Rachel Maddow: "Democratic Chances of Winning WH in Bad Shape"

She says we have 10 days to get our shit together, and if we don't, it's done. She says the Party is drifting without a rudder and we will lose if we wait until the Convention, as we saw in 68, 80, etc. If the Dems wait another three months, McCain will have a 7 month head start and he will win. We may see him as Bob Dole, but we only see Bob Dole as Bob Dole because Clinton had 7 months to define Dole.

She says it may already be too late--there cannot be an ongoing fight that goes to the convention if we want to have a prayer, but even if we solve it sooner rather than later, it may be too little to late.

Thom Hartmann was calmer and called for a unity ticket.

cast dispersions?

hire someone more competent than yourself to compose your thoughts in English?

I understand the Democratic rules. I don't need Rachel Maddow to interpret them for me. I happen to like Rachel but the acrimony in this election has seized so many people that it's hard to tell which voices are accurate.

Actually, there are several things that can happen after the May 31st committee meeting, ALL of which would have the ability to cause the dissention past the June 3rd primaries and on into August.

Further, many of the rules options come from committee people and do not involve the Clintons at all.

I hope you do not cast aspersions on yourself.

(yes, I know you are a woman)

you said: Actually, there are several things that can happen after the May 31st committee meeting, ALL of which would have the ability to cause the dissention past the June 3rd primaries and on into August. (you might want to learn how to spell; it's dissension, not dissention).

Oh and another thing, you are a prime example of why I avoid GDP like the plague. you are now blocked.

dissention
One entry found.

dissension

Main Entry: dis·sen·sion
Variant(s): also dis·sen·tion \di-ˈsen(t)-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French discension, from Latin dissension-, dissensio, from dissentire
Date: 14th century
: disagreement; especially : partisan and contentious quarreling
synonyms see discord

Apologize for the misspelling. I'm happy to correct my spelling errors. If I hadn't been at happy hour drinking a beer, I'd have laughed you off the page.........

Cordially,

Grandma Cowgirl

PS. I have "special parts" -- and since I am not a male, why am I a cowboy. I can't figure out why you said that, but.... maybe making me a man salves something in your ego?

PPS. Who the hell cares?

:grr:

Maddow is ALL style and NO substance. She's irritating and way OVEREXPOSED!!!

Everyday I listen to her and learn something new. And the people she interviews, boy are simpletons, huh?

And if only she was funny and had a sense of humor.

Welcome to DU. I look forward to your 3rd composition.

douche

Concerning Clinton continuing the race, for good or ill, when other pundits have predicted her conceding by now.

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Sorry you have to bring him up.

:puke:

that's a charming quality.

Are you happy now?

I'm going to play with the living horses.

(acquired from DUer QC)

and shows best how badly we are fucked by this continuing, quixotic battle over what Rachel called "political minutiae." So far, McCain has not been successful, I think, in defining Sen Obama, but every distraction from Camp Clinton is one less moment we can give to the real opponent.

He was nominated at the convention.

People, our entire government is a shame. Republicans, Democrats and Media, one big cesspool of crime, corruption, manipulation and deceit, including Maddow. In a real and fair election none of the remaining so-called "front-running" candidates would even be considered. To even mention that McInsane has a chance is insane in of itself.

But he will win, and it's not because of what Maddow is saying, it's because before election bush&co will attack Iran (unless stopped - which I don't see happening because of the spineless, ignorant, self-absorbed sheep that populate this country) and between $8 gas, food riots, Marshall Law imposed by bush, propaganda spewed by a compliant media, e-voting, caging lists and a massive state of war, I'll bet my remaining worthless dollars I have that McInsane will be POTUS with Jeb as his VP.

Any takers?

Put up or shut up Hillary supporters! Our country is on the line! ARE YOU STUPID?????

They are what's dividing this party...not Clinton! But right now they are too hateful and rude.

and this is a completely accurate microcosm of the world at large.

:sarcasm:

How weird. On my AAR station, they simulcast Race to the WH during the 3 PM (PT) hour and then go to her show. I always thought every other station was doing that, too. D'uh.

supporters, do not understand this, They think it's okay to wait until June 3rd, and that Hillary will back out then. She won't. Rachel also said that the only reason Hillary is making a big stink about MI and FLA (even though neither will help her win) is because she wants to drag the process out by appealing the committee's ruling. Apparenly, an appeal can't be resolved until August. So yes, this is do or die and more people need to start saying this and understanding it.

Anybody have that URL for the lists?

...is your representatives in Washington, DC.
You can urge them write a bill that would change the procedure for primaries. Perhaps you'd rather just have the head of the party appoint the nominee? Forget the campaigning and the voting. That seems to be what is being advocated by Obama supporters. OH, that and not counting votes of the people. Yep, I think an appointment might be the way to go to satisfy the Obama supporters who post on this site. Voting and counting the votes is just too cumbersome.

So Rachel Maddow isn't pleased with the way we select presidential nominees. Perhaps she can write the bill that takes the power from the people and gives it to the media.

they added South Carolina and Nevada to the forefront.
These states will rotate...

If everyone went on the same day, there would be
"campaigning" in only 4 or 5 states.

Not EVERY ONE can go first.

Here is a state by state listing for the superdelegates:
http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegates-who-havent-endorsed.html

Just set a rule saying any state can have their primary after Jan 1 (or some other set date) at any time. They could all go on Jan 2 if that's what they wanted.

Candidates would only campaign where they
specifically needed to. Maybe four of five
states....

Edited to add:

Florida would just jump the set date,
anyway...

OBVIOUSLY.

We're looking at President McCain

Plan B -- get enuf seats in Congress to stop him at every turn.

I'm all for Clinton staying in the race until Montana casts the last vote. But if this goes to the convention we are f'ed. :-(

"We may see him as Bob Dole, but we only see Bob Dole as Bob Dole because Clinton had 7 months to define Dole."

She is only using fear tactics....:scared: ...........it's okay, I understand her motive....This is to be expected. :smoke:

On to the Convention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:woohoo:

She hasn't come out in support of either one of the candidates.

Because AFIK the media has a huge stake in keeping the shitpot stirred until convention.

It gives them something to cover - and an opportunity to bash Obama and regurgitate Puke talking points ad infinitem without ever having to put McLame on TV.

if this process keeps going until august, you might as well start thinking about how the world will be after mcsame bombs Iran.

it's been 100% obvious for a very long time who she is supporting.;

this happened to the Labour Party in Britain and various others because of some internal problem.

LISTEN THIS CANNOT HAPPEN here. Hillary has her votes and by June 3 it is over - period. She agreed to Florida and Michigan - no deals.

Howard Dean has said so finish it by June 3rd or else - end of story!

and it won't get decided until the convention.

9 days and counting. After which, if there is no clear candidate and it goes to a brokered convention, you might as well start thinking about how the world will be like under mcsames insane rule.

why can't Hillary? Exactly.... either she's suffering delusions of grandeur or she wants to politically knee-cap him as much as possible before the GE.

as long as it goes to committee on June 1st, nothing will be decided until the convention. during the 3 month period of time, Hillary believes that she can sway the supers into supporting her.

she wants to be run for prez at any cost, including the destruction of the Democratic party.

Who cares about the fact that Hillary keeps winning states by 40 points?!

without utterly, and inexorably, rending the party.

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enough of the spin

in a few states by 50 points in February. There is a reason he is the presumptive nominee.

All the candidates knew the rules before Iowa ... democracy is also very much about everyone abiding by and accepting the results based on the same standards.

Caucuses count.
The nomination process is a race for delegates, not popular vote.

Michigan and Florida flouted the agreed upon rules -- there are consequences for violations in a democracy.

It all means that Obama has won fair and square.

So what is Hillary's problem?

Does she think she deserves special consideration because she is a woman? Because she is a Clinton?

On the other hand, the longer she keeps up this petulant, wronged female act -- the more she is looking like, well, a power-hungry, delusional nut.

So, let 'er rip, Hill!

the Democratic party has NEVER, and I do mean NEVER, kept a state's delegates from voting at the convention, no matter how they broke the rules. The rules used to be that you couldn't have an open primary, WI had an open primary anyway, the "committee" moaned groaned and threatened away. But guess what, WI delegates were allowed in anyway. Bottom line - what's more important - rules or people's votes? I'm sorry, I was there in Miami when the Repugs were creating havoc in 2000. If I can't forgive the Repugs for making bad rules to keep from counting people's votes, why should I tolerate it in my own party?

I'm talking FL votes here. I really don't see how Michigan's votes can be counted with only one candidate on the ballot?

:eyes:

And Obama had similar or bigger margins against her in many states -- yes, including primaries.

spoiled brats throwing a temper tantrum in Wal-Mart."

The supporters of the other defeated candidates accepted the losses with dignity. Only (some of) Hillary's supporters have showed such inability to accept defeat.

and she's only won TWO by more than 40%...that's hardly "keep winning states by 40 points". whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose...

Texas/not, Ohio after a farce story about NAFTA, and Indiana by a hair. Oh Don't forget KY and WV. Feel free to boast. About what I don't know.

and you boast about 40 point wins in places like Kentucky and West Virginia - where a majority of even Democrats look down on people who aren't white - my family is from one of those states - and I know how a majority, of even DEMS, thinks. We aren't talking 40 point wins in NY, CA, GA, IL, TX etc... those were all close - but she's LOST.

She needs to stop destroying our chances #1, because it's not about her as she shows, but #2, so she doesn't stain the Clinton legacy any further than it's already been stained by scandal and poor policy that worked against the poor and lower classes.

To have Barack Obama actually be our nominee is so ground shaking that getting him in is going to be hard enough with all the out-n-about and closeted racists.

I feel for people that don't see the damage she's doing to the nominee - she lost.

The country enjoyed record prosperity, we were loved around the world. Clinton passed the greatest law ever to help out working men and women with FMLA. For that alone, he should be lionized forever. There are 10's of thousands of people who have jobs today that wouldn't otherwise without him. He stopped a major terrorist threat and had BinLaden in his sights when Bush came into office and vetoed killing Osama.

Yes, Clinton has his personal meltdown, but by and large he was a boon to the country and anyone who claims otherwise is either clueless or doesn't care about wage earners.

he caved in on the policies backed in the NAFTA disaster, DOMA, and the Welfare Reform act. There's million of people who don't have the jobs today that they would otherwise without Clinton's meddling with the trade concessions.

There was very good and very bad during his tenure - far better than B*sh, but still, such a letdown when things could have been better for poor & lower wage earning Americans - but NEVER would I compare the relative success of the Clinton campaign compared to the absolute failure and downright obvious hatred of Americans as a whole.

...or just FORGET it and not bother.

THEY NEED TO DEMAND that all uncommited SDs commit NOW. AND that Hillary wrap it up and leave the party - for the SURVIVAL of the party.

Or else, - yep I agree with Maddow - we're through.

TAke a look, folks. We have pulled are hair out, especially the last two years, as our Dems have done fucking nothing. I'm beginning to see that they are corrupt to the core. The SD aren't coming out because the Clinton's still control the power structure of the party MONEY MONEY MONEY and they are scared shitless. Take a look at all these undeclared CA delegates. CA is Clinton owned. Obama might be able to win but they don't care. They want "da money".

can beat McCain.

Maddow's got to ratchet the rhetoric down.

No Republican will win with gas at 6 bucks a gallon.

I want leading Supers like Nancy Pelosi to endorse Obama before the all important May 31st meeting, so Clinton will be motivated to step aside. She needs a very strong push before that meeting. She hasn't stopped doing destructive things and having her surrogates also clobber the party with their foolish lies.

The speaker of the house has so little confidence in herself that she can't even stand up to the arguably least popular president in history. What makes you think that she will go against the first family of the democratic party?

first family

but I was distracted. Did anyone else hear it? She was asked about endorsing either candidate, and it sounded like she said she wouldn't endorse until the convention so that she could be an honest broker.

If it is, that means others will use the same tactic and allow this thing to carry on. Sigh.

Say hello the president McCain

Iran War..

And likely Martial Law

ACT.
NOW.

1980 we had someone going after a sitting President, which is bound to cause irreprable rifts. Not Teddy's finest choice, IMO.

In 1968, everything was massively f*cked up.

In 2008 we've got 2 great candidates that people love, they just, 55-45 love one more than the other.

Now I'm all for ending this thing NOW (with my candidate way out on top ;) ), but in no case do I think we're in trouble in November. The only thing that will really hurt us is is people saying stuff they can't take back. Like Clinton endorsing McCain. I think she's sucessfully taken that back, but she has to watch that kind of thing. Similarly, Obama needs to be kind to Clinton so her supporters don't hold a grudge.

Nothing is lost, nor will it be. Either of these two fine candidates could destroy McCain without even trying.

David

That's a typically misogynist label for women who speak their minds.

a uterus. or at least she did have at one point, although it may have gone wandering.

Wandring? What?

is rooted in the belief that they hysteric suffers from "wandering womb" syndrome. That is why hysteria and hysterectomy have the same root.

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
(in 10 days or so)

No Peace

It goes to committee after the 31st and then it doesn't get decided until the convention.

That's another 3 months that mcsame gets a free ride.

and another 3 months we will be behind.

have fun celebrating mcsames nomination. I won't.

With the rudder jammed he was a sitting duck to be shelled.

Clinton going to the convention is going to Jam the rudder and the republicans will launch a Blitz and win.

Pelosi will you act or will you try to cover your political ass!

I think there is more evidence pointing in the opposite direction.

this one
is that what this country needs?

I have nothing good to say about Bill and Hillary anymore. Nothing.

The public is sick and tired of the crap the so called "leaders" hand out. Obama was pegged as
the option to "throw the bastards out." If he comes off of his fence straddling (e.g., advisers
like Brzezinski) and develops a sincere populist, pro life (as in pro environment anti war) platform
then he'll get the people back.

Obama's electoin will happen without "The Clinton" and the public will be thrilled. If Obama then
delivers on real programs for the people and stops trying to be liked by the failures and crooks who
have us on the brink of extinction as a species, he will be our greatest president because he overcame
the greatest difficulties.

You're right on the Clinton's. Her behavior since NC has been a complete give away - she wants to
destroy him. Quite a spectacle.

I don't know that Obama is fence straddling, I really think he's a totally centrist Dem type. He has voted to fund the war in Iraq many times. I don't see any principled stand there or really anywhere with him. I do not expect much from him at all in the way of change when he's elected, and I'm sad about that. He's got way too much support from wall st. to really make big changes, very unfortunately. Edwards would bring real change, that's why the media "forgot" him to death. Their master were afraid of Edwards, but not Obama.

So, no, he's not going to be our savior or even a great president. There's absolutely no question however, that he will be 100% better than the alternative or all war all the time McCain. I'll vote for middle of the road over far right any day!!!
!

Obama can let the public define him. If he doesn't, he's in for trouble. The masses understand
the urgency of getting out of Iraq and paying attention to the economy and also the world threat
from eco-catastrophes. FDR campaigned on a "balanced budget" but it didn't take long to change
that. I see Obama as almost apolitical but also I see him as smart enough to catch the train
before it leaves the station, and it will. The people are really pissed off when you just
scratch the surface. He's the positive expression of that. If he figures it out or if he gets
a clear notice, then he may just come on board. If not, it's time to just ignore the whole damn
thing and create an alternative culture of regional entities that do the right thing. The pin
striped crew doesn't know how close to the end of the line they are. It's over. No more b.s. from
the normal suspects.

making obama the nominee the dems will lose in november. Damn! Results out of Pa. Ohio, WV,Kentucky, Indiana, should tell anyone that.

"Of the 32 primaries since New Hampshire from which delegates have been allocated, Obama has won 16. But in doing so, he got a majority of the white votes in just six of the 32 contests. And while winning four of the eleven primaries held since March 4,Obama won a majority of the white vote in only two — Vermont, Oregon."

Since Wisc.HRC has gained over 400,000 more votes then obama, and again this should tell you obama is too damn weak to win.

If I understand this statement, Obama won white people in only 7 out of 40 states? Maybe I am wrong but it sure looks right. Seems to me if Obama gets the nomination, I wonder where he will get 40 Million African Americans on that day in November.

You might keep that in mind. And her name is Rachel Maddow, not Maddox.

we're in big trouble.

it's about the supers getting off their fat asses and making a choice.

I could give a flying fuck who gets the nomination, I just want someone!! And fast.

This can not go to the convention.

Convention = lost election.

voter trends in swing states have been going our way and there has been historic turnouts in the democratic primaries, but Rachel Maddow says our chances are in bad shape...

to the Senate, NO run for Democratic Nomination, NO GE run for the Presidency ... do NOT pass "GO" but go directly back to NY State. Good Riddance!?! :grr: :nuke:

Maybe Arkansas can be talked into taking her??

The transcript is probrably up on msnbc.

check out the podcast.

We will be fine.

He's hit the Pelosi number. It's a question of when, not if.

She wants Hillary to quit. That's why she won't tell you that Obama leads McCain by 10% per Zogby. As member of the group-thinking MSM, Maddow has to memorize the script: "We lose if Hillary goes all the way".

Please.

then Obama won't be the first Black President.

I think she's overdramatizing here. The primary season is almost over, everybody had a chance to vote. There's still plenty of time to draw the contrast between our nominee and John McCain. So much can happen between now and November, I don't think anybody should make predictions one way or the other.

He didn't have 7 months as the Candidate.

that Obama needs to push harder for her to get out of the way, even if that translates into people labeling him as "mean". I have a tendency to agree. I understand he's trying to be respectful of her and let her come around on her own terms, but I'm not entirely convinced she'll leave without a push.

There are some who will label him sexist for it, misogynistic - but I think there is more to lose if he doesn't act in a more forceful way particularly now that she's hinting at letting this go all the way to the convention.

Can they magically take away her delegates? How, within the party rules, do they do what you're asking?

Bake

and I wanted to send her the photos from Maitland.

Here is another funny (imo) video

Add it to your channel if you like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxVZi1-kUvM

I have not been on DU long enough to post it myself

i have faith in obama and his team

While I would much prefer to have a nominee by now, if the process gets dragged out until the convention, McCain and the Repugs will have to run against two candidates throughout the summer. Meanwhile, we know who their candidate is, and can be honing our strategy against him until we have our candidate. That may not necessarily be a bad thing for us.

We just need a nominee sometime soon.

Look at it this way, the Democrats are still fighting to get their nominee and both candidates beat McCain, or he at best is even with them. No one tearing him down and that's the best he can do? I'm not much worried.

What will happen to our country if McCain wins? I think the guy is senile and will be so easy for the NeoCons to manipulate just like Bush. I don't understand why this is happening in a year we were supposed to be able to win it all! :cry:

We don't have a candidate, so how do you win the White House without a candidate?

When we get a candidate, we will win.

Obama has already begun to focus on John McCain, and given the way he overtook Hillary in such a short amount of time, there is no reason to suspect he won't do the same with McCain, if not better, because he is fighting a Republican rather than a fellow Democrat. We need to have more faith in Barack Obama, dammit!

Its only served to choose the weakest candidate to put up against the GOP in a non-proportional race.

Incredibly dumb.

You know, sometime BEFORE the primary was already underway and the candidate of your choice was losing.

At least in this election cycle. Proportional voting works when you have scores of Republican's crossing over to vote for Hillary just so they can see her as the nominee.

Why complain about it now when you guys weren't complaining about it at any other point during the campaign (or any campaign in recent history)?

If they really wanted Hillary's run to end, they could end it, TODAY. Period.

So why haven't they? Why hasn't Obama won this thing already? McLame wrapped up the Puke nomination months ago. What's Obama's problem?

Bake

I'd even go so far as saying that anybody who disagrees is in denial. We're in bad shape folks and wishful thinking isn't going to suddenly make 6 months on non stop infighting magically go away.

But at least her Corporate cronies will be safe. That being the case, she can continue to be a DLC drone, and get the kickbacks from all the special interests.

It's Instant Karma (TM)!... Now with more molecules!

I don't agree with that assessment. I have more faith in our party's membership than that. Now I have found that faith misplaced occasionally, so... maybe she's got this one right.

I don't agree with that assessment. I have more faith in our party's membership than that. Now I have found that faith misplaced occasionally, so... maybe she's got this one right.

$4.50 a gallon. If American's put another Republican in the WH for 2009 after all that's happening this year then we might as well give up and concentrate on finding another country where people aren't terminally stupid.

Watch for it.

People don't get any attention for being happy, chipper, good-newsers. I don't care what Rachel Maddow says. I think we're winning the WH this year.

Obama is ahead of McCain in the polls and widening his lead continuously over the last month, despite all the fighting. How bad could it be?

I think she's just so angry this is not over and Hillary won't drop out. On TV she said Obama himself will have to push her out without looking mean-spirited. That would be one hell of a tight rope. I think she's also mad at Obama for not being a little tougher.

If twelve days makes the difference between McCain and Obama
then it's already over. We cant win.

I don't believe that Though. McCain is yet to be introduced to the American
people. Obama will do so after that date and when the people see
what we see it really will be over, For McCain.

if Rachel is correct in what she said before, because Clinton will go all the way to the convention no matter who wins what. "Pushing her out" sounds like a good idea on paper, but how? She has a right to stay in the race with or without any valid reason, so how could it be possible to "push her out" without violating due process?

I already made my argument about the convention here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6079275&mesg_id=6079976

As for Bob Dole, Clinton had 7 months to define Bob Dole because Dole maxed out his spending limits in the primary and couldn't spend any more money until after the convention. Clinton didn't have a primary opponent so he could spend all of his money before the convention attacking Dole. That's one of the major perks of incumbency advantage.

And frankly McGramps is just as broke as Dole was. Meanwhile Obama is rolling in cash and hasn't taken any federal matching funds so he's not limited in what he can spend. The DNC is going to run attack ads this summer against McCain and the RNC is going to run them against Obama. The difference is that Obama will have the cash to put his own ads on the air to respond to the attacks and convey the message that he wants to. McCain will have to rely on the RNC to respond for him.

Oh..and don't even think about 2012, it is a non starter and you be lucky if you have not been exiled from the party by them.

:sarcasm:

And they don't teach this kind of stuff in school.

Obama isn't panicking. Neither am I.

dropped out back in February. Damn. Doesn't she know you are supposed to quit when you are barely behind. I've loved watching this historical primary fight. It wouldn't have been good for either one of them to drop out until to one of them was at least hundreds of delegates behind and Ted Kennedy didn't even do that. You don't put everything you have into running for president, truly believing you are the best candidate to win in the GE and simply drop out when there still is the slightest chance things could go your way.

I believe Obama has this wrapped up. I believe the threats of rioting in the streets if the SuperD's for some reason chose to pick Hillary. That's my question again, if the SuperD's would simply declare who they are for NOW, they could take what little wind out of the sails that Hillary has. It would let her know that even a go ahead in the popular vote is not going to bring them around to her side.

It's the SuperD's fault if the Dems lose. They could have ended this before June 3rd.

Then, if the credentials commitee did get tied up until the Convention deciding Florida and Michigan, it would be after the nomination has been given to Obama by pledge and SuperD counts.

Unless she has a crystal ball, she doesn't know any more than you, I or anyone else does about it...

fault.