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HRC's White Man argument in KY just got deep sixed on MSNBC.

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Yukari Yakumo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:52 PM
Original message
HRC's White Man argument in KY just got deep sixed on MSNBC.
They just compared how white Democrats in KY voted in 2004 versus what they say they will do in 2008 (about an Obama-McCain vote).

Those numbers were almost identical.

Oops, there went HRH HRC's argument.

Fuck the Bush voters.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Norah was great in pointing that out
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ok, and how did Kerry do?
Edited on Tue May-20-08 10:54 PM by jsamuel
as opposed to Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. So Obama's got Kerry's floor, and has a ceiling including CO, MO, VA, ND, MT, OH, IA, TX, NM, NV,
and the Southern belt. Not saying he'll win all those, of course, but he puts all those in play. So, basically, if Obama does anything but the absolute worst he can do, then he wins the election. Great.
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PM7nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Kerry got more votes than Clinton did in 92 and 96
but still got crushed by Bush 60-40.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Clinton won KY in 92 and 96 in the GE
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/05/16/kentucky-primary-facts-and-figures.html
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That was the Ross Perot effect.
Obama will have Barr.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Ross Perot in 1996?
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Ross Perot did run again in 1996, and he got 8.4% of the vote.
Edited on Tue May-20-08 11:17 PM by VolcanoJen
Clinton's margin against Dole? 8.5%.

Just sayin'.

Edit: Just for comparison's sake, Ralph Nader got 2.7% of the vote in 2000. So yes, Ross Perot was still a player in 1996, and a significant one at that.
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Bill Clinton appealed to Kentuckians as a Southerner. Hillary would never pull that off n/t
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. In 1992, Perot got 13.6% of the vote in Kentucky.
Edited on Tue May-20-08 11:23 PM by VolcanoJen
Clinton's margin over Bush in Kentucky in 1992 was 3.2%.

In 1996, Perot got 8.6% of the vote in Kentucky. That year, Clinton's margin over Dole in Kentucky was less than 1%. Clinton's support in Kentucky actually shrank when he ran for his second term.

Hillary's Kentucky argument is laughable. Don't even get me started on West Virginia, where the effect was even more drastic, especially in 1992.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Clinton was a southern boy running against a New England rich guy and an ancient elite Senator.
Hillary Clinton is a First Lady and a liberal Senator from New York, running against an individualistic tough-guy war hero.

Yeah, those are similar matchups.
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PoliticalOne65 Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Thats not hard to do.
Clinton won 43% of the popular vote in 1992 and 48% in 1996 He won twice by a plurality 'not a majority" of the popular vote. Al Gore got more votes in 2000 then Clinton ever did, and so did John Kerry in 2004. The Bush's hate Ross Perot. Barack Obama will get more votes in the general election then Bill Clinton ever did. Unless a third party candidate comes up and gets 19% of the vote. (Ross Perot 1992) or 12% of the vote (Ross Perot, 1996). Trivia here: Ross Perot got 19% of the popular vote in 1992, but not one electoral vote. George Wallace got 12% of the popular vote in 1968 won several states outright and had a fair amount of electoral votes.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. the dem/con demographic has shifted in a decade.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Bill Clinton still has Ross Perot to thank.
Totally different dynamic, and even I'm loathe to bring up the Perot Effect when arguing with wingnuts about how awesome Bill was. :-)

Thing is, it happened. Perot split the vote. Clinton didn't win all by himself.
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. bill got 33%
perot got about 20 and GHWB got about 27....

in a two person election thats 47 to 33
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PM7nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh that won't stop them.
The Clinton camp hasn't been a big fan of facts and the truth for a while.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, yeah know, Obama can not win them all..
he will lose some states, but he can afford to, because as long as he has the majority it's all good.
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. lol
MSNBC's coverage has been so Debbie Downer. They kind of just said "Ok, we barely talked about Oregon, but now let's spend the rest of the night talking about how much Obama sucked in Kentucky!"
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. It really has been "Debbie Downer!"
And why the hell don't they ever talk about Ross Perot anymore? I mean, really. Kentucky voters are what they are. The Oregon dynamics are far more interesting, and it truly *is* a swing state.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. That was an excellent analysis
:thumbsup:
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sfam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wait...so racist voters generally vote republican?? Say it isn't so!!
Damn...here I was sure they were voting with us...
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. Except That, In General, Democrats Are Seen WAY More Favoribly Than Rethugs Today
In Mississppi, the Rethugs lost a seat in a district that Bush carried by 25% in 2004.

I'm an Obama supporter - but I do think he's got a serious problem in some areas of the country.
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