Hey, Hold-Off on CNN-Bashing! Here's my take on Bounce-Gate.

Let's remember that CNN is not FOX. And:

1. Opinion Polling is not an exact science.

2. If you consider "registered voters" across all polls, results
are within margin of error (adjust Kerry UP by 3% on CNN and
adjust Kerry DOWN on others)

3. Gallup made most calls on Friday and Saturday Night and may
not been have able to precisely control for the
Friday/Saturday Night "party-hearty" effect -- respondents
at home and sober on those nights tend to be more conservative.

4. We need to accept the average result of "small bounce" and make
sure to keep the RNC bounce small as well.


Unfortunately, we can't control the Repub convention and they
are very comfortable with Kerry bashing, sliming, defaming, etc.

They have a definite propaganda advantage in that a combination of
vicious attack and strong vision is usually more persuasive that
strong vision alone.

because this election will bring out a LOT of previously apathetic non-voters on kerry's side, far more than for shrub.

That's Michael Moores take on it too.


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It's how their commentators only remarks after Al Sharpton's speech was how it ran over by 14 minutes.

It's having Ralph Reed comment on Kerry's speech immediately after he makes it.

It's cnn.com reporting on a few bush protesters at a Kerry rally and not mentioning -- at all -- that there were over 10,000 Kerry supporters there. 10,000 supporters vs. a couple dozen noisemakers? At least they didn't have to sign a loyalty oath to get in.

It's another story about how Kerry has to apologize to Dubuque because he once mentioned the city in an interview about 8 years ago, referring to how he hates traveling so far from home.

I was shocked by how biased their coverage was of the convention, actually. Apparently, they've decided to compete with Fox News for eyeballs.

I mean, how can they explain that their polls is so much different from everyone else's poll?

I'm done with CNN, and pretty depressed about it.

CNN may be more dangerous than Fox because if you are not tuned to the spin and fully informed their bias and deception is less obvious.

that CNN is not complicit in this? They were 'used'? How was that done? They were unwitting dupes of the Republicans? I don't think so.


And no, it's not about a poll, or the convention coverage, or any particular segment. It is about the totality of their programming. Things like mentioning the dozen anti-Kerry protestors but not the fact that the pro-Kerry crowd was thousands bigger than expected -- when that kind of thing is done in virtually every story, it's not a coincidence.

conglomerate or another.

Propaganda and illusion is part and parcel of modern existence.

Question is the usefulness of shouting at the TV. If we Dems don't
figure out how to co-opt CNN and other channels to achieve our
objectives as much as the Repubs have, then we have to live with the results.

CNN reporters are in a tough position vis-a-vis the competition since
they are labeled as the more "liberal" outlet. They have to
prove they are "objective."

Remember, there may be many right-wingers at CNN. But:

1. Judy Woodruff used to be that liberal Newshour reporter
2. Wolf Blitzer is reputed to be an early Kerry supporter
3. Christiane Amanpour is the wife of Jaime Ruben

.....

CNN was started by Ted Turner (liberal UN backer)
etc



But they are supposed to be totally objective!

Why do you insist without evidence that CNN is not complicit in this? They were 'used'? How was that done? They were unwitting dupes of the Republicans? How did the Republicans do this?



My Beef With Big Media, by Ted Turner

CNN on a specific poll and insist is was deliberately manipulated.
We have to figure how to deal with the reality we face.

As Kerry might say, this is complicated. Check out Jacque Elull's
"Propaganda" and "The Political Illusion" for a taste of how
confoundingly complex.

Why do you insist without evidence that CNN is not complicit in this? They were 'used'? How was that done? They were unwitting dupes of the Republicans? How did the Republicans do this?


My Beef With Big Media, by Ted Turner

Is that you are the one accusing CNN of something, so the burden of proof is on you. You can't possibly prove that CNN wasn't complicit in this, but you yourself have offered no proof that they were.

It's like when someone asks for proof that God doesn't exist. They are really the ones that need to offer up proof that God does exist, but they turn the tables and ask for evidence that something isn't true, which is impossible.

The questions: Why do you insist without evidence that CNN is not complicit in this? They were 'used'? How was that done? They were unwitting dupes of the Republicans? How did the Republicans do this?

Is that you are the one accusing CNN of something

A false statement. I didn't accuse CNN of anything. I asked the poster why he was insisting without evidence that CNN is not complicit in this.



It's like when someone asks for proof that God doesn't exist.

No, it's like asking someone why they insist, without evidence, that God either does or doesn't exist, lol.

you are saying that CNN was implicit in this. He's not answering your question because it is inherently flawed; the burden of proof rests on you.

In response to the comment:

The Repubs USED CNN, and We need to do the same at the RNC

I asked the questions:

Why do you insist without evidence that CNN is not complicit in this? They were 'used'? How was that done? They were unwitting dupes of the Republicans? How did the Republicans do this?

He cites a Columbia School of Journalism study that CNN is as biased as Fox....

CNN is Fox in drag...

in Atlanta, we are sickened at what our hometown CNN has become after Ted Turner relinquished control to the evil AOL/Time Warner.

in the 8-03-04 issue of the New York Times about media bias especially at CNN...

That Contradicted Their Poll....


Don't forget that Wolf Blitzer said "Kerry goes back on the trail with a thud" because he didn't get a bounce....


They are losers and clowns at CNN... They are desperate because Fox is kicking their asses and as Bryant Gumbel said about Good Morning America when they were desperately trying to catch the Today show in the rating "desperate people do desperate things."

I normally give the benefit of the doubt to CNN, but the Ralph Reed thing pissed me off. However, I'm witholding judgement until the Republican convention. If they are as hard on them as they were on us, then I'll have no problem with their coverage.

and Howard Dean on immediately after Cheney's speech, I wil rethink my plan to cancel them once my programming agreement expires.

your kidding right. This from a guy who started a Chicken Little piece because of CNN's fabricated polling? You remember, don't you? You are the one who started the subject line ... something to the effect of... 'CNN's Tactic is Working , What Do We Do Now" Their tactic only worked on people like you. I'd say most of us blew it completely off knowing it stunk to high hell as soon as they reported it.

since I have no search function, I wont way thru endless posts to fins yours. perhaps someone else with search will link us to it!

means that one should not expect big effects from the Convention.
Between the networks cutting back coverage, the cable news channels
punditing, and the Campaign going "all moderate," the Republican
counter-offensive or propaganda and event manipulation during and
around the Convention week (Berger leak, terro warnings)
could have been expected to be fairly effective with their base
as well as some swing voters.

Dems cannot win by bashing mainstream media like CNN. They are biased
towards giving the regime the benefit of any doubt.
We all know that -- look at the reporting before the war!

When Kerry is President you can expect some mainstream media to
morph towards Kerry positions.

To overturn mainstream media bias you need revolutionary change.
And that is not happening in 1 election and not this year.

They are a shill for that fascist fuck that stole our white house and is systematically eliminating our rights!

All do respect fellow Dem but get a clue!

I just get some of these folks in our country. Are we the only ones that see our way of life slipping away? For the love of GOD wake the FUCK UP!!!

CNN is more dangerous than Fox because they conceal their agenda.....


CNN is an insidious force in shaping opinion.....

maintain a perception that they are Kerry critics.

It's just filler to detract from their failures. After four years of all Bush's mess ups, why do some think he will do anything different, given 4 more years? He should be court-martialled for taking us into this bloody mess instead of being rewarded. He is an embarrassment to this country, to say the least.