A challenge to those who are not voting Obama because he's homophobic?

I'm a straight man, and I'm voting for Obama because he resolves a lot of my issues - I am NOT a ONE ISSUE person. I know about Donnie McClurkin, and I know he's a bigot, and I also know Obama is not exactly for gay marriage, but I am told he supports the idea of civil unions or at least giving the same-sex partners equal rights.

Other than what I know, can you please provide proof that Obama is a homophobic bigot? All I hear is Donnie McClurkin, and he's been out of the picture for quite some time. So I expect crickets chirping on this one - Prove me wrong.

Hawkeye-X

who makes McClurkin look like Elton John. He also stated that gays "live their lives in a way which causes discrimination". I will vote against John McCain so the ballot will read Obama but I won't be voting for Obama.

thanks... that is how quoting normally works, if you want people to listen to you.

I will try to remember to find the link when I get up and traffic is lower.

>>>>Anti-gay Contoversy
A spring 2007 newsletter from the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) named Meeks one of the "10 leading black religious voices in the anti-gay movement". The newsletter cites him as both “a key member of Chicago's ‘Gatekeepers’ network, an interracial group of evangelical ministers who strive to erase the division between church and state” and “a stalwart anti-gay activist… … has used his House of Hope mega-church to launch petition drives for the Illinois Family Institute (IFI), a major state-level ‘family values’ pressure group that lauded him last year for leading African Americans in ‘clearly understanding the threat of gay marriage.'”

The SPLC newsletter also noted that, "Meeks and the IFI are partnered with Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council and the Alliance Defense Fund, major anti-gay organizations of the Christian Right. They also are tightly allied with Americans for Truth, an Illinois group that said in a press release last year that ‘fighting AIDS without talking against homosexuality is like fighting lung cancer without talking against smoking.’"

On a more personal level, Meeks has reportedly blamed "Hollywood Jews for bringing us Brokeback Mountain" and actively campaigned to defeat SB3186, an Illinois LGBT non-discrimination bill, while serving in the Illinois state legislature. According to a 2006 Chicago Sun Times article, his church sponsored a "Halloween fright night" which "consigned to the flames of hell two mincing young men wearing body glitter who were supposed to be homosexuals." <1>>>>>>>

If you view it as a vote against McCain rather than for Obama that's fine...I hope that's what most Clinton supporters end up doing. In 2004, I wouldn't say I had to hold my nose to vote for Kerry, but I wouldn't say I was super enthused about it either. My vote was as much a vote against Bush as it was for Kerry. Ironically, I like John Kerry a lot better now than I did then.

Your grudge against Obama is self-inflicted.

Barack Obama will be the most progressive President and friend of the GLBT community in history.

You will look back one day and feel badly about all of the continued exaggeration of the McClurkin incident.

Obama spoke out against McClurkin's grandstanding and homophobic remarks to the press and even on video. I've shared all of this with you and you ignore it. But ignoring does not make it go away.

No other presidential candidate in American history has ever spoken out against homophobia repeatedly inside churches except Senator Obama. None. Not one.

Barack Obama is a friend of the GLBT community. Period.

Get over it.

Will you continue to bash him right up until you vote for him as you say you will? That's a question you should ponder.

as did Dean (though not as much admittedly) and that is off the top of my head. Incidently, I also think Jackson did in 88. I also seem to remember Tsongas in 92. but of course no one did. Sorry, but if you are going to lecture the rest of us on Democratic history, you might, just might, want to be accurate.

And you've provided some quasi-historical justification for your doing so.

At least, now you've made it clear as to your intentions.

I'll keep your future posts in that perspective.

Thanks.

You claimed, falsely it should be noted, that Obama was the only person who ran for President who argued for gay rights in churches. I merely pointed out that you were flat out wrong. I realize in Obama land that becomes Clinton's fault somehow but I fail to see why I need to play by those rules.

You accuse me of making a claim "falsely". That's pretty strong words, dsc.

Please provide evidence here to contradict the statement I made:

"No other presidential candidate in American history has ever spoken out against homophobia repeatedly inside churches except Senator Obama."

Back up your contradicting that statement and your accusation.

.

He is Reverend Al Sharpton and totally in favor of gay rights. Rev. Jesse Jackson also did so. Carol Mosley Braun also did. All people I mentioned in my post BTW.

Provide me evidence that any of them spoke out against homophobia within churches when they were running for President.

And while I am still waiting for that evidence, have you ever stopped to ask yourself why is it that an African-American man who speaks out repeatedly within churches against homophobia and calls us his brothers and sisters is somehow accused vilely of being a homophobe? And why is it that white politicians who claim to be our friends when the crowd is favorable, never step into their churches and speak out as Barack Obama did? Why is that?

It's an important thing you might consider for one moment especially when the vast majority of church goers in America are white and when it was the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church that helped underwrite the anti-gay marriage initiative here in California that has now been tossed out as unconstitutional. Why is it that white protestants, white catholics and white mormon Democrats who seek elected office do not speak out to their church goers as Barack did to his? You know the answer without me giving it.

But, and I am only dreaming here, wouldn't it have been great had Hillary spoken up in white fundie churches the way Barack did for us?

it is nothing short of absurd to think he didn't do so from his pulpit. It isn't like he ran a couple of thousand years ago, he ran in 2004 and his platform was a matter of public record as is the fact he is a reverend. No, I am not going to search for something we both know is true.

Never make such an outrageous charge of essentially calling someone a liar in public and not be able to back it up. It is not only bad form, but it diminishes your credibility. I am only thinking of you.

Forgiveness is always here should you seek it.

and no I shouldn't have to cite what is public knowledge, spoken in favor of gay rights. Unless he doesn't preach at his own church, which is on its face absurd, he certainly has spoken to a black church about gay rights. But since you insist. The first debate of the 2004 campaign, Sharpton remarked about how he said in his church that he felt the church should be more concerned about the war in Iraq than about denying gays rights.

I will ignore you from now on.

You are anti-choice.

You don't like Barbara Boxer, but won't say why.

You continue to attack the nominee of our party.

Other than your christian avatar which is offensive to me, I have no idea why you participate on a progressive forum.

I'm happy you came out of the closet, even at a your late age, but you really have a long, long way to go.

when have I said I don't like Barbara Boxer. Put up or shut up. I have never, ever, not even one time, said that. Oh and here is your mother fucking link.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_2005_Oct_11/ai_n15763343

While on the campaign trail, at a time when civil rights for gays and lesbians were constantly under assault, the dapper preacher was outspoken in his support for full marriage equality for gays. That hurt him, he says now. During the contentious Democratic primary in South Carolina, one minister was caustic: "You were my leader until you said that. How can you say that?" Sharpton's response was, "How can we fight for civil rights and support constitutional bias at the same time?"

Sharpton then decided that to shed light on the HIV pandemic raging among blacks, he'd have to deal with the widely accepted antigay bias in the country's black churches. Marjorie Fields-Harris, a Sharpton associate, says, "We cannot address the problems of how it is affecting children, particularly those in foster care, until we get around to this discussion." So the staff at Sharpton's National Action Network, where Fields-Harris is executive director, began brainstorming, and an initiative was born this summer. The only solution, they concluded, was to do it "directly from the pulpit." "Having grown up in the church, I have known gays and lesbians in the church," Fields-Harris says, adding that the response from some blacks to President Bush's hard-line stance on marriage equality for gays is worrisome. "Now, all of a sudden, people want to step away and act like they've never known any of these gay members, rather than deal with the fact that we've always had gays and lesbians in the black church."

he did this in 2005 fully two years before Obama who waited until after SC to do it.

One.

It's called intellectual dishonesty and it is most immature, isn't it?

thanks. :)

- Show me where Obama has talked about gays and lesbians that he and Michelle are friendly with or talked about gays and lesbians in his family. Not the typical, "well I had a gay teacher who impacted me", but a real life story about people he's close to that shows us he completely gets it.

- Also show me where Obama has addressed gay teen issues - suicide, forced "pray the gay away" camps, homelessness, drug use - show me that he has addressed this issue and gets it.

I don't want a litany of policy positions. We all know where they stand on issues. I'd like some insight into who he is as a human being.

Thanks!

We could be twins!

He's just not above using homophobic bigots for political gain.

I also don't think he's put in a lot of actual thought on LGBT rights.

Frankly --I don't believe he even cares about or understands the issues in any real manner.

Having said that --I think he's better than McCain, who probably is truly anti-gay.

Because she hangs out with a lot of homophobic people, so their logic is very flawed.

then civil union's are the ticket.

Marriage is a church thing... a spiritual thing... or a personal commitment thing... not the province of government to begin with...

but I understand the need for same sex partners to have equal protection under the law...

the man's a politician... you want to KILL his chances? keep harping about this bullshit... just like ya did in 04.

the former not targetting the OP... I totally get it...

but the ppl making a fuss about this you are addressing? They aren't for Gay Rights any more than Hillary's pot bangers are Feminists

fuckin bots

rules they want about who they will marry. I do have a problem with gays not being able to "marry" though, as in civil union. I think they should be able to do that in every state. The way it stands now in most places they wouldn't even legally be considered their partners' next of kin, right? I just think that is wrong.

It would be interesting to hear Obama's take on it. Not in sound bites, but all of his thoughts on it. Does anyone know if he is against civil unions? I just think everyone deserves the same legal rights. I could care less what the churches do as long as they stay away from me. ;)

As far as I know, he is as supportive of gay rights as HRC. Am I wrong?

I reject all homophobic bullshit. I reject Meeks, too, although as a state rep, he did have my ward voted dry. And although I'm a big drinker, I was very pleased. When you live in a community consisting mostly of liquor stores and storefront churches, somethings got to give.

And I guess it was too much to expect him to vote against the churches...

The big issue is always the same, though--is Obama more or less supportive of gay rights than McCain?

Funny you should use that phrase. Those of us who vote on Gay issues are not voting for "one" issue. Check out this from our very own Buffy...

http://gaytheistagenda.lavenderliberal.com/2008/03/03/one-issue-voters/

However, any Dem is 1000 times better than any Repuke on this issue. Case closed.

Take that for what you will.

because it's easy for them to remember :)

that a large percentage of his supporters are.

as if the gay community only has ONE issue at stake in these elections. For quite a few years now, we've been told to be human sacrifices while a parade of STRAIGHT politicians and supporters passed constitutional amendments. . .CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS. . .reserving special rights for THEMSELVES. Moreover, I don't consider the right to serve my country in the military, the right to create a relationship which guarantees my ADULT right to choose and create my OWN family something that is simply "one issue." Nor do I consider such things as freedom from discrimination from crazy-ass fundies an unreasonable desire, or hate crimes legislation to counter brutal STRAIGHT-LED GANG assaults, or job discrimination legislation all bundled up into one issue.

For the record, I'm an Obama supporter, though his relationships with Meek and McClurkin certainly bother me. . .and for good reason. I refuse to be treated like a second-class American - I meet all the same goddamned requirements for citizenship in this country as any straight person, and the consistent failure of this political party to recognize that fact is appalling. What is worse is that both the leading Democratic candidates are quick to talk about 'equality" and yet don't have any concrete proposals to ensure that constitutional reality - so, in effect, to me, neither one of them will truly uphold the Constitution (which doesn't say anything about heterosexual supremacy).

Why I don't like Hillary? Broken promises. Lots of them. Health care, her husband's outrageous and damaging "don't ask, don't tell" policy, the failure of that Administration to pass any protective legislation and Bill Clinton's signing of that nasty-ass DOMA. Moreover, Hillary seems to have a problem even saying the word "gay". . .even in interviews with the gay press.

Oh, don't worry - I'll vote against McCain, because we already know the crazy-ass people Republicans let into the government - but I think the time has come for Democrats to understand that gay Americans are not human sacrifices "for the good of the party." Sacrifice yourselves.

what the fuck gives you the right to lecture anyone on McClursky, you homophobic jackass!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4827724

of his supporters are bigots. It has worked for him.

The only gay-rights position in which they differ is that Obama wants DOMA fully repealed, while Clinton wants to preserve the section that prevents states from recognizing gay marriages that occur in other states.

There is an argument that doing this would prevent individual states from issuing mini-DOMAs that might be worse. I do not buy this argument.

And to be honest, when I compare McClurkin to DOMA it's not even a contest. McClurkin is a closeted homosexual who spews his bullshit because he's ashamed of who he is. That's bad but it's also free speech. I wish Obama had knocked him off the event roster but he didn't and I can either accept that or vote for Clinton who claims she was involved with ALL policy decisions in her husband's presidency, during which he signed off on The Defense of Marriage Act.

DOMA, for anyone who either doesn't know or would like to forget, states:
1. No state (or other political subdivision within the United States) need treat a relationship between persons of the same sex as a marriage, even if the relationship is considered a marriage in another state.
2. The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act



So, if I have to make a choice between a candidate who let a closeted homosexual use hate speech and one who acted to put discrimination on the books, I'm going for the one who didn't limit my freedoms.

the GLBT community has ever seen to date.


An interesting moment came when he was asked a question about LGBT rights and delivered an answer that seemed to suit the questioner, listing the various attributes — race, gender, etc. — that shouldn't trigger discrimination, to successive cheers. When he came to saying that gays and lesbians deserve equality, though, the crowd fell silent.

So he took a different tack: "Now I’m a Christian, and I praise Jesus every Sunday," he said, to a sudden wave of noisy applause and cheers.

"I hear people saying things that I don’t think are very Christian with respect to people who are gay and lesbian," he said, and the crowd seemed to come along with him this time.
To hear someone defend gay and lesbian dignity and equality from a Christian perspective and to do so in the context of a largely African-American crowd, is much, much more than any candidate for the presidency has ever done. It's a break through. If it were just words, it would be one thing. But he has now done this repeatedly in front of black crowds, when he didn't have to. And he has put his specific commitments in writing in an open letter.




http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/02/obama-stands-up.html

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to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!

I'll take you as far as the door, but I'm not doing your research for you. This is a treasure trove of information if you really want to know.

http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2008/04/07/i-take-back-everything-i-said-about-barack-obama/

It starts off as an editorial (with sources cited), but as you read, you begin to see the pattern of Obama's homophobia and the homophobia among his supporters and campaign staff as well. It only gets worse and worse from there.

This site is WELL DOCUMENTED with links to SOURCES. A lot of research went into it and it clearly shows a pattern of homophobia in the Obama camp on this one page alone. There is tons more on this one site alone that document it.

There is no way you can tell me Barack Obama is not homophobic and even come close to making me believe it after reading this. My main question to you is how can you be so blind to just how homophobic he really is?

Are the people around him, that are driving his policies, in the aggregate, more homophobic than McCain's people?

He's for the repeal of DADT and DOMA. The only anti-gay policy position I can think of is that he is against gay marriage.

Full protection under the law, okay
Gay adoption, okay.
Civil union, okay.

Gay marriage, not okay. Except in California, where I'm sure he thinks it's okay.

Does that make him homophobic? Because homophobic is pretty strong.

He will not even talk to gay people. He will only talk to his homophobic bigot friends. He will not listen to gay people. He will only listen to his homophobic bigot friends. Gay people will never have any rights whatsoever under Obama. Mark my words.

Are you sober? Gay people *have* rights. Those rights need protection and expansion. Can you show me where Obama does not agree?

The link you have is to an article that has one primary assertion--Obama hasn't been talking to the gay press.

It then goes on to argue that he actually HAS, but they didn't like his answers, which some one apparently found evasive. Well, other than refusing to obey the commands of a reporter from the Gay People's Chronicle for an interview done HIS way. When it's refused, they say the campaign refused to talk to the gay press.

* He gave an interview to the Advocate, but this blogger didn't like his answers.
* He placed some ads in gay publications, but this blogger found them to be "pandering"
* He participated in the LOGO debate, but, of course, he HAD to go to that.

The rest of it--and as far as I can tell, all of the links, including one detailing the blogger revolt at Dkos over it's support of Obama, are devoted to how "nasty" the Obama supporters are and how no one should be surprised at their "nastiness" since it is top-down and how the Obama supporters are a "cult" and are taught "Hillary Hate".

It also calls DU, "Obama Underground".

I call complete and utter Rickrolling bullshit.

*The McClurkin thing was a disappointment and a mistake, but it's the ONLY thing in the article that can be called homophobic.

And you know exactly why. And it has *nothing* to do with this campaign. Disappointing, to say the least.

:)

like me

if it feels good do it- who am i to judge?

but "the base" is pretty conservative, so...


..."present"

plus, all i knew of donnie before this was that he's a gospel singer-
and gay gospel singers are nothing new

i'm finding out now how he was what? 'de-programmed?'
on some churchcamp shit?

har de har

be gay donnie, and be happy
this angst is counterproductive

i have to educate myself on what exactly donnie said; it must be a doozie

but i'd bet that obama already has a plan

Proof. Show me them.

Obama is no more homophobic than Hillary is racist. I read the linked article downthread, and it boils down to somebody in Obama's press operations is an ass and hasn't been granting sufficient access to the gay media. Considering that nobody ever lost the Presidency because of insufficient access by the gay media, I can see where this issue might not be a huge priority in the midst of a heated primary campaign.

I'm starting to wonder if Democrats are so terrified at the prospect of winning the White House that we're engaging in self-sabotage. No matter who wins the nomination, we're going to throw so much mud at the candidate that we've lost before we've begun.

so it's a no brainer.

The sad part is seeing how many bigoted Obama supporters there are here.

Instead of being ecstatic over the biggest human rights news in years yesterday, many were only concerned about how it would impact Obama's campaign.

Pathetic.

I'm voting for the Democratic Candidate. Voted for Edwards. Then he dropped out. Will vote against McCain.

You just don't get it though.

Obama isn't homophobic. His actions regarding the homophobic preacher and his ilk, however, show a cowardice on Obama's part. He has hidden behind the crucifix as do most who try an analyze their bigotry against the GLBT community do.

Cowardice is not something that I like in any politician. It could be about the GLBT issue, it could be about Arab-Israeli conflict, it could be about any number of issues.

Get over your straight self and realize that it doesn't matter whether one is straight, gay, bi, ad nauseum--

It is about basic human decency and standing up for it while disavowing those who seek to denigrate and hurt others due to their own cowardice and weakness.

Supreme Court. A vote for a right-wing Supreme Court is a vote against LGBT rights and all other civil rights.