Regardless of what Obama or his supporters want, Hillary should take the VP spot

if we can't get her the nomination (and we should still try for that). There are three reasons:

First, http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/if_clinton_wants_to_be_vp_obam.html">they can't stop her, and the millions of Democrats who voted for Hillary deserve at least that much representation on the ticket. As the article explains, there are actually two votes that are going to be taken at the convention - one for nominee and one for the VP nominee - and even if we can't muster enough support to win the nominee vote, the article makes a pretty good case that she can get the support she needs to win the VP vote (regardless of whether Obama backs her).

Second, Hillary's candidacy - especially in the last two months - has, I think, done more to advance the cause of gender equality than anything in at least 15 years, and that needs to be formally reflected by her presence on the ticket. gives a decent explanation what happened, but you can put a bit more context around her accomplishment like this: Female candidates (or even women striding for top positions in corporations, etc.) are often caught between two competing demands. If they behave in an aggressive and proactive manner (or as candidates, if they attack their opponent) they run the risk of coming off as shrill or bitchy (hence the adage, "if a man does it he's assertive, if a woman does it she's a bitch"). On the other hand, if women don't attack and aren't aggressive they run the risk of seeming passive (which isn't something people want in a leader). Hillary's candidacy, then, is significant because it shears one horn off the traditional dilemma - in the last two months Hillary's attacked and been aggressive without seeming shrill, and that by itself means a lot.

Finally, placing Hillary in the VP slot puts her in a solid position to run again in 2016 (or 2012, if Obama loses as I suspect he will).

since she favored him over Obama as Commander in Chief material.

:thumbsup:

:rofl: :rofl:

The queen does not get to sit on a throne. Period.

It's not hillary's decision. Give it up, she's been tossed on the trash heap of history where she will remain.

I went through the article you linked with a fine-toothed comb. Where is this part about changing the rules?

they're changing the outcome. The fact that the VP candidate is decided by the vote is what makes Obama's desires irrelevant.

When did that happen? In my nearly 70 years, the first time I've ever heard of that.

you are saying Obama would not have a say on whom becomes his
Vice President.....:wow:

He actually won the nomination to become a seating duck, ain't
that a bitch.... where is your head, I presume stuck in a sand
somewhere.

He has no say on whom he chooses to be his Vice President..
:rofl:

You definitely need your head examine as well as your so called
reference, Bob Backel a conservative thrash of a writer.

with being strong-armed on the convention floor by the Clintons.

Good luck with that!

I think Austinitis wins the jackson_dem award for Most Delusional Democrat.

Not in charge, but making noise to try and convince everyone they are. :hi:

How many SDs so far today? :D

....since when does the loser make demands to be on the ticket? Enough kid glove treatment - jeepers. She lost - it's time to deal with it.
I imagine that Obama won't even ask her. So that's that.

It proposes a wackadoo theory in which the superdelegates get bullied by the Clintons DURING THE CONVENTION so that they'll FORCE Obama to allow her to be his running mate.

It has ZERO basis in reality. Whoever wrote that article needs a serious fact-checking session with how things work at the convention. And you need to not grab onto anything you read that feeds into your fantasies.

and we will again.

If Obama controls enough delegates to get nominated, then he will also control enough delegates to nominate his choice for VP.

:rofl:

troll.

Just like she wasn't entitled to the presidency, nor entitled to Edwards' endorsement.

Political blackmail not withstanding.

Obama isn't laying down for the Clinton old school gun-to-the-head politics.

Close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes. No gift bag either.

Yes, the can stop her. It's not hers to take.

an opinion piece isn't going to change that.

Fail.

you hillary supporters really have gone off the deep end. She's done. If Obama wants hr for VP he'll offer it. She gets it no other way.

But, hey - maybe we should make arguments instead of just calling views that we disagree with pipe dreams?

The article just points out a possible scenario whereby her husband might be able to persuade enough people to get her consideration as a VP candidate (it would really be about Bill calling in favors, it would have nothing to do with Hillary's credentials) - it's hardly likely to happen.

So I'll insult the article all I like - if you want to insult me, have at it.

This is highly questionable. Especially with SDs who have been called Judas.

CITE IT.

She's run far too negative of a campaign. She put McCain ahead of Obama in terms of 'crossing the presidential threshold.'

Let her go back to the Senate and try to survive re-election. She's made her bed, time to lie in it.

- as

"Can't stop her" my off-white ass.

You do not know the POWER of the Dark Side.

Join me, and we shall rule the United States as President and Vice President!

He's the NOMINEE. HE gets to make that decision.

And putting her on the ticket would be political suicide - her negatives are just too high and it will energize the Hilary Haters to flock to the polls to be able to vote against her no matter if the GOP runs Mr Magoo. And Hilary is not going to be able to win the MOST important vote of all - the independents who are flocking to Obama in droves. It makes some sense, but not enough to win an election.

I really hate to say this because I have supported and loved the Clintons for years, but I'm done. And it breaks my heart to say it.

Hillary burned that bridge a long time ago.

Beyond that I don't believe that Hillary (and Bill) are honorable enough. I believe that if she were VP she would deliberately try to undermine Obama - both in the GE (so she could run in the 2012) and as President (so she could assume the office).

I do not believe that having Hillary on the ticket gains Obama anything at all. For every voter gained by adding Hillary to the ticket it would lose one because Hillary was on the ticket.

It is ultimately up to the Obama campaign who his running mate is or should be and there is absolutely no reason to consider Hillary.

Or did you not realize what you were typing?

Anyway, FAIL. You guys keep failing to see that bullying does not go down well these days. One good reason she's losing now.

Nobody owes Hillary (or her supporters) a damn thing, nor does she "deserve" a sub-coronation because the DLC's original coronation plans didn't pan out.

Bill Richardson would be a far better VP choice.

I believe the winner gets the right to make this decision. Clinton is in no place to make demands.

I read the article, it assumes alot of things - the Clinton's are over, alot of super delegates chose Obama because they could see that the Clinton machine was out of gas - if Bill makes calls during the convention it will be to try to get help paying off Hillary's massive MASSIVE campaign debts, not to try to get her on the ticket.

Why do the Clintons care if they have campaign debt? The have hundreds of millions of dollars...

but you'd have to ask them, you can be sure that with that much debt they bring nothing financially to the campaign. Hillary is done - not going to be on the ticket this year or in 2016, the Clintons ran an all or nothing campaign, as it turns out they got nothing.

from a person I'm very sure is well qualified to make it.

:eyes:

8 years as a dem ward captain and a minor in political science in University...how about you?

and being an activist isn't at all the same thing as being an analyst.

it's how politics works on the ground as opposed to how it works on a spread sheet.

nothing you can do about it.. No, thats titinitus, right?

Go pick up your paycheck, I wish people wouldn't feed these things..

Obama being the winner gets to make that choice. Hillary can not bully her way onto the ticket. It is up to Obama.

EVERYONE HAS ONE...this opinion piece doesn't make it right. Obama as winner gets to decide who will run on the ticket with him...Clinton being the LOSER has no fucking say. GET IT?


GOOD

Questioning it it is like questioning the Bible, and will send you straight to HAYULL! Or something.

:spray::rofl:

Did I miss the:

By Jayzus the Krist
Heaven
25 minutes ago

It's Gospel...Gawd Almighty has given his stamp of approval. Anyone against Clinton, is for Beeeellzeebub. The ultimate "you are with us or against us"

Her supporters have reinforced male term superiority. ex "she has more balls then Obama."

Her supporters have marginalized REAL sexism by claiming it when it doesn't apply. ex NY NOW's "the male candidates have psychologically gang banged Hillary"

I can go on and on with this.

Yes, that's good reason for every loser of every primary to just insert themselves onto the ticket where they will likely not be wanted. Do you realize how effing juvenile you sound?

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!

"If Hillary Clinton wants the vice presidential nomination, and her loyal delegates demand it, and the Clinton machine puts its full weight behind it, she will be on the ticket.

Count on it."

Obama will just have to deal with it (IF Hillary decides she wants it - I don't think she will).

Hillary for President!!!

n/t

:evilgrin:

Kathy Sebilius is more qualified and a better human being.

Hillary can interview like everyone else however Kathy just brings more to the position and would be a stronger Presidential Candidate in 2016 or 2012 if Obama would lose.

claim: "Ladies First!!!!" or Alphabetical order or "age before beauty"

As the article explains, DNC rules let her take it.

The rules do not 'let her take it' even according to your article. The rules give her an opportunity to lobby for it, but they don't 'allow her to take it'.

Have you read this article at all?

Clinton lost fair and square. It's nice that at least you realize she won't be the nominee.

He probably can't win, no matter who his VP is...

More voters turning out to vote for Barack Obama = Obama losing the election in November. Don't expect logic from me. I'm a Hillary fan.

to allow Hillary to run again in 2012? You know, I've heard Obama supporters conjecture such a thing but never actually read it straight from a the mouth of a Hillbot. Thanks for confirming your lunacy.

Oh and in the meantime, digest this: she can certainly RUN in 2012, but she'll be running against an incumbent, fool. Her chances would be even more diminished. Face it; you LOST.

choice for VP. In modern political history something like that just doesn't happen. While it is technically possible, it is extremely unlikely. Besides that, the nominee deserves to be able to pick the VP nominee who he feels will best serve the ticket. If Obama feels the Clinton fills that roll, and he may well decide that, then fine. But if he feels that it's in the best interest of the ticket to go in another direction, then that should be his privilege.

Not saying whether he should or shouldn't (I'm torn), but your headline makes no sense. If Obama does not want her on the ticket he won't offer her the slot, and she can't take it if he does not offer it. So she can't take the VP slot "whether or not he wants her to".

And your parroting it makes it no less ridiculous.

Which is unlikely. Obama is only 132 delegates away from 2025. He should get at least a slim majority of the remaining 189, which would put him about 40-50 supers/Edwards delegates away from the magic number. There are still at least 10 Edwards delegates who have yet to endorse, and they will likely go to Obama. So let's just say he gets 100 delegates between the remaining primaries and Edwards' delegates. He'd only be 32 away, and he is rumored to already have more supers in his back pocket who have yet to announce. He's been picking up at least 3 every day for the past week...it's unlikely that he won't have enough or close to it by June 3. So unless the superdelegates who have already endorsed him insist on it, he can't really be forced to pick her.

as Veep, he has earned the decision all by himself,
he has shown integrity and prowess which gives him
credibility to make his own decision.

10 or more variations of "see the article".

"I'd like to have an argument please..."
"See the article...that will be five pounds."

So "see the article" is fine for them. When someone has an argument for why the article is wrong, I'll reply.

...leaving aside that this opinion piece was written by Bob Beckel (Mondale '84,Fox News pundit and collaborator of Cal Thomas) how is the Vice Presidential nominee's name put in for consideration? Can any delegate do it? Is it a motion that can be voted up or down? At what point in the convention does this happen? Sadly, none of the answers to these questions appear to be in the article.

CITE the DNC rules that would make that wackadoo theory happen. Go ahead. I dare you.

"Regardless of what Obama or his supporters want, Hillary should take the VP spot"

What kind of fascist shit is THAT??

(I proffered this bet to another Clinton supporter, but they didn't take me up on it.)

:nuke:

Obama is a supremely flawed candidate - what the GOP will do with him will be nothing short of devastating.

I hope Hillary stays clear.

But the Clinton machine only has power as long as the party decides to give it to them. As I've been saying, my guess is that Obama will nominate Janet Napolitano for VP, and that she will win a vote easily.

It's going to be great seeing Obama choose a running mate based upon the wide number of factors that go into the creation of a well balanced, qualified ticket.

Again, for the brazillionth time, there is no Silver Medal or other consolation prize involved, embittering as that may be.

I don't know if Sen. Obama would though

And your very first argument, that he can't stop it from happening? Depends upon the Clintons again pressuring the superdelegates, but this time on the convention floor. At THIS point, in mid-May, they all probably want them off their backs and want this thing to be over (no matter what they politely say publicly, everyone is sick of the silly season), so you really think in AUGUST they're going to be ok with being strong-armed once again?

It's not going to happen.

I just read another thread yesterday by another Hillary supporter that said we as a country "might allow" a black man to be president, but that he probably wouldn't get the votes.

Between that guy saying we might allow him to be president and you saying he doesn't even get to pick his own VP, you guys are just cracked in the head and completely insulting. No wonder the racist charges still keep flying. Listen to yourselves.

its like Hillary's supporters can't stop themselves from bringing
up Racism and how dare Obama offer veep to Hillary.

They really are stopping short of using the N word on Obama in public,
who is to say they are not doing it in private.

as it crosses in front of the super tanker.

"The rules say I have the Right of Way, shear off." he shouts.

Yep, that's what the rules say, alright.

you'd love for that lead-weight duo to sink to the bottom and hand McCain the election, wouldn't you?

Just counting down the days until Operation Chaos goes back to freeperville to high-five over the divisions they caused, when we'll say sayonara to posters like you, but Obama will win nevertheless, and will NOT have that sack of cement tied around his neck.

No SD in his or her right mind is going to force anything so stunningly STUPID. She has done NOTHING for the Democrats, it's been Billary 24/7--and Obama does not need Hillary's backstabbing and plotting and dirty backroom deals and Bill's scandals and womanizing stinking up the white House.

Count on it.

Taking Hillary on as VP would be a repudiation of everything Obama stands for. She's run a miserable, negative campaign, has drawn her support mostly from women who would vote for her over anyone just because she's a woman, and racists who wouldn't vote for a black man no matter who it was.

That's not a strong enough constituency to warrant taking her on board.

Taking Hillary as VP would be "the old politics." Obama wants to create "the new politics." He's been taking a risk this entire time, not dumbing things down to people, speaking to the best of us and not the worst of us - he needs a VP who will follow suit ideologically.

He should pick Edwards.

Hillary is going to take the VP nomination to the convention :rofl:

I demand you make me VP...that's going to go over real well with the delegates :sarcasm:

If Obama wants he can prevent her from even speaking at the convention.

None of the Hillary supporters make any sense anymore. It just gets creepier by the day.

:rofl:

Your logic is laughable

She lost...usually it is the nominee who chooses who will
be the best running mate...

Not because some other candidate claims it is owed to her because her accomplishments

This sounds like silly schoolchildren who are crying because they didn't get picked

OMG this is so laughable

but really very sad...so very sad that anyone would have that logic....

There are more important things than gender equality at this moment in time
although very important ..this moment in time does not call for this to be placed
above all reason....think think think what is at stake here...

PRIORITIZE...
SIGNED A MIDDLE AGED FEMALE HARD LINE SEASONED FEMINIST....

than ever in November. That's the only ticket that makes sense now.

If the goal is to win then why not HRC if obama becomes the nominee and vice versa.

That's the main problem with her and her supporters. That she is somehow entitled to power.

I'm sure Obama is already discussing this with the SD's, and I'm sure there is a plan in place for who he wants. I wish she would just stay home and watch the convention on tv. There is nothing served by having her there.

the people have stop her once and we the people can do it again,
whatever Bob is selling we are not buying it, 'NOT THIS TIME'

Your argument and Bob's is

1) They can't stop her and

2) Gender equality.... :wtf:

:wow:


we might as well all pack up and go home then, if thats all she
is bringing to the table, her and her Super delegate can go to
hell, if she thinks she is going to hijack the Veep position
she probably has no clue as to how majority of people
feels toward her, she has run a failed campaign and she expects
Obama to hand it over to her after all the vile and vindictive
statements she has made toward him.

No Thanks....

SHE CAN TAKE THE VEEP WITHOUT ANYONE STOPPING HER! HA!!

What an ELITIST statement to make, she can take it and
no one is going to stop her, we shall see.

and co-authored a book with Cal Thomas. Shouldn't we respect his opinion?

:puke:

that will take a nonsensical article based on biased opinion to
point DUers to as reasons why she will TAKE the veep position.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
If turnips were watches, I would wear one by my side.
And if "ifs" and "ands"
Were pots and pans,
There'd be no work for tinkers!

...prize.

This can't be decided on emotion. This isn't personal. This is very serious business.

for Hillary to be VICE president? :rofl:

she has to be asked. As for them not being able to stop her...I don't know what to say. She was stopped long ago, she just can't seem to see it.

Advancing the cause of feminism? You must be joking. For months now, she has been everything sexists have predicted a woman President would be: irrational, inconsistent, vindictive. She has done more to set the cause back than anyone I can think of.

:wow:

:rofl:

This is just in fun. To any Hillary supporter this might upset, you have my apology in advance. (And I promise it would be phrased better than, "Sorry, Sweetie.")

5. Department of Heath, Education, and Welfare: Assistant to John Edwards

4. Director of White House Staff's Sexual Harassment Investigations Team (unfortunate acronym there)

3. Assistant to Labor Secretary, Hard-Working White Folks Division

2. Ambassador to Bosnia

1. Phone Bank Operator, Graveyard Shift (primary responsibility, routing 3 AM calls)

bwahahahaha!!!1

:rofl:


Welcome to DU

:hi:

Clinton campaign might try it - they are ugly people.

but i don't think democrats are interested in unity.

:rofl:

Reality, I see, is starting to slowly sink in!

This is one of the most insane threads I've ever seen in 4 years at DU

Written by a guy who was the "mastermind" behind the Mondale campaign -- an ass-kicking so complete that even George McGovern's loss looked good by comparison -- and who is now a commentator for Faux News and co-authoring books with right-wing fucktards. This is the pinhead whose strategery we're listening to now?!

Forcing a running mate onto the ticket, while technically possible, is not going to happen in a million plus years because there are enough sane people (including Hillary Clinton and her supporters) who know that doing so would be suicidal. It would end Hillary political career, as she would be something worse than a pariah among Democrats, and it would give us four more years of an insane foreign policy and a disastrous domestic policy.

Austinitis, you're being played like a three dollar banjo by conservatives who, not content with a protracted primary, now want to see an all-out Donnybrook in Denver. You are giving Dick Cheney and Exxon (quick show of hands - can anybody tell the difference?) exactly what they want. You leap over the next four years (Hillary would still be able to run in 2012) as though another 3,000 American troops won't die in the interim.

The race is over. Obama is the nominee.

Now let's get on with the business of retaking the White House and increasing our majorities in Congress.

She can just TAKE it?

:rofl:

we need a vice president that can run in 8 years for the president.

I will be disappointed in her if she does.

An self-appointed empress never takes second place to someone who was -- pffft -- elected. How crass that would be.

so we won't have to hear this stupidass crap anymore.

Again, the rules apply to Hillary just like they have applied to other democratic candidates. Just because millions of people voted for her doesn't mean she's entitled to the VP slot. Those kinds of demands are arrogant. The winner picks the VP. Period. We're not changing the rules for Hillary. If Obama wants her then he will choose her. Otherwise, this is nonsense.

And who are "they?" Are you referring to fellow Democrats as "they?"

Finally, if you've been paying attention. It still looks like a ham sandwich could beat McCain. The Republicans want Obama for the same reasons Hillaryites want McCain. Americans don't want more of the same Bush policies.

You would be right, Obama "would" lose. Is that what you want? I am so sick of hearing that nobody can stop her from being the VP!

he's a loser, anyhow.

tell Lil' Hilly 2nd Place is just the First Place Loser

And her supporters shouldn't even be considering this as an option. This from a big Hillary fan.

this isn't a lifetime achievment award. with all the crap she's pulled, i can't wait to see her ass voted out of the senate.

Yeah, I get it. Hillary is "entitled" to the VP slot. And yeah, I agree she can make a stink and force it on Obama. But wouldn't it be better to get someone who has a natural chemistry with Barack? Someone who works well with him?

Don't we want the VP and President to govern well?

She's spent a lot of time and money tearing down Obama. Why in the world would he want to bring that into his White House?

Besides, Hillary is more powerful as a Senator than a VP. She needs to stay there so we don't dilute the Senate. Pick a governor or someone else as VP.

:wtf:

than Hillary and he will solidify the win very soon.

HIS PICK will be on the ticket with him and it won't be HILLARY.

We want to win this time and we WON'T if Hillary is on the ticket.

.... in so many flavors I won't bother to enumerate them all.

HRC lost, she doesn't deserve to be on the ticket, and she won't.

This isn't a Parliamentary system pal, she LOST.

the Clinton's have misled a lot of people on what they have control over, and apparently your one of them...Not a bad idea, just not her choice.

New to politics, are you?

The VP candidate is whoever the Presidential nominee says it is, the party and others can apply pressure to try to force a choice but NOBODY can simply impose it. Same applies to second term, just because someone was VP for the first one that doesn't assure them of the nomination the second time. Candidates choice every time.

If you think she has a prayer you'd better start working on convincing someone it's a good idea because this whole "they can't stop us" bit just reassures us of why we do NOT want her in a now powerful VP seat. She's not a team player and you reduce her chances like this if your argument matters at all. Personally I think it's already too late, her time to ask for that job passed a few weeks ago when her odds were still slim rather than none and before she tossed Ayers and that garbage out there.

No.

for President, we are now to believe that if she wants the VP slot it is inevitable that she will get it. There are many reasons for Barack to give serious consideration to Senator Clinton as his running mate. The theory that she can't be stopped is not one of them.
BTW , thanks for sharing your suspicion that Obama will lose even with Hillary on the ticket. Not much faith in the Democratic Party, I guess.

put down the pipe, you are delusional.

if he took on that duplicitous scumbag. Hillary needs to tuck her tail between her legs and crawl back to the Senate. If the Senate will have her back, that is.

Hillary hurts the ticket in the general-she does not have cross-over appeal with independent voters. Also, there is always some drama, some scandal with the Clintons. I say no to such a ticket.

:thumbsdown:

And what's this "they can't stop her" bullshit? Senator Obama will decide who is going to be his running mate, not some "Austinitis" playing Democrat on the DU.

"Hillary's candidacy - especially in the last two months - has, I think, done more to advance the cause of gender equality than anything in at least 15 years"

Hillary's candidacy shamed me as a woman and a feminist. I expected more. If a man had done what she did it would disgust me equally. A candidate who has said they and the nominee of the other party are highly qualified to be president but the leading nominee of her won party is now, has nothing to offer but a speech... a candidate who has publicly smeared that nominee by trying to wrap him in Hamas, Farrakhan, Weather Underground, bombs, terror, scary unknown things...to make him look scary and untrustable...
I won't even get into what the campaign has done behind the scene to try to push those smears...
The vice presidential nominee should not have done history making smears on the presidential candidate, ready made clips for republicans to use. Some even if she runs as she praises John McCain and says it's all about experience.

Take the VP spot? Use it to sabotage?

Not This Time.

she should stay out of it and stay viable for 2012.

She'd no more viable for 2012 than she is now. In fact, she'd be LESS viable. Damn some of you guys are nuts...

That poster admitted in another thread that she voted for Nader...in 2004!

As I suspected all along.

She made noise that she may vote for St. Ralph this year as well. Charming.

Brett Favre demands to be the backup QB of the New York Giants as they face the New England Patriots in Super Bowl XLII

"The Conference Championship loss means nothing...I have the backing of hard working white football fans across the nation. The SuperCoaches must bow to my will and install me as the 2nd in command in the Super Bowl! Waaaaaah!"

Seems the only one that needs to understand the article is the OP. But no matter how many times someone tries to explain this to them it seems to go on deaf ears. Besides this thread feeling so familiar to another OP, I'm not even going to bother giving my explanation, and probably because I can't bear to see the words "see the article".