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Hillary just did it. She threw the Democratic party under the bus.

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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:31 PM
Original message
Hillary just did it. She threw the Democratic party under the bus.
I just watched that sickening display she gave in FL. She just legitimized every single Republican talking point in regards to FL and MI. She is determined to convince voters that the Democratic party is trying to disenfranchise voters in FL and MI.

She pushed the "the vote reflects the will of the voters" meme... and then said it was too bad for Obama that he took his name off the ballot. Unfortunately the everyday(non political nerd) voters aren't going to look into the details of the FL and MI situation. The media of course isn't going to do it's job and show the clear hypocrisy between Hillary pre SC and Hillary post SC in regards to FL and MI.


She makes me sick. She seriously makes me ill. How dare she claim that FL and MI were open and fair elections.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Recommended - n/t
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Alhena Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Disagree about Michigan- anyone can see how ridiculous her position is there
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
53. Florida also very unfair. We don't run primaries on name recognition alone. If that
were the case, no campaigning would be needed....just get the list of candidates settled and vote everywhere in one day.

I don't mind seating some of Florida's delegates because it's really not going to matter much...but to say Florida's primary is fair is another thing and is not right.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #53
155. best point I've heard yet - and Hillary had the name rec, and surrogates in Florida
In both states, Michigan and Florida, she had powerful entrenched
surrogates.

It was those surrogates who pushed for this mess.

In Florida the republicans helped.
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JBear Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #53
180. She talks about taking the votes away...
but she failed to remember that taking votes away from African Americans has been going on - in Florida - for a lot longer than her campaign. What remedy do we propose for the will of the people who did not vote in the primary because they were told specifically that it would not count? Doesn't this harken back to Jim Crow?

The ONLY fair way to have the will of the voters of Florida and Michigan included at this point is for them to hold a re-vote. PERIOD.

This just sounds like another republican saying that the rules don't apply to me.

:popcorn: Flame on :popcorn:

:bounce:
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #53
301. Obama was the only one who ran ads in Florida.
n/t
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
260. I have relatives in Ohio who didn't know that Obama's name wasn't on the MI ballot.
And I'm talking about well educated, reasonably well informed people (although they get most of their news from the MSM).

I don't know that the nuances of the situation are really that well understood by most Americans.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:33 PM
Original message
Oh you'll get over it
She'll do something else tomorrow to make you have another cow. You all have quite a herd so far huh? When is the unity campaign going to begin? Right after the I hate Hillary with every ounce of being phase ends?
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. you have to be a complete ass to defend her on this issue.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. Who is defending who?
I'm just amused at you clowns and your seemingly never ending farce. Go ahead, fake some more outrage, I need another laugh.
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Maria Wr Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
131. Don't belittle the asses
I like donkeys. Not HRC, though. She threw me under the bus. Eight Belles, anyone?
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AgentCarrie Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #131
140. speak for yourself, my ass could us some belittling! :o)
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #140
174. LOL!
Edited on Wed May-21-08 05:28 PM by junofeb
A welcome to DU coming out from B'ham!
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #140
256. Roflmao - Mine too! Dayum it's gotten big. :-D eom
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
194. You would know.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. She is trying to bring the party a loss in the GE at this point
There's no other reason for this rhetoric.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. oh good lord - the kool aid drinkers are so prevalant around here
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
43. Tastes better than hemlock
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
124. Every day there's one post in GDP that stands above the rest
This is that post for today.

Koolaid tastes better than hemlock. Yep.
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mythyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #124
192. yep. the hemlock
nt
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
45. I prefer beer, personally.
Could you find a new cliche? That one's a bit shop-worn.

Thx.

- as
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #45
108. perhaps - but it still works
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madwivoter Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
52. I forget...
which supporters are the kool-aid drinkers again?

:rofl:
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
252. Well, given the phrase's origin...
...in the cyanide-laced kool-aid the followers of Jim Jones drank, the term obviously means to follow their leader to the bitter end and into the clutches of death. That being said, I'll leave determining which campaign's followers this better suits as an exercise for the reader.
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #52
280. The ones
who don't agree with whoever says it first?

I'm confused too.:shrug:

I got in trouble yesterday for laughing in GD-P - I couldn't help it.:rofl:
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madwivoter Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #280
286. Can't really help the laughing...
sometimes it's pretty funny in here :)
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whopis01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #52
298. The other candidate's supporters are. It is always the other candidate's supporters... n/t
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
166. Can you explain why she's doing so much damage otherwise?
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #166
176. no of course not-just cliche insults
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #176
199. are you answering for me? I would prefer if you not do that, if you do not mind.
I am not a Hillary supporter. I just continue to be amazed at the gullability of the Obama-supporters.

oh well, I am sure Obama is just as amazed.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #199
217. What gullibility?
Edited on Wed May-21-08 07:22 PM by Dr_eldritch
You're saying that being outraged over blatantly vindictive and divisive behavior is being 'gullible'?

Gee, I was really pissed how Repubublicans illegally invaded Iraq and wiretapped Americans... I must be 'gullible'.

:eyes: :shrug: :eyes: :shrug: :eyes: :shrug: :eyes: :shrug: :eyes:


English isn't your first language, is it? Now, do you want to answer the question, or let someone else answer it for you again?
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #217
218. "what gullibility"???? - well - read the OP/
Yes - I am saying that.

and - the Iraq invasion is such a separate issue. It does not take away from your gullibility on the Hillary talking points.

- No - I do not need any one to answer for me - particularly with such distorted reasoning. I can distort my own arguments.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #218
223. I did. I'm beginning to think you have no idea what you're saying.
Do you care to explain how people are being 'gullible'? Can you do that?

Other than that, yes, distortion seems to be your game.

Enlighten me.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #223
224. no - I don't care to - just reread the thread
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #224
227. In other words you can't.
Thanks for playing.

:hi:
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #227
228. in other words - if you did not understand it the first time, you probably wouldn't if
explained again . . .

you are, quite simply, not worth the effort
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #228
238. You're putting a lot of effort into not making the effort.
Where, for instance, is this 'explanation'?

I can play all night, you might as well give up on pretending you know what you're talking about.

Not for my sake though... I find it amusing.
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #218
281. Don't worry
I think you are distorting your arguments okay on your own too.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #217
219. and let me add - I am not a Hillary supporter
I am just anxious for the mature Obama supporters to show up.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #219
271. You are a stealth Republican
With the logic you spew it is clear to me that you are a Limbaugh Republican. You're here to sew discord and cause disruptions.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #271
274. yeah right . . .
try again - I have been on this site since 2001. I have NEVER voted for an R presidential candidate. I just happen to disagree with you - something your immature mind cannot handle. "How dare anyone disagree with me . . . obviously a republican . . . . harumph"
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #166
193. no I cannot - she is not my candidate
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KSinTX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
249. Yummy
Blue Kool-Aid Punch

Kool-Aid® Blue Moon Berry Mix
Smirnoff® Raspberry Twist Vodka
Sour Puss® Raspberry Liqueur

I'll let you bring that last ingredient to the party.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #249
296. Stoli's better than Smirnoff.
:hi:
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have no problem with Hillary as a person...
it's this undermining the party and progressive policies for her own career advancement thing... that I hate.


Drop the stupid argument... it was BS when fox news pushed the "they're just a bush hater" theme when someone criticized bush...


and it's still a stupid argument when Hillary/McCain supporters use it against democrats.
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
184. I do. I have a problem with professional liars trying to manipulate
this nation for personal gain. She lost me when she opened her mouth too many times.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #184
196. ALL politicians lie.
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #196
206. Well then, that's reassuring.
There really isn't any purpose to voting.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #206
222. C'mon - you knew it all along.
Carter might be an exception.
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #196
282. This time YOU
amaze me.

Usually I just try to ignore what you put out there but this one is "special."

You are reaching really deep in the bottom of the b.s. bag this time.
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deadmessengers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:37 PM
Original message
Why shouldn't we hate the Hilary/Bush/Mccain axis?
Edited on Wed May-21-08 01:39 PM by deadmessengers
All three of them share a common goal at this point - to destroy the Democratic Party and everything it represents. Of couse, they all have different reasons for doing so, but hers, I would dare say, are the least honorable. She's like a petulant child throwing her toys out of the playpen because she didn't get what she wanted.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
122. yep.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
28. How about when she stops acting like a freakin' Republican?
When that happens, get back to me.

- as
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. how is it you never contribute anything substantive?
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
32. it's unethical to undermine the presumptive nominee of your own party
Edited on Wed May-21-08 01:49 PM by crankychatter
your sneering and snyde condescension is inappropriately directed

Herd?

MF DID YOU JUST SAY "HERD?"

this desultory and dismissive language is also directed inappropriately

perhaps you should examine your conscience?

or... maybe I will give you my address and we can talk this over nose to nose, eh?

The "herd" is following the WAR PROFITEER FUNDED candidate, OVER A CLIFF

snarky, no life havin', lemming MF.

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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
56. "May address"? Did you just say "May address?"
Damn did you just have another cow?? A cult member calling someone a lemming? Hmmmm! A know it all as well as you know all about my life. Whose cabinet will you be serving in?
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. Ooh. Typo flame.
Bitchin'.

- as
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deadmessengers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Wow, don't see too many of those anymore. n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
63. Party unity happens when fucking hilary stops telling
all her fucked up lies..but you knew that.

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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
67. She's trash.
She's a poisonous influence on the party. So no, I'm not too eager to unify with her.


As for her supporters, I'll unify with them when they admit that Hillary has lost and agree to stop fighting her battles and egging her on. If you really want unity, that's the price.


Til then, we'll just keep answering the attacks.

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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
71. Does this mean Hillary is absolved of all wrong-doing?
Since Obama and his supporters are unable to unite with the people who are being used by Hillary, and believe in the lies she's told them, it's then their fault?
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #71
80. I'm not in the business of absolving anyone of anything
I've been for General Clark since before the 2004 election and still am. I hope whomever the nominee is finds a place for him somewhere. As I have posted all along I will energetically (and possibly fiscally) support the nominee of the (D) party as I have done since 1980.

I'm not looking for fault, I'm just enjoying the live show here.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
94. It begins when she bows the fuck out. To ignore this insane woman at this time is not wise. n/t
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
127. When McCain is elected because of HRC!
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #127
171. God damned right!
this whole fucking drama she is creating is gonna get that motherfucker elected...then see where all the 'HRC" supporters show up.

I'll bet 50 bux it starts with an 'f' and ends with a 'c'
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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
168. The unity campaign will begin
As soon as Hillary stops trying to change the rules that she signed on for, and as soon as she stops trying to divide the party.

Hillary Clinton is doing THIS and the only problem you have is with some Obama supporters being frustrated by her hypocrisy and goalpost-moving?
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razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
245. Never Boss,
so we let McCain take the helm of the USS Titanic, whats the difference at this point?
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genna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
264. No I think her base is white voters comment is worth a lifetime of disdain. Her lack of an apology
IS PRICELESS.

The fact that she waited until she was out of Kentucky and West Virginia to make the sexism argument doubles my disdain. Add the thought that she didn't make that base argument until after she left North Carolina TRIPLES IT.

BHO can unify and compliment her on her decision to take it all the way to Denver if that is what he wants to do. I have the right to criticize her for as long as she is on the national stage and justifying it by feeding into people's pre-existing resentments.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
278. Yo, Mama's boy
Hillary is a sore loser.
Bama boy
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
291. Hey BOSSHOG -
Wow - I am totally taken aback over the "hate" ... Have an idea, what if everyone just sat down and had some:



Wouldn't life be so much easier?

Hope you are having a nice day. :hi:
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. She's a postmodernist.
Truth is relative to whatever she wants it to be.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. she is despicable.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
273. Worse than dispicable. But if I used that word on DU I'd be banned.
:evilgrin:
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. She lost me when, rather than reject racist voters, she embraced them to win in November.
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NotThisTime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. She's poisoning the Democratic Nominee & the Super's are allowing it & Dean is allowing it
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
38. ITA. Dean should remind the FL voters that Hillary said NOTHING...
in 2000 when their votes were stolen.
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VeraAgnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
93. Oh, like Obama was in Dade County
counting chads..................

Get a grip will ya!
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #93
102. Hillary's trying to fool FL voters into believing she's a champion of voters....
when the fact is that she is not. She could have used her power to speak out against vote fraud in 2000 and 2004, but she remained silent, indicating her support of what was happening.
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
240. Actually, I think someone should take an ad out in all of the newspapers
featuring the document about the primaries that Hillary's campaign signed and agreed to. . .

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genna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
267. SD are asking for this but not declaring their affliation. Dean MUST BE NEUTRAL in the primary.
If he advocated for one of the other, it really would be unfair.

It is for the elected Democratic officials to gain a BACKBONE and risk being alienated from one side or the other. You already know based on the way Ted Kennedy, Richardson and NARAL were attacked for supporting Obama that there will be heat on that side. John Lewis had a fairly direct and straightforward challenge placed at his door step when he said he'd vote for HRC.

Now is the time to be vigilant and defend the DNC and Democrats against this bogus Zimbawee argument of disenfranchisement. If she cared about this and wanted to have some credibility, she would not continue to employ or accept help from those who were on the DNC Rules Committee or any former DNC Chair who stripped the votes from a territory in the past on the same grounds.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #267
283. Why can't Dean take the heat and step in? nt
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. The party needs to find a way to count the voices of the people in those 2 states.
Millions of people voted, and to side with party fat cats over the regular people who are just trying to add their voice and participate in the choosing of the next

President is tyrannical.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Love the Mao sign
:rofl:
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
72. ...

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Hola Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #72
87. It's all about her
Change & Dream vs. Hillary

I don't see how this wins you a point.

What if Bill had run a campaign in '92 with the theme - 'Bill'. A real winner there... :)
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Not trying to win a point. Just pointing out the obvious fact that the artwork from
both campaigns is a bit...retro.
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chitty Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
92. The first one sucks.
The second one is OK.

And the Hillary one is just ridiculous.

Is she gonna star in a remake of Metropolis or something?
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #92
98. That pic of her is missing the hammer and sickle. n/t
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #98
297. Wrong group
she is part of the same cabal as bush and cheney. only reason clinton the first was allowed to be elected was to give the repukes a way to use impeachment to discredit the democrats. even then they couldn't use most of his misdeeds because it either exposed their own crimes or crippled the cia drug running programs. I suspect that the neocons and the Dino's like the Clinton's have a real flag that they are under but not the communist one since they are closer to the opposite elements during that time period.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #92
100. That would be cool.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. and what about the Millions of people who didn't' vote in
FL and MI because they were fully aware of the rules and what the vote was for (non existent delegates.) They had a right to know whether or not the election was for delegates BEFORE the primary.

Hillary can't claim the vote was accurate...because it was NOT accurate.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
73. I feel for them, but Obama didn't lift a finger to make a revote happen.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #73
119. What does your unproven assumption have to do with it?
Even assuming you'r right and Obama didn't "lift a finger to make a revote happen":

You just agreed with me that people stayed home because they were aware that the vote wasn't going to be used for delegates.

Voters have to know what they are voting for. This means the MI and FL primary results are suspect and shouldn't be used to determine any delegates.

Thanks for backing me up.




By the way... the candidates shouldn't be organizing primaries or pushing for rule changes once the process begins... that isn't how free open elections should be run.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #119
197. Obama isn't backing you up.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #197
243. o...k.... evidence??? I'm still waiting. nt
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #73
136. No, he just said he would follow the party's rules
whatever they decided.
Because he acknowledges that the DNC are the rule makers.

I believe they were given permission for a revote and turned it down.

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nachoproblem Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #73
187. Neither did Hillary
She was content to campaign all by herself after agreeing with the other candidates not to do precisely that. Meanwhile, how those states would pay for and mount a re-vote becomes everybody else's problem. HC has nothing to stand on with this, especially in Michigan. Bringing the people an election where only votes for her are counted is in no way enfranchising anybody. And the argument that the other candidates are at fault for following the party rules they had all agreed upon is just laughable.

Hillary has a right to stay in the race as long as she wants to, but all the arguments for changing the rules are morally and logically bankrupt.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #73
234. It wasn't up to Obama to decide about a revote..
WTF are you talking about?

Obama always said he would follow the rules. Hillary wants to change the rules at the end of the game.

Are you really this fucking dense, or what? :shrug:
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
130. Hillary is a liar...
I listen to talk radio every morning and they were having conversations about if and how we should vote, and they had various political experts and callers were asking if their vote would count since their candidates were not on the ticket and they said no.

Callers also asked if they could do a write-in and they said the ballot would be tossed so they said it didn't matter because the delegates wouldn't be seated...
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
181. What millions? There were record turnouts in both states.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #181
242. Ohh so you have evidence that no one stayed home....
due to being told that the primary votes wasn't going to delegates? I would love to see your evidence that everyone voted who would have voted had they known that Hillary would push to change the rules.


(it doesn't matter if it's millions or 1 person) If anyone stays home do to being told the vote wasn't going to count...then the vote shouldn't count.
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miktor von doom Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #242
269. lemme see if I follow
...so since a lot of informed Democratic voters understood that the DNC wasn't going to certify these primaries, and yet those voters voted anyway, their voices don't count? Congratulations. That is the point. You have a 'right' to vote for your leaders. You do not have a 'right' to vote for your preferred party's nominee for anything. I, personally, refrained from the FL primaries for just this reason: My vote wasn't going to count.

THE DNC IS IN THE BUSINESS OF ENFORCING THE RULES. FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN BROKE THOSE RULES. (Despite the fact that they were BOTH warned against breaking them, and did it anyway, and they BOTH voted to ratify these rules a year and a half beforehand)

Don't blame Howard Dean. Blame the state party delegations. I do, and I've been a proud Florida liberal since I understood the meaning of the term.

When Howard Dean was thrown the bone of the DNC chair after 2004, I don't think the appeasers responsible for that understood just how seriously he'd take that responsibility. Their loss is our gain.

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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. 50/50 would be good and fair...
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chitty Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. Millions of People
didn't.

They stayed home.

They were told it wouldn't count.

What about them?

Just fuck em?
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Yotun Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
47. Millions of people voted knowing their votes wouldn't count. Those were the assumptions under which
those two elections took place. You can't come now and say that a result of an election under assumptions A is representative of a result for a completely different election, than never took place, under assumptions B. It is completely logical and sensical to believe that had the people of those two primaries knew that the results of their elections would count, a lot of Obama supporters especially in Michigan, which otherwise didn't bother, would show up to vote.

Secondly, at the end of the day, this is an internal decision making process of a private party. If the rules of the party said those two states should not have moved their primaries, they must be punished for doing so, otherwise you disenfranchise all the other states which played failry.

And finally, tyrannical disenfranchisement is saying that the votes of everybody in caucus states don't count, and that the election will be over by February, implying all the states after that are meaningless.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #47
62. She obviously had no power to enforce anything of the kind. The rules committee
can snuff out all those people that voted in MI and FL.
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
165. This is why people voted in voters in Florida's primary ....

2008 Presidential Preference Primary Ballot Questions
last updated 11/16/07
The items below are scheduled to appear on the January 29, 2008 ballot in conjunction with the Presidential Preference Primary.

State Amendment | County Referendum | Cocoa Beach Referendum

STATE OF FLORIDA
(Voted on by all registered voters in Florida)
Amendment 1
Ballot Summary:

NO. 1
CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION
ARTICLE VII, SECTIONS 3, 4, AND 6
ARTICLE XII, SECTION 27 (Legislative)
PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTIONS; LIMITATIONS ON PROPERTY TAX ASSESSMENTS

This revision proposes changes to the State Constitution relating to property taxation. With respect to homestead property, this revision: (1) increases the homestead exemption except for school district taxes and (2) allows homestead property owners to transfer up to $500,000 of their Save-Our-Homes benefits to their next homestead. With respect to nonhomestead property, this revision (3) provides a $25,000 exemption for tangible personal property and (4) limits assessment increases for specified nonhomestead real property except for school district taxes.

In more detail, this revision:

(1) Increases the homestead exemption by exempting the assessed value between $50,000 and $75,000. This exemption does not apply to school district taxes.

(2) Provides for the transfer of accumulated Save-Our-Homes benefits. Homestead property owners will be able to transfer their Save-Our-Homes benefit to a new homestead within 1 year and not more than 2 years after relinquishing their previous homestead; except, if this revision is approved by the electors in January of 2008 and if the new homestead is established on January 1, 2008, the previous homestead must have been relinquished in 2007. If the new homestead has a higher just value than the previous one, the accumulated benefit can be transferred; if the new homestead has a lower just value, the amount of benefit transferred will be reduced. The transferred benefit may not exceed $500,000. This provision applies to all taxes.

(3) Authorizes an exemption from property taxes of $25,000 of assessed value of tangible personal property. This provision applies to all taxes.

(4) Limits the assessment increases for specified nonhomestead real property to 10 percent each year. Property will be assessed at just value following an improvement, as defined by general law, and may be assessed at just value following a change of ownership or control if provided by general law. This limitation does not apply to school district taxes. This limitation is repealed effective January 1, 2019, unless renewed by a vote of the electors in the general election held in 2018.

Further, this revision:

a. Repeals obsolete language on the homestead exemption when it was less than $25,000 and did not apply uniformly to property taxes levied by all local governments.

b. Provides for homestead exemptions to be repealed if a future constitutional amendment provides for assessment of homesteads "at less than just value" rather than as currently provided "at a specified percentage" of just value.

c. Schedules the changes to take effect upon approval by the electors and operate retroactively to January 1, 2008, if approved in a special election held on January 29, 2008, or to take effect January 1, 2009, if approved in the general election held in November of 2008. The limitation on annual assessment increases for specified real property shall first apply to the 2009 tax roll if this revision is approved in a special election held on January 29, 2008, or shall first apply to the 2010 tax roll if this revision is approved in the general election held in November of 2008.

YES
NO

http://www.brevardelections.org/08pppamend.htm



Voters who didn't own property had NO REASON to vote in the primary.
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
257. So, caucus states and small states don't count, but rule-breaking states do?
n/t
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redstate_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh, she's done to most superdelegates.
She couldn't BUY one now if she could.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
101. She's already tried to buy one. n/t
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VeraAgnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. Okay, we now know she is going to take them both
100%....................What does Obama do now?
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redstate_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. She's not getting both at 100%. That's ludicrous
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. WTF are you talking about?
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. She's not getting those votes. Those 2 states broke the rules. If they are counted
the way they stand it is unfair to the other 48 states that played by the rules. Hillary is going to be toast. Dean will not give in to this. If he does, he doesn't deserve to be head of the DNC.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
57. how many OTHER states "broke the rules?"
I know SC did! so what shall we do?
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Heathen57 Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #57
183. According to the rules,
If the Dem leaders opposed the moving of their primary and it passed anyway, they would get an exemption from the rules. FL's problem is that they didn't even put up any fight at all. Only ONE Dem opposed the move, the rest voted in favor. And they were laughing about it.

Florida's Democrat leaders in their arrogance in thinking that they are somehow better and more important than the rest of the nation sealed their voter's fate in the primary.

Try blaming the ones responsible rather than someone playing by the rules.
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tmoore411 Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #57
303. That would be Iowa and New Hampshire that also broke the rules n/t
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VeraAgnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #39
97. New ball game.
The hold-out super delegates and the pledged Clinton super delegates will revise the rules via the committee. It has been decided behind closed doors.

You'll see soon enough.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #97
114. Oh goodie -
revising rules via committee behind closed doors! Now, do y'all have conference calls to decide what kind of crap you'll post anonymously on political forums or are you just a freelancer with your "inside information"?

And how many delegates have y'all decided the candidates need to get to today? One billion, zillion, trillion? Yeah, yeah, it's been decided behind closed doors and I'll see soon enough.


:rofl:
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #97
134. Rove and Rush think that's a swell idea.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #134
272. And this is exactly why we are doing it.
We are doing exactly what they want. Wait until McCain is sworn in. Limbaugh will brag about how his plan to divide the Democratic Party worked to perfection.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #97
212. That is certainly my fear. n/t
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
54. bzzzzt. It's been made clear through comments of the Rules
and By-laws Committee that the likely upshot of their meeting to decide this, will be that Hillary gets her delegates and votes out of MI and Obama gets the uncommitted and that FL pledged dels will get half a vote. Sorry, that doesn't do it for hill.
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nachoproblem Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
188. Here's my question
About Michigan specifically: if we presume that all Hillary's votes in Michigan will be counted, what about all the votes for "undecided." Meaning, all those people who came out for the primary in Michigan knowing Hillary was the only name on the ballot, and nevertheless deliberately DID NOT vote for her? Would those votes be subtracted from Hillary's total in Michigan, or just ignored?
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genna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #188
268. I don't know, but I think those votes should count against her since the voters had the otion
I don't think this state should count merely because his name was not on the ballot.

Now that I stopped presuming, I think MI has the worst argument for having a delegation seated. If his name was not on the ballot how could he win or have any votes.


I think the announcement to those voters in MI and FL about the vote not counting is enough to say they were being steered away from the ballot box.

Elections are supposed to free, fair and open. MI failed that test. FL's protest was heard loud and clear, they wanted to be first. They had their chance to do a re-vote. Their governor said they wouldn't pay for it. FL failed.

What more can they do to comply? Nothing.


Even with those arguments, I think the delegations should be seated 50/50 so they have no impact whatsoever to the ultimate outcome. They chose their course of action and they have to live with the consequences. Their voters should be treated in the same manner by both parties. The Republicans already stripped those delegations by 50%.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think you should take a break from politics
you are taking this waaaaaay too seriously.

I live in Florida - and have felt disenfrancised way before Hillary ever started talking about it. And I am far from alone in this feeling.

I am not going to get in to it - way too tiring. But what you read on this site is motivated by politics. There are some who go overboard based on their particular candidate.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
195. hey
. . . someone thinking for themselves. This is no place for that.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #195
205. ok - you are right . . . .
HILLARY IS NUTS! WHY IS SHE STILL AROUND! RULES ARE RULES!

wow - I do feel better having done that. Thanks for the intervention.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hillary to Florida: If I dont get your votes, you shouldnt vote for the Dems
Edited on Wed May-21-08 01:45 PM by NightWatcher
and this is good for the party how?

Supers, where are you?

on edit: I removed the quotation marks, but the message was evident to anyone who was listening. She was poisoning the party's future by trashing the party to the crowd about how THEY were disenfranchising Floridians.
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AllexxisF1 Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. SHE SAID THAT?
Edited on Wed May-21-08 01:51 PM by AllexxisF1
HOLY SHIT.

Can anyone verify that she said those words?
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. People don't use quotation marks properly.
I should say they use them to purposely deceive, but will withhold judgment for now.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
70. Typo Flame!
Rad.

- as
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. Link?
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. It's time for Al Gore to endorse Obama
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
133. She Wouldn't Care
as much as I hate to say it, Hill is reminding me of Bush. Disregarding the rules, the voters, the caucuses, the little states, etc...she's living in her own little bubble and doesn't care what others think or say.

Al has stated he doesn't want to be the party elder and fix this mess. He has totally removed himself from politics.
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southern_belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. she makes me sick!
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
18. Where the hell are the superdelegates??
Only the Democratic Party could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by allowing this despicable person to poison the Party and destroy the eventual nominee!!

GET OFF YOUR ASSES, SUPERS!!
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Xenocrates Donating Member (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. The Party needs to adhere to the rules set forth at the start of Primary Season
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. she is so manipulative
Hillary disgusts me.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. I thought Obama said he will win with Florida and Michigan included and seated.....
...so, what's the problem?
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
40. You thought wrong...
she and Obama want to different thing. Obama wants FL and MI to be seated but not based fully off of the vote(you know because people who were paying attention stayed home) Hillary wants to change the rules to get herself extra delegates. She wants everyone to think that when Michigan gave 0 votes to Obama and Edwards that the vote represented the will of the voters.
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muryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. Which she wont get
They will go with the MI compromise and count FL half. Or both with count as half, the new magic number will be 2138 (super delegates fully counted, pledged at half)
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #40
88. But if we did count Michigan and Florida as-is....

Give each delegate a full vote
Give none of Edwards delegates to Obama
Give ZERO Michigan delegates to Obama

Then Obama needs to win only 45% of the delegates in the remaining three primaries where he is favored to win, heavily in two of them, to end up with the majority of elected delegates.

Yes, it would be wrong, which is why it won't happen. But even if it did the other poster was correct that Obama still wins.


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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. Such drama!
I'm ready for my closeup, Mr. DeMille!

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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. "It will all be over by February 5th".
Her hypocrisy knows no bounds. She didn't give a shit about the states of Ohio or Texas. She didn't even have campaign offices in those states until March!!!
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jespwrs Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. She is sickening.
This crap is so selfish! The more she deceives people into believing that the democratic party and Obama are disenfranchising people, the lower our chances in FL and MI get in the fall.

She deserves to be hammered for this.

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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
37. And she wonders why her negatives are so high...
;(
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
41. And meanwhile Obama throws the other half of the party under the bus,
by refusing to count their votes. He makes me sick.:puke:
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Link...
I want a link to your claim that Obama has refused to count the 16 Million Hillary voters. Hell, I want a link showing that he has the power to nullify 16 million voters. SO please link up or take your claims and shove em.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #46
68. Linky Linky,
Edited on Wed May-21-08 01:51 PM by SIMPLYB1980
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #68
78. Yeah, Big Tent Democrat doesn't have any agenda at all.
Totally objective, that one is. :sarcasm:

- as
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #68
113. Those links don't support what you said. Try again.
The first link is an opinion piece about an AP headline that implies that Obama is fighting the seating of MI and FL... but the only reference to Obama's position that it shows is that Obama considers the nominee to be the person who reaches 2026 as per the rules...

The second one cites an unnamed source that claims Obama doesn't want a MI revote. Key words "unnamed source." Again you haven't proven that Obama doesn't want MI represented let alone that he is "throwing away the other half of the parties votes."


So, once again please show me a link that Obama is trying to throw out half the parties votes. Evidence.. not speculation about an AP headline and not unnamed sources...

What has Obama OR his campaign done OR said to throw out half the Democratic parties votes. Evidence please....
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #68
167. That absurd link is not related to the subject being discussed. Your post is something of a joke.
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #68
248. Except the TalkLeft article was wrong. Obama did not declare victory last night.
So moot point. Axelrod said today that they are willing to meet the Clinton camp more than halfway on Michigan and Florida.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #68
251. i'd love to be on a ballot too, running unopposed
i'd claim victory too!

woo hoo! Michigan loves Hillary over undecided!!!!I would too!!!
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #41
75. You're dangerously misinformed or you simply aren't paying attention
Obama NEVER said he didn't want those votes to count.

Don't you get it yet, or do you just have your fingers in your ears? The state leaderships of MI and FL broke the rules by moving their primaries ahead of schedule and were penalized. Hillary and everyone else AGREED the votes would not count. Voters were TOLD they would NOT count.

Why should Obama allow an invalid and FLAWED election where he, as an ETHICAL participant, took his name off the ballot along with several other candidates?

Dirty Hillary left hers there so she would have some trick card to play.

The DNC needs to bring out the hook. She can't be allowed to take down the Democrats with her lies and her fanatic-inducing rhetoric.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #75
84. I think you are dangerously misinformed. Since when did Democrats turn into
the party that doesn't want all votes counted.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #84
96. Unfair votes should never be counted
The votes in Florida and Michigan were unfair and non-representative. It was widely known that the votes in those states wouldn't count, Obama was not on the ballot in one (volunarily removed after Michigan broke the rules and moved their primary up), and no Democratic candidate campaigned in those states prior to the voting.

What is an election without a campaign?


A farce.


Florida and Michigan darwinned themselves out of the primary. Sucks to be them.

If they had the money, they could have had a re-vote that would have counted. But the money was not forthcoming.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #84
117. You can't even stop repeating rhetoric. When did *ANYONE* say they didn't want votes to count?
Can you even acknowledge why MI and FL are not being added to Hillary's totals right now?

Are you aware that Hillary signed a pledge agreeing that she would abide by the ruling for MI and FL not being counted? That's not made up. Can your mind reconcile the fact that that agreement exists, or are you simply trying to pretend it doesn't exist so you can allow yourself to believe her talk about disenfranchisement?

This is where I don't get the Hillary supporters. You truly have to ignore facts to continue to believe what she's saying now.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #84
121. you really kicked the crap out of that strawman
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #84
213. This is not the party that doesn't want ALL the votes counted
Edited on Wed May-21-08 07:10 PM by Hansel
It is the party that, since FL and MI broke the rules, are just as concerned about the people who stayed home because they didn't think that their votes were going to count and, in the case of MI, because their candidate wasn't on the ballot.

The elections were a farce and many people besides those who voted are being disenfranchised because FL and MI leaders acted incompetently and arrogantly. They created the mess and their "solutions" for the mess they made are so obviously slanted in Hillary's favor it is sickening. How about a little objectivity, and yes, democracy from these "leaders" while this is sorted out. They should be advocating for ALL of the voters, not just the ones who voted in favor of the candidate they want to win.

This mess is their fault. Not Howard Deans or the DNC or Obama's. And they should pay for it in the next election. And in the mean time, these states' leaders need to get a grip, start acting a little more professionally, and find a way to make sure all of their voters are enfranchise. Their one-sided advocacy is repulsive and frankly, just plain undemocratic.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #75
91. Make up your mind, does Obama want those votes to count or doesn't he?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #91
186. Actually Make Up Your Mind
Hillary can't win.
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nachoproblem Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #91
191. How the heck should we know?
The only thing we know is that it was the DNC officials' decision not to count them. Hillary and Obama could both appeal it (or not) if they chose, but neither has the authority to countermand that decision.
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TooRaLoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #75
103. This campaign has forever ruined her in my eyes.
I'm sure I'm not alone. And I loved Bill... not so much, now. It's hard for me to connect the Bill of today to what I thought was a pretty decent presidency. I still believe he did a fantastic (not perfect, by any means) job.

Strong women who can break barriers are people we still need to see emerge. I just wish we would have had better options than Hillary. Guess we'll see who comes next.

She epitomizes selfishness. It's abysmally disappointing to me. I saw her change her position on things to win votes in the Senate, and I never trusted her again. I'm sad to feel like she's proven my convictions right. To me she is just a big ladder climber and she'll go to any lengths to get where she's going.


I strongly, strongly dislike and distrust her. As a woman, I feel betrayed and embarrassed by her.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #103
148. Me, too.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #103
226. I still love Bill
I still think Hillary was treated harshly and unfairly up until Obama took a solid lead. And I defended Hillary for years but her bogus negative attacks on Obama piled up and I couldn't take her dirty tactics anymore. If Hillary had run a strictly positive campaign she'd have the nomination by now.

I've wanted her to quit since the Ohio/Texas primaries which were supposed to be her last stands. They said she'd leave if she didn't win both big. She can't win, and she's known that for months.. All she's done since is hurt the party. If she doesn't put victory for the party in November first she must be in it entirely for herself and her own ego.

She's earned her way onto a very short list of people I hate.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
90. Half the Democratic party resides in Florida and Michigan?
who knew?
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
170. Yeah? What about my sister's vote?
She lives in Michigan and didn't go to the polls because she was told the election wouldn't count? Same with her husband. Both of them would have voted for Obama. So screw them? Is that what Hillary wants? It almost seems to me like she purposefully tricked her opponents supporters into staying away from the polls.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
185. Lol.... You Aren't Serious
and nobody else should treat you as a serious person.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
42. the real reason for your despair:
Obama is ahead. In votes, in delegates, in superdelegates, in popularity, in chances to beat the ancient 272 yr old McCain.

Hillary has a small, very determined, scary, and probably quite disturbed group of supporters, to whom facts are inconvenient, honesty is a sign of weakness, and integrity is what you seek in steel bridges, not people. But, more than 50% of Americans simply are not interested in politics. They can be swayed, their opinions can be shaped, and they are all too willing to accept something at face value, because, "She wouldn't lie to me, would she? It must be true!"

What you rightly fear is that she is still close enough to Obama's numbers that a big misstep by him, or out and out lying be her can sway some numbers. What if the convention will decide the candidate? She is evil and vile enough to push and threaten. She has already been accused of having her people try to bribe supers, and there have been complaints about veiled threats if they support Obama.

And that leads directly to your despair. If she somehow manages to screw Obama out of the nomination, by dirty, underhanded, vile behavior, her actions will have been no different than the GOP's in years past. It puts her on par with the GOP and that makes voting in November very troubling.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. I love Howard Dean but..
He's really going to have to do something and fast to keep us from tearing eachother to shreds. I dunno what it is but something needs to happen - and fast.

Maybe he needs to bring Al Gore in to mediate. :shrug:
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
179. How are the going to MAKE her stop?
Short of extreme rendition?

They CAN'T make her stop...

I wish someone could, but it's a free country...
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
50. Hillary loves this party.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. Hillary loves HILLARY first and foremost. HRC and Bill are megalomaniacs of the First Order.
:nuke:
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. I disagree but respect your opinion.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #65
79. Back at ya little devil! :-)
Edited on Wed May-21-08 01:53 PM by ShortnFiery
Are you a Sun Devil? ASU?
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Maria Wr Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #65
135. Hillary is in for the Clintons
not the democratic party. If you don't vote for her, "Screw 'em"
She has no problem in ripping up the party. Just watch and see.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
51. People are NOW being educated that The Clintons have a "race baiting" history that goes back
to Arkansas in 1989.

Politics is so much a performance art. I think Bill Clinton is a genius in that regard ... and I think he (Bill Clinton) believes in *absolutely nothing.* ... the Black Community loves him and I think, "for God in Heaven, what for? ... I distrust hugely Senator Clinton ... We been exploited so many times by democratic politicians ... they can't get elected without us but it seems that the day after they election they hand out a few jobs. We seem to get "pleased" too easy ... these matters are larger than race ... I think we want a President who has a vigorous intellectual curiosity and decency and humanity." Randall Robinson "An Unbroken Agony"

Adherence to the rule of law is not something normally associated with the Clintons. Moreover, racial and ethnic disrespect, intimidation, exploitation and hate have always been a fundamental clinton tactic and the reflexive use the "N"-word and other racial and ethnic slurs, an essential element in the clinton lexicon. When the "first black president" and his wife ran Arkansas, the NAACP sued them for intimidating black voters at the polls.

Conversely, the Clintons' refinement of the DNC drag and drop is, arguably, one of the more insidious and repugnant applications of their special brand of race-hate politics.

Clinton racist code words

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oRwZQLdhEw

Adherence to the rule of law is not something normally associated with the Clintons. Moreover, racial and ethnic disrespect, intimidation, exploitation and hate have always been a fundamental clinton tactic and the reflexive use the "N"-word and other racial and ethnic slurs, an essential element in the clinton lexicon. When the "first black president" and his wife ran Arkansas, the NAACP sued them for intimidating black voters at the polls.

Conversely, the clintons' refinement of the DNC drag and drop is, arguably, one of the more insidious and repugnant applications of their special brand of race-hate politics.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
55. She the country under the bus with her vote for Bush's war.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
59. I saw one of her supposed supporters (a regular voter) on Faux yesterday repeating
every lie Hillary said today and before, and she said that as a result, if Obama is the Dem. nominee, she'll vote for McCain saying Obama tried to block people from voting in MI and FL. :eyes:
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weezy2736 Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #59
95. I woke up with a migraine today.
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Ouch...
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #95
118. I can see why...
That's GOTTA hurt! :hi:
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
60. I'm really starting to hate her.
(And I've been trying really hard to resist getting to that point.)
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #60
76. I certainly don't hate her, but
I've lost a lot of respect for her, unfortunately. It's really sad.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
61. "the vote reflects the will of the voters" and "too bad obama took his name off" are contradictory
how can the will of the voters be understood when they are not given the option of voting between the two?
how can the will of the voters be understood when they are told their vote doesn't mean anything?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
66. Der Büssing-NAG Nutzkraftwagen
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Barrymores Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. !!!!!!!!
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
77. I think the average voter will understand how ridiculous her position on Michigan is
Hell I think the average 1st grader would call that dirty. It is like sitting down to play poker for fun with your friends. A friendly game, everyone agrees the chips are just chips. Then after you win you decide you really need the money so you demand that everyone pay up. It's a joke. It doesn't take a political nerd to know bullshit when he sees it.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #77
151. Good analogy.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
81. I see hilary's claw down there under the BUS..
I see our Democratic Party Soaring with Obama and his team(us too) at the Helm!
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
82. She'd be 100% correct if we ever had a legit primary in either state.
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
83. She deserves no respect now. Obama needs to run over her a few times in the bus. The supers
need to stab the vampire in the heart with their stakes. She is treacherous.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
85. I just saw it too, how pathetic
But that's the Clintons: always reward bad behavior. :hi:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
86. References to where she initially agreed on Four State Pledge
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #86
173. They don't care that she is a liar...they wont look at THAT linky
they are probably repuke's anyway.

kkkarl gets em cheap.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
99. Worst of all, she is trashing the Democratic Party for no purpose.

Even if she got those primaries to count as is, with no 50% voting punishment, no MI delegates for Obama, etc ... Obama will still end up with a majority of the elected delegates by June 3rd.

So she is telling the people of Florida not to vote for the Democratic Party -- unless we make her the nominee, of course -- to presumably let her get her way in Florida and Michigan knowing full well it wouldn't change anything.

If she doesn't know full well ... you know, we had a CIO where I work once who was stupid as a bag of hammers. Everyone likes to talk around that issue, "he didn't have people skills", "he lacked technical expertise in certain areas", "he wasn't well organized." But the simple truth is, he was just fucking stupid as hell. Proving that people actually can have incredibly successful careers, even in something as difficult as information technology, despite being mental midgets.

If Hillary can not actually add up the numbers to see that she loses even with Florida/Michigan counting fully and as-is, then she has to be as stupid as that CIO we had.

So we're left with one of two possibilities: she is out to destroy the Democratic Party, or she is an idiot.

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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #99
105. Her purpose is to wreck Obama's chances
and it has nothing to do with 2012. Has a lot to do with her $109,000,000.00, though.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
104. It's truly bizarre she's now this gungho,
fight-to-the-death-for-every-vote warrior when it was her signature on the original agreement that disenfranchised the voters in the first place.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
106. Okay. I hope this also takes her out of any run in the future...
So the amount of time after the convention is the time we have to unite. Should be able to do it! :bounce:
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
107. Has anyone else noticed how extraordinarily dyspeptic the Obamites are?
Edited on Wed May-21-08 02:31 PM by Perry Logan
They're always announcing how sickened they are, or threatening to throw up. And they use the "vomiting" emoticon constantly. Hillary can barely flutter an eyelash without one of them barfing all over GD-P.

Match this up with their dyspeptic way of expressing themselves and their dyspeptic view of the world (e.g., half of all Democrats are racists), and you've got some mighty sour folks in those Obamites. No wonder the party is hemorrhaging.

Blaming Hillary for their own screw-ups is an old Republican trick. Makes me queasy just to think about it.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. Hillary doesn't give a fuck about Florida votes counting - she's just doing McCain's work for him.
She is no longer a Democrat - she's just a washed up, old bitter white woman!
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qijackie Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. BE GRATEFUL TO EVERYONE (words of a Tibetan Buddhist)
From Chogyam Trungpa who considers this the most important teaching:

BE GRATEFUL TO EVERYONE

So in a sense all the things taking place around us, all the irritations and all the problems, are crucial. Without others we cannot attain enlightenment - in fact, we cannot even tread on the path. In other words, we could say that if there is no noise outside during our sitting meditation, we cannot develop mindfulness... If everything were lovey-dovey and jellyfishlike, there would be nothing to work with.
We can write our own case history and employ our own lawyers to prove that we are right and somebody else is wrong - but that is also trouble we have to go through. And trying to prove our case history somehow doesn't work. In any case, hiring a lawyer to attain enlightenment is not done. It is not possible. Buddha did not have a lawyer himself.

Without others, we would have no chance at all to develop beyond ego. So the idea here is to feel grateful that others are presenting us with tremendous obstacles -even threats and challenges. The point is to appreciate that. Without them, we could not follow the path at all.

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qijackie Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #107
111. Also, recall Don Juan pointing out the need for the "petty tryant".
So, the particularly unpleasant people on this forum may be seen as giving others an opportunity to move a little bit toward enlightened mind.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. Obama has 1964 delegates, 61 more and he's the nominee!!!!
Those are the facts and she can't change it.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #107
120. yes, and it has gone septic
and approaching rabid.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #107
201. Cheers.
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #107
261. Maybe Hillary is carrying a disease the effects thier GI system.
Kind of like Typhoid Mary or something.

In any case she doesn't make me throw up. I just don't like her foreign policy record.


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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #107
277. Have you ever written a rational, informative post?
Answer: No
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #107
287. You lost me at "Obamites."
Since you can't make a point without insulting people, then nothing in the rest of your post is worthy of the time it would take to read it.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #107
293. But they're about HOPE and CHANGE. And UNITY!
They're all sunshine and puppies and ice cream!
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tmoore411 Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #107
304. The Republican tricks have worked for Obama up to this point, why stop now ??
Having a surrogate trash your opponent, remain silent, then, when called on it give the breezy sentiment, well, they don't speak for me, you can't hold their views against me. Run on the EXACT same platform as Bush (this is what really floors me, that the Dems, WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER, have let a campaign run from the same script as Bush get this far) i.e. "change", "uniter", "Washington outsider", et al. while garnering support from heavy, HEAVY party insiders (Kennedy, Kerry, etc.) which was the same for Bush (DeLay, Hastert, etc.). Now, the only way Obama can lose is if A) Clinton "steals" it or B) Clinton ruins it for him. Just a tip, if you win, you win and if you lose, YOU lose. Blame is for children and criminals, grown-ups take responsibility for their own triumphs and their own downfalls.
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Growler Donating Member (896 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
115. Hillary is a monster
nt
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
116. The State of Florida's legislature rendered those votes illegitimate
when it broke the rules of the governing body conducting the election, the DNC. "Counting every vote" is not what the Florida Supreme Court advocated in its opinion rendered during the 2000 election. Counting every legitimate vote was. There is a huge difference.

This is Hillary Clinton the candidate appointing herself to play the role the Supreme Court played in the 2000 election, intervening on a political basis as opposed to a legal basis, to interpret the law. How ethical is that, the candidate running for election anoints herself to play the role of the judiciary in deciding the rule of law. Self-serving and a conflict-of-interest beyond comprehension.

Unbelievable.

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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
123. if she's so worried about counting evrey vote & not disenfranchising people...
then why isn't she worried about the voters in MI who wanted to vote for other candidates but couldn't because the candidates name wasn't on the ballot? If it's the candidates who "voluntarily" took their names off (b.s.) she should still be concerned about the voters. She's so full of b.s. I am sincerely beginning to despise her more everyday.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #123
137. I listened to her speech today and
I wonder if she had anything to say about the problems with the 2000 and 2004 elections. I don't remember her saying anything publicly about those elections and the voting problems.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #137
142. it didn't involve her so she didn't care. n/t
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #142
145. Thanks. That was what I thought, too.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
125. K & R
:thumbsup:
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
126. Keep it up Hillary...I am sure the supers just LOVE to hear you drag the party through the mud...
...Not very smart...
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #126
139. well, unless they do something soon, they don't seem to give a damn.
this is the last straw for some of us here with her. If the damn "quiet" supers don't do their jobs now, it will be chaos and Rush Limbaugh's biggest wet dream ever in Denver. Last night I said they should wait until June 4th, I was wrong. they need to come out asap and close her down.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
128. She's a liar who will do anything, say anything
for power.

Sorry guys, I loathe her so that under NO circumsatnce will I ever cast a vote for her!
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
129. both candidates have thrown the democratic party under the bus
for the sake of their own egos. neither one of them cares what WE think. we don't elect them anyway. the elite few elect not us.
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
132. rock on Hillary Clinton!
Even though vast swaths of the DU have been drowned in Obama's kool-aid bath, there's still a few around here with some decency and common sense.

Keep on fighting!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
138. I can barely look at her face anymore
she repulses me so much.

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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. you know what you do then?
print out a huge picture of her and make your own personal dartboard. Childish, yes, but cathartic? you bet!!!
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confrontationclaws Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
143. It wasn't the party
Edited on Wed May-21-08 04:13 PM by confrontationclaws
that "disenfranchised" anyone. It was the morons in the legislature (on both sides of the aisle.)

I'm a lawyer, I understand rules. I didn't vote in the primary, because my vote wouldn't have counted.

I will vote in the general election for the presidential candidate with the "D" behind their name.

I have not been disenfranchised with respect to the general election. No one has. Any registered Democrat that stays home or votes fascist(R) just doesn't get it.

HRC is a power-hungry selfish fool. She would better serve as a quasi-Kennedy in the Senate until she retires.
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #143
182. If, in fact, you didn't vote, you were one of the few.
Florida had a record turnout. Are you saying you didn't bother to vote for the other candidates and measures on the ballot?
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #182
265. There were no other candidates to vote for.
There was only one measure on the ballot and if you thought your vote wasn't going to count and you weren't a homeowner you didn't vote. I'd be very surprised if a large percentage of renters voted.
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
144. She makes me sick every time I see her.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
146. BRIGHT SIDE -- Supers can see how far she seems willing to go
To deceive voters and twist the facts to suit her needs. Surely they'll ask her to step aside in their meeting on May 31st. Hillary has moved the goalposts and used sleazy tactics for months now and I've been more shocked each time because I keep expecting her to moderate in support of the party as a whole. Then I get a second shock when I see her so-called supporters easily dismissing each new sleazy comment or deception. I've gotten quite upset at all of this. But after seeing so many flippant comments by the fake HRC supporters and the resulting intense exchanges, I think a lot of the "You'll get over it" type stuff is designed purely to get some tizzies going. It may also be designed to stir up enough dissent within the party to provide the 2008 version of "God Guns and Gays" talking points for TV pundits to explain away the anomalies between exit polls and election returns as another election is stolen by the Republicans.
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Chalco Donating Member (817 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
147. If the situation was reversed, Obama would have the exact same stand on
Florida and Michigan as Clinton. STFU
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #147
156. If the situation was reversed, Obama would have had the decency to step down
Time after time, he has been way more gracious to her than she deserved and when she could rightfully be called out on lies.

He would have done what's good for the party, as did the other candidates in this race.

There is no disenfranchisement going on. People who have the infomation about MI and FL and the situation with the DNC know that.

It's the low information voters who believe her. She gets away with running this line of crap on people who don't know why the votes didn't count in the first place, like a car mechanic can run a con job on someone who knows nothing about car engines.
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Heathen57 Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #147
178. You are completely wrong in that statement
Obama has integrity where Clinton has none. He would follow the rules that he agreed to in the first place. In her maniacal, myopic campaign, Clinton has proven herself to be everything I detest in the GOP.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
149. she`s going to win come hell or high water...rock on hillary!
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
150. Interesting speech to give today, since seating them would give Obama the nomination.
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cloud75 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
152. another post that pushes me away from Obama...these are things
that you say but they reflect on your candidate.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #152
164. Hillary is bad for Democrats. (nt)
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #152
169. it is what HILLARY says that pushes me away from her- I suggest
you think about separating the candidate from their 'supporters'- you aren't electing a supporter- you are electing the CANDIDATE.

And I also ask you to consider that people can say anything, but it is their actions which speak the loudest. When a candidate is willing to prostitute them self and what they have claimed to be their "principals" in order to win- when they are willing to trash their fellow democratic peers to achieve their own goal, then don't be surprised when they trash their promises and principals if they actually DO achieve their goal. And don't expect that they will be able to easily regain the respect and trust of people who value integrity and diplomacy.

peace~
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
153. Hillary is a lap dog for Rove, Scaife, and Murdoch.
She's no Democrat.
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cloud75 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
154. Oh my god Oh my god , oh my god
the sky is falling.
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
157. Hhillary just doesnt get it..
She has failed in every catagory.. Why does she think this is about her?
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
158. Hillary was against counting Mi before she was for it
"It's clear, this election they're having (in Michigan) is not going to count for anything"
-Hillary Clinton, 10/11/07

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101100859_pf.html
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
159. She's just another Bush
She signed off on the decision that the vote in Florida and Michigan would not count. She assumed she wouldn't need them. Now that she does, well, suddenly, well, by hook or by crook. She's just another Bush.

I know of at least ten Democrats who have said they will vote for McCain before they will vote for her. So if she becomes the nominee you can be assured McCain will be our next president.

Some would rather have another Republican than another Bush.
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #159
189. She's the Decider
I get flamed when I try to point that out to people.
What's your secret?

Seriously, she thinks she can change rules (and reality) as needed just because she's a Clinton. She plays us with fear, ignores the will of the people, and tries to divide and conquer with racism and sexism. She has no problem with wars of aggression as long as they're done "correctly", and has she looked into those suspicious deaths and forged signatures at the VA yet?

I don't vote for neocons! Come what may.
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
160. comparing this primary
Edited on Wed May-21-08 04:39 PM by iamthebandfanman
to the GE in 2000 is absurd at best.

im officially more done with her than i was before after watching that garbage.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
161. ...
:grr:
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
162. k&r
She won't bow out gracefully like any other candidate would have done...a long time ago.
She's making me sick, too.....She's causing an epidemic.


peace~
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
163. I will never, ever vote for her if she manages to steal the nomination.
She can rot in hell for destroying the Dem party. I've had more than enough of her bullshit.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
172. it's not just her who should make you sick-it's a whole section of the democratic party aparatus
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
175. She can dare anything. It's up to us, the Democratic party to punish her for her actions
Never voting for her again, even for dog catcher, would be a good start.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
177. She's a sick, twisted, egomaniac. I can't believe how low she has sunk
I can't even put into words how much she disgusts me.

To think I used to admire her! :wow:
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
190. If she really wants every vote to count, she should advocate
opening the polls for a weekend so that all of the people who stayed home, because they thought the election wasn't going to count, can go out and vote. Only then will the vote reflect the will of the people.

I'm betting she's not THAT concerned though.
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #190
208. What's with these fake ass losers in KY and WV
These people are among the consistently poorest and least educated people in America and yet they continue to vote republican... I really is a shame... But we can't give up hope, they are Americans, they just need to be told the truth. Not the BS Hillary and the republicans have been feeding them.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #208
232. Damn....
what a condescending bunch of bullshit that was.

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InAbLuEsTaTe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
198. Hillary didn't JUST do it - she did it a long time ago and many times since.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
200. Hillary
is disgusting, as a person and a politician. Her selfishness knows no bounds. She literally turns my stomach.

(Mrs. Phx-Dem)
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WA98296 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
202. Just starting to make you sick? This has been sickening for weeks.
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
203. WHere are the fucking Supers???? The dem party is a bunch of spineless fools. WE are going to lose
because people are afraid of the Monster Clintons. Fuck them. They need to be shut down now. They are singlehandedly killing our chances in the Dem party. She will not get the VP slot after her bullshit!! She is ready to lead us to defeat on day 1.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #203
207. SD's rely on PACs for funding and have an investment in the status quo
small wonder they're hesitant to bite the hands that feed them, by endorsing Obama.

yep...
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #203
221. The Supers are taking their time deciding who is more electable in November.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
204. Such outrage. Such unity.
The world is ending. :nuke: :rofl:
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #204
216. Where is the unity from you and the rest of the hemlock drinkers?
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
209. Hillary is bent on destroying Obama's chance in the GE
Bill and Hill with their neocon warmonger corporatist DLC allies are clearing the way for 2012.

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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
210. she may TRY but HILLARY isn't powerful enough to throw the OBAMA EXPRESS under the bus
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
211. Obama fans......
...convinced Obama will win the GE in a historic landslide with half the Democratic Party, and a few repentent republicans. Otherwise, they'd concentrate on McCain, but when the wings of your support is dependent upon the level of vitriol levied at Clinton and her supporters, you have to choose. Seems Clinton hatred wins out every time. Very angry bunch for "winners". I'm voting for the democrat, whoever it is, but for the sake of this country, I hope Clinton takes it as far as needed to win, as long as the lawful process is not infringed upon. Since it has not been decreed that she has broken any rules, the process can continue. What Obama fans are telling everyone is, Clinton should quit, and if it were Obama behind in delegates, they would push for him to quit too, because they like a candidate who knows when to quit. I'll take the hate, insults, slurs, and name-calling, and stick with a candidate who won't quit on me. Thanks.
quickesst

"She makes me sick. She seriously makes me ill." Ha-ha! What I remember hearing in Jr. High when some of the girls got together. There was plenty of juvenile "bitch" hating going on back then too.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #211
220. Bravo.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
214. My dad wants me to write this RULES RULES RULES RULES
RULES




By all means follow the RULES

Superdelegates are free to choose.

Thats the rules


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nachoproblem Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
215. Once upon a time
True story. When I was about 6 years old, I met a little girl of about the same age on the front lawn of a house where my parents were visiting some friends. I was standing at one edge of the lawn, and this little girl was standing about halfway across the lawn from me. All of a sudden, she said, "Let's have a race," and started running for the other side. Immediately, she got to the opposite edge of the lawn and exclaimed, "I win!"

Being about 6 years old and not knowing any better, I said, "Hey! You cheated!" Upon hearing this she started crying loudly and a bunch of adults came rushing out of the house, half of them to console her and the other half to yell at me. Needless to say, any effort to explain myself did no good at all.

Some people will no doubt suspect that I cooked up the whole bias of the incident in my naughty, egotistical little-boy imagination, but I assure you it all happened so flash-bang-"what the hell was that?" fast that I doubt I could have made it up if I'd wanted to. After so much time to reflect on the error of my ways though, I have come to the conclusion that people will cheat, or will blame other people for not getting what they wanted, and regardless of what their position is there's not a damn thing you can do to persuade them otherwise.

Fuck this primary race. Wake me when the convention is over.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
225. ONE word sums up Hillary Clinton's candidacy: *** DESPERATE ***
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YWC08 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
229. Yep. I agree.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
230. K&R.
I'm afraid they've hurt Obama enough already which was their intentions all along.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
231. If she accomplished nothing but to make you seriously ill
even that would be a bonus point for her.

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styersc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
233. Perhaps you should display your disgust in a display that all
of the Main Stream Media will cover. You should stand in a public square and set yourself on fire. Pour gas over your head and set yourself ablaze. Taking every member of your family with you, young and old, will aid you in your demonstration.

DO it for Obama.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
235. Yep... Sorry... Can't Make Nice When The Enemy Is Still Using Their Catapults !!!
We are still under seige.

:mad:
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
236. It's impossible for her to throw anyone under the bus from her position.
She has already been thrown under the bus by the Left wing of her own party.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
237. Hillary will continue to try and destroy Obama's chances in Florida and Michigan, even
though she knows she lost. In the end, anyone who cares about their country will not spite themselves by voting in great numbers for McCain, nor will they stay home. I do believe Hillary today, with her own words, has commited political suicide.
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eek MD Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
239. Call me a tin-foil hatter...
but I think she wants us to lose the GE, because then in 2012 she won't have to run against an incumbent....which would likely mean waiting until 2016 for her next shot...
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #239
247. Ok, you're a "tin-foil hatter"
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
241. I was also crazy about and admired Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.
I thought she was a rising star. I don't want to listen to her now. It will take a long time to get over her positions, activities, and words. Thumbs down. I'm sorry to be at this point.
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ncteechur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #241
246. She is whacky as hell and was totally against impeachment. A LOSER!!
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
244. There are no Republican talking points about MI and FL
WTF are you talking about?
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #244
263. You obviously don't take punishment andl listen
to rethug radio and faux news... well I do. I like to know what BS the other side is pushing. Guess what? They are trying to convince FL and MI voters that the Democratic party doesn't care about them because of the DNC delegate rulling. Now Hillary is siding with the republicans on it.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #263
276. The party is going to disenfranchise millions of Democratic voters
and the best anyone can do to justify it is call it Republican talking points. That glaringly points to just how lame the Obama surrogates' argument is.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #276
284. The party hasn't disenfranchised anyone....
MI and FL had an opportunity to hold a primary and receive delegates...they didn't do it.

If I decided to hold my GE vote on July 3rd...guess what my vote wouldn't be recognized either and I wouldn't be disenfranchised. The only disenfranchisement going on is the attempted moves by Hillary to claim delegates from a vote that wasn't for delegates.

How dare Hillary and her supporters claim to know who the FL and MI dems want for president. People stayed home because they understood that the vote wasn't for delegates. What next are we going to blindfold people on the way into the polling booths. Voters have a right to know exactly what they are voting for BEFORE they step in or don't step into the voting booth.

If Hillary is really serious about FL and MI counting than she should drop out because she committed voter suppression. She herself told people over the airwaves that the states didn't count because they broke the rules.

If FL and MI voters are upset about not getting a say they need to take it out on their state Democratic party. Because it was the FL and MI Democratic Party leaders who decided to play political games with the voting date.

She practically told Fl voters yesterday that they should vote for McCain if FL delegates aren't seated.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #284
306. Nice try to rationalize things to fit the Obamabot group-think circle jerk
but when people's votes are not counted they are disenfranchised.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #306
307. Your argument sounds nice but it is undemocratic...
when a person's name isn't on the ballot and voters are told not to vote then the results are undemocratic.

Counting votes from a fraudulent primary is in it self disenfranchisement.


I am really getting sick of you Hillary supporters throwing democracy under the bus because your candidate is losing.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #307
308. Well, we're really sick of Obama surrogates
Edited on Fri May-23-08 10:52 AM by Gman
throwing voters under the bus. The voters didn't make the rules. So because of some rules Obama surrogates would tell those voters to go fuck theirselves. Obama tells those voters "Who cares what you think". Now who else said that? Now THAT'S democracy, isn't it? At least Obama's version.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #244
309. "Count all votes" = Republican, "Get over it" = Democrat
Don't you get it?

We are through the looking glass, for reals. :banghead:
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
250. My suggestion for all who are on hillary's email list:
Ask to be removed from the list, say you're disgusted by this, and urge Hillary to quit the race now in the interest of the party.
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #250
289. Doing it now!!! Great idea. Everyone take yourself off of the list!!
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
253. give it up. please. nt
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
254. It's all about "The Clinton" - the mega enterprize of ego and greed
Edited on Wed May-21-08 10:58 PM by autorank
First, between 1992 - 2000, the Clinton embargo on Iraq, total embargo, accounted for at least
500,000 deaths due to the shortage of supplies and the resulting illnesses caused by a decay
in sanitary conditions due to the embargo or due to an abswense of medical supplies and
diseases not treated.

That tells a lot. She was "co-president" - let her take credit for that! "Natural born killers."

Second, it's all about them. It's perfectly clear now that she could care less about the
Democratic ticket in 2008 and, by logical conclusion, the country. Think of it - John McCain,
President.

She should receive the reception she deserves at the convention - loud booing and appropriate
comments (or for NYC residents, the same reception George Steinbrenner got at Yankee Statium
when the fans were pissed off).




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williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
255. HRC = If I can't have it, no Dem will in 08. Fuck her. She isn't a Dem at all. rec'd
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
258. one person does not throw the whole dem party under the bus.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #258
259. It doesn't and it won't make any difference. You're acting like a loaded gun.
Help, the whole party is now under the bus cause Hill threw us there.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
262. Now I am beginning to understand
When it became clear a couple weeks back that Sen. Obama was the presumptive nominee, I felt like it was good idea to be somewhat sympathetic and empathetic to Sen. Clinton.

After all, on the purely human level, losing the Democratic nomination after entering the race with every conceivable advantage imaginable, but losing the race to a relative new face on the national scene must be both a very disappointing and perhaps even humiliating experience.
On the purely human level I could not help but feel for her a little bit.

I could even understand her staying in the race until the last primaries were finished for the sake of wrapping things.

But her campaign of deception and the way she is manipulating decent and honest, hard working people and playing on their fears and emotions for her own selfish ambition and with total disregard for advancing the ideals which she claims to represent - has so disgusted me.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #262
266. I know how you
feel. She jerked my strings a couple of times, but no more. I'm not feeling sorry for her again. I've learned my lesson.

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travelingtypist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
270. Bottom line, she really does think the Rules Committee
Edited on Thu May-22-08 02:10 AM by travelingtypist
is going to bring this in for her, give her the Michigan and Florida delegates outright, put her over the top.

Why not? Her rhetoric is Rovian. She creates her own reality depending on what day it is, and it doesn't matter if what she says today contradicts what she said yesterday. Why not steal it if she thinks she can get away with it? The presidency is hers, god damn it. No uppity, elite, exotic, Muslim, not-white man is going to take it away from her. There's a war criminal in the White House. Nobody's going to prosecute little old her, no matter what she does.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
275. And in the meantime.....
And in the meantime the Republicans are successfully deflecting criticism about the high price of oil onto the Democrats. By the time the GE rolls around the Democratic candidate will be a pariah.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
279. K & R
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catbyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #279
292. Agree 100%
I live in Michigan, and no way was that a fair election! I didn't vote because everyone--INCLUDING HILLARY AND HER SURROGATES--said that our votes wouldn't count. I know many other people who didn't waste gas going to the polls either. What really burns me up is that Hillary didn't care diddly squat about us until it was in HER interest to do so.

I've had it with that kind of phoniness.

Diane
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #292
305. Me too D.....
Edited on Thu May-22-08 07:09 PM by OwnedByFerrets
three months ago, I was ambivalent about her.....now I despise her tactics.

And a very warm welcome to DU!!:toast:
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shagsak Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
285. From now on, no one is allowed to have a negative opinion of Hillary
It is obviously a detriment to the party and very unfair. So no matter what she does, how she does it, or to whom she does it, no more negative opinions of her. Consider this issue closed.
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Subroutine Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #285
288. Hillary
Ever since 1993, the Republicans have only gotten one thing right......that would be Hillary.
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
290. Operation Chaos continues

"The dream end of this (of Operation Chaos) is that this keeps up to the convention, and that we have a recreation of Chicago 1968 with burning cars, protests, fire, and literal riots and all of that, that is the objective here (of Operation Chaos)." - Rush Limbaugh]

"Limbaugh must be back on the drugs. Maybe he's got a new housekeeper." - Mike Malloy

More on Operation Chaos.


And here's a good overview on where things stand now, from TPM.

It looks to me that Team Clinton has multiple angles going on here:
1. As long as the campaign continues, they can continue to raise money to offset their huge campaign debt.
2. She feels she owes it to women to keep on fighting.
3. She is running for 2012.

It's unfortunate that the Clinton campaign is trying to do all this while overturning the DNC rules they wholeheartedly supported before they saw that the only way to win was by moving the goalposts.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
294. Hillary = asshole
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s0ulablaze Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
295. Moving Right Along...
Barack has won by every legitimate metric, and he's done so
with great integrity.  If Hilary were winning the popular
vote, there would be no “if” in the statement.    Hilary’s
supporters should ask themselves, “What's the rational behind,
and benefit of Hilary continuing her campaign?” that is
currently predominately serving to put her further in debt,
divide the country further, offend and alienate
African-Americans, invoke fear and prejudice, etc.  Talk about
an appetite for destruction…hers is insatiable!  How can she
claim to balance our country’s budget, when she can’t balance
her own?  How can she claim to bring our troops home from a
failed war that should not have been authorized in the first
place, when she can’t even remove herself from a destructive,
and failed campaign even long after it’s been clear that she
cannot win by current standards to which she agreed?

Why does she deserve the nomination more than Barack - because
there are still some racists in the world, or because she’s
proven she can hold an indefinite position as “the underdog”? 
 Furthermore, Barack has held up rather well against the
“right-wing attack machine”, in spite of her biased warnings
that he couldn’t do so.  Her “experience” argument doesn’t
hold up either: failed healthcare plan, vote for Iraq War,
Wal-Mart board member, “Bosnia lie”, scandal baggage, dirty
campaigning, divisive politics, etc.  Yes, Hilary has plenty
of legitimate, helpful experience in her arsenal as well, but
so does Barack.  There are benefits and drawbacks to each of
them.  Neither is perfect.  Moreover, her claim that she’s the
stronger candidate isn’t supported by her failed campaign, and
she can’t guarantee a democratic victory any more than Barack
can.  We live in an age where claims can be easily verified;
therefore, to overstate one’s experience, position, or
whatnot, speaks to the arrogance, if not the delusions, of the
perpetrator.  I doubt if anyone has those characteristics on
her list as desirable for The President of the United States
to have.  

Hilary has lost the race, and should gracefully concede rather
than try to bend and break the rules to fit her.  She’s making
this a loss, really.  It could be a “win, win”, if she could
muster up some integrity and humility.  Why is it OK for her
to say that Barack should be denied equal opportunity on the
basis of his race, and then add insult to injury by
simultaneously complaining that she’s not getting a fair shot
because she’s a woman?  If she has so much pull with her
supporters, and she believes in unity, then why doesn’t she
throw her support behind Barack, the victor, who has won “fair
and square”?  

I was a strong Hilary supporter until she adopted this “by any
means necessary” approach, and until I witnessed the integrity
with which Barack has run his campaign.  The means do not
necessarily justify the end, and “by any means necessary” is
not the same as “fighting a good fight”.  Also, I prefer to go
with the person who says, “Yes we can!” as opposed to the
person who says, “That’s just the way it is!”

Barack leads by example.  Forget all that “guilt by
association” and “he’s just a speech” non-sense!  “The proof
is in the pudding” and “actions speak louder than words”.  For
the record: When he had the opportunity to make more money by
working for corporations, he chose to work as a community
organizer instead; He spoke out against the Iraq War from the
beginning, and continues to do so; He has sponsored hundreds
of Bills, a great many of which were passed into law, and
championed numerous causes to help eliminate poverty, fight
crime, protect human rights, reform healthcare, maintain a
balanced economy, assist veterans, bring accountability to
government, etc.; He continues to run a successful, clean, and
respectful campaign; He reaches out to ALL people; He has the
support of people across the board, including working-class
whites, and not just blacks. Indeed, his experience rivals, if
not trumps Hilary’s.
 
Additionally, Barack’s insight from his diverse ethnic
background, and exposure to different cultures can only serve
as leverage to help bridge our differences.  His background is
also a marvelous demonstration of what America is all about. 
To suggest that Barack is anything other than what he
exemplifies, is malarkey, and only reveals the nature of the
accuser.  I don’t think Hilary is evil, or Barack is a saint. 
I just know that the race is over, and Barack has earned the
nomination.  It’s time to move forward accordingly.  Hilary
should cease her self-serving, divisive, and irresponsible
campaign, and redeem her legacy, by putting forth every effort
to get Barack elected as the next President of The United
States of America.  There is no guarantee that he will win in
the general election, but again, he has earned the right to
compete as the democratic nominee.  Based on his brilliant
performance thus far, I have no doubt that Barack is ready to
lead our great country, and I have great faith that America
will hold true to its creed as well, by voting, “Yes we can!”
at the ballot box!
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
299. It's all over the radio programs now - Hillary is either insane or going to go independent.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 12:14 PM by Major Hogwash
And you thought this election was about getting a neocon out of the White House!!!!!!
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
300. The DLC is working hard to ensure their murderous foreign policy continues into
the next decade and beyond.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
302. Hillary is Joe Lieberman in drag.
And she proves it every time she opens her mouth. Hillary is setting women's hopes for a real Prez candidate backwards by 100 years with her sore loser attitude.
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Kjaereste Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
310. Floridians came out to vote because a tax amendment was on the ballot
They didn't come to vote for Hillary -- they came to vote to lower their property taxes. I voted for Edwards.

They either need to follow the rules they agreed to or to hold do-overs. Changing rules in mid-primary isn't fair to anyone.
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