The Ones Dividing Democrats Are Those Telling LULAC to STFU (along w/ women, elderly, working class)

Today, LULAC is being damned for protesting what it perceives as disparate treatment of Latinos by the Democratic Party. LULAC stands accused of wanting its votes counted in Florida and of complaining that the caucus system in Texas isn't fair. Latinos have been branded a racist ethnic group, just a hop skip and a jump away from being their own chapter of the KKK, which, ironically, has seen its own membership grow due to anti-immigrant fever among the nation's white bigots.

LULAC is being told to STFU for the sake of party unity.

When people at Democratic Underground tried this with women, they could argue that women as a class were not subject to the same kind of discrimination that people of minority races faced (unless the women were also members of minority races). It is true that the types of discrimination vary. Women are the victims of more violent crime than any group, and they live in poverty, but minority women experience more violence and more poverty.

The elderly also face different kinds of challenges and discrimination in our society, as do members of the working class who are being driven in poverty through the economic policies of the corporate elite.

However, the nation's Latinos, with families blended from born in the U.S. documented and undocumented immigrants occupy some of the lowest socioeconomic positions in this country, along with Native Americans and the chronically disabled. Many have no civil rights, have no education at all meaning no job prospects beyond below minimum wage seasonal labor. Their children are lucky to get any schooling. They can be rounded up and deported at whim if a politician needs to score points with the electorate. They can die getting back into the country. Those that are here legally and on the road to citizenship are now facing ridiculous federal government backlogs deliberately designed to keep them from participating in this year's election---and DU has been such a screwed up place lately that I can imagine one or two people thinking "Good. That means less of them voted for Hillary in the primaries." Even when they are political refugees, they still get sent home to die. The Republican Party is using them as the new menace to boost membership in the Neo-Nazi and KKK and skinhead organizations that form the right wing ideological base that keep working class voters voting GOP--and that means attacks on Latinos, violence against Latinos. They are now vilified in the press. A person with a Latin sounding name involved in a traffic accident is the equivalent of a mass murderer. A person here legally for years with a family and business can suddenly find the rules changed and some past guilty plea to a misdemeanor can be the basis of deportment proceedings. Hell, they will deport you if you thought you were a citizen because your parents told you that you were and you try to vote and it turns out that the papers were never finalized.

Latinos are the fastest growing demographic group in the U.S. Anyone who has been to Mexico knows that when they believe that their rights have been violated they do not keep quiet. They protest loudly. They are eager to join labor unions. They are active in politics. They make informed political decisions based upon their economic best interests and the Republicans blew it when they decided to persecute them in order to score points with the white bigots within the party.

I don't know whom the people at DU think they are scoring points with when they tell LULAC to stand down and shut up. Only the GOP can be happy to see Democrats take such an insane position.

On to November!

it's all just inflammatory rhetoric.



Yeah, thanks for more of the "some-people-say" Bushit. You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.

in FL and MI. There are also people calling on LULAC to get over it, and stop embarrassing the party by asking that they be treated

fairly. They want the voters to just shut up and take it, if they want to exercise another right, the right to freedom of speech by

organizing protests they are being branded as divisive and selfish. What the hell is happening to our party?

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Or you can just use innuendo to put words in people's mouths. Fearless reporters don't worry about being rude: if you want to sling accusations, don't do it from behind some nebulous shield of 'good manners'.

esp if the threads you are criticizing claim to be pro-Obama threads (even if they are really doing his cause terrible long term damage by attempting to alienate Latino voters)

Here is the one where they are screaming and yelling...in front of the DNC

Screaming at the DNC on April 30....another protest May 31. Why is LULAC doing this?

Here is the Countdown version of the event. And yes it was indeed fake outrage.

A "spontaneous manufactured event." Shades of the 2000 recount.

The rules were broken by my state. The Clinton campaign with the help of several groups, one being a major hispanic group....are pretending no rules were broken.

Call me out by name.

Here is the one that made him the angriest.

No candidate has the right to divide a state's Democrats and cause tension.

I was called out, judge for yourselves.

Here is the one where they are screaming and yelling...in front of the DNC

Screaming at the DNC on April 30....another protest May 31. Why is LULAC doing this?

Here is the Countdown version of the event. And yes it was indeed fake outrage.

A "spontaneous manufactured event." Shades of the 2000 recount.

The rules were broken by my state. The Clinton campaign with the help of several groups, one being a major hispanic group....are pretending no rules were broken.

Call me out by name.

Here is the one that made him the angriest.

No candidate has the right to divide a state's Democrats and cause tension.

I was called out, judge for yourselves.

knew that this race would be over febuary 5th.

So, are all Latinos Mexican? Are all Mexicans hot-n-fiery? Talk about racist garbage ... this fairly takes the cake.

:rofl:
I haven't read a rant like that in ages.... mostly because I don't bother reading them.
Too many inconsistencies (I guess I'm bored tonight)
You've got passion... but then again so does Sean Hannity. ;)

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:popcorn:

The Hispanics in FL can organize against Obama, but it is called playing the race card. Sure they have the right. It just shows their ties to the GOP are still strong.

WTF?!

A group supporting Hillary is ratcheting up anger against Dems, busing people to rally at the DNC and scream and yell.

They are suing the TX Dems.

Ok, shame on me....feel better?

Sorry ... wrong place ... I lost the thread ... my bad!

It's the rage-a-hol. :(

hell who am I kidding it will torment you and you will be back at 3:00 am lol

Which is why they chose to vote in the Democratic primary "for" somebody--and I don't even care who they voted for. A lot of votes in that state were split between the two front runners. Counting them will not make a hill of beans worth of difference.

Makes you wonder if there are people on this board who are agitating to keep Florida from being counted just to fuck with the Democratic Party and make sure that we lose Florida this fall. And if we lose Latino support, then hey, that's a bonus for the GOP.

I would advise people to actually pay attention to what the net result of what some of the people posting at DU seems to be designed to do. If Obama is this close to winning and counting the votes in Florida will not change that, then this stubborn instance that Florida is illegitimate is not coming from Obama's camp.

and observes that if they are seated at the convention (which they almost certainly will be) it is only at the pleasure of the DNC are now possible stealth Republicans.

Meanwhile, supporters of one campaign continue to lie and spin...even though it will make no difference to the result. Why don't McAuliffe, Clinton and indeed yourself acknowledge that the vote was illegitimate and that the DNC were fully within their rights? Well, I suppose it would torpedo their 'popular vote' tactic.

Meantime, you aregue that Latinos in Florida who want to be counted are Republican, but they voted Democratic in the Florida primary in order to have someone to vote for...? You seem to forget that the GOP still didn't have anything like a clear winner when Florida voted; back then, Guiliani still thought Florida was going to propel him into the big leagues. Why would Florida Republicans want to vote in the Democratic contest when their own nomination was still very much up for grabs?

:shrug:

I do not think FL should be counted as is based on the Jan 29 vote.

I have been open and upfront about it.

I need to read the post again.

0. Yes, illegal aliens get a raw deal in this country in general and Latinos (who make up the majority) in particular. As it happens, I have first hand experience of this so I don't feel any need to have a guilt trip over it.

1. LULAC may want the votes counted in Florida or whatever, but it's the bottom issue on their web page: http://www.lulac.org/

2. Various supporters and people at the Clinton campaign are going on and on and ON about Michigan and Florida and have been for the last few days - even though if all the delegates were seated as is and Obama didn't get a single uncommitted delegate from Michigan, he would STILL lead Clinton by about 80 delegates and its unlikely she would be able to overcome this.

3. LULAC has fuck-all presence at DU and hardly ever gets mentioned. There has certainly not been a firestorm of controversy about LULAC on GD-P over this weekend, unless I am magically missing every thread about it - and since my ignore list is empty and I never use the hide thread function, I don't think I've missed anything.

4. You say LULAC is being told to STFU, and then follow up with tales of LULAC being called racist, how KKK membership is growing and how hard it is to be an illegal, as if GD-P were awash with condemnations of LULAC (no links to back up any of these assertions you say are being made on DU, of course).

Seems to me that you're trying to drum up support for this distracting MI/FL issue by creating a false impression that Obama supporters and/or the DNC are trashing the poor oppressed Latino community en masse. This is manipulative BS from a campaign that seems to think they own the Latino vote because they have a few die-hard supporters at one Latino PAC.

Your use of the oppressive conditions faced by the member of the Latino community to push a failing campaign agenda really sickens me.

at the moment, since I am just so fucking pissed.

Madfloridian - who has spent months arguing her case by reference to facts instead of emotional arguments - argues that they should "STOP the protests at the DNC where they are screaming and yelling like the GOP did here in West Palm Beach in 2000."

I agree. If you want to protest, do it with dignity instead of turning it into a media circus to divide the party for the political gain of a single candidate. And MadFloridian repeatedly acknowledges LULAC's right to protest. I don't approve of this kind of BS:

'"We will shut down the convention!" exclaimed Rep. Corrine Brown. "If we are not seated, then nobody is going to be seated!' See video and more info: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2109

The OP takes the disagreement with the tone and tactics of LULAC (which has never fielded more than a few hundred protesters) and paints it as if DU members were attacking the entire Latino community and showing contempt for the plight of illegal aliens. It's grade-A bullshit, manipulative of readers and disrespectful of everyone who has any personal experience of illegal immigration.

I've spent many years arguing with people on the issue of illegal immigration and making the case for reform in the face of vicious racism, economic protectionism, and what-all else. I get angry whenever anyone tries to leverage this issue for political gain instead of dealing with it as a matter of human and economic injustice which hurts everyone from the illegal aliens and their relatives abroad to the Americans whose lives and communities are disrupted by a policy which enshrines economic exploitation.

Using illegal immigration as an emotional wedge to separate the Latino community from the DNC (and by implication, the Obama campaign) is just another instance of exploiting illegal aliens for political gain. Couching such exploitation in the language of concern is the most insidious tactic of all.

:mad:

that there are going to be lawsuits seeking redress from the DNC for disenfranchising Hispanic voters in other states, why continue to

single out the Hispanic organizations?

And yes, I do have a problem with that: it's an attempt to hold the entire national party hostage to the views of a single PAC, and is grist to the mill of Republicans. I have my doubts about the neutrality of Lulac; I wonder why it is that they're not protesting the GOP's decision to slash Florida's delegate allocation by 50% with the same enthusiasm that they're heckling the DNC.

And nobody is singling out the Hispanic organizations: this single organization was criticized for its tactics, but their right to protest was acknowledged. Latino voters were not disenfranchised in Texas either, in my view: they're free to sue, but it's telling that they decided to do so after getting a result they didn't like, rather than before the primary campaign began. The rules about delegate allocation etc. in Texas were there for anyone to read and did not cause a problem in previous elections.

Voters in Texas whose districts had low weightings in the delegate selection were not treated differently because of their demographics, but because those districts had voted Republican in greater numbers in 2004 and 2006.

No matter how much you and the OP want to make out that Latinos are getting a raw deal, it ain't so. Observing that this one PAC is bending the truth and misleading voters does not constitute an attack on the Latino community.

I'd much rather single out the LaRouchite delegation to the "protest".

for the sole purpose of derailing Obama's campaign. And we all saw how in Nevada, the people here and even on the Obama official site were accusing Latinos of voting for Clinton only because they were racist against Blacks.

How come Latinos do not get to have real outrage? How come they do not get to have a real desire to have their vote counted? They need representation. They need it badly. Check out some of my journals on immigration.

I live in Texas where I have seen first hand how Hispanic people live, because of their second class status from lack of citizenship and especially because of their inferior education status. Many Latino children in school have parents who can not read and write. I have had to help my son's friends with their homework when their parents couldn't. I teach AL classes, where people older than I am are trying to learn to read because they had to leave grade school in Mexico to go to work. Go down to the border sometime. It is like another country. No water. No utilities.

I am absolutely ashamed that people who call themselves Democrats would act like this.



And then to post a photo of people violating federal racketeering laws to suppress the vote as if to imply that LULAC is engaging in something similar.

The way to bring peace is to sit down and bargain. Everyone wants to feel that their voice is heard, that they are listened to. The way to bring peace is not to tell anyone STFU--especially people who know damn well that they have reason to feel victimized.

The reason Dr. King is my icon is his movement included everyone---gays, immigrants, women, the poor as well as Blacks. He never forgot that solidarity is strength.

This us versus them attitude at DU has gotten old and ugly and it has gone way past its expiration date.

"...Latinos of voting for Clinton only because they were racist against Blacks."

No mention of how Hillary's Hispanic expert pollster said, ahead of Nevada, that Latinos are unwilling to vote for a black? And the shitstorm it ignited here? Funny that.

Here is the one where they are screaming and yelling...in front of the DNC

Screaming at the DNC on April 30....another protest May 31. Why is LULAC doing this?

Here is the Countdown version of the event. And yes it was indeed fake outrage.

A "spontaneous manufactured event." Shades of the 2000 recount.

The rules were broken by my state. The Clinton campaign with the help of several groups, one being a major hispanic group....are pretending no rules were broken.

Call me out by name.

First I've heard of the issue, and you don't answer the question really.

Direct it at the DNC wing in Florida.

That's who created this clusterfuck. The DLC'ers in both Florida and Michigan, because they wanted to assist in what was supposed to be a quick Hillary coronation, completed on February 5.

I don't know how this mess will be ultimately resolved, but I don't think these assholes (DLC hacks, not the state's voters) should get off easy for breaking the rules. The voters of those states need to place the blame where it belongs, and it's with the politicians they allowed to represent them. Not Howard Dean, and certainly not Barack Obama.

That just has "wrong" written all over it, if that's the case.

It's also a guide to where this "protest" energy is coming from, if the DLC stands to lose power, seats, and offices because of it.

"Latinos have been branded a racist ethnic group, just a hop skip and a jump away from being their own chapter of the KKK, which, ironically, has seen its own membership grow due to anti-immigrant fever among the nation's white bigots."

Right, and I guess that the "progressive" thinking of the Clinton campaign in suggesting that Sen. Obama has a "Latino" problem or intentionally pitting Hispanic voters against him just helped the situation, right?

:eyes:

people on this board are not rushing to pile on latinos. The hyperbole and misleading rhetoric in the OP is inexcusable.

Great, great work lately McCamy Taylor. I just can't say enough about how much I admire your persistence, your scholarship and your moral courage. It is awe-inspiring.

You may disagree with what the OP had to say, but it is obviously worthy of consideration. In any case, I think that it is and was merely expressing my compliments to the writer, not saying anything confrontational or inflammatory. How is that cause for you going into attack mode and making a snide remark? I find that very strange and extreme, and symptomatic of what is happening within the party today. Very sad.

Its that the OP says people are damning LULAC, and talks all about the implications of that, but who has damned LULAC? As in another post, first I have heard of it.

An OP that only gives half a story, or a reaction without a cause, just stirs the pot for no particular end that I can see.

I see a phone call from Murdoch in your near future.

I've seen no one here attack latinos or LULAC, and even if a few people here are doing that, it's not more than a tiny, tiny minority of DUers and an infinitesimal number of dems in the larger world. You are shit stirring. You are not being truthful. It's just reprehensible.

I went to the Cinco de Mayo festival in town. The Democrats (who, around here, are led by Mexican-Americans and white women) had a booth, and were selling pins. The pins they were running out of? Obama.

I'm a woman. Who am I supporting? Obama.

My parents are elderly. Who are they supporting? Obama.

Everyone in my family is blue collar. Who are they supporting? Obama.

Now, maybe in all these groups, in general, HRC has a lead. But it's not that big a lead if it exists at all. The Democratic party is not really deeply divided on class, gender, age or race lines. There are simply two candidates left who aren't that different from each other, and people have picked one or the other. Most people don't feel that strongly about either of them and just want to have a Democrat in the White House next year.

So, please stop trying to stoke up division. You're doing no one any favors, least of all HRC or LULAC.

We will stand together in support of every person's vote... or we will fall.

To bad Democrats don't get this. Too bad they think "consensus" is the same as "democracy."

Here is the one where they are screaming and yelling...in front of the DNC

Screaming at the DNC on April 30....another protest May 31. Why is LULAC doing this?

Here is the Countdown version of the event. And yes it was indeed fake outrage.

A "spontaneous manufactured event." Shades of the 2000 recount.

The rules were broken by my state. The Clinton campaign with the help of several groups, one being a major hispanic group....are pretending no rules were broken.

Call me out by name.

Here is the one that made him the angriest.

No candidate has the right to divide a state's Democrats and cause tension.

I was called out, judge for yourselves.

Florida's Hillary supporters protest at DNC, pretend they are not Hillary supporters.

As I say, judge for yourselves.

"I don't know whom the people at DU think they are scoring points with when they tell LULAC to stand down and shut up."

So often people here claim things were said or done that never were. Then they turn it into conventional wisdom.

Really reaching here and so is the lawsuit. What is it you seek? They broke the rules, so don't give me the count all the votes crap.

game plan. si or no?

Here is the one where they are screaming and yelling...in front of the DNC

Screaming at the DNC on April 30....another protest May 31. Why is LULAC doing this?

Here is the Countdown version of the event. And yes it was indeed fake outrage.

A "spontaneous manufactured event." Shades of the 2000 recount.

The rules were broken by my state. The Clinton campaign with the help of several groups, one being a major hispanic group....are pretending no rules were broken.

Call me out by name.

Here is the one that made him the angriest.

No candidate has the right to divide a state's Democrats and cause tension.

I was called out, judge for yourselves.

thanks....i should have known it was you.... :applause:

As a financially contributing member of LULAC, I felt obligated to contact the national organization and express my opinion regarding LULAC being suckered into the Miami Mafia-style politics of someone like the loathesome Mel Martinez. I would encourage others, especially Latinos to contact both Lizette Jenness Olmos, Communications Director, at 202-365-4553 and president Rosa Rosales via the national organization in DC at (202) 833-6130.

Or you can email president Rosales at PresidentRosales@LULAC.org or RosaRosales@LULAC.org

“It is a disappointment that Florida has been denied that undeniable right to vote,” said LULAC National President Rosa Rosales. “LULAC believes that every vote needs to be counted with Latino votes at stake.”

The DNC along with state and party leaders are urged to come to a resolution on this issue which could hurt millions of voters.

Florida voters should not be punished because Florida legislators, frustrated by the outsized clout of early-voting states, broke party rules when they moved up the primary in a bid for more influence."

They admit FL broke the rules, they admit to it.

They have been told FL will be at convention, but there must be consequences. As Dean said on Jay Leno the other night, when two butt in a big line you can't just let them stay...you have to more them back or others will start butting and there will be ugliness.

he said it on big ed`s show at least a week ago. it was michigan and florida who basically could`t agree to a re-vote

:hi:

Here's an idea - why don't we, as latinos do more voter registration and voter education drives? Why don't we try to nuture the growing Latino political talent in Florida instead of going along with the perpetual Miami Mafia politicos like Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Mario Diaz-Balart or milquetoast DINOS like Karen Thurman?

Florida needs to clean its house and LULAC does not need to be in a position of enabling their brand of politics. If anything, they need to send in the calvary from California and Washington and Illinois and Nueva York and Massachusetts and North Carolina and all the other states where the parties seem to have their $hit together. Maybe they can help Florida with canvassing and getting the party back in good standing.

I wouldn't mind spending money on that sort of effort. But this nonsense? It is not worthy of the LULAC members and I don't feel bad about letting them know. Many of my comadres from the women's delegate in California have joined the effort.

:kick:

Here is the one where they are screaming and yelling...in front of the DNC

Screaming at the DNC on April 30....another protest May 31. Why is LULAC doing this?

Here is the Countdown version of the event. And yes it was indeed fake outrage.

A "spontaneous manufactured event." Shades of the 2000 recount.

The rules were broken by my state. The Clinton campaign with the help of several groups, one being a major hispanic group....are pretending no rules were broken.

Call me out by name.

Here is the one that made him the angriest.

No candidate has the right to divide a state's Democrats and cause tension.

I was called out, judge for yourselves.

More:

That FL rally at the DNC was much more than it seemed. LaRouche involved. Getting ugly.

Another post where they tried to pretend they were not supporters of Hillary.

Florida's Hillary supporters protest at DNC, pretend they are not Hillary supporters.

As I say, judge for yourselves.

:rofl:

Teh awesome. :thumbsup:

The majority of voters who disagree with his candidate are irrelevant, according to them.

The great unspoken problem in this race is that Hispanic voter, long courted by the Dem Party, do not like Obama either.

Dem leadership is well on its way to losing another presidential election. Sadly, they have a great deal of experience in this area.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/25/165935/668

"Carl, take it to the bank," I said. "They will not get a credential. The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television."

"I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state."

since I am being called out, though not by name. Here are all the things I have posted, judge for yourself.

Here is the one where they are screaming and yelling...in front of the DNC

Screaming at the DNC on April 30....another protest May 31. Why is LULAC doing this?

Here is the Countdown version of the event. And yes it was indeed fake outrage.

A "spontaneous manufactured event." Shades of the 2000 recount.

The rules were broken by my state. The Clinton campaign with the help of several groups, one being a major hispanic group....are pretending no rules were broken.

Call me out by name.

Here is the one that made him the angriest.

No candidate has the right to divide a state's Democrats and cause tension.

I was called out, judge for yourselves.

More:

That FL rally at the DNC was much more than it seemed. LaRouche involved. Getting ugly.

Another post where they tried to pretend they were not supporters of Hillary.

Florida's Hillary supporters protest at DNC, pretend they are not Hillary supporters.

As I say, judge for yourselves.