This appears to be the strategy: appeal to everyone to lay down your weapons, THEN attack

Speaking with the paper, Clinton rejected the notion her comments were racially divisive in any way.

"These are the people you have to win if you're a Democrat in sufficient numbers to actually win the election," she said. "Everybody knows that."

Obama spokesman Bill Burton called Clinton's statements "not true and frankly disappointing."


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Of course, people do not usually lay them down....

"Whether a weapon is offensive or defensive depends on which end points towards you."

"machiavellian" perhaps.

Machiavellian, indeed. x(

She's slitting her own throat and we're being forced to watch. It's ugly as possible.

The Clinton campaign and its supporters should be viewed as in violation of DU rules.

eom

It seems to last forever but is actually usually the shortest one.

We'll be all right. :hi:

Some very powerful posters/moderators have supported Clinton throughout. Once Obama is named the nominee, some people will have to make hard choices, about their position or their contribution, to DU. Or else they will have to change the rules. One or the other.

I haven't discerned a huge amount of pro-Clinton bias from the moderators. I certainly haven't seen ANY bashing Obama.

I said "supporting Clinton throughout", and from that you extrapolate to "pro-Clinton bias" and "bashing Obama".

that's ok, I'm just saying you're injecting unnecessary hyperbole into what I said.

that's it's such a big deal that certain posters/mods would have to change their posting habits or DU would have to change the rules. That's melodramatic and it's bullshit and slightly creepy.

all anyone has to do is read my post and then read your post.

its too bad, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you.

I edited to add: did you NOT read my post that upset you? I said "after Obama is named the nominee". At that point, ALL of us are supposed to change the way we post, if we've been supporting Clinton to that point. That should include the mods and owners of the site. I"m saying that will be bittersweet and will require them to rethink and change their position. Or, if they do not, they will have to change the rules.

I frankly do not see anything snarky about that.

I've been trying hard to avoid the whole topic of this contest. Never once have I brought up the topic myself, never. And she obviously needed to talk about it. She's listening for the first time EVER to Rush, to Hannity, to Fox, to O'REILLY. She was BESIDE herself. She's voting for McCain, everyone is DEAD to her. And she wound up shouting at me and hanging up.

We haven't had that kind of phone call since I was 16 and stayed out all night. :wow::wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

I have no clue how we're going to get through this. We usually talk at least once a day, like a good Latina mother/daughter pair. So much anger, even hatred. She didn't sound like the person I've known for fifty years.

This isn't going to be easy in any way. :scared:

It won't be easy. There are alot of hurt feelings even among old friends.

I'll try to be clear: it is my belief that the Clinton campaign is now openly working to wreck Obama's chances in the GE. To the extent that DU is permitting their surrogates to propagate their crap here, DU is being used in that effort. That is against DU rules.

Skinner doesn't base the DU posting rules on your tinfoil. Again, the rules are right there at the top of the page. I suggest you read them.

Bake

So yes that is true. And certainly Skinner et al don't have to pay any attention to anything I write here. Other than describing my beliefs as 'tinfoil', did you have a point?

My point is that if I am correct in my belief that the Clinton campaign is now openly working to wreck the Democratic Party's presumptive nominee's chances in the general election, then that activity comes into direct conflict with DU rules and thus requires a recondsideration of the primary open season rules.

Even if the rules aren't changed, and I do understand the honest arguments against such a change, discussing what the situation actually is at this point, and why considering a rule change is not a 'tinfoil' request, is a good thing.

And I say that as a Clinton supporter who recognizes that it's pretty much over. Just not officially over, even if the result isn't really in doubt.

But you're welcome to check with Skinner and see if he agrees with you. It's HIS site, after all.

Bake

"At some point between now and the Democratic convention in August, one of the two remaining Democratic front-runners will drop out of the race, and the remaining candidate will become the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. When we have a presumptive nominee, the time for fighting on DU will come to an end. The squabbling will not drag on until the "official" nomination at the convention in August. The transition to general election mode begins when we have a presumptive nominee. And we have no doubt that the vast majority of our members -- regardless of which candidate you support in the primaries -- will be glad to move forward and support the nominee."

(bold emphasis all mine)

The problem is that unlike prior primary seasons, the loser has simply refused to concede. Clinton is not going to drop out, not now, not ever. She is going to march into the convention in Denver with her zombie campaign still fighting for 2012. The admins need to rethink how to deal with this case, as we have never had this situation here before.

A candidate with enough delegates pledged/committed to clinch the nomination. Do we have that yet? No. Don't like it? Call your superdelegates.

Bake

We are all Democrats, supporting Democratic candidates in a Democratic Primary.

Just because you feel Hillary should drop out and you feel she has some nefarious reason to stay in does not make that so.

Nor are her supporters here trying to wreck Obama's chances.

We are supporting our chosen candidate just like you are.

Perhaps if you would take a moment to realize that there are alot of good Duers who simply support someone other then your choice you would realize also that we are not the enemy.

We are not breaking any rules by supporting Hillary and people who do break the rules on either side will be dealt with by the Mods.

I suggest maybe sticking to the Obama forum if you want an echo chamber before the primary is over.

it is about: is the Clinton campaign working to spoil our chances in the GE?. I think that is exactly what the Clinton campaign is doing at this point, and that comes into direct conflict with other overriding DU rules.

and fortunately DU rules are not moderated around your conspiracy theories.

Skinner has clearly laid out the rules for GD/P. They're tacked to the top of the page. You should read them sometime. Until we OFFICIALLY have a nominee, this isn't the Obama Underground.

But feel free to go ahead and purge everyone you don't like. Oh wait ... you don't own DU, Skinner does.

Bake

And that consequently, DU should reconsider its rules for primary season.

Skinner was clear and you need to deal with his rules.

You can read them here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4798898

Support for Senator Clinton is not viewed as a violation of DU rules at this time.

after wisconsin, as soon as Obama tried to talk about McCain he got the kitchen sink thrown at him from behind, and it kept going for a week straight. Basically everyday there was something new. Then with "sniper-gate" , which flared up big whenobama wasn't even in the country, she then said the "I wouldn't have stayed in that church" statement, seemingly to get the heat off her. I hope things end civilly, or that the superdelegates make clear in no uncertain terms, what they want the tone of the debate to be. The seem to be the most dangerous when they are cornered or on the ropes. Maybe the old adage is true ' The most dangerous man in a gun fight is the one who isn't afraid of being shot. (because they feel they have little to lose and a lot to gain perhaps)

And from the look of it, it could be a while.

that the white vote is the most important one?

:puke:

I was all for conciliation yesterday and not clamoring for her to drop out, but I am disgusted by her comments today. I don't think she was implying that blacks don't work hard, as some have suggested...I actually think she threw in the word white to make it clear that that was not what she was saying. But I find her whole premise that certain demographic groups' preferences should be weighted more heavily than others offensive, especially when one of the groups she considers less important has been our most reliable voting bloc for 60 years.

being conciliatory, she's becoming even MORE delusional, and DAMAGING.

The desire to hear all sides, give the benefit of the doubt, believe in the decency and reason of humans. She isn't going to stop. We have to accept it and counter accordingly. The only thing we need to focus on is MI & FL. If we stop that, we stop her.

at all times," is the single most important instruction that referees give boxers before the first round starts.

Get out of the way and he will Hillary. The states you "have" to win as a Democrat, we WILL win. Period. And, with Obama, we might just pick up a few traditionally red states as well.

yeouch