Macaullif Just Said On MSNBC That The Super Delegate Vote Doesn't Count Until.....

the convention. When Nora O'Donnell asked him if that meant that they will take it to the convention. He said - we'll see after the outcome of the big meeting coming up.

So it looks like if they don't get their way - they are prepared to take it all the way to the floor of the convention.

Floor Fight!!!!!!

I keep asking, but no one explains. What does "taking it to the convention" really mean? Will obama's superD's just up & say "Psych!"?
What is the strategy here?

jumping FROM a sinking ship and jumping ONTO one, don't you?

it was its turn!

stupid icebergs, I hate them so much!!

we would be living in a warless titanic filled world.

There will be nothing like her getting dissed by the entire party en masse and watching her make a complete asshole out of herself.

the convention?

*That's* the plan?

and escape with me....


AIN'T HAPPENING

Is that Hillary's *PLAN* for success? She'll lobby the superDel's all summer until they change their minds?

Meanwhile,

?

The issue is, does she have the votes to get nominated? Nope!

of delegates they are considered the presumptive nominee. The party will make short shrift of Hill and her lackeys when that happens. She's done.

Uh, NONE!

I hope you still intend to pay up on our wager.

a sack of shit. Worst DNC chair ever.

But if they don't have the votes, they don't have the votes.

there's always the superdelegates. But since Obama's about to win those, the superdelegates don't count either, apparently.

So, er...what does count?

THAT'S the metric. Nothing counts except 'I WIN!'

if Hillary had the higher delegate and superdelegate count.

uguu

now to put out advance staff, which is one of the reasons that the crowds for the Clinton appearances are so pitiful.

One of the MSNBC pundits last night asked one of the Hillary spokespsychos if they thought it was reasonable for Hillary to ask her base--working-class and older people--in this bad enconomy to send contributions to her when there was so little chance that she will win.

It seems that Hillary's big-money backers aren't able (or willing) to carry her, and her much-bragged-about base can't (or won't) carry her. So who is going to pay for it?

Does she expect Obama to pay her way all the way to the convention?

They'll just continue to screw all the "little people" who they owe huge sums of money to for their unpaid bills.

We know that even the most delusional Hillary supporters aren't sending her any cash, so that speaks volumes.

We know Hillary is fiscally irresponsibe, but I do expect better from her supporters.

If she is the candidate they believe so strongly can be the best president, then the need to put their money where their collective mouth is and get used to supporting her irresponsible spending habits.

They only thing she "believes" is that the presidency is OWED TO HER.

She's delusional, dangerous and poison to Our Party.

:thumbsup:

after all, they were losing as well.

does what she wants for herself 'cause she's a fuckin' lyin' whinin', idiot.

Go Hillary!!

Neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates to win the nomination. So they will need the help of the superdelegates.

Which is why we will see a floor fight at the convention.

She shows up banging on pots and pans, they vote, and then she gets to sit down and smile as Obama wins handily in the first round of balloting. She gains nothing by taking it to the convention.

Obama does not have 2025 delegates without the superdelegates. And has been said, they only start to matter at the convention. And superdelegates are soft support that can change at any time.

Do you ever get tired of spreading myths and your own wishful thinking as facts?

Nothing matters before the convention, after all. You can "take it to the convention" without a single delegate, hoping that everyone will simply decide to nominate you instead--keep in mind HRC tried to convince us that elected delegates can switch too. That's pretty much what Ron Paul's doing.

So let's go through your little fantasy. Obama shows up at the convention with, say, 2150 delegates, being a mix of elected and super. HRC has 1900. There's a floor vote. Obama wins, 2150-1900. Show's over; HRC sits down.

Just is.

Still, I wouldn't put it past her to then turn around and say, "See, I told you Obama couldn't win!"

Hillary before country! Then vote for McCain! Hey I hear you can give yourself an abortion with a coat hanger. The good news is that the Republicans may not decide to prosecute those who do for murder!

"Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary!Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary!Hillary! Hillary!Hillary!Hillary!Hillary! Hillary!"

We will too.

By then, Obama will have hit 2025 delegates and MI/FL will not be seated as is.

:headbang:
rocknatin

,

an excape door open but says things that get people speculating. Hillary has said all along that she was staying until "all the votes were cast and counted, and that includes Fl & Mi." The DNC committee is meeting on 5/31 to make a decision on Fl & Mi, and the last primary cotes will be cast on 6/3. Hillary will announce that she is suspending her campaign within a few days after 6/3.

something like - I said I would stay in this race until every vote is counted and now they have been and I realize I can't possibly win. But - I got the MI & FL delegations recognized - so I guess I did my job. Now - on to beat John McCain.

How will she bow out?

I don't know what she expects them to do. She is not going to get Michigan in with zero Obama votes, and Florida needs to be punished in some way unless we want the rules to never matter again. I don't know how she expects to win a negotiation when she has the short end of the stick and her endless counter offers show absolutely no flexibility or reason.

She had absolutely NO CARE at all about seating FL and MI last fall, because she and her idiotic campaign expected the race to be over on Super Tuesday.

Hillary's to her and all the unafilliated votes to Obama. I don't know itf that will happen, but it's under consideration.

I also heard that "Fl & Mi have already been punished because there was no campaign $$ or advertising dollars spent in their states.

I honestly don't think it will make a significant difference in the campaign when they do reach some kind of agreement on those 2 states.

already put together a package that would seat Michigan's entire delegation, but Clinton rejected it because it didn't give her 70 delegates to zero for Obama.

Clinton isn't interested in Fl and Mi voting at the convention unless she can make it work greatly to her advanytage.

GK

committee will make the final decision. Yes, I know they will try to get both candidates to agree, and I think they will. You need to take the emotion out of this and think about how negotiations work. Each side always asks for more than they will finally settle for so they hae something to give away. In the end, both sides walk away having given up something and also having won something.

I have no idea what Hillary really wants (other than the presidency) but You can bet this kind of talk is going on somewhere where we aren't privy to.

seems to be less dependent on "R"'s than on our fellow "D's". She can destroy this party but it still won't get her what she wants. There are too may others that will stand up against her wishes, and the saddest thing is, her own arrogance won't allow her to see that until it's too late.

What she is doing now is just putting out unfounded doubts about Obama. Her surrogates' "why can't he close the deal?" talking points are something like going out and slashing tires on a car, and then asking the owner of the car, "Why can't you drive this car?" Well, we could drive it just fine if you didn't slash the tires.

... when Terry obviously doesn't believe they have any. :shrug:

These are times I'm happy to be an independent liberal.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, indeed.

Thanks, Hillary, you pathetic, whining piece of shit.

WAAAAAAAHHHHHhh!

they're going to try to change thier minds by the convention?

Nothing Hillary has done lately has suprised me, but that would.

Now they're set to late August. What happens when she loses at the convention? The 2008 nomination is not Clinton's to have. God this is so painful to watch.

But once the primaries are over they need to take their arguments directly to the superdelegates. It is my hope that do the right thing and stop trying to undercut the likely nominee in public. They won't have a legitimate reason, in my opinion, to continue doing so once the people are done voting.

Right now, the Hillary mobile (which is running on Republican tactics, so we'll call it a Hummer H2) is out of gas, about halfway up the hill on I -70 heading for Denver. And poor Terry McUseless is pushing up that hill.

TERRY: "Goddammit Hillary, I told you to fill up the tank in Grand Junction!!" :mad:

and put their cards all out on the table. If you want to win for your cause...you fight.

and put their cards all out on the table. If you want to win for your cause...you fight.

Too funny, Terry. Here, have some more kool-aid, asshole.

Join it.

I heard they were looking for a snake oil salesman.

:eyes: :eyes:

A vote isn't a vote until it's cast. That goes the same for Hillary's super-delegates as well as Obama's. People can switch right up until they cast their votes.

Thus, their votes cannot be counted until the actual roll-call in Denver.

But Hillary has no leverage to change their minds.

:puke: :thumbsdown:

He's just trying to make it seem possible so that they get some good turnout at these last states (and Florida and Michigan), so that they have more to bargain with (i.e. VP or something else like that)

why do you think it would ruin Hillary's future?

He knew he couldn't win it and had the grace to get behind Carter and delivered a speech there in support of him.

Please get your facts straight. This is not the same ballgame.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/25/165935/668

"Carl, take it to the bank," I said. "They will not get a credential. The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state."

She would be persona non grata for the rest of her life as far as the Democratic Party is concerned.

The Supers will end it way before the convention...this is just more bullshit from Terry McAwful...

...and she will have effectively knee-capped herself permanently...

Your future is not in prognosticating.

...:eyes:

February-

Ickes, a DNC member and superdelegate himself, said the campaign expects Clinton to "hold her own" in Wisconsin, to win Ohio, Texas, Rhode Island and Pennsylvania and to have come close to closing the delegate gap with Obama by March 5th. He said by the end of the process on June 7th, when Puerto Rico votes, she would be "neck and neck" with Obama and would wrap up the nomination soon after. Ickes said the nomination would be settled "before we get to the floor" of the convention but that the campaign would take this fight all the way to Denver.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/16/671358.aspx

Hundreds more, I just got tired of copy/pasting-

March-

We’re going all the way to the convention- http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=1e4e7d43-ffbe-46e3-8fb3-cd28bf12ef9b

Hillary Clinton: I'm Taking this Fight to the Convention Floor- http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/7/17934/21364

Despite widespread worries among Democrats that the Democratic race has become too divisive, Hillary Clinton says she will stay in the race until the Democratic Convention in late August:

“A day after Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean urged the candidates to end the race by July 1, Clinton defied that call by declaring that she will take her campaign all the way to the Aug. 25-28 convention if necessary, potentially setting up the prolonged and divisive contest that party leaders are increasingly anxious to avoid.

“I know there are some people who want to shut this down and I think they are wrong,” Clinton said in an interview during a campaign stop here Saturday. “I have no intention of stopping until we finish what we started and until we see what happens in the next 10 contests and until we resolve Florida and Michigan. And if we don’t resolve it, we’ll resolve it at the convention — that’s what credentials committees are for.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/29/AR2008032901909.html?hpid=topnews

“You know, you can always go to the convention. That’s what credential fights are for,” she said. “Let’s have the Democratic party go on record against seating the Michigan and Florida delegations three months before the general election? I don’t think that will happen. I think they will be seated. So that’s where we’re headed if we don’t get this worked out.” http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/26/clinton-insists-dems-race-is-a-long-way-from-over-looks-toward-convention/

Hundreds more, I just got tired of copy/pasting-

February-

Ickes, a DNC member and superdelegate himself, said the campaign expects Clinton to "hold her own" in Wisconsin, to win Ohio, Texas, Rhode Island and Pennsylvania and to have come close to closing the delegate gap with Obama by March 5th. He said by the end of the process on June 7th, when Puerto Rico votes, she would be "neck and neck" with Obama and would wrap up the nomination soon after. Ickes said the nomination would be settled "before we get to the floor" of the convention but that the campaign would take this fight all the way to Denver.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/16/671358.aspx


March-

We’re going all the way to the convention- http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=1e4e7d43-ffbe-46e3-8fb3-cd28bf12ef9b

Hillary Clinton: I'm Taking this Fight to the Convention Floor- http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/7/17934/21364

Despite widespread worries among Democrats that the Democratic race has become too divisive, Hillary Clinton says she will stay in the race until the Democratic Convention in late August:

“A day after Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean urged the candidates to end the race by July 1, Clinton defied that call by declaring that she will take her campaign all the way to the Aug. 25-28 convention if necessary, potentially setting up the prolonged and divisive contest that party leaders are increasingly anxious to avoid.

“I know there are some people who want to shut this down and I think they are wrong,” Clinton said in an interview during a campaign stop here Saturday. “I have no intention of stopping until we finish what we started and until we see what happens in the next 10 contests and until we resolve Florida and Michigan. And if we don’t resolve it, we’ll resolve it at the convention — that’s what credentials committees are for.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/29/AR2008032901909.html?hpid=topnews

“You know, you can always go to the convention. That’s what credential fights are for,” she said. “Let’s have the Democratic party go on record against seating the Michigan and Florida delegations three months before the general election? I don’t think that will happen. I think they will be seated. So that’s where we’re headed if we don’t get this worked out.” http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/26/clinton-insists-dems-race-is-a-long-way-from-over-looks-toward-convention/

...too bad the supers will put her out of her/our misery waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before we get to the convention...

I knew they would kick the can down the field further.

Fine, she can be handed her loss on the first and only vote of the Convention and work on her what will likely be $40-50 million dollar debt when it's over.

Obama will continue his General Election campaign against McDubya.

is that since Obama started ignoring Clinton and focusing on McCain his popularity has gone up in both Clinton vs. Obama and Obama vs. McCain matchups. I think it goes to show that when Obama goes out to fight the General he will have significantly more sway than he is being given credit for.

Clinton on the other hand is not only appearing desperate, but is starting to lose relevance. Her biggest goal now seems to be just staying in the spotlight, jumping around saying "look at me, I'm here, you can't ignore me"

Obama is now fighting the general, he is hammering McCain effectively, he is refusing to be swiftboated, and he is showing he can take anything thrown at him. The superdelegates will look at those improving poll numbers and his efficacy and they will be looking to be on his winning team. Even if Hillary waits for the convention I think the combination of Mi and Fl being seated with a penalty (won't happen any other way), superdelegates breaking overwhelmingly to Obama prior to the convention and I suspect a distate for any more vitriolic partybusting antics from Clinton will see her marginalized at the convention.

If Clinton was smart she wouldn't take this to the convention. She would gracefully bow out, throw her support behind Obama and in doing so take on the mantle in which she could really be effective and that would be as the new lion of the senate. If she's intent on fracturing the party she may well find herself being marginalized in the senate.

But it's her ego,

GK

GO Hillary!

GO Hillary!

He has always said to keep repeating something often enough so people will start believing it is true. Clinton didn't give a rat's patootie about Florida and Michigan until she didn't win the title of presumptive nominee on Super Tuesday. Now, like a spoiled child, she wants it her way or no way.

If she turns it into a convention fight and ends up with the nomination she will do nothing but prove to the people saying she's in it for Hillary right. I am tired of the lies, the temper tantrums and playing the victim.

I am a few years younger than Hillary. I never supported her. I am a feminist supporting Obama. He was not my first choice but I listened and decided he was more electable.