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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 12:25 AM
Original message
Now On to ‘Florigan’!
Edited on Sun May-11-08 12:27 AM by madfloridian
I don't always agree with Jonathan Alter, and he often irritates me on Countdown. However I agree with him on this issue of Florida and Michigan.

Just the threat of a convention floor fight gives Hillary a weapon to use both in private and in public.

Another hidden factor pushing superdelegates away from Hillary is "Florigan" or "Michida"—or whatever we should call these scofflaw states that moved up their primaries in defiance of party rules. Out of desperation, Hillary is putting all her chips on the injustice done to Floridians and Michiganders, even though she said early in the process that their votes "shouldn't count."

Never mind the hypocrisy here. Never mind that Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe was the one who first insisted the rules be enforced. (When Michigan Sen. Carl Levin wanted to move up that state's primary in 2004, McAuliffe, then party chairman, screamed at him: "If I allow you to do that, the whole system collapses! The rules are the rules." This is from McAuliffe's own memoirs.) The problem for Hillary is that party officials in the other 48 states don't give a rat's patootie about seating Florida and Michigan. In fact, they're angry at those states for jumping the line, then whining about it. The whole imbroglio, says Simon Rosenberg of the New Democrat Network, has been "instrumental" in driving superdelegates to Obama.


Alter points out her use of class and race.

To keep that trickle of superdelegate commitments from turning into a flood, Hillary will likely continue the delightful and uplifting argument that she made to USA Today that she has a large and expanding base among "hardworking Americans, white Americans." This is code for "America isn't ready for a black man," but it's also unsubstantiated. Her share of white, working-class voters actually diminished considerably from Ohio and Pennsylvania to North Carolina and Indiana, largely because the more recent primary states are younger. It's "the granny gap," stupid. For all her claims of a broad coalition, Hillary's only reliable base is older white women with no college education. She obviously doesn't crush Obama among white voters more generally or she would already be the nominee.


I have always felt this was her ticket to the convention...the Florida and Michigan delegate issue. Alter agrees.

With big wins in West Virginia and Kentucky, Hillary will likely hang on for at least a month. She can keep campaigning with a bare-bones, McCain '07-style operation and, despite some legal impediments, pay off debts with huge fund-raisers after the election. One key moment will come at the May 31 meeting of the rules committee of the Democratic Party, which is packed with Clintonites. She could likely manipulate the committee to push the Florigan question to the floor of the Denver convention in late August. That doesn't guarantee a floor fight, but the threat of one gives Hillary a weapon to use both in private and in public.


I have seen the divisions this has caused in my state. She is using this state as a way to get to the convention. It is affecting the attitude here in our state, it is affecting the fundraising at the DNC as the race draws out, it is dividing us.

Speaking of Simon Rosenberg,

But there is a line in politics where tough and determined becomes craven and narcissistic, where advocacy becomes spin, and where integrity and principle is lost. I am concerned that this Florida gambit by the Clinton campaign is once again putting two of my political heroes too close - or perhaps over - that line. So that even if they win this incredible battle with Barack Obama they will end up doing so in a way that will make it hard for them to bring the Party back together, and to lead the nation to a new and better day.

Campaign statements about Florida


He was a close friend and co-founder of the DLC with them in the 80s. That statement could not have been easy.




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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. To be fair, I hate how FL is always do things the wrong way lately
but if these two states were included they would go for Hillary as much as I hate to say it, this is a fact if you are being fair and logically without emotions or desires for the person you like. With this obvious fact she would still be in the race perhaps the leader.

I like Obama as much as the next guy but let us atleast be fair while winning the race.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. If FL and MI get their way....then other states can do as they wish as well.
That is the bottom line. The two states are no more important than any others.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I think Florida would have been closer than you think.
If you look at what happened in Florida when his campaign pulled out, you can see that it obviously hurt him pretty badly:



Especially when you compare it to his performance in Massachusetts, which occured in the same time frame:



You can look at his performance in every single contest here: http://www.pollster.com/, and you will see that it isn't just some fluke. He has shown incredible improvement in every state where his campaign has had a presence. I think you might be misjudging Florida a little bit.
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. May 31st will be a day to remember.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. If Fl & MI were seated with full delegates, a candidate would need 2206 (I think that's the number)
Edited on Sun May-11-08 01:18 AM by SoCalDem
SO , all that needs to happen is for the SDs to get Obama there before may 31..Game Over.. He would have the numbers, and even if FL & MI were "added", he would already HAVE the "magic" number..

and all the SDs could sign and publish a letter saying they were NOT changing their votes..
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Like your sig picture.
Like those rear view mirrors where things appear closer than they are.

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Shae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. We just have to see what happens
one day at a time, or one primary at a time.

But I have to say, the longer Clinton stays in, the worse she seems to look. Imagine if she'd graciously conceded shortly after Texas/Ohio. She could have salvaged most of her dignity at that point. As it stands, things keep looking worse and worse for her.

She had to cancel a dinner she planned to host for colleagues this week, because they were too busy to attend. Meanwhile they clamored to get into a photo shoot with Obama. Pelosi cut an interview short so she could get over to see him. Keep in mind, many of these people go back with Clinton 20 years or more, and Barack is the new kid in town.

And concerning her recent blunder, I imagine many superdelegates are absolutely stunned at her "hard working Americans, white Americans remark.". Especially those who are in elected offices know how important the A-A voting block is to Democrats.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Interesting, I had not heard about the dinner.
And Bill's comments in WV have alarmed many.

It's hard to know when to go.
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