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If Hillary Wants To Be The VP, The Spot Is Hers. You Know That Right?

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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:37 PM
Original message
If Hillary Wants To Be The VP, The Spot Is Hers. You Know That Right?
Seriously. If she truly wants to be VP, she will have it hands down, no if ands or buts about it. If she's not the VP, it's ONLY because she didn't ask to be. Wonder how many of you realize that looming certainty, and that the choice is up to her, not anyone else. If she demands it behind the scenes, if she tells the SD's that, the SD's will for certain give it to her at the convention. The only reason she wouldn't be VP is if she doesn't say she wants to be.

That's as much political blunt fact reality as you are gonna see these days...
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Whatever makes you feel better.
He's not going to ask her. And she doesn't deserve it. She doesn't even deserve to be in the Senate anymore...at least not as a Democrat.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Not Up To Him If She Asks For It. He Will Have No Say.
If she asks for it behind the scenes, the SD's will give it to her. It's that simple.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. The SDs don't control his choice of VP. JFC. How ridiculous.
Edited on Wed May-21-08 05:44 PM by BushDespiser12
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
217. Sure they do.
A vote is held for VP just like P. If she wants it, it's hers.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:42 PM
Original message
Yes it is up to him, de facto if not de jure.
There will be no shotgun wedding.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. And YOU KNOW THIS how?
She doesn't own the show anymore apparently.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Ummmm, Simple Convention Process And Logic?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #27
211. The most logical explanation I heard for HRC turn to today's hardline stance
was that she had gotten the word that she wasn't on the ticket.

All of which, along with your speculation, is just interesting gossip which is fun but given the highly unconventional year we are in highly speculative.

There may be a more practical problem - would the Clinton's be willing to undergo the vetting process all VP candidates normally go through in particular vetting the many contributions to the Clinton charity and library. It maybe that you are right that she was offered the postion on the condition that she open up all the books and that condition is what turned the Clinton campaign frosty.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
69. You believe that shit if you want to. HRC is the only thing that can keep a Democrat out of the WH
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Okie Dokie Artichokie!
:dunce:
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
164. Sheer codswollop. It's that simple. nm
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
182. Then I hope the SDs enjoy watching the RW hate machine go
after BOTH of them. They've been holding their powder just WAITING for the chance to fire it all at HRC in the fall.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
205. "He Will Have No Say."
No, you will have no say.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Like hell it is.
Who'd want such a loose cannon...
or more correctly, double loose cannons...
on any ticket. Caving in to Hillary's antics would be silly.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. If You Don't Think The SD's Would Grant That Request Then You Need To Wake Up.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. How would super delegates have any say?
They can vote for one or the other of them, they cannot dictate the ticket.

You don't know the rules.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. ROFLMAO!!!!! Oh God PLEASE Educate Yourself As To The Process.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Why don't you educate us. Cite the rules and provide a link, please.
NGU.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. Seriously... Do You Not Know There Are Two Roll Calls At The Convention?
:rofl:
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Go on. I'm always glad to learn. And don't forget the links, please.
NGU.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. I Just Told You. Are You Really This Stubborn? Are You Claiming There AREN'T Two Votes At The
convention?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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musicblind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
175. She is right from what I understand. There are two calls at the convention
Edited on Wed May-21-08 07:38 PM by musicblind
one to vote for President and one to vote for VP. Traditionally the person the nominee has decided they like best and put forth is almost always voted in, but if Hillary so choose, she could campaign for herself to be the VP regardless. This is how it was explained to me.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
93. Several have already gone on the record to say Obama should pick his on VP, even if it isn't Hillary
The SDs are going to honor Obama's choice for VP, whoever that may be. Count on it.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. That is patently false.
Obama can put whomever he wants as his running mate, she is becoming increasing irrelevant by the hour.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Approx 17 million Democrats voted for her. She's not irrelevant.nt
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. She's done more to humiliate the U.S. than Bush Jr ever dreamed of doing....
That is, I suppose, a certain relevancy. And if you're Hillary Clinton, who is so desperate for validation, being known as a clumsy political buffoon will be enough, finally. Hopefully, so because that is all she will have left. Her claim to fame will be "I was a bigger political buffoon than Bush Jr."
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. holy crap... did you really just say that?
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. Let me think...hmmmm....YEP! that was me. n/t
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
73. Oh My Are You Far Gone...
:rofl:
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #73
160. Give up, OMC.
The inmates are in charge of the asylum, and they are hanging people.

The election in the fall is already lost. All they have to do is dredge up threads from places like this.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #160
162. .
The idea that the McCain campaign will use DU posts is... wow, amazing. Fuck. I have to take five now. You just blew my fucking mind. Just wow.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #162
184. Try a GOOGLE. see how many hits.
Your MOB is just perfect for negative press. I tried 4 different times as if I was pulling up propaganda for the right. Got a massive Obama Meltdown DU thread in the top 10 every time.


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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #184
189. You're ridiculous.
But what exactly do you think will happen as a result of people googling and finding DU threads that offend you for unknown reasons?
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #189
190. Go ahead, just keep it up.
When the McCain crowd needs some comment showing Obama Supporters destroying another Democrat, you'll see what I mean.

Note I called you no names, did not question your motives or sanity. You just think that what you say here, STAYS here. See the GOOGLE search up in the corner?
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #190
194. This is the most laughable concept I have ever seen touted here.
I sincerely hope McCain campaigns on such a ludicrous premise. It will lose him more votes than ten Pastor Hagees, because it will expose him as a complete and total imbecile to all thinking people.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #194
215. You know, we felt the same way in 1972
How could any THINKING person not join with us and George McGovern. I mean the war was on TELEVISION every night. everyone SAW the atrocities on the evening news.

Guess we were wrong, weren't we?
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #215
233. I wasn't born yet
What is the analogy with anonymous posters on DU? Are you saying the anti-war movement caused Nixon to win?
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #162
186. Just Googled "hilary wants to be VP."
Top 2 hits out of more than 800,000: this tread.

You have no idea the damage you can do.

"The whole world is watching!" protesters chant from the 1968 Democratic Convention, Chicago.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #186
199. Wow. That's Kinda, Uh, Creepy In A Way. I Kinda Feel Weird Now LOL
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #199
214. SEE? I've just proved my own point.
What happens here has impact beyond our little sewer.
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musicblind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #160
177. I know, seriously, what the hell is up with ANYONE saying that Hillary has done more damage than
BUSH???????
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #160
201. They won't have to come to DU to dredge up anything.....
They can just use Hillary's own words against the Democratic nominee and the Democratic Party.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #73
174. Sadly he or she is by far not the only one on this board of late who qualify for such
a distinction
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
159. that's pure insanity
I dont know how you guys manage to chew the restraints every day.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #46
169. Nice work! Here for three months and already the poster of the dumbest fucking comment ...
in DU history.
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
236. Oh boy, that goes beyond belief.
What an awful thing to say. I can't believe you're a democrat if you could say something that wrong about Hillary. You need to take that back.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. It Wouldn't Be Up To Him. The SD's Would Grant It. Educate Yourself Please.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:45 PM
Original message
You educate us, please, since you so desperately want us educated.
NGU.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
40. Two Roll Calls At The Convention: One For Pres, One For Vice Pres.
If Hillary wants the spot, a majority of SD's will EASILY grant that request by giving her that majority vote for VP at the convention. It's really quite simple. The fact so many here are blind to that reality shows how little about the process they know.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. The two are elected separately. Sure. Who doesn't know that? And you're free to believe...
Edited on Wed May-21-08 05:55 PM by ClassWarrior
...whatever you want to believe about how the vote for VP nominee will go. :shrug:

NGU.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. Well Then Why Don't You Think About That For A Second.
Do you not realize how torn so many of the SD's were in rhetorically betraying the Clintons to support Obama? Do you realllllllly think they're going to COMPLETELY stab them in the back and say no to committing to a VP vote, if she wanted it? C'mon now. Use your head CW. Think about it for a second. You'll see the reality of what I'm sayin.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Nurse Ratchet is going to kill you when she finds you...
NGU.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
172. Who doesn't know that? Well, based on every post you made until OMC informed you of the fact,
I would guess that the answer to your question could be discerned by locating the nearest mirror.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. About anything this OP posts is pretty much a joke these days. It's too bad he can't keep his word:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5271415
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Shae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
115. In all fairness. . .
people do get mad and leave, cool down and come back.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. You keep believing that, if it helps you with the dissapointment
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. It's Not Belief. It's Pretty Much Certainty. Please Educate Yourself Of The Process Please.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
39. Real Progressives share their knowledge with their allies. So please educate us.
NGU.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. I Did It Twice Already You Impatient Little Thing.
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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Why?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Remember, Obama fans: pretend that it really upsets you that Hillary will be the VP
This way, the Hillary fans can claim a symbolic victory to make up for their actual loss. Pretend that Obama has lost all by beating Hillary for the top spot!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. did you just throw out your
"honesty" "integrity" meme out the door for Hillary's sake?

I see that those things supposedly matter to you on your profile.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #47
64. Since when is blackmail "honest"
I just don't get it why Hillary thinks this country or any of us OWE HER ANYTHING.

She was the wife of a fairly decent president who was actually elected. He did a pretty good job, but some mistakes were made. But why does that mean that we HAVE to have her too? Was there some kind of secret deal we were all agreeing to when we elected Bill that some of us didn't know about? Was not giving them 8 years in the White House enough? They did get to make at least $100 MILLION for their trouble. I mean - I just don't understand where my debt is supposed to be.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
85. Snappy!
:rofl:
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Democrats do not reward extortion
not even from Queen Hillary.

Better work on your "Hillary '12" posters....
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. Youuuuuuu Keep Goin On Believin That LOL
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. What's laughable is your utter delusion
Hillary has no say...NONE...in getting on the ticket.

And in case you misplaced your calendar, this is 2008, not 1960. Or 1956. The days of backroom deals to arrange the ticket for the GE went out with the Edsel.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. Hillary Has ALL The Say If She Wants It. If She Wants It, It's Hers. You Need To Accept That.
Seriously. If you don't realize that reality, it's because you don't really have a clue as to how things work.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #50
75. And you do?
:rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #81
102. I have given it serious, serious thought....
and I've come to the conclusion that you don't know shit from shinola
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #102
185. So that's what shinola is.
:rofl:
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well that's your opinion...and maybe not such a good one...
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. Actually, It's Pretty Much Political Fact.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
56. What kind of a fact is a "pretty much" fact?
The kind that's really just a lame prediction by some random keyboard jockey?

NGU.
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gmudem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
156. It's nothing like that.
I assume you don't actually believe anything that you are saying and are just trying to get a rise out of people.

The only other logical conclusion I can come up with is that you are truly batshit crazy.

Obama's VP is going to be whoever he damn well wants it to be. IOW, it will not be Hillary.

HILLARY WILL NOT BE VICE PRESIDENT. Get that through your thick skull. The SD's wont decide it. Clinton won't decide it. Only Obama will decide it.

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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. Nurse Ratchet is looking for you with a little paper cup of pills...
:rofl:

NGU.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. The one simple reason why you're wong
If Obama has a majority of votes at the convention, as I expect he will, he will probably also get a majority of votes for his choice of running mate. If he does not propose Clinton, I very much doubt that those at the convention will vote to undermine his first decision as nominee.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. Way Simplistic Thinking You've Got There.
He's got a majority committed to supporting him as the nom. If Hillary demands the VP slot, you bet your ass that a ton of delegates that had to make a hard decision to choose him to begin with, will absolutely grant that request to Hillary. Think about it. C'mon now.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #59
105. Sorry, that is nothing more than your personal opinion
If I were a superdelegate (or any other kind), the last thing I would want to do after selecting Obama as my nominee would be to limit his freedom to choose a running mate. I think it would be supremely bad politics. Your opinion clearly differs.
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ossman Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. The nomination was also hers too. Not anymore. You know that right?
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
191. LOL
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. Barbara Boxer, friend of Hillary said today, that it is Barack's decision alone who is the VP.
And Barack's decision is "no" on Hillary.

But hey keep telling yourself that. Whatever gets you through the day.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. Guaranteed loss in Nov. The base of the Repubs absolutely
HATE Hillary and Bill.


There's a reason Rush and O'reilly and Buchanan are all warm and runny for Hillary right now.

Think about it.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
94. Not just Rush and O'Reilly....
seems like we have our own OPERATIONCHAOS operatives
right here at home!
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
25. Typical Hillary nonsense...
Your candidate blew into this race with a raging sense of entitlement, and you seem
to have adopted the same haughty attitude.

She's entitled to nothing. Even if she wants it.

She doesn't deserve to be on the ticket with Obama.

You'll see. And when you do, I'll be sure to pull up this post.

...if you're still around that is.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
26. That's the Karl Rove and Richard Mellon Scaife Plan
Let's hope the Supers can resist the DLC pressure with the growing power of the DNC and all the new voters behind them.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. How, exactly, would one go about disproving your claim?
Or is it that no matter *what* happens, it validates your claim?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
33. What's in it for the Super Delegates?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
70. What's NOT In It? What's Their Risk? You Think That Many Of Them Would So Readily Burn Their
Clinton bridge? So many of them were torn in choosing Obama and probably still harbor guilt to this day. Do you think for a second, without any real due cause, that they'd look her in the eyes and deny her the VP slot if she demanded it? Many of these people have been long time friends of the Clintons, or were in his administration, or owe them in some way (fundraising etc). Can you tell me their motivation for completely decimating the bridge of friendship/camaraderie? Ain't gonna happen. She'd EASILY be able to get enough of them over to her side to support that vote if she demanded. I'm being serious here. Use your head and think about it a minute.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #70
89. I doubt they feel guilty. If they felt they owed her, they'd probably have supported her.
Edited on Wed May-21-08 06:12 PM by JVS
Please explain where you get all those assumptions about their motives.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. Are You Serious?
Damn dude, if you think some of them didn't have to make the hardest decision of their careers there, and still harbor some guilt over it, then I don't know what to tell ya.

She would easily be able to get enough of them to vote for her in the VP slot if she demanded so.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #92
117. Again this "guilt". I'm not buying it. The only people who think that they're guilty are asshats..
Edited on Wed May-21-08 06:23 PM by JVS
like Carville who thinks Richardson betrayed Clinton. Also, by voting for her as VP they would increase her ability to retaliate for their lack of support in becoming P, whereas if they just use the simple "We want Obama to pick his running-mate" buck-pass, she will be in no position to settle what she perceives as the score.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. I missed that rule.
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tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
36. That's what she said about being President too...n/t
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weezie1317 Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
42. If that were true, she would have already been offered it and accepted it since...
there is no way she can win the presidential nomination.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
43. You know I respect you...
And I do.

But, I believe here, you are mistaken.

The candidate picks his/her VP.

Nobody else.

Nobody.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. Here's Some Rules For Ya. Please Note This Part:
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/D.phtml

Monday 25 August - Thursday 28 August 2008: 45th Democratic National Convention, Denver, Colorado

The 45th DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION will have a total of 4,050 delegate votes, with 2,026 (a majority) necessary in order for a Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidate to be nominated.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
48. yep... i agree 100%
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #48
80. Well, you're wrong. BTW, why don't you tell your buddy the OP to live up to his promises:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5271415
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #80
231. Aw crap...
Edited on Thu May-22-08 02:34 PM by EnviroBat
Looks like Texas Hillbilly decided to come back too... More shitty posts now to wade through. :eyes:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6068366
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
51. The Hillbots Are Getting More Frantic And Crazy by the second.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. OMC supports obama
so he says, as far a I know.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Yeah, last I heard he was a Hillbot. If he changed his mind... I don't believe it.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. Never Was A Hillbot, Nor An Obamabot. See, I'm Not A Closed Minded Moron.
I've supported Obama for quite some time now. And it's funny: I didn't have to abandon all sense of logic, reasoning, and critical thought in order to do so. You could learn from such a method.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
87. Actually, your OP demonstrates that you're not
too cozy with critical thought.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. Tell Me Then, Why Do You Consider It Wrong?
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #63
98. Yes, you are a close-minded moron.
Only a close-minded moron would believe that Hillary Clinton could stomp into the convention, DEMAND to be on the ticket as VP, and the delegates would simply kowtow to her whim with no question and no word at ALL from the fucking nominee. Just because there are separate rollcalls for President and VP does not mean that Clinton will be automatically inserted as VP.

Now if Obama picked David Duke or Donald Rumsfeld as his running mate, this is where your scenario could come into play as legitimate.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #63
111. There is a saying for those who deny their own insanity...
I allow you to use your logic, reasoning and critical thought to figure out what that saying says.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #63
116. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
53. not if she keeps this up.
and certainly not if she keeps this going after Obama has the requisite number of delegates to make him the presumptive nominee. And thanks, but i think barbara boxer is a wee bit more informed than thee. and she doesn't agree with you. neither does nancy pelosi. btw, I have no problem with her on the ticket. i'd enjoy seeing her as 2nd banana, taking orders from obama.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #53
68. She'd get a taste of what she put Al Gore through for 8 years
n/t
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #68
145. Bwahahahhhhhhhaaaaaaaa FredScuttle, that's funny and true
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
61. Hmmm...
The way I understand it is that the superdelegates, who are party insiders and can do what they wish regardless of anything else, popular vote, pledged delegate count or whatever. I'm guessing the overriding thing they will consider is whether or not the nominee can beat McCain. But you're saying that her influence can even override that?

So, basically, they have 3 choices, right?

1) Choose Clinton over Obama because they think she has a better chance of beating McCain than Obama

2) Choose Obama over Clinton because they think he has a better chance of beating McCain than Clinton

3) Choose Obama but with Hillary as VP because Clinton wants it that way, regardless who they think the best team would be to beat McCain

Are you saying that Hillary has so much sway over the supers that she can convince them to go with number 3 regardless whether or not they think that is truly a winning ticket?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. She's Not Allllll That Far Away From Having Had Enough To Win This Whole Thing.
So with that many already in her pocket, it won't be hard for her at ALL to get enough of the ones that felt such guilt in supporting her, to at least grant her the VP vote. So many supporting him don't hate her, ya know. They owe huge debt to the Clintons and are friends with them etc, but made a hard decision in choosing Obama. They'd have NO REASON to stab her in the back, and burn that bridge, as it relates to the VP slot. She should easily be able to get enough on top of her own to support her in that vote. Use your head.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #65
100. I am using my head, despite your assumption to the contrary.
Edited on Wed May-21-08 06:45 PM by parasim
The thing that bothers me is that you're saying that the supers would make their decision to go with a Hillary VP spot simply because of their ties, friendship or debt to the Clintons, or whatever you want to call it, rather than the best interests of the Democratic Party.

That is what disturbs me. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just would be totally disgusted if that is indeed the case. It's also one of the reasons I am supporting Obama. To hopefully change that old school, cronyism, totally f'd-up election process that we have endured for so many years.

on edit:

Oh, and by the fucking way, fuck you and your fucking holier-than-fucking-thou fucking atti-fucking-tude. God, I hate the language of bullies.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #100
146. There's A Huge Part Your Missing Here:
They're not nearly as closed minded as you. Many of them are smart enough to know that an Obama/Clinton ticket would be practically unbeatable, and would believe it to be a strong team going into the GE. There's no way they'd do it out of friendship alone, and of course they'd have to believe it would be good for the party. But aside from many of the zealots, many are aware as to how great of a ticket that would be and the benefits of having them together, especially with her base and how close this primary has been. Don't fool yourself.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #146
161. Ok then. If they truly believe that it would be best for the party to have her on the ticket...
to be able to beat McCain, then that's fine. You were going on and on about how she would get the VP spot if she demanded it and because of their friendship et al. I'm not quite so closed minded about that I don't think, I was mainly reacting to your assumption (it appeared to me, anyway) that they wouldn't care if she they won the general or not, just that they would pick her because she demanded such and they didn't want to upset them.

I am open to a joint ticket with her as VP because I think they could actually beat McCain, but I still don't think that that is necessarily the best for the party largely because of how people like you who frame the Clintons as being some sort of royalty to be bowed down to. and I tend to think that having Hillary (with Bill standing behind her) in an Obama administration would make it difficult for Obama to get anything done without having to appease the DLC.

I believe Obama can beat McCain on his own and actually change things in this country and allow the Democratic Party to become more aligned with it's core values.

Perhaps I am naive, but you don't have to be an asshole about it.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
66. hey, if that helps you sleep at night, rationalizations are easy
reality is hard
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #66
112. Goal Post Movers 101...
If there is the SLIGHTEST CHANCE IN HELL
that she can strong-arm her way into the
V.P. Slot, it becomes:

YOU CAN'T STOP HER!
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
67. Lots of bull and no facts, just assertions.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. I've Posted The Relevant Logic 10 Times Already. Pay Attention Kid.
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #71
110. Because you say it doesn't make it true...and don't call me kid.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #110
134. Political Reality And Logic Make It True Kid.
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #134
154. You are one condescending SOB
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #154
166. You'll Get Over It Kid.
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #166
178. You reflect your candidate well.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #178
179. My Candidate Is Obama Dum Dum.
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #179
180. I think you're a child
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
72. he`s the one who picks

---not her,the party,or the space aliens that are circling the whitehouse. he has to have someone he trusts and that is not hillary.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. WRONG-O
The delegates vote for the VP. It's who they vote for that matters. And if she demands it, she'll easily get enough from his side to agree to vote for her in that position.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. She would have to be nominated and only he can do that.
They cant vote on someone who isn't up for the position.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. ROFLMAO!!!!!
:rofl:
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #86
97. Tell me then who nominates the running mate
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
76. You know if I want your car, I can have it right?
And if I want some more money, I just need to go into the bank and get it. I don't even need an account or a job! I'll just walk right into the vault and take what I need! And if I really want to be the CEO of Microsoft, I don't even need to interview first. I can just walk into the building, throw out the guy sitting behind the desk, and declare myself boss! It's that simple!

I can have ANYTHING I want. You know that, right?
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. Who nominates the person that the delegates vote for?
The nominee.

Game over.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #82
96. They Can Vote For Whoever They Want. Get A Grip.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #96
104. They can't vote for any random name in the universe
It is an an up or down vote on the person nominated for the position.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #96
107. And WHY pray-tell, would they pick the person who has single-handedly done everything in her power
to divide and conquer the Democratic Party?

Yes, this election was close. So what?
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #96
122. actually they can't
They don't just pick any VP they want.
They validate the Nominee's selection.
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Norwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
79. Bull
Edited on Wed May-21-08 06:11 PM by socordsx
This sense of entitlement that Hillary displays as well as a lot of her supporters is sickening. She deserves nothing and if she loses (and she already has but just wont admit it) has no say whatsoever on who gets VP. The decision is Obama's and his alone, and unless he wants to lose to McCain he won't pick her.
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islandmkl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
83. OH NO!! another OMC 'dialogue' or 'debate' or 'exchange of ideas' OP...
Edited on Wed May-21-08 06:11 PM by islandmkl
where OMC is the main participant...

i'll give OMC credit...it keeps the post active...





on edit: P.S.--it isn't going to be up to hillary---you just aren't paying attention to what is going on throughout the party...
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. Try And Think. It Won't Hurt You, I Promise.
Gears might make a few squeaking sounds at first, but I promise it'll work out ok for ya. :hi:
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #88
101. WHO NOMINATES THE RUNNING MATE??
THE NOMINEE
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Yanez Houston Jordan Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
84. If Hillary wants Obama to serve as her valet for a year, Obama has to agree. You know that, right?
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
91. And OPERATIONMINDCRIME knows it all
huh?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. Well, Not EVERYTHING, But Almost Everything...
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. WHO NOMINATES THE VEEP FOR THEM TO VOTE ON??
WHO???
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #99
108. God You're Silly ROFLMAO!!!!!
I'll speak slowly for you:

T h e y. C a n. V o t e. F o r. W h o e v e r. T h e y. W a n t.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #108
118. T h e y . H a v e . T o . H a v e . A . N o m i n e e . T o . V o t e .
And who nominates the nominee? Where's that link? Is that why you refuse to give me one? Because you're presenting a half-truth?

NGU.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:23 PM
Original message
You should brush up on convention mechanics before you enunciate with such certainty.
Hillary CAN'T go in and take the VP slot. The SDs won't allow it, the rules committee won't allow it--it's just not going to happen.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #108
123. How? Write in votes on the convention floor?
They have a vote on the nominated person before them.

If Hillary's name iain;t there, they can't vote for her.

Unless you think they are just gonna randomly create anarchy on the floor.

Of course a meteor might hit Hillary on the head tomorrow too. Just as bloody likely.
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
103. If she wants it.... it is hers. I agree.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #103
106. False.
Obama may decide to appease her, but it is not hers by divine right.
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #106
125. I never said "divine right"... it is hers because almost half the Dems voted for her.
Myself included. I support Obama now after Hillary barely won in Indiana, but I still admire her.

I will vote Dem no matter what.. but I know plenty of people who won't. I DON'T agree with them... but then again, I'm a male (and they are female - my friends who won't vote for him). I think they are wrong... but who am I to judge them since I don't stand in their shoes since I am a male?
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #103
114. I should amend my post to this:
If she makes it publicly known that she wants it, he has to give it to her to win.


That would mean she values the VP slot more than a future career in the Senate.

I personally don't think she would even WANT the VP slot.

I think she would rather support Obama as President and become very powerful in the Senate.
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daGREATONE Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
109. no
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
113. You may be right. I won't like it, but I'm used to having to put up with not
liking a LOT of politicians that I end up voting for anyway. Oh well.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
119. Those roll calls include about 3000 delegates who are not
super delegates. Do you really think the supers will go against all those who will be voting for Obama's pick?

Sorry, OMC, but you're dead wrong on this one.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
120. Read your history.
The nominee always gets to choose his or her VP. Occasionally, the nominee might decide to let the convention decide, but other than that, it's the nominee's prerogative.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #120
132. Exactly. The nominee chooses who he wants and it's formally ratified at the convention.
And unless Obama doesn't Johnny Depp or Bob Dole as his running mate, he'll be fine.
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
121. You must smoke a lot of crack or eat a lot of dung...either way..you're fucked up...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #121
131. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #131
151. lol
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
124. Obama has no say. If this is not what he has in mind, tough. Hillary will demand it and get her way.
What BS!
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #124
128. I enjoy how the OP asserts they can vote for whomever they want
The nominating process doesn't work like that.

I don't know how many times this person has seen an election, but the VP is nominated by the nominee and the party acclaims their selection.

There isn't anarchy nor wirte in voptes or anythign of the kind.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
126. I think you are addicted to thinking you are right and calling other people
stupid for disagreeing. Usually this condition stems from deep-seated insecurities.

PS Queensryche sucks!
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
127. If that were the case you she'd be the fucking nominee. You know that right?
Edited on Wed May-21-08 06:27 PM by JTFrog
That's as much political blunt fact reality that you ain't never gonna realize.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #127
133. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #133
140. THERE ARE RULES IN PLAY THAT YOU ARE IGNORING
They cannot vote for anyone they want.

They get a nomination on the floor as offered by the party's nominee.

The delegates, all of them, pledged and super, vote on that person.

They don't have a procedure for write in votes or nominating someone else.

Your ignorance is showing.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
129. You are the one over-simplifying this issue, to a retarded degree, in fact.
The nomination of the VP candidate by the convention delegates is typically a formality. There is occasionally an anomaly, especially if the Presidential nominee selects a running mate that is incredibly out of touch with the party base or that the delegation largely protests or feels will not secure a winning slot. Given the number of qualified VP candidates at Barack Obama's disposal, he does not need to select Hillary Clinton in order to have a viable Presidential ticket.

The VP selection is usually made before the convention, so the both of them will go in and unless the VP selection is a controversial one, then he/she will likely be ratified by the roll-call. Your assertion that Hillary could simply demand the slot and get it is false. She would have to be ratified in the same way as any other VP nominee, and given the controversial, divisive turn her reputation has taken of late, it's very possible that even if Obama selected her as his running mate before the convention, she may very well not get it based on the VERY reasons that VP nominees have been turned down by delegations in the past.

So stop puffing out your chest on this. You're way out of line here.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #129
136. She Doesn't Need A Whole Lot Of Defectors To Pull It Off, And I'd Wager She'd Be Able To Get More
than enough to do so. Their doing so would be FAR more readily accepted and understood by the public than a Presidential nominee coup, and many who are supporting him as SD's still are loyal to the Clintons in ways and still quite like them. It wouldn't be hard for Hillary to convince them to commit to slotting her for VP at all.

This scenario isn't NEARLY as far fetched as some of the half wits in this thread want to declare it as being. In fact, I'd say it's as close to 100% as you can get in politics. If she demands it, it's hers. Bank on it.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #136
158. No no no. You're back to that illogical square one again.
If she demands it, it's NOT hers, because Obama will have already selected his VP running mate by then and all the delegation has to do is it's traditional roll-call. As I said, unless his VP pick is WAY outside the establishment, then they would have NO REASON to overturn his choice, even if she's demanding she be chosen instead. You have this way wrong.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
130. no, it's not up to her
Its up to the delegates at the convention. Obama will have the support of the majority of the delegates, and they will certainly go along with his choice. Forcing a running mate on a candidate is certain failure for both , and for the Dem Party. THAT'S the blunt political fact, as opposed to the hillbot altered reality that spews forth from her myriad of hate sites.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #130
135. the blunt fact is that she has enough delegates to force it if she wants it.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #135
137. That is false. She can fight for the party nomination, but once that is decided she has no say
She has no say in the VP slot

at all.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #137
139. ROFLMAO!!!!! So Silly!
:dunce:
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #139
141. I'm sorry if you find rules silly.
But the procedures make it such that it is impossible for anyone to be forced onto the ticket unless the nominee selects them.

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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #135
153. To force what? The nominee to do her will? Like this perhaps?


NGU.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #130
138. What Makes You Think They'd CERTAINLY Go Along With His Choice?
Many of those on his side still have strong loyalties to the Clintons regardless of their tough decision to choose Obama. But there was a HELL of a lot more at stake in their making that decision than if they chose her as VP. There'd be almost no political risk for them, but there'd be plenty political risk for them to rhetorically stab the Clintons in the back a second time, without nearly good enough reasons as they had for the first time.

She has a ton of delegates already on her side. She don't need a whole heck of a lot to agree from his side to pull it off, and there would be far more of them in that group that would be more scared of saying no, then of saying yes. Bank on it.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #138
143. Because if there was going to be a floor fight it would be over the top of the ticket, not the Veep
You have little understanding of rules and processes. You might want to bruch up on hwo things actualy work.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
142. Sorry I'm not convinced the SD's will hand her the VP just cause she demands it.
The Clinton's have taken a political beating over this primary and their political influence is wanning
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #142
144. It doesn't matter even if the Supers WANTED to do it. They haven't the power.
That's not the way the system works.

The supers cannot nominate anyone for the Veep slot.
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
147. Dream on Alice. Wonderland is just around the corner.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
148. Do you remember how we pressured Kerry to choose Edwards as his VP?
It turns out that preconceived ideas about "electability" don't always pan out.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
149. I know it to be incorrect
The delegates supporting Obama will allow him to structure his ticket as he sees fit, at least within reason. There are plenty of acceptable alternatives. It is just this simple, second place finishers do not get to "demand" anything, and in fact, making the "demand" will virtually assure that it does not happen.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #149
150. Exactly. That's the entire point of the rules committee meeting.
And Obama's delegates, who are the majority, will control the committee.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #149
183. excellent post.
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
152. The vetting process
It is highly unlikely that the Clintons would be willing to undergo the vetting process. In fact, given the vast amount of data that would need to be reviewed regarding the Clintons, it is doubtful that the process could be done in time for the convention. Senator Clinton may be squeeky clean but there are piles of paper that have never been seen. All of dealings regarding the library, business, and Pres. Clinton's coming and goings...all of them would be requested. The Clintons will not want to release any of this data.
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gmudem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
155. No. It's not. It's really not.
Obama can put whoever he wants there. Finishing 2nd in the primaries does not mean you get to be VP.

Hillary supporters are so delusional these days. Why on earth would Obama choose here as VP when she said McCain was more qualified for President?

Do you people even think about what you are saying?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #155
167. If She Wants It, It's Hers. Bank On It.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #167
168. Ignoring rules doesn't make them go away
You keep skirting the issue that it is impossible because there is no way for her name to get put out for a vote unless the nominee wants it.

That is fact.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #168
171. ROFLMAO!!!!!!
God I just LOVE how silly you are! Keeeeeeeppppp stompin your feet and repeating that over and over. It obviously means a lot to you.

:rofl:
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gmudem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #167
170. No that's not how it works.
If Obama wants her to be VP, that's the only way she can get it. Superdelegates won't be choosing Obama's VP, Obama will be choosing him. Convention delegates can't just vote for whoever the fuck they feel like, they vote for the person chosen by the Presidential nominee.

But it's really not worth responding to you because you mistakenly believe that that is possible, so I might as well argue with a mailbox.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
157. Yes It's True, And Here's How She'll Do It...


Take that you inferior Super Delegate!! Now obey my mighty will!!...

NGU.
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Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #157
165. ROFL!
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
163. Um...unless you are Barack Obama....it's actually not hers.
He gets to choose his VP.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
173. Yep...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6067792
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
176. If she wants to be the VP she needs to start acting like it.
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cjsmom44 Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
181. RE: Whaaaat?
What?
When hell freezes over....there is NO way ...the democrats would allow that to happen
She has NOT earned any part on the ticket NOR is she entitled to any part on the ticket
:eyes:
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
187. It's all about that convention...
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #187
188. People that don't know the rules drive me nuts.
They think it's made up as we go along or something.

There are rules and procedures and there is zero chance that Hillary can be nominatd and voted upon as the VP candidate unless the nominee puts their name forward for consideration.

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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #188
197. Here's one I know you haven't considered: there can be more than one (1) ballot
at the convention. After which numbers become fluid in likely both directions. You think they just kick the doors open, eat some hot-dogs, drink some beer, throw some confetti and that's it? I know I hope so. Wouldn't that be peachy? But you better keep some Neosporin, fresh field dressings, and hot water in close proximity...maybe some Advil,

Cause I don't think you're looking at what could be coming. The future favors the prepared don't kid yourself. And the rules, it is hoped, are to have been predicated upon fairness to all participants. How can it be otherwise?
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
192. Yep.
I'm beginning to see that.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
193. sharp learning curve ahead
heart break hotel, next stop
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
195. Barbara Boxer says he'll pick who he wants for VP. You know that, right?
Edited on Wed May-21-08 09:25 PM by AtomicKitten
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6060733&mesg_id=6060733
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
196. Wouldn't work for her that way
If Clinton can apply enough pressure so that Obama is convinced he NEEDS her as his VP she's got bargaining chips. She's not going to want to be a VP without power. 2016 is a long time from now. Too long for her to just hope that he has a successful enough administration that she'll get the nod after him. She'll want a voice in governance. If she's forced on him at the convention she can't make any such demands.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
198. One BIG problem with your theory, OMC.......
Edited on Wed May-21-08 10:38 PM by scheming daemons
Obama will "name" his VP choice 2 months before the convention. There will be momentum built up for that choice. The media will tout the choice. Obama and his choice will campaign together all summer.

By the time the convention comes, Obama and his choice will be a foregone conclusion. Signs will already have been made saying "Obama/{name} '08".

The delegates at the convention, when the roll call for VP comes, will *NOT* throw a monkey-wrench into the Obama campaign and reject the choice that he's been spending the summer campaigning with.

They will endorse the choice that has already been accepted in the minds of the people.

The roll call will be a formality.


There's no way in hell that the delegates, super or otherwise, will overturn the choice Obama made and campaigned on for two months.


Look for Obama to name his choice in mid-June. Hillary will be powerless to stop it when late-August rolls around.
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Genevieve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #198
203. Thank you for explaining it plain and simple.
I mean, hello?
I can't believe the re-writing of the rules by some people.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #198
235. Yep
;)
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
200. If Hillary wants back in the White House
she's going to have to take a tour like the rest of us. That's as close as she's going to get.
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
202. Nope. I've got first dibs. And I refuse to listen to iconicgnom haters!
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
204. Maybe a couple SDs agree with you, but
Hillary is going to need just about ALL of them to agree with this. Therein lies the problem. Too many of the superdelegates have come out saying that the choice should be Obama's, and that list grows every single day. Even Barbara Boxer, a staunch supporter of Hillary Clinton, said yesterday that Obama should be free to choose whoever he wants as V.P.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
206. See this is a sleazy post. Not because of the arrogance which is a staple of said poster
Edited on Thu May-22-08 01:22 AM by U4ikLefty
but because OMC can argue if Hillary is "not the VP, it's ONLY because she didn't ask to be."

..and if she gets the VP, OMC says it is because "she demands it behind the scenes."

It argues both sides & assumes that it is all up to Hillary.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #206
210. Ignore can be your best friend in times of insanity on DU. n/t
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
207. Hillary is white trash. How you going to sell it if she is on the ticket?
Won't work.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
208. Not even remotely true.
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
209. Aaah, so now comes the setup. "She wanted to lose, and turned down VP"
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
212. That is loser ticket.
She brings him down, not up.
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
213. This is pointless. Hillary doesn't want to be VP. She wants to watch the exit polls come in on
Election night that show she would have defeated McCain by 10 points, while Obama loses by 20.

And she will get to do that.

Steve
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #213
218. permalinked in my Idiotic/Asinine Predictions file
to be brought out the day after the GE to be jeered at.

and to disregard the fact that Hillary is at, what? 60% disapproval (and that was before she started her bullshit trash-talking and whiny-baby "sexist" BULLSHIT) and that many many republicans loathe her and would be moved to vote against her is sheer stupidity. She is the LEAST electable "democrat," of the field of 8 or so candidates we had. She was "selected" by the media because that was who they wanted running against McCain (remember how Edwards came in 2nd in Iowa, but his name was never even mentioned--it was nothing but Obama and Clinton, as though Edwards were invisible, and as though a 3rd-pace LOSER was worthy of 24/7 spin and admiration)--so anyway, your prediction is ridiculous and WILL be laughed at after President Obama wins the GE.
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #218
234. First of all, he is President-elect Obama the day after the election, if he wins.
Second, the only way he is going to win this thing is with a hell of a lot of help from Hillary. Third, will you be bringing the thread out if Obama loses by a wide margin and the exit polls show Hillary would have won by a wide margin? Or will you forget that you ever said this?

Steve
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:08 AM
Response to Original message
216. IF she bullies her way on the ticket, she becomes a fifth wheel
You know that, right?

Constitutionally, all she is as Veep will be the tie breaker in the Senate, and with a solid Dem majority she won't get to do that much.

Beyond that, any duties assigned besides waiting around for something to happen are 100% up to Obama.

How much do you think he'll really let her do?
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
219. Ahem:"OBAMA SAID NO-The Nightmare Ticket Is Dead"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6074987&mesg_id=6074987

:shrug:
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
220. Sure. Whatever you say boss.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
221. Don’t say another goddamn word. >:3

Up until now, I’ve been polite. If you say anything else—word one—I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one.

When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming—as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then, as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin.

I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

--Tycho
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #221
237. Uh - looks like he's gone!
You were bluffing - weren't you? Wow!
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #237
238. Penny Arcade
Check it out when they get the archive back up. There was a comic where Gabe said that Warhammer was a rip off of World of Warcraft and epic nerd rage ensued, yielding the above quote. :D

I've been looking for a good opportunity to drop that one for a while, and I'll bet I'll get to use it again soon, lolz.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
222. I don't agree with OMC much these days, but he could be right on this one
Edited on Thu May-22-08 12:48 PM by onenote
First, let's get the rules stuff out of the way. While the delegates generally defer to the presidential nominee's choice for VP, nothing says that they have to. When McGovern was nominated in 1972, his VP choice, Tom Eagleton, got less than 60 percent of the delegates to vote for him for the VP slot -- not quite as many as voted for McGovern. That situation hasn't repeated itself since because typically, the presidential nomination vote in pretty one sided and there is little question that the nominee will get sufficient delegate support for whomever the nominee selects as a running mate.

So, why could this year be different? Well, because the margin by which Obama wins the nomination -- and he will win the nomination -- will be decided by the Superdelegates. You will start out with a very divided base of pledged delegates and those pledged to Hillary will be very loyal to her and if she wanted to mount a fight for the VP nomination, they would back her. So it would come down to the SDs. If there are enough SDs who think that a "unity" ticket is a good idea, there isn't anything Obama can do to keep them in line. He will be put the choice of accepting HRC as the nominee or having a bruising, public battle.

Now, do I think that there are enough SDs supportive of a unity ticket? I have no idea, but its quite plausible that there are. This race is close and there are any number of SDs who are on board for Obama for president who have ties to and loyalties to the Clintons and/or may simply think that a unity ticket is a good idea. SDs who would like their constituents to see them as supportive of both HRC and Obama.

So it definitely could happen. I'm not as positive about it as OMC, but he could be right. If she wanted it enough, there could well be enough support from her pledged delegates and from Superdelegates that support Obama for VP but aren't that wedded to him and thus may feel free not to rubberstamp his VP choice -- or at least they may feel independent enough to attempt to influence that choice with the leverage that they have.

Personally, I don't see it happening because, notwithstanding what is being said and written, I don't think HRC wants the VP spot -- I don't see how she benefits from it. I could be wrong, however. And if she really does want it, the possibility of it getting even uglier than it is now cannot be written off.

Finally, for those upthread who kept demanding proof, here is a link to the Democratic Party's nomination rules. The portion dealing with the nomination of the VP is around page 17.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/f4225987fd9e438ef7_fqm6bev2k.pdf
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #222
223. Or
completely wrong
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #223
224. Not necessarily wrong
First, I have no way of knowing whether the story being reported that HRC asked for the VP slot and Obama rejected the request is true. But if it is true, the facts would suggest that HRC doesn't want to fight for it, not that she couldn't fight for it and, possibly get it.

Again, Obama controls the process, but only up to a point. If HRC wants to have an ugly fight for the VP spot, there is nothing that Obama can do to stop it from happening and while its not certain how it will come out, he could very well find himself under a lot of pressure to cave in. Of course, HRC will be under a lot of pressure not to push it, and hopefully that pressure prevails.

But if the issue is whether, if HRC pushes as hard as she can, she can force Obama to reconsider, the answer is a definite maybe.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #224
240. Yup - his statement was almost completely un-disprovable.
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haymakeragain Donating Member (841 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
225. What a surprise.
You're wrong. He isn't exactly a "typical" candidate and I don't think he or his campaign will make a typical decision, regardless of the whining.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
226. I don't think so. She clearly wants it - Bill wants it, too.
But I don't see the party throwing it to her.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
227. If that were to happen, we'd go from a probable loss to a sure loss in November
Worst of both worlds....
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
228. Ugh, this shit again...
Edited on Thu May-22-08 02:22 PM by EnviroBat
"VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP! VP!"
:eyes:
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
229. LOL, you're wrong again!
Do you ever get tired of being wrong, OPERATIONMINDCRIME?

:rofl:
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
230. This was very funny.
And so many people bit on it. Good one OMC.
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
232. Um, last I checked, doesn't the nominee get some say over his VP?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #232
242. yes, but only to a point
The delegates that are loyal to the nominee will undoubtedly respect his wishes when it comes to the VP slot. But there is no guarantee that the delegates that strongly support HRC will go along, particularly if HRC signals that she wants a fight on this. Then its up to the SDs, some of whom are very loyal to Obama, some of whom are very loyal to HRC and some of whom are conflicted -- they may have endorsed one or the other, but they may have their own views on what the best ticket would be. If there are enough Obama SDs that think a "unity" ticket is a good idea, they could try to force that idea down Obama's throat and he might not be able to resist it, since the alternative -- an ugly floor fight and a long drawn out roll call for the VP slot, would be a disaster for the party. On the other hand, if there are enough SDs, including SDs that support HRC, that realize that a floor fight would be a disaster, and that don't see a unity ticket as the only answer, they might be able to apply pressure to HRC to drop the fight by arguing that without their support, the only outcome is that she suffers a humiliating defeat while still damaging the party.

My guess is that, notwithstanding what you may read elsewhere, HRC isn't really that interested in the VP slot and will not fight for it. I could be wrong, but I just don't see much upside for her in being number two on the ticket.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
239. God, you again.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 07:50 PM by superduperfarleft
What an argument. You're basically arguing something that can't be proven ("Hillary will get it if she wants it") that leaves you looking in the right no matter what happens ("See! She got it because she wanted it!" or "See! She didn't get it because she didn't want it!")

And as usual, you act like a condescending ass to anyone who tries to engage you. You might want to look up the difference between "fact" and "opinion."

You can't possibly be this obnoxious in real life, but if so, I feel sorry for your wife and kids.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
241. She's lost a good amount of her clout.
Consider Florida and Michigan. She's ASKING that they be counted. A year ago, she could have stated that they'd count...and they would.

That's blunt fact reality. Not that I care. I don't like her, and I don't really care for Obama either.
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