I lost three friends yesterday.

They refuse to even talk with me anymore about politics. Two of us got gassed/peppered in the Battle for Seattle WTO protest. All of us went and marched at the Iraq anti-war protest in Feb 2003 in downtown Seattle. All of us support Darcy Burner for Congress too.

But they did what they call an intervention on me and told me if I could not support Obama then they could no longer be friends with me.

What is happening to this nation? Its like Bush has cut a huge wound and now salt is being poured into it by Obama and his supporters.

I feel like an outcast . . . a pariah.

I am very sad and hopeless.
:cry:

they are trying to help you....

eventually you will understand.

???

I feel sorry for you.......really, I do.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

with Obama buttons. Zealotry will do that to a person.

As an Obama supporter, I can say that if they'd break friendship with you over your decision to not support Senator Obama, then they really weren't your friends. However, I will say this much. If you're a Democrat, give him a chance and review his policies. He's really not that much different from Hillary.

What is happening to this nation? You might want to start by looking in the mirror, n'est-ce pas? You seem to be pretty convinced of whom to fault for the division.

:think:

that it is the Hillbots who are splitting the nation.- You can't get a word in edgewise when you try to explain your position... they are right you are wrong. Sounds just like Hillary.

n/t

Notice they never mention unity anymore?

n/t

I call 'em like I see 'em.

Or did I get the math and logic wrong?

And definitely not PRO-Obama.
You may understand some math, but you obviously don't understand how time works.

Give me a break. Assuming you actually lost friends as you say, its not because you don't support Obama, its because of whatever idiotic fights you had that surrounded this and probably many other issues.

In my case, I have many friends and family members who support even McCain and still like Bush. Somehow we don't throw each other out the window or out of our lives.

There was a man who had a dog, and BINGO was his name-o!

I notice the original poster has not come back to reply to any of the posts here, that always makes me wonder!

...you may want to try it out.

You might want to try it.

agree with you.

I really find the post to be suspicious.

Just sayin....

IMO, people who put themselves "on the line" in dangerous situation - don't later threaten their friends whom they depend on to "watch their back." :shrug:

What axe are you grinding?

but there in fact not.

Every citizen has a civic right to abstain from voting as a protest. I do intend to vote for Barack Obama, but I respect the political decision of those who do not as their right.

So go out and find yourself some true friends - and don't look back.

Sam

I don't know anybody who behaves that way, and I'm sorry it's happening to you, for any reason.

I hope this all passes.

:thumbsup:

this is a ridiculous concept, a political intervention - "SUPPORT OBAMA OR ELSE" i mean, on the internet is one thing but this kind of crap just doesn't happen in real life.

how many of us have arch conservative parents, siblings, friends, children, coworkers who we endure and love despite their differences?

if you actually had this happen to you, i'd say you're better off without pod people friends like this. honestly

Look around this forum....

this forum is exactly the same as every single other forum (on every single topic) on the entire internet

its widely known that manners are completely lost online. if you don't realize this, or if this is the only forum you frequent, you need to understand that this place is not an anomaly, its like this everywhere

and frequent other forums. I even admin a well respected one (with another focus) whose members you might expect to be much more unruly sorts than this.

Even so- things like what the OP mentions have been -and do occur IRL, particularly with dynamics such as we've been seeing- and where they're constantly and consistently reinforced with group think mentalities.

What's dysfunctional here is that the internecine struggles don't reflect many real life policy rifts. The candidates are both largely the same sorts of "moderates," each with a record of "selling out" and ingratiating themselves with corporate interests of one sort or another.

This isn't a Dem v. Green battle- it's even not a DLC v. Progressive battle. It's taken an entirely different tone.

One that doesn't bode very well for our chances in November.

It's get people involved above and beyond presidential politics vs. money and votes please and then just go home.

That their centrist platforms don't differ much is irrelevant to the issue of framing.

I'm an idiot. We all are sometimes.

Wto Protesting, ur doin it wrong.

... for Clinton supporter to just make up shit like this.

Because they're so admirable, dontchaknow?

with stories about how someone on welfare bought some luxury item. and other right wing propaganda.

I am crying. Spent the morning at a funeral and I really needed that laugh. Emailed it to myself because I will have some fun with this. Thanks. Peace, Kim

:grouphug:

HAHAHAHAA!

That one got me...

:rofl:

My sister will probably vote for McCain. She lives in KY and is registered as an I. I told her that she needs to get down to the Board of Elections and register as a D or R and participate in this thing. In my heart I hope that she would support Obama but there is a good chance that she will waste one on Great Grandpa. The point is that she should choose and make up her own mind. Your friends are out of line. Best idea is to lay it on the line and agree to not talk politics. If the friendship is important to you have a heart to heart and agree not to discuss this anymore. This is what I have to do with my entire family. Good luck and good thoughts your way. Peace, Kim

people are frustrated? We aren't working at figuring out how to get out of the mess that Bush will be leaving us, because they are insisting on repeating the Rev. W. stuff...the drip, drip, drip of the same old/same old until we are all ready to scream.

I have also lost friends and family members over this race, but I figure that once they see how ridiculous they are and how serious this race is, they'll be back. Part of it was my fault, as I was talking too much about how upset I was with Bush and this administration. They got sick of hearing it. However, little by little, it will sink in. It has to hit them in the pocketbook before they finally catch on. We are seeing the tide coming...they don't see it yet.

Also, some people are so scared and are afraid of change. McCain may end up being the "bankie" they hold onto until this financial mess is over. I fear people will think this isn't the time they can take a chance on Obama.
Hang in there. You have the majority with you and that ain't all bad.

They seem to be more like the drinking buddies I used to have years ago.

Hopefully you can feel badly for them - but also grateful you have your autonomy.

9.7 for humor and a -0001 for believability.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5894592

As to Clinton, once she concedes... your choices will be as follows

1.- Stay home... don't bitch to me if you do that, you surrender your right to bitch by not participating in the process

2.- Cross and vote for McCain... your welcome here will be short lived.

3.- Write in HRC... see above

4.- Vote third party... I personally will respect you a tad more since we do need third parites

5,- For for the nominee

Btw, I was first for Kucinich and then for Edwards... the math is unassailable at this point

Oh and DO TAKE TIME TO GRIEVE the end of a dream is always hard

Say you and I had a civil discussion... what would you say? It's Hillary or nobody?

Please stop making assumptions. It's unbecoming.

:shrug:

It was very sad.

:cry:

they will see the exact same behaviour.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

First, thats superiorly Harsh. I just had dinner with a friend of mine who is saying he will vote for McCain. I gave him some Obama stickers, and left it at that. He is coming round. He just had to join a Union this year, and thats major progress for him. Heart of Gold, but blind as a bat, all that kinda thing. Unless your friendship is purely based on shared politics, thats pretty lame.


I would ask that you try to distinguish between Obama and his supporters. Obama did NOT do this. 3 people did this, not a single one is named Obama(at least, I feel safe assuming). I know its hard, especially after something like this.

responses that see this for what it is, SatireV...once it dawns on them, others will be truely pissed. Very good. Note to self...no poker with SatireV. (or BlooinBloo, for that matter)

:thumbsup:

After 7 years of Bush- and even more with a Republican or Complicit Dem Congress, a lot of our satire meters are so far out of calibration- that even something emphatic escapes us.

:rofl:

Damn- sucks feeling dumb!

Props to those who got it....

Sorry for forgetting:

“All truth is valuable, and satirical criticism may be considered as useful when it rectifies error and improves judgment; he that refines the public taste is a public benefactor” ~Samuel Johnson.

it isn't SatireV
is is satireV

That is Veritas spelled backwards.

It comes from a James Morrow Nebula Award winning novella entitled "City of Truth" (notice my sig)

I find it ironic that you and some others have called me a liar given this. From SFF.net blurb on City of Truth

In Veritas, the City of Truth, people have been brutally conditioned to always tell the truth, no matter how unnerving (or droll) the truth may be. It will come as no surprise, then, that elevators in Veritas carry the notice THIS ELEVATOR MAINTAINED BY PEOPLE WHO HATE THEIR JOBS. RIDE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Or that cigarette packs say WARNING: THE SURGEON GENERAL'S CRUSADE AGAINST THIS PRODUCT MAY DISTRACT YOU FROM THE MYRIAD WAYS YOUR GOVERNMENT FAILS TO PROTECT YOUR HEALTH.

Thanks for your time.

:spray:

True friends regardless of different opinions will always remain friends. I don't want friends who will drop me because I don't agree with them. I have a lot of friends who are jewish and we share very different opinions about Israel. My friends having different opinions is what I treasure the most. It makes me question the world more and myself about different things. If everyone shared the same opinions...life would be too fucking boring.

And Welcome to DU. :hi:

Most people are like this. We are all different and we respond to different people different ways. It's called social interaction.


He lost THREE different people as friends I think there is much which can be inferred from that fact or part of his little story.

And you are committed to your silly little psychodrama.

I want to be friends with your former friends. They're doing the right thing.

STFU, nobody gives a shit about your little trustafarian friends.

is hopeless and good things will come of this long primary season--that I know.

I wouldn't worry about it. With friends like that, who needs enemies? They could agree to disagree with you if they were real friends.

because they didn't like you very much anyway. It happens.

GEESH!!

unless satireV submits to thinking like they do, and you say that is Hillary's fault? :eyes:

One thing is clear: nobody can claim Obama is a "unity" candidate with a straight face anymore.

dividing the nation by "elite" and "working class," hillary is the divisive one. wake up before its too late.

:rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

"Who are you calling an asshole, jerk?"

"You called me a jerk? What kind of unifier are you?"

:eyes:

That's my problem with the more hardened Clinton supporters -- they're more Clinton people than Democrats. My nominee didn't get elected either, but I still believe wholeheartedly in the Democratic ticket.

she married a republican in Atlanta, it took him about 5 years, but he convinced her republican was the mind set to be and now she is a step-ford icky republican, loves Bush, supported the war.

So are you voting for McCain now? I'd dump you too if that was the case.

(more or less).

We used to be the party of tolerance. We've never followed one leader, no question asked.

But this election cycle has exposed some ugly faces.

You are not an outcast as far as we, DUers who support open discussions are.

Do your former friends realize how they mimic Bush: "either you are with us, or you are against us."

Do the Obama zealots realize that such an approach is a sure way to lose voters?

Why can't you support both? Be pro Hillary and Pro Obama? I am pro both (at least i was at the beginning of the year); Hillary went to far to the right about the "nuke Iran" comment that it made me internally sick (Bush has never even said anything that bad).

But why not support both?

If they were talking about GE, they were right to do that.

for you

;)

If you're protesting the war, and the WTO, I can't imagine you are supporting Hillary.

Do you believe, as many do, that Obama is a closet corporatist?

Obama has championed his mantra/dogma that he is the agent of change.

Yet you are the first one to point out he may be a closet corporatist. (Much worse than a right wing GOPer who is a closeted gay)

There is one FACT that may point out Obama's corporatist inclinations. Obama watered down a nuclear energy regulation that would have mandated reporting of nuclear safety issues rather than make the reporting of the issue a "suggestion." This directly affected Exelon Corp which ontributed to Obama's Senate and POTUS election camapign and who had Axlerod working for them.


If that is "change" then Bush is benign.

BTW. Obama won NC by 14-15 points. If Obama runs against McCain in the General election, do you think he could win NC? NC hasn't voted blue since Carter.

PS. I don't support any of the candidates at this time.

OTOH, I don't think Hillary would stand a chance. There's a lot of military here and, no matter her tough talk, they remember her attitudes towards the military from Bill's time. I don't think she understands or really connects with the military, but sees them as just another voting bloc.

Obama may be a centrist who leans toward corporatism, but he did reject the DLC, and he does not dismiss the activists on the left as a bunch of vote-losing nuisances. I don't delude myself to believe he's a leftist hero, but he does seem willing to actually listen to the left.

Does your moniker gives us any clues relative to the truthfulness of your OP?

:shrug:

This story is unbelievable. I mean, the attitude is so idiotic that it appears unrealistic.

... in an anti-Iraq War protest only to now turn around and support one of the many Dems who had voted "Yea" for it.

I'd be more confused than angry with you, I guess.

From where I stand, a vote for Hillary in this election is to send her a message that not only do you agree with her "Yea" vote back in October 2002, but that you approve of her "Yea" vote last year September 2007, for the Kyl / Lieberman Amendment which authorizes Bush to launch war against Iran as well - something he is currently putting into the works.

However, you seem like a nice person. I don't think I'd make you an outcast were you my friend. Disappointed? Yeah. But never to the point I'd make you feel like an outcast. You'd still be my friend. :pals:

I have never said I am a Sen Clinton supporter, here or to my three former friends.

Next. Obama never voted against the IWR.

Next. Obama voted to fund the Bush War on Iraq to the amount of 300 billion in deficit spending (yes I know it was with timelines, so what?)

Next. It is the Kyl/Lieberman RESOLUTION not an amendment and did not have the force of law

Next. Obama co-spsonsored the Counter Proliferation Act of 2007 which had a clause in it that would force the POTUS to label the Iranian Revlutionary Guard a terrorist org. The same intent of Kyl/Lieberman. But with the force of law. (Source Ambassador Joe Wilson)

These are all verifiable facts. Not smears, not personal attacks on you or Obama... just facts. But these are the things I pointed out to my friends who subsequently ostracized me. They didn't like me pointing out Obama's feet of clay.

Feb 2003 was a long time ago it seems. People seem to forget the lies and deception perpetrated by the Bush Regime on the world. I find it rather duplicitous to say any Dem who voted yes on the IWR actually voted for the War we have now.

I hope you still consider me a nice person. We do both live on the Best Coast. :)

If someone cannot support the democratic nominee, whoever that ends up being, they need an intervention. If for no other reason then the supreme court....

Unfortunately, their intolerance for your right to choose who you want to vote for did little to nudge you towards Obama. If anything, it nudged you away.

Sometimes friendships get back together; sometimes not.

I don't discuss the primary with friends who are Democrats, unless I know their position. We have so many other things in common to talk about, we can live without gassing over politics for one primary season.

Anyway, not all Obama supporters are like your friends.

Take me, for instance. I would NEVER criticize you for supporting someone other than Obama. I'm just sitting here under the Democratic Party Big Tent, singing Kumbaya, and passing out free beers

What is happening to this nation?
You tell us - take a look in the mirror.

I mean, on an internet chat forum is one thing. In real life, that's psycho.

If they're using pressure and threats and blackmail to get you to support him in the primary, they are being jerks. If they're talking about the general election and you are saying you won't vote for Obama if he's the nominee then YOU are the jerk.

Context is important.

So, you're saying that you won't support Obama if he's the nominee for the General Election, and you're looking for sympathy?

Look, man, I marched against the WTO myself. Marched against I-200. Supported Burner. Anti-war marches, May Day marches...bfd. We're at a crucial point and you're not willing to support Obama over John frigging McCain? Really? And you're blaming Obama supporters for your feelings?

Buck the fuck up. Yes, if you live here, you live in an Obama stronghold. My precinct went to Obama 5 to 1 over Clinton. That, however, was months ago. And now you're saying that your friends are somehow demanding that you support Obama over McCain, and that's hurting you?

I just don't get it.

Okay, so if I were really close to someone and they said that they'd be supporting McCain, it might cause a rift between us. I can't imagine heading to Democratic Underground <ahem> to complain that I was feeling like an outcast over refusing to support the Democratic nominee, though.

If I've misunderstood you, please feel free to let me know. I'm really just baffled here.

The next opportunity for supporting a candidate will be the GE.

Everything! I couldnt' believe you got so much wrong.

I never said who I supported or didn't support. Please stop the projection. I never blamed anyone for my feelings. In fact I specifically posted how I felt not how they make me feel. Please reread my post and don't put any more into it than is there.

In fact some of your wordings, phrasings, and assumptions are exactly like theirs.

I am scared of you.

And when asked you to correct me if I misunderstood, I meant it.

You aren't willing to support Obama. That much is clear. Our caucus and primary is over, so you're not talking about those.

Are you not referring to the GE? Are you not saying that you won't support Obama in the GE? Please do clarify, because I'm obviously misunderstanding something, but you haven't actually told me what that is.

yer kidding. i hope.

I mean...if you were protesting and all...I want to hear, in your words, why you feel so strongly that you are against the WTO.

If you can't explain this, then the post is bullshit.

Not that tough to figure out why is it?

...it is patently wrong for your former colleagues to denigrate you for your position.

I do support Obama, but I entirely respect your choice in this matter.

I'm sorry to hear that your former friends have become so idealogical that they think it's a good idea to disrespect you. ...Kinda sounds like the mentality that Cheney/Bush has already foisted on our once proud nation.

I (for one) am extremely grateful that you directly fought against the WTO. I know these are difficult times; but please be of good cheer & continue to fight the good fight. Let your conscience be your only guide.

(Respect to you)

It is never a one sided issue when you lose a friend I think the saying goes 'it takes two'. When you lose many friends one has to start to wonder why. Often searching for a common denominator is a good start in this instance you lost three totally different people in that instance it is you who is the common denominator.

real problems in the world

Burma, Darfur,

think you may be satirical in this post - if not, get over it.

WTF, they won't befriend you just because you support Obama? How fucking childish! It's not about what is happening to this country but the about the idiocy of your so called "friends".

I wouldn't associate with anyone who tells me how I must vote.

on NOT to try to change her mind. She knows I worked for the Obama campaign here. I know
she's still for Clinton. We chose not to make it an issue in our friendship.

If the basis for your friendships with these two people was politics, that may be why it is causing such friction.
I'm sorry for you loss.

I think we talked a little the other day about NC and how Red it is.

I feel saddened that you and your second best friend can't talk politics. Is this because if you do it would ruin your friendship?


BTW what do the polls look like in NC for a Democratic win in the Nov Presidential election?

go on the basis of support for one Democratic candidate vs. another. I have a few friends who support Clinton -- we remain friends and I hope always will. Some of us can still talk about the race, others of use can't so we just plain don't. I'm sorry to hear this. Perhaps they need a reminder about what you all fought together for -- it certainly wasn't so that each of us doesn't have the right to choose to support and vote for the candidates of our choice.

No one who is or was against the WTO would ever be for Hillary Nafta Clinton.

It's for our own good though.
I am the master of metaphors.

:hide:

:hug:

:crazy:

He's waiting for you, and he's got a big sack full of Republican Cash left over from 2004.

...are reading your mail right now to determine how best to annoy you.

You KNOW it is, new poster.

What kind of fun stuff will we see next?

(presumably for the Presidency) and you said no and it's their fault. They are the ones pouring salt into a wound, not you, and they are the ones supporting the Democratic candidate whilst you cannot.


FFS grow up and stop grizzling like a 5 year old who has been told no chocolate!

I'll be your friend. :loveya:

You're sweet!

:hug:

BTW I don't support or not support any of the presidential candidates. Cali and WA will both go Blue in Nov.

I am working for the local Dem Darcy Burner in order to get rid of the warmongering Reichert and MY Congresscritter is McDermott! LOL

You are better off without them. Most Obama followers have a crazy look in their eyes like there is nothing behind them.

One of us! One of us!

Not because they're Obama supporters -- nothing wrong with that, and you'll meet some really nice Obama supporters here, many of whom have already responded -- but because of the way they'd treat anyone who isn't, especially a friend.

but I'm not buying it.

Or else they're just really pissed at you after an argument and will come back around in a few days.

They were really real!

I understand why you are sad, but, think of the type of personality that makes that phone call.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

n/t

I am Obama of Borg.

Resistance is futile.

Your life as it has been is over.

From this time forward, you will service ...

us.

Yes we can.

:rofl:

though your friends should not have put you in this position. Don't blame Obama and his supporters, blame your two friends, who obviously weren't real friends to you to begin with.

I read this and assumed that

1. The poster, because s/he was at the Battle of Seattle, etc., is a pretty committed anti-corporate/globalization/GOP/DLC activist, and thus has never at any point been a Hillary supporter.

2. The poster's friends are also of similar political persuasion.

3. The "friends" are upset that the poster thinks *even* Obama is too much of a sellout, and s/he will either abstain or vote Nader or another 3rd party/independent.

4. The "friends" think it's of such paramount importance to oust the hard-right GOP that the poster MUST hold his/her nose and vote for Obama.

5. The poster thinks that voting for any pro-corporate candidate, including Obama, is a betrayal of the whole real movement for change (which is real, "putting-yourself-on-the-line" anti-corporate activism, not chanting "Yes we can!" and then continuing to shop at Wal-Mart).

I sympathize. I find it increasingly difficult to be interested in close friendships with people who cannot see that the stranglehold corporations and the oligarchy have over our government cannot be challenged or overcome by more of the same - of either party.

So, you were marching against the war....but you have no problem siding with Hillary - who voted FOR going in. Is that about the size of it?

I can see why your friends dumped you.

Maybe they lost all respect for you due to willful blindness of her proven lies?

EDIT: maybe this is satire? :p

but the division of the D Party is apparent in some quarters...and suffice it to say...you have your own mind, and can support whom you wish, (well, not MCain, at least not here...:D ).

and surely youd pick him over mccain?

if not, you should think about what party you should belong to.

p.s.

you should know i question this actually happening. i think your just trying to start stuff and back up the 'their a cult! their zombies!' garbage that hillary supporters have been throwing around at DU.

I wouldn't end a friendship over a political difference. Some of my friends are very different politically than I am. I'm sorry to hear you're feeling down :hug:

That being said, I strongly urge you to give Senator Obama another look. He and Hillary Clinton are much much closer on the issues than either of them are to McCain. McCain has promised to appoint more right-wing judges to the Court, and there are most likely going to be several SC retirements coming up. Plus, both Obama and Clinton want to end the Iraq occupation, while McCain is willing to stay for "100 years"! Besides, Hillary Clinton said she would work her heart out for Barack if he becomes the nominee. So, in a sense, a vote for Obama would be like supporting Clinton and her goal to help him get in the White House.

I've got a mixed animal I want to sell you. Or at least lease.

Voting is a choice and a personal one. If they think who you vote for is more important then friendship then they were not too good friends to begin with. Support who you want to and find some more loyal friends. Obama or McCain or HRC don't need or want people like that anyway, nothing but zombies. You aren't a pariah, you just made a poor choice of friends.

Since Obama will be the nominee most likely though and if you support Dem causes then please think about supporting him over letting Repubs continue to rule. Remember McCain maybe different then most of them, but he is and will be beholden to a party establishment so support for him means 4 more years at least of this country going nowhere fast.