had about a 43% before he was axed. all but nine solid republican counties in illinois voted for barack instead of keyes. while in those counties that barack won kerry lost big time.

    obama has state record/ experience while hillary does`t.

    i live in illinois and i`m surrounded by solid republican counties
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    Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:25 AM
    Response to Original message
    29. Jack Ryan was trailing Obama by nearly twenty points in the polls *before* the sex scandal broke.
    Edited on Thu May-08-08 11:26 AM by Occam Bandage
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    olkaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:53 AM
    Response to Original message
    35. More concern trolling....
    Ugh. Moving on.
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    MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:53 AM
    Response to Original message
    36. Clinton was tied with her opponent
    in her first senate race a few months before the election. She ran a real race with real opposition.
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    cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:55 AM
    Response to Original message
    37. He's run a pretty darn good campaign so far.
    That's just my opinion. Oh, and you're right about competitive races. I all Obama, but I won't lash out at your for mentioning that. We're all in it to beat McCain and the Republican party. I'm confident. More so that I have been in years.
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    WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:57 AM
    Response to Original message
    39. Obama had huge opposition in his Senate Primary
    It was a wide field with a millionaire who funded his own campaign and the darling of the Chicago Democratic Party machine as the first and second place candidates going into the race.

    Obama was considered an also ran through most of the campaign.

    He ended up with a majority of the votes in that primary.
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