Today I found out that it is true

I was chatting with at woman at work who just returned after a long illness. She is a local elected official, a Hillary supporter, and an alternate super delegate (what is that?) She said that she was part of this 'conference call' and said that there are many in the Hillary camp that actually will stay home if Hillary is not the candidate or if she is not offered the Vice Presidential candidacy by Obama. I couldn't really discern whether she agreed with that as I asked her if they cared about Roe vs Wade, involvement of the US in further wars, tax cuts for the wealthy etc that a McCain presidency would entail. She actually voiced the 2012 strategy! This is not speculation from pundits nor from Obama supporters. I let her know that I was a staunch Obama supporter. She's a nice lady and said that she still supports Hillary as she signed an agreement over a year ago and has money deducted from her account every month for the Hillary campaign...she said she has too much invested not to be a Hillary supporter.

I told her that Hillary can't depend on the Democratic party supporting her in 2012 if she is the cause of a McCain presidency. She said that the feeling that four years is long enough for healing and that the party will indeed support her. Are they delusional or am I?

if McCain wins and it would be a cold day in hell I'd request a ballot to vote for Hillary in 2012.

won't forgive. (Military lives at stake among other things.)

If so, get lost.

Makes me sick. Voting for selfish reasons like the OP mentioned is so Republican, there's not even another word for it.

And we are supposed to be led by the 'supreme court' arguement if Hill does somehow pull it out? If Hillary cared about our right to choose and the supreme court, she wouldn't be pulling this stuff.

People, it's all about Hillary. She just doesn't care.

edit to add: Perhaps she thinks she can 'save us all' when she comes in, riding like a Valkrie (cue the Wagner...). There will be nothing left to save, if the dems blow this you might as well as kiss 2010 goodbye, I mean, who would care anymore? AND we would have two more freak-ass justices on the bench, not to mention a total erosion of our rights, justice system, infrastructure, etc etc..

she won't get my vote. That would be the height of arrogance and selfishness, to sacrifice the party for her own advancement.

Hoping our country suffers with yet another 4 years of a Republican President so that Hillary gets another chance in 2012 is near treason in my book.

that four years will not be enough for "healing" and support for Hillary. I think it's important that those who are planning this understand that it will not work.

Anyone actively supporting Clinton if she's successful in dividing our party and McCain wins the GE should be ostracized from the party.

Loss of committee assignments if they're in Congress, no DNC support at any level, and Hillary should be publicly reprimanded by the party leaders.

I will not vote for anyone who goes along with that crazy plan. And Hillary's trying to sabotage's Obama's candidacy is no different than agreeing to MASS murder of US troops. MY FRIENDS
I hate this BITCH, SHE WILL NEVER IN LIFE GET MY VOTE!!!
In MY Opinion, Hillary Clinton is Worse than Bush, She is willing to let more people die in a war that she voted for, that never should have happen, just for the "chance" to win in 2012
Oh Hell no!

Obama has assumed that all will eventually hold their nose and vote Obama in the General as they did for Kerry in 04. They will not, because of the brutal harrassment Clinton supporters have suffered by the Obama supporters. That is what they are all saying.....it's been reported daily on all the MSM channels. They are setting boundaries which is healthy for them, not the Democratic Party but again, no one should be abused; it's not okay.

I do not want to offend the Clinton supporters...We need them for their activism and their vote. They are good democrats. We can not win in the general without them.

he just goes out and campaigns. People who are this over the top aren't reachable.

the hillary dead enders. most hillary people are going to move on. the dead enders that are going round and round on the teevee are not the whole picture but if it makes you happy, go ahead.

I don't know any of them who aren't now enthusiastically supporting Obama.

But then I get onto DU and think I'm going crazy. :crazy:

She has been for Hillary up to about a MONTH AGO when she realized she wasn't going to be the nominee, and will vote for Obama 100%, but was sad for a while....

There are just stupid people on the Internets who will post ANYTHING "thinking" it's going to help Hillary. :rofl:

Oh, you have GOT to be kidding!

I stayed completely out of this fight until April 25. From the very day that the DU Admins set up GD-P to be the Primary forum, I kept it hidden from my "Latest" page, and scrupulously avoided ever clicking on a GD-P post, even accidentally.

So, when curiosity finally got the better of me and I looked into the GD-P forum for the first time in months, it was naturally a shocking experience all the way around.

But I will unequivocally assert that it is the Clinton supporters who are the most strident and distanced from reality, compared to what I have EVER seen written by any Obama supporters.

And the victim shit was already getting really old over the past 12-some years of the Republicans doing it. I'll be damned if I'm going to tolerate it from a so-called "Democrat".

sw

Are you referring to the mysogynistic holocaust?

:rofl:

You guys are poor losers, pure and simple. The race is over, fall in line, like the rest of us who supported other candidates did. You **aren't** special.

:shrug: :tinfoilhat: :cry: :rofl: :sarcasm:

No such thing. Maybe an alternate delegate?

To answer your question... it's them

The party leaders are disgusted with her.

Her attacks are now beyond forgiveness.

got ActBlue bookmarked...

Keep it up.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

sorry. bug off.

Like it or not.

Good gawd. This is the first election of my lifetime that the candidate I picked from the beginning actually went on to win the nomination, but I've certainly never behaved the way some of you are, treating the election like a hostage situation.

Are you a Democrat, or a Hillarycrat?

here?

She's my senator and after this display I've had it. Whoever runs against her in the Primary has my vote and support.

Regards

She could win her senate seat with her eyes closed. Some of you are beyond silly.

:eyes:

the democratic party is grossly divided and in chaos. We are being self-destructive.

Too bad you are in for a big disappointment.

Hillary is loved in NEW YORK! No way Democrats will turn on her. Don't you realize half the population ADMIRES Hillary!

No one around here admires here - no older white woman that I know supports her. We're all OWW for Obama, or Barack Black Eagle.

You've got a small group of vocal people clamoring for her to be President. That's not enough in our system.

Imagine how strong we will be come November.

cares? The rest of the country doesn't care. they just want asshole gone and no repug there. Even Rendell said Obama will take Penn.

and start a Forrest Gump trip now...you can walk across the U.S.A. banging them and yelling YES WE WILL while pulling blue haired widows from their front door; and stomp all the way to Denver...

YOU CAN DO IT...Better get your lazy butt off the Internets and start now though :rofl:


I'll PM you my ignore list of 16 people, I'm sure they are up for it :rofl:




GOBAMA!

I'll even give her Florida and Michigan for and round up to say 20 million...I know some folks are math challenged, so I will help...


15.5% of the population voted for her, and that's rounding up.....





GOBAMA

such rancor between supporters of two popular candidates. Small group of vocal people? How about nearly half the voting population. People who are not of voting age don't count this time around.

'half the population' gives as big a shit as you. most don't. they actually have real lives off the board and will vote for the dem choice. nice try.

Just because she couldn't carry out a successful campaign for the White House.

I hope those women don't have daughters or granddaughters of childbearing age...or they can explain to them why they're helping the man who's going to abolish abortion rights out from under them.

Hillary's delusion is not serving her well if she assumes that everyone will forget the tactics she's employed during one of the longest, most historic and most memorable Democratic nomination contests in recent memory.

A loser and an extortionist possibly trying to force her way onto Democratic ticket. She's definitely taking it down if she can't have it all. Despicable.

there will be no further elections. The U.S. will cease even the pretense of democracy.

You said it - and that's the truth.

Will the Hillary's crowd selfishness be worth it to them? I guess time will tell.

COUNTRY OVER PARTY.
COUNTRY OVER INDIVIDUAL.

The next president will very likely make at least one appointment. Currently, we have 4 extremists on the bench. A fifth extremist would give them an absolute majority and allow them to destroy everything we hold dear.

Obama can shove it.

2012 is going to be too late to save this country.

we all loathed back in 2000.

Hillary really is the pits. She could, and should, stop this but her egotistical quest for power outweighs EVERYTHING!

Never. Too many dead Iraqis and US soldiers. I won't be voting for Norm Coleman, either.

Hillary WAS the most viable candidate, and her supporters (and Hillary most of all) never planned on her campaign being run so poorly, and that combined with Obama coming from nowhere to frontrunner, has to have set them back on their heels.

Instead of realizing what we all realized, and getting out with some dignity, she set out on her "vengeance is mine" tour, and decided to ruin him, if she could not be "it".. In order to do that, she HAD to be the poor little girl victim", and she had all these willing "accomplices" out here in voter-land, ready to soak up her message.. She spent the rest of her campaign, not winning, but convincing all the people who supported her, to HATE him..Nice , huh?

I think people who believe she'll somehow be the inevitable Democratic nominee in 2012 if Obama loses in November are out there. She had every advantage going into this and still managed to lose. I don't see her ever being in that position again.

... is delusional.

She started her current campaign with a lead in delegates, money, a positive image, and a swell of supporters, name recognition - all of the advantages one could hope for. But still, she couldn't win the nomination.

Should she ever run again (which, I think, is doubtful) she will leave the starting gate with all of the negativity she has garnered for herself due to her conduct in this primary. What would her chances be then?

the party leadership won't be in any position to enforce any kind of discipline on anybody.
the obama supporters will blame hillary, the hillary supporters will claim that what they said all along about obama being unelectable was true, and in 2012 the party leadership will endorse charles manson if it looks like he can win.
for all of the folks here calling for the clintons banishment from the party, it's not going to happen.
the clintons would survive that easier than the democratic party would. the two wings of the party are already in fight over who will control the direction of the party. probably neither wing wins, not much gets done and the moderate/conservative democrats find a new home as indies or in a madeover gop.

state will go blue. when Hillary loses, and she will, she will be shunned in the senate.

I can hear them now. "Just look what happens when you give power to a women and a Black man. They mess stuff up so bad, no body will ever want either one of them to run again. We got it made boys. Our place in this world is safe."

Just keep on fighting you democrats, it is ours to lose and we are sure set on doing it. I can't even find any humor or humanity in this situation any more.

I am proud to be an Obama supporter, I personally don't like Hillary, and I am a white woman. With that said, I won't call Hillary posters names, but with what I read on this board, I see it pretty tit-for-tat in the attacks. But I notice Hillary people crying about it more. I use to post here at the first of the campaigns, and as an Obama supporter I was ran off. I will probably be forced to leave again because my health won't allow me to continue observing this worrisome behavior. This is just sad. (edited for grammer)

Damn those Hillary or nothing, folks!

Not only will Hillary be close to McCain's age by then, but she'll be challenging an incumbent. Her chances will be even more remote than they are NOW!

And this is all without even considering the damage she's done to herself with this particular campaign. The party is reluctant to forget a lost Presidential bid. This sort of thing is going to reduce her to Al Sharpton territory. She'll run but no one will take her seriously.

It's time for all of us to grow up.

When my first choice candidate left the race,
I was crushed; I was angry; I grieved; I swore I wouldn't be involved,
that I wouldn't vote for whomever was left.
And 'that' was 'that'.. That someone would be sorry.

But after about a week, I realized that my preferences were less
important that the need of the country.

I took stock of the serious nature of this election,
pulled up my socks, and made an informed decision.

For the good of the country, it simply can't be
'my way or the highway.'

Who would I be hurting if I voted for another party?
Too many people to count.

I'm sorry that certain people are choosing to cut off their
noses to spite their faces. I'm sorry they don't see the grave
situation we face by either not voting, or voting for McCain.

There is abolutely no rationale behind behaving like a spoilt child.

It's not about them, it's not about Hillary or Barack.
It's about the future of our country.

I'm adult enough to know that we may not always get the candidate we want; but we need to be wise enough to know that its up to us to make sure things do not get any worse..

Not very many Clinton supporters are alternate pledged delegates for the Clinton campaign, and are involved with conference calls and such. The vast majority of the people who supported her are the type that just showed up to vote for her on election day, didn't do any work or contribute any money (obviously).

To call her representative of Clinton's constituency is grossly wrong.

There will obviously be some dead-enders from this primary but those aren't the voters the Obama team will be trying to court over.

dedicated Clinton supporters who are mostly dedicated Dems of 20 + years who have dedicated both time and their pocketbooks to the party. Most of the young Obama delegates in my state which has "Clean Elections" for local offices won't even pony up the $5 contributions necessary for local candidates to be funded. Some are even Obama delegates that are getting their way paid to Denver and are now asking for spending money. Every Clinton supporter I have ever met is a long term dedicated party member who both worked their butts off and contributed money not only to Clinton's Campaign but to others. That caller was indeed "representative". And they are indeed those that the Obama Campaign would like to convert. Those Clinton supporters are like gold to the party and they will be missed.
Not only will the party lose experienced workers and volunteers but they will lose their checkbooks as well. It may not matter now but it will.

It will be the final nail in our neo con made coffin.

luckily I do not have to make move because she has lost the nomination.

these women will maneuver themselves into irrelevancy. Her remark makes me all that more committed to get out the vote for Obama. Let's have some new voters who, with this election, will be much more likely to also vote Democratically in future elections.... elections that will not include Hillary Clinton.

Tell you friend that, as a middle-aged woman, she and her friends are an embarrassment to me and that I think they are shameful. Tell her that I voted for Bill TWICE even tho I didn't like him at all. Tell her that if I could vote for him, I want to know what makes her so goddamn important that she cannot also accept the democratic nominee. Tell her that I will not give one penny to Emily's List ever again. Tell her that I will work to raise money for any candidate that opposes any of the "Hillaryites after their betrayal of this party.

Tell her that Clinton HAD this election in hand and she was beaten by the better candidate.

He has championed nothing. He has accomplished nothing

Oh wait..He's really good at reading the Teleprompter

Enjoy supporting The American Idol fraud. Another version of Milli Vanilli

Can't wait for that.

you really are durrrty, huh? because all you have are insults. The sure sign of worthlessness.

he's so full of nothing that the majority of super delegates support him. They act in their own self interest since many of them are also politicians and want a strong presidential nominee so that they will win on his coat tails.

have you ever actually looked at his voting record? he has accomplished as much as Clinton has as a Senator. Are you familiar with his work in economically-depressed areas? are you familiar that he, unlike Hillary, didn't pander to the right wing in a vote on the IRW? She's so morally vacuous she could send thousands of sons and daughters here to their deaths for her political ambitions.

She's such a feminist icon b/c she flunked the DC bar exam? Oh but when she was married to Bill she passed in Ark and then advanced on her husband's coat tails -- that was when she was so much better than Obama? Or how about when she was a Goldwater republican? Was that when she was a democratic icon? A feminist icon?

Talk about an American nightmare. The right wing wants her to win so that they can spend the next four years attacking her and thus distracting from their own failures. And of course, she plays right along. And so do her diehard supporters. That's really the ultimate irony.

Or you get set up by the right wing and undermine and split the democratic party to have your candidate because you're sooo special you cannot support the nominee... and they laugh all the way to the oval office as right wingers come out in droves to vote against her?

You slam Obama and say he's about nothing but all you have to offer are ignorant insults. hope you don't stick around here too long.

(courtesy of Dailykoff)

CLINTON:

- NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

- YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.

- YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.

- YES on the Iraq War Resolution.

- Refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.


OBAMA:

- YES on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

- NO on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.

- Drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.

- Vigorously opposed the Iraq War and took a public stand against the Iraq War Resolution

- Signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.

She has a Republican voting record. Is that what makes her more qualified, to you?

"Obama has assumed that all will eventually hold their nose and vote Obama in the General as they did for Kerry in 04."

The thought that people would hold their nose and force themselves to pull a lever for Hillary is a bedrock fundamental assumption of her campaign. The campaign's operational conduct exposed Hillary's main attribute:

The tenacity of one who is willing to do ANYTHING to achieve their own, mostly selfish, goals.

"This is MY Presidency, and nothing anybody can do will prevent me from getting it."

...hillary and crew assumed that the repukes would crap all over themselves (which they are doing, by the way) and nominate someone that would make HER LOOK APPEALING AS A LEADER...

...oops, who's this guy from Illinois?

Hold your nose or not...ANYONE willing to continue the current program for FOUR MORE YEARS just to see one of the most divisive political figures in modern history ATTEMPT (once again) to get HER PRESIDENCY is neither worried about the state of this Union...nor a Democrat...

Hillary supporters, by either their direct votes for McCain or by their withholding their votes for Obama, end up being complicit in the creation of a more conservative Supreme & Federal court system that would further restrict or do away with abortion rights and other women's rights. It would be a sad, sad tragedy.

Every election the same argument, it is getting boring

When its gone we can talk. You can have your I told you so moment about Obama and I can have my I told you so about Row. Than we can enjoy some meatballs and laugh about it.

how old are you?

I am old enough to remember back alley abortions and the consequences of that. I'm very sorry that you are "bored".
OK, let's take Rove v Wade off the table..what bout tax cuts for the wealthy, a war in Iran? Do those issues bore you too?

nothing can happen w/o the aid of the Senate.

You have faith in a Senate that let Bush invade Iraq and allowed the patriot act and the erosion of our civil rights? If McCain wins what assurances are there that Roe v Wade is not in jeopardy?

You don't impress me as a tough player. If you were you'd do the right thing and suffer the consequences of backing a candidate who lost. Instead you threaten Democratic Underground with a republican vote.



Take your ugly, ugly post where it will be appreciated... to the McCain boards.

Roe v. Wade was a Supreme Court decision that declared that states laws regarding outlawing of abortions to be unconstitutional. That decision de facto made abortion legal. All it would take would be for 1 more conservative vote on the Supreme Court and any of the several challenges to Roe v Wade that are in waiting for a favorable court will be brought to the Court. It would only take one more conservative vote to agree to overturning Roe v Wade.

What that would do is turn the issue back to the states. Any state could restrict or outlaw abortions as they see fit. Abortion would no longer be a constitutionaly protected right.

The US Senate would have nothing to do with it. There are 2, maybe 3 Justices of the Supreme Court retiring in the near future. If a McCain wins the presidency, he'll be nominating conservative people for appointment to the Supreme Court. The Senate has a constitutional responsibility to approve judicial nominees. If the Senate has a majority of Dems, they can make an attempt to withhold approval to some attempt, but they can't just not approve any judicial appointments.

Beyond the Supreme Court, the president appoints hundreds of other federal judges. McCain has already promised to appoint judges like Roberts & Alito, very pro-corporate, strict constructionist Federalist Society judges.

Hillary has been a supporter of women's rights and the right to choose for all of her career. It would be a very sad twist of fate if her supporters end up being the cause of the elimination of that right out of spite.

I'm sorry that you're "tired" of being threatened through issues about the court. Apparantly it is not an important issue for you. I have to tell you though... that to Hillary Clinton and many of us women who are somewhat older than you who remember the days of back alley and self-induced abortions, the issue of the Judiciary is indeed important. Mnay of us have worked very hard for a long time now trying to protect that right for all women of child-bearing age.

Roe v Wade is used against women every fucking time someone wants to knock us down.

As I've said before, the Repubs will never completely end abortion in the US. It's a great dividing issue for voters and they don't want to lose those voters. Ever thought about how many voters the Repubs would lose if there was an end to abortion? Quite a few since pro lifers are the largest voting block for single-issue voting. Once abortion is illegal they'll quit voting and the Repubs will lose a nice chunk of their base. (I've actually heard that from people in the Repub party for both my state and another state-and they had some power in the state party at that.)

If you really think they'll completely get rid of it then you are the clueless one. No way they want to lose that large base.

I grew up when it was illegal and women were dying from back alley abortions. I have not forgotten. Supreme court judges are judges for life. I will vote for any Dem who wins the nomination. I don't care which one it is.

I'm tired of it as an argument too. And if anyone wants to chime, go for it. It's pretty fucking hard to get one in my state as it is-that's why everyone I know whose ever had one has crossed the border. The three places in my state actually have waiting lists to get in.

Oh, and if it's outlawed that's ok too. There's been talk that clinics will open up on reservations, on boats, etc. Thinking about it that way makes one realize that even if it's outlawed there will still be access to it.

(Hell, the reservations are closer to my house and I can play the slots at the casinos while waiting my turn. Afterwards I can buy some fireworks and discount tobacco and be on my way. And the reservations will throw the protesters, compared to what happens at clinics every day right now.)

FUCK THEM!

If we don't do as "they" like the first threat is Roe v. Wade.

I already know the doctors who preform them in my area (very under the table crap-cash only and no mention because it's a very pro life area). The difference will be that they will have more cash only business.

The threat for women like me in rural areas was met years ago. Most women in my area already have to travel and many of those are out of state. For us RvW was taken a long, long time ago.

Make those threats a bit more. I know a midwife who has already stated that she will open a clinic on a local reservation when it happens and I'm sure there will be quite a few others.

I said in that same post.

Roe v Wade has, for the most part, been dead in my state for many years now. If women want abortions they travel, usually out of state, or find doctors who will do it for cash, as long as no one talks about them.

If I were selfish I wouldn't volunteer at my local PP clinic (which I have to travel nearly 45 minutes and no, it's not an abortion provider-just basic bc). I wouldn't donate whenever I had a few dollars to prochoice causes. I wouldn't write my politicians on a regular basis, doing my damndest to be heard. What I do is not selfish.

And last time I checked I had every right to choose who I vote for and what causes I vote for. I will not vote for a Republican but I also will not vote for Obama and I don't give a flying fuck about what anyone here thinks.

My ancestors came to this land in the 1600's. They fought in the French and Indian War, in the Revolutionary War, in 1812-I think you're getting the picture. They've fought for the right for me, their descendant, to say whatever I want and to vote for whoever the fuck I want to vote for. I'm pretty damn sure that they'd be pissed if I didn't exercise my rights, which I do at every election (not just the popular presidential election). And I already know that at least one, my grandfather, would be rolling over if I "settled" once again, as I did in 2004 when I supported the nom that the Dem party shoved down my throat.

Do you vote in every single election? Do you vote for increases, for bond issues, for road improvements? Do you vote for city and county officials? I'd bet that the answer is no and that makes you a nasty, selfish little fuck who has no life but to cry like a little fucking baby in the internet.

It's sad when people call others things that they themselves refuse to admit. Selfish? Take a long, hard look in the mirror. I bet you won't like what you see there.

If you're not voting for McCain or Obama, who exactly are you voting for in November?

Another thing I get out of your posts...abortions are hard to come by in your state and you see no problem with that becoming the norm for the rest of the country. Now, just who is a nasty, selfish little fuck here?

for the first time in my life.

And only a nasty,selfish little dickwad would argue with someone who actually works their asses off to keep abortion legal instead of threatening women on a message board. So shut the fuck up and never post anything to me again because just seeing your name on a forum makes me taste a bit of orange juicy vomit in my mouth.

Oh, and take your self righteousness and shove it up your ass, then go out and find a life.


And if anyone has a problem with this just fucking ban me. It's not like women are allowed to have a voice on this forum. All we're allowed to do nowadays on DU is nod our little heads in agreement with the menfolk until our teeth rattle in our pretty little heads.

It was accessable when I grew up and women died because unqualified people were preforming the procedure on desperate women.
Look up Gerri Santoro on images.

and it is, for the most part, quite hard to obtain one in my area. Most have to drive a few hours and hope for the best. There are only a few in my state who offer the procedure and they tend to book up quickly. Besides, most from my area refuse to even try in my state or even in neighboring states for fear that their own church or a friend's church or a neighbor's church is out protesting the clinic that day.

(It does happen. I remember how a classmate in high school drove across the state lines with a fake id in order to obtain an abortion. She and her boyfriend pulled up and parked. They walked across the lot up to the door, listening to yells and chants from the line. As they walked in a woman yelled out her full name. Turns out it was her aunt protesting with a church from two towns over. Oh, and the rule about minors getting consent from a judge for an abortion? I've yet to hear of a judge around here doing so.)

I'm not all that young but I know that in my state RvW might as well be finished. And I know about the back alley abortions-an older friend (mid fifties) had one and could not have children afterward. The difference is that nowadays there will be other ways, other means. It will never be completely outlawed-never.

Abortion is the rallying cry for every Republican lawmaker. They threaten to end the "mass slaughter of innocent lives". But what happens if they finally do so? They'll no longer have that as a weapon in their arsenal. The Republican lawmakers know they are better off keeping it legal, if only to assure that the RR will always vote for them on that issue.

"feminist" would have such a dismissive attitude about Roe vs Wade. That's insane. Do you know how many poor women died before it was passed. I grew up when abortion was illegal and no qualified doctor would perform one. Women DIED. Countless women DID use coathangers on themselves. I remember. I lived in those times. It's hard for me to imagine anyone not caring about that. It's just sick.

I said that I'm tired of people using it as a threat. I'm tired of people telling me that I should vote for their candidate for one issue and one issue only. (There was a time where one issue voters were ridiculed on DU. Maybe you weren't around or maybe you were sleeping. You tell me.)

And I'm pretty disgusted with the self righteous posts on here informing me, as a feminist, how to vote and how not to vote. You've just become another person who can shove your opinions of me up your ass.

I hate stupid people who try to tell me how to think, how to vote and how to feel. I know how things are in my area-you don't. Women still throw themselves down stairs because they can't get the help they need so quit playing the fucking RvW card. Think I haven't seen it? I have.

What the fuck kind of feminist tells another woman how they will or will not vote? Oh, I know what kind-the pretend kind.


(Oh, and learn how to read what someone posts instead of randomly going off on someone just because you see your friends doing the same. Be an individual and not an automaton.)

what kind of logic are you advancing? That this problem isn't real?

I'll give you $1000 if at the end of McCain's reign Roe v Wade hasn't been overturned.

In return, if it IS overturned, you have to walk back and forth between the Capitol Building and the White House five times wearing a clapboard sign that says, "HI! I'm one of the braying jackasses who helped the GOP overturn Roe v Wade." Now that's a few words, so the sign is going to be kind of heavy.

property and you needed permission for everything. you need to have lived in the fifties and sixties to understand why people are talking about roe v wade. but you are like your idol, a selfish person and put your ego and feelings ahead of everything hard fought by two generations of women living today who could tell you scary tales. But since it wouldn't matter, I won't.

If Obama loses she will be blamed. And a large chunk of Democrats will never forgive or forget that.

Accept the responsibility. You got him nominated, now you have to get him elected. If you aren't up to the task, you shouldn't have taken the job.

if Obama is the nominee, it is also YOUR job to get him elected.

seem now to already be pointing fingers for possible failure.
If we win, I take the credit, if we lose YOU get the blame.

One gets the impression that some Obama supporters didn't really expect to win and now don't know where to go from here.
This isn't the end. This is the beginning. This was the easy part. Now it's "all in".

There is no justification for spreading unconfirmable anecdotes of divisiveness from anonymous sources, especially during this emotional moment. What's the point? If it's something other than an attempt to absolve oneself of responsibility for the outcome of this, then I'd like to hear it.

If we are going to blame some segment of Democrats if we lose, shouldn't we also be prepared to honor them if we win? Are Obama supporters out of the game now? It's up to somebody else to pick up the ball and run?

I don't know whether or not Hillary Clinton is truly advocating undermining Obama in order to run in 2012. But if she is, then she (and her supporters who agree with this strategy) will indeed be responsible for whatever nightmare America must endure with a McCain presidency. 2012 will be too late to fix things, even if she does win because we will have lost the Supreme Court by then.

That is responsibility that must be accepted.

Nevermind. Not worth it.

this board is nothing like the real world. most people aren't even speaking of Hillary. they don't give a damn.

I guess it could happen but as I've said before there isn't a darn thing I can do about their choices. All that they do is on them.

He has always said that if he ever ran for political office again, it would be for the presidency. After McCain gets through trashing the country, Gore may very well jump in the 2012 race.

If Hillary is the cause of a four year McCain disaster, she will not be the automatic nominee in 2012. The party will heal in four years? Not likely if Roe v. Wade is overturned, SCOTUS goes to the extreme RW and we're stuck in a third war. She won't be viewed as the savior, she'll be viewed as the cause. It's a dangerous strategy, for the country and for the Clinton legacy. JMHO


edited: typo :blush:

burned once, shame on you, burned twice, you get the picture.

Not part of the coalition, then fuck your opinion.

I'm a registered voter and I have every right to a opinion.

How about taking your opinion and shoving it up your fucking ass sideways?

anyway not for me. I have a long memory, very stupid to count on people "healing" in a mere four years! :mad:

I'll be looking for another party and/or another country if we get four more years of McSame because HIllary supporters think it's "her turn".

Who do these people think they are, Nader supporters? Sounds like a Nader argument to me.

We still haven't forgave Nader in the past 8 years, what makes her think we'll forgive HRC in four?

that's why so many women don't look forward to wasting their vote on another weak Dem candidate again.

is perceived as contributing to Obama's loss, there will be very very few folks in the democratic party who will give a rats ass about her in 2012. She won't even come close to the nomination if that happens.

Hillary may want to puff out her chest and all, and that's great, but she can easily overplay her hand. If she tries to force her way on the ticket, she ends up making Obama look weak, and contributes to the loss. Obama's only reasonable response to this is to throw down with her. If this hurts his chances this year, it more than doubles the damage to Hillary in future years.

if they think their emotions are high, imagine the emotions of Obama supporters if it is perceived she helped cause his loss. It won't be forgotten or forgiven. Hillary came in 3rd this time in Iowa right? She won't get out of the gate in 2012.

Real Women Buck UP.

regularly, (e-mail & snail mail) I have NEVER seen any of this stuff.I've been a registered dem all my life.

I've been a registered dem since I could vote- I haven't received this 'stuff' either. However, I am not an alternate delegate who supports Clinton. Are you a contributor to her campaign? I trust the woman I work with-she has no reason to lie to me about this especially since she knows that I support Obama.

Hillary's team is playing a game of brinksmanship. They are trying to scare the party into giving Hillary either the nomination or the VP slot. If it doesn't work, they'll have plenty to time to think about a McCain presidency by the time November rolls around. If they are real Democrats, they'll vote for Obama.