My simple statement about Hillary Clinton and the nomination end game.

I can understand many things. I can accept many things. Sometimes I can even sort of understand things that I can't understand and accept things that I can't accept. The world can be funny that way.

No one runs for President without having a big ego. No one runs for President without believing that they have some unique gift to offer America that voters should reject only at their own peril. And no one runs for President who can't sharpen their elbows when need be.

Politics is about many things but power is at the root of all of them. Power to do good, power to do evil, but power in every case. At other times and in other places in the world power changes hands literally over many dead bodies.

So I am not shocked to see anyone in politics play their hand to the max until the final cards have been dealt. In labor/management disputes, in pending lawsuits, frequently no agreement between adversaries is in sight and rhetoric stays heated until a deal is struck and that agreement is signed off on. And then the minutia of that dispute, one that potentially dominated headlines for weeks, becomes just yesterday's news, replaced by a picture of a handshake and a smile.

OK, that is my prelude, here is my simple statement. This contest must be over by June 10th. Democrats need to unify behind our candidate by then. Hillary Clinton can make her best case, can play her best hand, and can employ her best and hardest negotiating tactics before then, but by then it must be over. And by then Democrats need to start closing ranks. In my opinion there is no case that Hillary Clinton can now make that can win her the support of enough delegates to secure the Democratic nomination, but I have been wrong before. If she's going to try she has until June 10th, max, to succeed. If Hillary Clinton carries any semblance of this contest forward beyond that date I will shift to being a strong, persistent and outspoken opponent of hers, both on Democratic Underground and elsewhere.

Or Labor day?

It is one week after the final primary. One week should be time enough for adaquate discussions with 200 or so undeclared Super Delegates to be pursued to some kind of understanding.

their endorsement by, at the latest. And Murtha is a Clinton Delegate.

So it's a good, reasonable date. The D.C. Politicians realize, wisely, we have GOT to get on with it or lose valuable time.

Good post, Tom.

I don't particularly enjoy watching the Clinton campaign spin its wheels, but I don't see that doing so has any negative effect on the party's chances in November. There's hype and hysteria, but then there's always hype and hysteria. By October, we will all be hyped and hysterical about something else.

But it is what I honestly feel. I agree with you, it seems, between now and June 10th. I think all the hysteria about needing to wrap this thing up yesterday has been way overblown. I am comfortable with allowing the end game to play out as it must until then and I think the Democratic Party will have ample time left to pull itself together to win behind our nominee if it does.

And yeah, I said against her. If you've chosen a candidate then get about promoting what he's busy promoting for shitsakes. The endless posturing against the Clintons is stupid. There's no way they are going to move themselves out of the party like Lieberman did, for example, so it's just another round of Clinton bashing to suggest it in any way.

The thing you must realize is that it is the superdelegates who are extending this race, second only to the voters who have yet to vote in enough numbers to allow either candidate to win the nomination by votes cast alone. When the SDs decide, publicly, the mass of the Democratic party will begin to move on, no matter what the defeated candidate decides to do. If you think your candidate has it wrapped up, you should move on now, instead of waiting for something your candidate's rival may do, now or in the future.

It can easily be read as a blanket defense for all of her continuing strenuous ongoing efforts to either and/or win the Democratic nomination for President or bring her influence to bear on Democratic politics moving forward. In fact that is close to my actual intent in writing this now. I was even careful to point out that it is only my opinion that there is no way Hillary Clinton can still win the nomination and I have been wrong with my opinions before. I did NOT say that her victory would be illegitimate if she manages to win over a majority of all certified delegates to the Democratic Convention by appealing to the better judgment of Super Delegates by June 10th.

I did not say that she is acting crazy now, or that she is sabotaging Democratic chances for victory in November by not throwing her support behind Obama now and by continuing to fight instead. I have sympathy for Clinton's need to play her best hand now and let the cards fall where they will. I think if you reread my OP you will see that it also attempts to explain why she has every right to be contesting the nomination now, which differs from many opinions expressed here, and Hillary Clinton will have my full support if she still wins the nomination. I did not say a single negative thing about her current behavior.

there's no chance that she's going to do ANYTHING which would justify some new campaign against her. If the contest goes beyond the 10th it will be the responsibility of the SDs, not Sen. Clinton.

She shouldn't get penalized for merely participating in this contest to its end, and, she certainly doesn't control the process of votes, allocation of delegates, or the will or actions of the superdelegates.

And you'd have been in favor of Dems doing their best to work against him after that?

I said I would be outspoken in opposition to her under that scenario. I opposed what Ted Kennedy did in 1980 also for the record, but that did not make me a life long opponent of Ted Kennedy nor does it make me discount his overall important work for both our Party and our Nation. If there were bloggers back then most likely I would have blogged against Kennedy's attempt to oust Carter, but of course it was his right to do so if he wished and that did not make him any less a Democrat.

Welcome to our world, Tom. I had just hoped it would be different for someone who had been a solid Hillary supporter and only switched because of the math and party unity.

I thought your post was great.

I figured it could open myself up to attacks from both sides. I have no complaints though, feelings are running strong for good reasons but for the most part people have stayed civil toward people who try to be civil.

won't vote for the nominee in November. Then I can get a wee bit snarky. And then I feel bad.

I'm not nearly as generous.

What will you say when she refuses to accept the decision of the RBC on May 31st?

What will you say when she refuses to accept the decision of the Credentials Committee?

What will you say when the Florida and Michigan delegations are seated and Clinton CONTINUES her fight?

She'll never give up, even when Obama leads in every single metric she comes up with. She'll just come up with another goalpost.

This isn't funny, it isn't democracy... this is dangerous. Hillary literally CAN'T be left off the ticket.

It is time for her supporters to start questioning what Hillary is fighting FOR and who is supporting this fight.

So I did. I have lots of other opinions, some half baked, some three quarter baked, on many of the matters being fiercely debated on DU between some Clinton and Obama supporters about what is going on with the nomination battle now. But I am clear on my bottom line. Anyone is free to guess what Hillary or anyone else is up to now and why, and then we can fight over those opinions as much as we want, or not as we choose.

But I am clear in my mind that it is critical that Demorats win the Presidential election in 2008, and once the final primary is over, Democrats psychological need for closure after a prolonged two year battle will become increasingly intense, and a failure to provide that quickly would come at a cost with payment due in November.

But Hillary is not going to end this. I have said since February that she is taking this battle to the convention and I have heard nothing from Hillary to indicate she will do otherwise.

She doesn't care about our need for closure. If only people would actually LISTEN to Hillary. People are so convinced the Clintons are liars. But Hillary has been telling us the truth this whole time: in Florida, in Michigan, in Kentucky... She's telling us what she is going to do.

June 10 will come and go; Hillary will hold another rally in Florida bemoaning the DNC's decision to give the Florida delegation a half-vote. She'll be preparing a minority report to the convention.

I would be very sad if I had to put you on ignore.

I will never doubt that Hillary Clinton is a Democrat and I know it is fully within her rights to contest for the Democratic nomination until there is a roll call at the Democratic Convention that gives a majority of delegates there assembled to one candidate.

crazy, no?

As an American citizen, I have as much right to dictate the political landscape as any other citizen, including Bill and Hillary. Today I'm standing up for my rights!

:toast:

in his or her own political fortunes that in the future of either the party or the nation . . . unfortunately, Hillary Clinton seems to have reached that point some weeks ago, and the longer she draws this process out, the more painfully obvious her real agenda becomes . . .

:thumbsup: