Does this idiot realy think she can STEAL the nomination and the Obama supporters will vote for her

She is CRAZY if she thinks thats how it would turn out

And she'll be running on the "I told you so" platform when it will be her that caused the loss.

lose this one, bush's would like a cake walk..

You also lose points for "knowing" why someone else is doing something, when you don't, period. If Obama is the nominee and loses the GE, it will fall squarely on HIS shoulders and no one else's, isn't that what his "personal responsibility" and "change" platform are all about. It will be only the deluded that will blame a loss on someone else. And for the sports challenged (sorry, I see several posts regarding sports analogy although an election has absofuckinglutely nothing to do with sports) this would be like losing the super bowl and claiming it was the team you played in preseason that caused you to lose. Losers make excuses, end of story.

George Bush's second term.

I'd say there are a few factors in play, not the least of which is an easily duped electorate.

I think you will find the answer by following the money in the fund raising results announced today. Let's recap what we know:

1) The nomination numbers are overwhelming. Obama already has locked up the majority of pledged delegates, and only needs about 25 more superdelegates to lock up the nomination outright, assuming a likely split of the remaining three contests. She is not running to win the nomination according to the rules.

2) She seems determined to screw up the convention. Most people attribute this to blind ambition, but I no longer believe that is the explanation. Nobody can be that blind. Even if she were able to grab the nomination somehow, she would be trounced in the general election because a) she can't raise enough money, b) 90% of the Republicans have despised her for decades, and c) a big percentage of the Democrats are now coming to that same place. She must understand that and she also understands the odds of stealing the nomination are practically zero, so that is not her purpose.

3) That leads to a very logical conclusion that what she wants to do is really fuck up Obama's changes, but leave herself in the "I told you so" position.

That is logical, but I think it is wrong. Here's why. If she did that, all the insiders would see through that. And she would be held in the same esteem the Party has for Ralph Nader. Actually, her treason would be far worse than Nader's, because this election is highly winnable -- our best chance for a major realignment for the past 30 years, and maybe for the next 20. People have a long memory of that. Combine that with the fact that she is not getting any younger, and I just don't see 2012 as the goal here. It may be a "back of the mind" thing, but I don't see it explaining her actions.

After all, we all know it is bound to be a very tough fight for Obama against the GOP Swift Boaters anyway. If she really wanted to posture for 2012, she would be far more statesman-like and gracious in her public stance, and the Clinton posse would be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo Obama's run. That would leave her in a very strong position to pick up the pieces if Obama failed.

What she is doing works AGAINST a 2012 run. If 2012 were the goal, she'd be playing it differently.

So what is she up to then?

It isn't really that complicated. It doesn't require a psychoanalyst. It is just about money. We know money means a lot to the Clintons. While Jimmy Carter and Al Gore have devoted themselves to selfless causes, Bill was out grabbing as much money as he possibly could on the legal-bribe-for-influence circuit, also known as the speaking circuit. If you follow that money, I expect you will find Bill has been getting his "speaker fees" from mostly the same forces that have funded GHW Bush. With the Clintons, money triumphs over principle. They rarely demonstrated much principle while in office, and even less out of office.

It is not complicated. Hillary today announced results that she compiled a STAGGERING amount of campaign debt in April. On the surface, that appears completely irrational. Why would a candidate do that in the very month when the numbers became impossible? It makes no sense to spend another $30M and go another $10M in debt when you know that the expenditure cannot possibly get you enough electors to win the nomination? If she had done this in the 30 days after Super Tuesday, that would be very rational. But doing it in April makes no sense whatsoever if the motive is to gain the nomination, or even to set up for 2012.

So how could that behavior make any sense? Simple. It isn't her money. She has assurances that the debt will be taken care of. She and Bill will find themselves receiving another $100,000,000 in laundered money, which is plenty to retire the campaign debt and still be $70M ahead. Would you sell your soul for $70M?

Would Hillary? Yes, I believe she would, and she has. It is no coincidence that the very month when this bizarre spending frenzy fired up, she was on air with Limbaugh, had private meetings with Scaife, and was a guest on Faux. That is what is happening here, folks. I know it is hard to accept that a person is not who we thought she was, but the facts tell the story. Bill was able to "earn" the $100,000,000 because his backers assumed there was a good chance that Hillary would be President and then their "generosity" would be repaid hundreds of times over. Now that it is clear the Hillary will never be President, Bill's stock as a "valued speak" is in the tank. There simply isn't another $100,000,000 in the cards for Bill. So Hillary has cut her own deal.

Hillary gets no political benefit from the course she is on. Quite the opposite. She is ruined for the rest of her life as a national politician. But she gets more wealth then she ever dreamed of. And the Scaife operation DOES get something of great benefit to them. Hillary gives them a very real shot at surviving the Bush meltdown and installing another friendly puppet in office in John McCain. $100,000,000 to these guys is nothing at all. So both Scaife and Hillary end up with something they value, and neither had to give up much in return. Scaife's mob had to give up what was pocket change for them, and Hillary had to give up her integrity. They both look upon this as a winning trade.

They already have $100 million. She and her husband and daughter need never want for anything material.
What she risks -- integrity, reputation, further tarnishing Bill's legacy AND the possibility of losing power forever -- I still don't see why she'd do it for just more money.

She will not be president, no matter how many rules she breaks.

I'm so mad at her today I can't see straight. I hate her with every fiber of my being. But I would vote for her.

I went into debt for Kerry. I will not do that for Hillary.

While I'm very concerned about the courts, I'm not all that sure Hillary would be better than McCain on lots of issues. I think she will have to prove herself a tough guy by invading another country or something.

And if she's run such a horrid campaign, not being able to see the path to victory and is so far in debt, how will she run the country? Bill made it work because he has a great personality but she does not.

But then again how many democrats will be left after the blood bath?

and that's nothing. She's making a huge strategic blunder
and with her numbers plummeting, her campaign is going
to be pounded into the ground. What a pointless shame.
She could have gone out on a high note.

I'm thoroughly disgusted with Hillary.

her job is to get the nomination. If she and McCain are the nominees, it doesn't matter to her corporate backers which one actually wins. Their goal is simply to stack the deck in their favor.

... she can believe anything.

You are exactly right.

And Obama's camp needs to crush her. Now. Whatever it takes.

I fucking hate her and I wouldn't vote for her if she were the only candidate on a ballot.

Hope!
Change!
New poltics!

I'm not part of anyone's campaign. But I have my strong opinion and the Clintons threw poor people under the bus in the 1990s and now she's playing like she's ms populist? comparing her "struggle" to civil rights and the suffragette movement?

In one way it would be easier if she won because then I would just say fuck it and give up b/c it's just crony crooks as usual, whether democratic or republican.

How nice.

FYI, Obama has not yet won the nomination so it cannot be stolen.

or a Republican. Take your pick.

It's all about her and fuck anybody and anything that stands in her way.

I hate to say it, but the right wing was right about her.

and not conservative enough. We're a different audience.

And if she tries to put the party through a mangle to try to force our hand, she can kiss her future aspirations as a candidate goodbye.

I think you can advocate negotiation with a rational actor. It is a thing that I agree with Obama on.

But once you've gone back and forth with the opposition, presented all your best arguments and they tell you, it is their way or no way (it ain't over to 'til the lady in the pantsuit says it's over) THEN YOU HAVE ONE OR TWO OPTIONS: let them win or you beat them.

Hillary Clinton is not going to get another chance, not in 2012, not in 2016 not ever. I think the DNC and the rest have pacified this person enough. Now it is time to beat her.

Either the SD step into the arena and declare their votes (I'm assuming Clinton is currently wolfin' because she has enough SD to hang up the process for the next 3 months) OR Obama needs to stop being conciliatory AND run the GE campaign. No one can make her stop campaigning, gathering donations, going on television programs or spreading her message of disenfranchisement across the country. It doesn't matter that the FL delegation already went to the federal court to get their vote reinstated and their case was dismissed/DNC won. The facts don't matter in this situation.


Clinton is going to go forward and do whatever she feels like she needs to do. If her supporters and her want to mount a movement about life not being fair when you lose, don't hold them back and don't stand in their way.

If FL and MI vote for McCain because they believe this crap that Clinton is pedaling than BHO could not speak through the foggy haze Clinton is giving. I repeat: she does not have more popular votes, she does not have more states, she does not have more pledged and superdelegates. If her campaign staff and her donors stick with her through this futile exercise, so be it.


At the end of the day, she has made her choice. We have to make ours.

And she also doesn't care if they don't. She thinks she only has to carry a dozen states and the precious is hers.

no matter what, the party is going to unite!

Yeah Wolfson, get the fuck outta here!

They can try if they want to..all I can say is..it ain't gonna be pretty and people ain't gonna just roll over and say, oh yes, Hillary is the nominee...it's all good!

Fuckin' nutcake he is..and she is..if they think that..

I'd be out the first minute I heard about it.

she actually believes it. :crazy:

isn't stealing. Don't be silly.

The nomination isn't Obama's. It can't be "stolen" from him.

The desperation here is getting thicker and thicker.

Watch Lisa Caputo on Dan Abrams makes me believe she knows what she is selling is CONVOLUTED.

We can react every time she says something crazy or we can accept that she has hit a new floor and keep it moving. There is nothing to see.

When Lisa Caputo tried to defend Ferraro's current set of statements, I have to believe it is a coordinated effort on Hillary's part.


I think the DNC rules will listen to her statements comparing them to foreign nations' elections, the 2000 vote between Gore v. Bush in FL, and some other conflated civil rights mangling and hear what the rest of us hear: raw hubris.

If this is where she is, we have to accept the spectacle.

What a great job.

Only Elites Need Apply
I guess is the corporate model.

i'm SURE that they would vote for the DEMOCRAT as they've been telling waffling hillary supporters to do!

hillary will be disgraced and carried off the stage; just what she is ordering now. sick sick. look at bill!! he wants to be back in the white house that he soiled. no, enough!!!! america is not a dynasty. carry your bags and go home. and ny would be nuts to allow a dementia to be representing them .

and neither will my children.