I don't even want to hear her voice.

I've been doing this for a "few" years now. I have survived some damn bloody Primaries, and have worked the full ticket afterward, but I just am having a lot of trouble with this one.

I admit it, I didn't care too much for Hil going into this election. Call me narrow minded, call me old fashioned--pick a term--but I just had very real reservations about Hil based on the fact that she didn't boot Bubba to the curb after he got busted getting hummers at work. Again, I admit freely that I have no place to judge, but I just don't TRUST any woman that keeps a man like him after such a public humiliation. (It isn't LIKE Monica was a siren, now is it...)

I could have probably been ok with her in spite of that husband thing, except for the fact that I have seen her in this Primary--multiple times--get caught lying about shit. Not about anything substantive like "I never inhaled" but about getting pinned down by sniper fire and other crappy little things that mean NOTHING in this race. She was lying about stuff that just wasn't necessary--ya know?

And then she made JOKES about getting caught lying. She sat on Leno and JOKED about getting busted lying about getting pinned down by sniper fire. I have a problem with anybody that JOKES about lying to me--ya know? Kinda like the husband that is getting hummers on the side and lying about that, I have an issue with somebody that jokes about telling me stuff that they KNOW is a lie.

Now there is the whole Michigan and Florida thing, and she's completely ignoring her promise (Signed Pledge, actually) that she will abide by the DNC rules regarding Primaries. I dunno, it was drilled into my head at a young age that if I gave my word I needed to live up to it. Maybe it is a peculiarity of mine, but I feel like I am not worth shit to anybody if my word means nothing. My marriage vows, my signature on a contract, my promise to do something--I honor those things.

So now we have a woman who kept her lying husband, joked about lying to me on national TV, and abandoned her signed pledge. And she is out there saying she's won the popular vote (in spite of the fact that the math just doesn't add up, somehow.) She is out there saying she's fighting for people's rights and she won't even pay her campaign bills. She does/doesn't want to be the VP.

I dunno. I'm just tired of being lied to. I just don't WANT to even listen to her anymore, but it is like a damn train wreck. I hope this ends soon because I just don't TRUST her.



Laura

My list of the delusional is almost complete.

its like listening to poop from another time period.

Go outside and get some fresh air. Take a walk. Adopt a homeless animal. Go pick some flowers. There's a whole world out there.

If it wasn't storming here today I'd be doing laundry and hanging it out on the line to dry. Later this afternoon I'm taking my daughter to AAA to plan a trip to Memphis and then on to Alabama in a couple weeks. Gonna do Graceland and Tupelo and gonna go see an archaeological dig in action. (Maybe even help with the dig, but she doesn't know THAT yet...)

I DO walk away as much as possible, but there is just this visceral response EVERY time. My skin just starts crawling.

This too shall pass.


Laura

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmUUYo9o9eg


And here is a thread making Monica central

on and they hear her voice I lose TV privledges for the rest of the night.

I also wonder why some Obama supporters think it's a good idea that she be on the ticket.

She's done nothing but go negative on Obama and try to destroy his name and reputation since she started losing this contest: He's unqualified, he's unelectable, blah blah blah.

She and her campaign are pulling blowsy rhetoric out of thin air to manufacture excuses to keep going.

Camp Clinton keeps pushing the "anything can happen" meme in hopes that something, anything will kneecap Obama where she could not. She's made it clear that she will drag this out as long as there's any action her campaign can take to keep it going.

And people think that, all of a sudden, if you put her one step away from the presidency that she's been contorting all sorts of logic to try to attain, that that will suddenly be enough for her?

And enough for Bill?

I don't think so. Whatever their reasons, they want this way too much to be reasonable about taking the second spot. She cannot be trusted.

makes perfect sense. We need CHARACTER and integrity in our leaders. Not deceit and dis-ingenuousness. (That's what spell check drug up)

That and that piece a shit clinton standing up there getting all red and indignant and wavin his goddman finger at everybody.

There's a meltdown in her future. When she finally wakes up to the reality that probably 80% of all Americans hate her guts.

..only thing good about her is turning her OFF (the radio or whatever. I don't watch TV).

Your reasoning is sound and I agree with it and feel the same way. I used to be OK with her. Now - because of HER behavior in this election, I cannot STAND her.

she will find that out very shortly. I hear more and more people everyday saying how they hate her and some of these people voted for her in the primaries..

You seem to be like a person walking in the rain, soaked to the bone, demanding "PROVE to me it's raining!"

Here's a newsflash: YOUR obsessive denial is not anyone else's responsibility.

She flew in the face of her signed pledge and now she wants to benefit from it. Don't you have a problem with that? I do.

Insisting the delegates be seated in FULL would be an issue for me. She AGREED to the DNC rules a long time ago and NOW those rules need to change? WTF?

You get to change rules in the middle of a game without all participants agreeing? Since when? I was kinda put out when one of our girls got called out for not sliding into home last might, but the other coach seems pretty adamant about not changing the rules in mid-game so our inning was over at that point. I guess we do things a little differently than Hil does here in my part of the world.



Laura

The pledge was to not campaign - Hillary did not campaign. Taking the candidate's name off the ballot was not a requirement.

Now how did she fly in the face of the signed pledge?

"I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC..."

You conveniently left out 'participate.' Honoring the letter of the agreement would preclude now deciding you'd like to partake of the spoils of the state. Get it??

How can someone be a candidate if their name is not on the ballot?

"The candidates are allowed to visit Michigan to raise money and can send their spouses to campaign, but they can't run advertisements, hold rallies or do most of the other things that would help give them a leg up on their opponents."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101100859.html

Here are the DNC rules. There is nothing to suggest removal of the name from the ballot - only rules against campaigning and participation. And since there is not any expectation of removal of a candidate's name from the ballot in order to be in compliance, it seems clear Obama took part in nothing more than a political calculation.

b. A presidential candidate who campaigns in a state where the state party is in violation of the timing provisions of these rules, or where a primary or caucus is set by a state’s government on a date that violates the timing provisions of these rules, may not receive pledged delegates or delegate votes from that state. Candidates may, however, campaign in such a state after the primary or caucus that violates these rules. “Campaigning” for purposes of this section includes, but is not limited to, purchasing print, internet, or electronic advertising that reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state; hiring campaign workers; opening an office; making public appearances; holding news conferences; coordinating volunteer activities; sending mail, other than fundraising requests that are also sent to potential donors in other states; using paid or volunteer phoners or automated calls to contact voters; sending emails or establishing a website specific to that state; holding events to which Democratic voters are invited; attending events sponsored by state or local Democratic organizations; or paying for campaign materials to be used in such a state. The Rules and Bylaws Committee will determine whether candidate activities are covered by this section.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/chrnothp08/sanctions.html

As for "partake of the spoils of the state." There may be sanctions yes, but where is it shown that the delegates and therefore the votes are forever made invalid?

This tactic isn't what I want in a president. Parsing words,ignoring promises. She is just a POS now. She is not worthy of holding the highest office in the land if this is the way she is going to play MI and FL.

Let's just count the "players" in the Michigan Primary FUBAR ...

• the state Democratic parties in four other states
• the Michigan state Democratic Party
• the Michigan state Republican Party
• the Michigan state legislature
• the Michigan Governor, Jennifer Granholm, a DLC Democrat and Hillary supporter
• the national Democratic Party, particularly the DNC and the RBC on which a PLURALITY of the members are announced Clinton supporters!

Interestingly, the VOTERS of the state of Michigan were the LEAST involved. Yet we're the most unemployed in the nation and we have the highest rate of foreclosures.

Hillary can go fuck herself.

have to like a politician and potential future president, but after the past disastrous 7 years, I would like to trust him/her. She does not fit that bill (no pun intended) imo and never has for me.

who gobble up the lies. That scares me more than her lies. How can this be happening again, after all we've been through the last 8 years.

Her silence during the 2000 and 2004 elections bothered me. Her vote for the IWR bothered me. Her failing to lend her voice and moral support to the Dem leaders who have stuck their necks out over these last few years (see: Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, Russ Feingold, Robert Byrd, etc.) bothered me. Her fence-sitting positions during controversial nominations and Senate hearings bothered me. Now, her dishonest and disingenuous, arrogant and mocking campaign bothers me.

And I don't want to hear her voice either! :)

the one that sounds like fingernails on a blackboard?

:scared:

:shrug:



Laura

:thumbsup:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0423,carson,54137,1.html

"In The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, Oliver Sacks tells a remarkable story about watching a presidential speech in a roomful of people with severe aphasia, a condition that impairs or destroys understanding of verbal content but leaves its victims preternaturally alert to the authenticity of facial expressions, mannerisms, and tone. Every solemn, ringingly earnest sentence out of Reagan's mouth had the patients rolling on the floor laughing."

He was perfect as a politician (assuming you could get past his politics, that is...) because he could hit his mark and deliver the lines. His "business" however, was never much good. The people who were tuned into body language flinched whenever they saw him. I have no doubt.

I don't suffer severe aphasia, but I do pay attention to non-verbal communication, and his was AWFUL.


Laura

Both Bushes always caused the same reaction, as well as a few others.

It's kind of a stalemate, I guess. I heard him on the radio this AM, campaigning in Florida, and I realized (I'm totally serious) that I really don't like his staccato style of talking and the way he puts an emphasis on certain words. It drives me absolutely bonkers.

She's worn out her welcome in the Democratic Party and in the Presidential race.

She's lost and needs to get out.

'siren' by your standards, that it would have been more "ok" that Hill didn't kick her philandering hubby to the curb?

Personally.. I don't get it.. why does Monica's looks have anything to do with anything?


INVESTIGATE IMPEACH INDICT INCARCERATE :patriot:

He absolutely humiliated his wife and it wasn't like he did it with the prettiest girl in town or even an intelligent one--which I think would feel even worse. Unforgivable in any form but gawd--did he have to exercise such a leaping lack of taste when he DID it?

Monica was calling up Tripp with BLOW by blow accounts, and she kept a dress with spooge on it? Get real. That is just nasty no matter how you spin it. He broke his vows with THAT?

EW.

to your idea of "pretty" or "intelligent"..

Give. me. air. :eyes:

The most powerful man in the world and he's got such low taste that he's doing a skanky woman that keeps a semen covered dress? Hon, you have to know that would add insult to injury if you were his wife.

That is just SO nasty.


:puke:


Nasty as all THAT is, Hil was out there defending him before this all came out. You DO remember the interview where they sat together and told the world he did not have sex with that woman--right? He not only was doing a skanky girl, but he pimped his wife in the press trying to defend him.

And still she did not kick him out.

I think many women would have, and I think that unless you are looking for a reason to defend their actions you probably can admit to wondering how ANYBODY could stay married after that. I just don't TRUST it.

YMMV.

I'd totally understand.

:hi:

See no need to read further.

Lying about Michigan and Florida really takes the cake, doesn't it? If I rolled my eyes every single time that I felt like it when I hear her, my eye muscles would get tired.

So I think about this :eyes: instead.

I've always thought that part of the appeal of Clinton to women is because a significant number of women are stuck in bad relationships, or have been abused in some way, they feel trapped and stay, and because of that they relate to her. I find that really sad. I would think that would be an interesting poll question, actually, but it would never be done.

To women: Have you been verbally abused by your husband? Have you been physically abused by your husband? Did you divorce your husband because of it? Are you still with him? etc. etc. Who is your choice for the Democratic nomination?

I have a feeling that this poll would reveal a lot about the Clinton support from women.

I would have been *so* out of that relationship. But their relationship has always been based on business, probably. It's kind of interesting. I have no doubt that she made him pay for his sins in many ways, though.

Here's the thing--I used to think she was smart. She has run the most unintelligent campaign of all times. She has an obvious lack of management skills--not what we need for President.

Just as Hillary Clinton thinks we should feel she is a better candidate because she can get the knuckledragging half-wit vote (which she wouldn't in a General Election) or that we're supposed to just cackle along with her on the multi-troubling Snipergate Incident or that her cheating husband and her "make a good team", it's as though we're supposed to accept the sub-standard, the corrupted and perverted, the warmongering under a dubiously confounding "Democratic" meme, the countless lies and Clintonian half-truths and just allow the rules to be changed now that the game plan has been destroyed.

We're supposed to be stupid little children and let Mom run the station wagon into the brick wall.

Sorry... so many people are not that stupid. It's beyond going to a point except where the Clintons don't seem to care about anyone except themselves at this point.

I never quite agreed--I let guests hang out longer, usually. But you have to know that I feel like these particular "guests" are pissing in the corners of my living room. Hell, I think they just lit my drapes on fire too...


I'm having a real tough time even considering what I'd do with her anywhere near the ticket. My distrust has reached that point. I'm having a tough time remembering that Hil is on the same team with me. Much as I dislike Unca Dick and the Asswipe in the WH, she is starting to earn that same level of disgust with me.


Laura

for this disgusting thing called Democracy, huh? Here, in the Homeland, all people manage to do is whine and complain about how uncomfortable it is for them. No wonder they say it's like watching sausage being made - eeeewwwww!

Isn't freedom a wonderful thing?

Last time I checked it was ok to call out a politician on lies and personal failings. If that has changed in our current environ please do notify me.

You can't even read the word mute on my remote anymore from all the times I've muted Bush and Cheney. and Condi. And Rummy. I save my hate for Repukes. You seemed to be complaining about the sound of her voice - not the content. Feel free to enjoy your hate fest, though.

so I hit mute, change the channel or simply turn off the tube.

That said, I don't fault her for standing by her man (ha, ha). I mean seriously, how many women would walk away from the perks of being First Lady, living in the White House, being waited on... She had a form of financial and other security few women would abandon.

No, I fault her for her pandering, calculating IWR vote! And now, for her insatiable ego and ghastly lie-filled campaign.