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If Obama's popular support DID collapse before Denver...

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:01 PM
Original message
If Obama's popular support DID collapse before Denver...
The only honorable response would be to draft a new candidate who hadn't been in the primaries. It would be too toxic to just hand it to the second-place candidate.

The only true path to healing and unity, in that scenario, would be to go with someone unbloodied by the last few months.

With Obama and HRC being given some dual role as something other than candidates.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. It would be up to Obama
He could ask his Pledged Delegates to support someone else.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. ? there were more than 2 candidates in the primaries ???
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I meant of the remaining two.
No offense meant to your candidate.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. some of us originally for not-the-final-two get a little sensitive
:hi:
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. As a one-time Kucinich supporter, I can, like, relate.
n/t.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I say we begin with the previous candidates. Alphabetically.
:7
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. sounds fair to me!
Edited on Sun May-18-08 11:08 PM by JoeIsOneOfUs
:D

edit to say - by last name of course!
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Of course! nt
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. A deus ex machina sort of thing? Sort of if I can't have it, I'll break it so you can't either?
Its a nice fantasy, but it would be impossible.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yes, people talked about Gore taking on that role. I liked that idea, but didn't
get too involved because it looked like Obama was really getting ahead on the math and Hillary has become a national laughingstock. But there are people who have been talking about this for awhile and you can't blame them for worrying. It really has been a horrible primary season.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. You wish.
Just shows that you don't really care about Obama; you just hate Hillary.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. I don't HATE HRC. It's just that it goes without saying
That it couldn't be legitamate to nominate her after all that's happened. It would do more harm than good, even to her. It would be just as poisonous as if the Dems had nominated LBJ after all in '68.

I respect your loyalty to your candidate, but you know as well as I that it's over for her.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. what a ludicrous thread
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is a silly hypothetical
Democrats aren't going to switch nominees midstream unless Obama literally turns out to be a child molester.

Despite some peoples' fantasies about a new Obama scandal coming out in a summer that will make the Super Delegates revoke their support giving us a brokered convention, it ain't gonna happen. Switching once you have a presumptive nominee is extremely toxic to the party's chances in November. Once you have a nominee, you're pretty much stuck with them.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I don't want a switch. I was just saying
That if there was a switch, it shouldn't just be to HRC. That would do more harm than good.

I hope there ISN'T a switch. OK?
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. My point is that I don't even know why you would post this thread
I assume people have an agenda when they post a thread with a silly hypothetical without the premise that it's a silly hypothetical.

My apologies if you don't actually have any agenda.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I don't have an agenda, at least not an anti-Obama agenda
It's about party unity. My feeling was that, if the frontrunner gets forced out, the second-place candidate should not benefit, because it would be too damaging and toxic if that candidate did, given how ugly the race became.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. I assumed you have an anti-Clinton agenda
And that bothers me. Given that this primary is basically over, I'm not a big fan of people who are still posting anti-Clinton threads. Her supporters are still pissed because they lost and rightfully so. I wish Obama fans would be as welcoming and supportive as possible. Frankly I think the people telling Clinton supporters to get out of the party are just as much trolls as the Clinton supporters who say they're voting for McCain.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I don't want the Clinton people to leave the party and I condemn those who do want that
My agenda is pro-party unity.

We need Clinton people to join us. I respect their commitment to their candidate. But they need to do what's right. And that means by starting to accept the fact that it would be poisonous for their candidate, after all that those of her supporters who were less than honorable, to be imposed at the last minute and against the wishes of the voters, as a nomination victory for her would have to be.

If the delegate math were reversed, I'd be calling on Obama to withdraw gracefully or at least to agree not to attack Senator Clinton if she were the frontrunner.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Fair enough
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. It wont...I can finally say that after seeing his support today.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. The popular support won't collapse until after the election.
By then it will be too late for Gore or anybody else.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Ah, when he gets in, and the lazy don't get ponies on his first day?
I think he's busy pointing out that his support, and even the future of the country, isn't just about putting him in office, but changing the power dynamic. His first two years are gonna take a lot of work, not just from him, but from people working for change.... which would be most of us.

To paraphrase Pogo: "We have met our savior, and he is us."
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. And I don't think it will collapse either, just offering a hypothetical
if, God forbid, it did.

It goes without saying that it couldn't be legitimate to nominate HRC in that instance. The toxicity couldn't be overcome.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. It will be a big problem
with no easy solution.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. True
If Dem leadership puts him in as the nom, all hell will break loose from the GOP side. They've already stated they have over 1,000 pages of oppo research on him and they're not going to release it until its too late for Dems to change candidates.

Obama is a product of the Chicago Dem political machine. He's never really had to run in a GOP contested race and is very, very vulnerable.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. They've got to have at least that much on HRC.
Edited on Mon May-19-08 01:10 AM by Ken Burch
Remember, if she were nominated, all the Nineties stuff would be brought back and would work. Again.

It is that fact, more than anything else, more than anything actually about her as a person, that made me uncomfortable about having HRC run. We can't win against a return of the Nineties crazies.

I think if Obama gets elected, he should appoint HRC to the Supreme Court. She'd end up with more power there, with fewer constraints, and for a longer period. It would be win-win.
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Renaissance Man Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
19. Bush-McCain
As long as McCain keeps the chimp as his BFF, Sen. Obama's popularity will continue to skyrocket.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. If switching candidates midstream a good idea, it would be a regular practice.
The fact that you're thinking it's even legitimate now is just ridiculous. Nothing about this primary, when you get down to the brass tacks, is much different than any other primary. We have one guy who is pretty much a clear winner, only in this instance, his opponent doesn't know how to lose gracefully.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. What a terrible headline I had to read coming back to check out
what's going on at GDP!

This makes me sad that someone would even write the words that you did.

I've never heard folks say that about another candidate.

But Maybe I missed something. :shrug:

:(
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. It was intended as a response to all the HRC diehards with their "he could collapse"
threads and posts arguing that that's why HRC should stay in.

It was not meant as a switch away from Obama.

I DON'T think Obama will collapse. And I don't want him to.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
32. IF... IF.....
"If" I had the stamina I'll be sleeping with 4 women every night,

"If" I can fly, I would have been in Portland yesterday for the
biggest rally ever.

"If" my aunt had a "dick" I would be calling her uncle.

:wtf: with IFs
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Well, I wasn't trying to cause trouble.
I was offering this as a general response to those who argued that HRC should stay in to the bitter end because "Obama could collapse".

I certainly don't WANT Obama to collapse, or think it will happen.

Oh, and if your aunt actually grows a dick, please don't tell us.
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