You all know I am not a Clinton supporter. Nevertheless...

...I do want to point out that it is entirely possible that the New York Post and everyone else who's attacking her for the RFK reference are grievously misreading it.

The context was a discussion of her decision to keep going even though everyone else wants her to drop out, and she was citing the two examples she has ready to hand of people who were still campaigning at this point in the season. Obviously she remembers Bill's June primary in California because she was there. She remembers that RFK was campaigning in June because that's when he was assassinated. That's probably the reason *most* people remember that Bobby Kennedy was still campaigning in June. That seems completely reasonable to me, and I don't see why we should all jump to the conclusion that what she REALLY meant was, "Hey, I should keep going because if Obama gets shot, we'll need a spare!"

The fact that people other than the denizens of the GD: P forum have interpreted it that way says something about the context that Clinton's recent behavior has created for that remark. It did not provoke the same reaction the first couple of times she made it, because at that point she hadn't demonstrated her personal willingness to do whatever became necessary in order to win quite as clearly. I certainly believe Clinton capable of stuff I would have thought was beneath her a couple months ago. Still, when people are not sleeping for months on end and talking in front of the media all day long, they're going to say stuff before they think about how it's going to be taken, and to me this falls into that category.

Why am I defending her, given that she pisses me off more with every day that passes? Because I'm even MORE pissed off by this ongoing media soap opera we call Out Of Context Theater. Everyone who runs for any office will say at least one thing in innocence that can be turned into a drama like this. The media and the campaigns seize on these things and exploit them without caring whether they're misrepresenting the person's real intent or not. It's dishonest and sensationalistic and manipulative and it has unfortunately become a tool whereby people who might actually do some good with the offices for which they are running get trashed and pushed out of the campaign.

Huckabee joking about someone taking a shot at Obama is a legitimate cause for outrage, outcry, and general public shaming. IMHO this is really not the same thing.

Yeesh. Yeesh, I say!

The Plaid Adder

And they know it.

This was a major gaffe.

your view on this. everyone and their dog is reeling over her remarks. its that legitimate.

that gaffe might just might have been the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

Didn't she make some gaff about BO getting shot?

None of it's acceptable or all of it is. Words vs issues...hmmmm....I wonder what's important.

I like that: "Out of Context Theater"

They changed the calendar. Nothing is going to happen in June that can change anything. June is not relevant. It never has been. It's a big fat lie that she made up months ago and the media let her get away with.

She KNOWS it's a big fat lie because she's not stupid.

So why did she mention Bobby, of all people, again??

And she's not a stupid woman.

I don't understand where you are coming from.

After Eugene McCarthy nearly defeated Johnson in the New Hampshire Primary in early 1968, Kennedy announced his own campaign for president, seeking the nomination of the Democratic Party. Kennedy defeated McCarthy in the critical California primary but was shot shortly after midnight on June 5, 1968, dying on June 6.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy

It may interest you to know that McCarthy "angrily denounced Kennedy as an opportunist" for announcing his candidacy.

What HRC said was in reference to the fact that he (Kennedy) didn't drop out even after losing the primary in Oregon but went on to the California primary in June to win it. She compared her run to his for that reason. She decided to fight it out to the end of the primaries thereby giving people a chance to vote. She also referenced Bill Clinton's long fought primary against Paul Tsongas and then California governor Gerry Brown, which went on until the California primary in June. She expressed puzzlement over why, after these historically long primaries, she should bow out before the primaries are over in June.

That everybody jumped on this like flies to honey speaks to the paranoia factor amongst Obama supporters. Understandable for sure but in this case, uncalled for.

What you DO do by creating such a frenzy over what she said is to create an atmosphere wherein every bloody loony in the country will think that they might get as much media attention by actually committing such a crime, something these loons crave. I hope, pray I'm wrong here as I DID vote for him in the primaries and will vote for him in the election.

ITMT, methinks it's time we all calm down, take a deep breathe and maintain some sort of decorum on these forums which have pretty much berserk over her remarks and their unintended consequences.

I said in another thread that I had called my county elections people several times when they decided to go all write-in what their contingency plan was in case something happened to the candidate immediately before the election, citing the Wellstone incident, and people had already voted.

I did this at least three times (BTW, they have no contingency plan).

This does not mean that I hope any other candidate goes down in a small plane crash, which I most assuredly do NOT.

with out someone being assassinated.

She said it and she meant it the way it was said. Fuck her.

After 8 years of absolute nonsense, lies and division from "the uniter', I think we are all grwoing careless in our appraisal of just about everything any of the candidates say, what church they visit, what they eat, who they are married to, what they have or don't have, what their kids are like and on and on and on.

Let's focus on one thing. Win the election, apply pressure to Washington for what we want and what we don't want.

Its our country. It will always be our country. And no stupid, thoughtless, careless or even reckless comment by ANY of the candidates will change that.

It's hard to misread that. And what *reading* is there. Watch the damn video of her saying it.

And I looked at her body language, including the pause right after she made the statement, as if she'd realized in that moment she had let something slip out that she didn't quite mean to.

If you haven't watched the video, take a moment and do so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vyFqmp4wzI&eurl=http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

"We all remember, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in JUNE, in California. Uhhhh.... I... y-.... I just don't understand it."

Her justification for staying in through June by pointing to prior years is a lie and she knows it's a lie, but is counting on most people being dumb sheep and not catching it. Yes, RFK was still campaigning in June - that's when the California primary was. In this case, the California primary was four months ago. The schedule was not nearly as early as it was this year.

Memorial Day Weekend and all that, one drop of blood in the water will suffice. The American populace goes along because, well, we all worship Our Saint of Perpetual Outrage.

understand the dislike some may feel for Clinton, I originally felt that way myself, but we do everyone a disservice we we jump to this kind of a conclusion about any of our Democratic candidates. And as concerned as some folks may be about the length of this campaign and the damage they feel it may do to their chosen candidate, it is also true that any remarks leveled against Clinton will also be used against us as a whole. Nothing is said in a vacuum.And these vicious attacks on Clinton can ands WILL be used against us by the GOP and will harm all Dems.This is a sword that cuts two ways.

"I know Hillary Clinton, and the last thing in the world she'd ever want is to wish misfortune on anybody. She and Barack are friends," Durbin said. "It was ... a careless remark and we'll leave it at that."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080523/ap_on_el_pr/clinton

It was a tactless, boneheaded thing for her to say, but people who now are calling her c**t, bitch, lard-assed, fatassed Vince Foster killer - - and that was just in one thread today - - well, the whole thing is just a disgrace.

You must be fucking joking.

Someone had a link to a NY Post article a minute ago, but I clicked on it and said "file not found". Is this a NY Post article specifically about today's "gaffe"?

I posted this twice already, but since no one responded, I'll say it again. Were there any threads earlier today (I just got in) about today's NY Post article (about "dream ticket") in which the Vice Chair of the DLC (don't remember his name) said that if Obama is the nominee, Clinton should be the VP. Then he followed it with " if anything ever were to happen to him, she would make a great president." The Post didn't include any implications of that quote, but it made me go "Uh, what? Is he saying what I think he's saying? Nah, couldn't be..right?"

....they cannot process any political discourse without fabricated twists to the utterances of their hated opponents.

The media has run out of real news so they and the forum board dwellers twist and shout the bullshit we have come to know and smell.

Her campaign has repeatedly referred to something "catastrophic" happening to Obama, and then she references RFK's assassination. She set the context, and people are just following it to it's logical conclusion.

...which heard the assassination remark and was typically unresponsive because it had no other impact than that of a June time-line.

and how Johnson did all the work that John/Jack had only dreamed of. Keep in mind that the Clinton's may have already been considering the VP spot. The truth is that Johnson did some really good things as far as the poor and civil rights are concerned, but he did a lot of harm also. I did a study on him and the Vietnam war, and there is some funny/weird things Johnson did in the days following Kennedy's assassination. It is no wonder that some people suspected him of somehow being a part of the Dallas events. Just as some people might have a concern that Hillary is thinking just what she said.

edited for content

Don't conflate her egregious behavior with the media's egregious behavior.

it only takes one whack-job zealous person to twist her comments and act on the power of suggestion.

(emphasis added)

Hillary is despicable.

over the past 5 months, then I can only assume that she meant for it to be a dog whistle. I'm sorry, I cannot give her the benefit of the doubt. This was at least the 3rd time she has made reference to RFK when there were so many other examples she could have turned to.

".... when people are not sleeping for months on end and talking in front of the media all day long, they're going to say stuff before they think about how it's going to be taken, and to me this falls into that category." -snip-

That excuse won't cut it just as the 'Sniper-gate' fiasco was proven to have been a reoccurring theme on here campaign trail.
Here's proof http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6096452

Peace.

And, last I heard, the presidency is a stressful job wherein you might not get a lot od zzzzz's (3am phone calls notwithstanding.)

If being tired makes her repeatedly exercise WRETCHED judgement, that is reason enough not to want her to be Commander in chief.

it rings at three in the morning. I see an add in the making. Somebody got the money. :toast:

If she only meant that primaries have been known to go on longer, Bill's example should have been enough. She didn't need to bring up Bobby Kennedy, with all the overstuffed baggage of that particular June.

Yet she did.

Why are you surprised that people heard her comment, and made the obvious connection?

While it was an outrageous, unfortunate statement, giving Senator Clinton the benefit of the doubt seems to me to be the right thing to do. I cannot help but note, however, that the benefit of the doubt is a courtesy that Senator Clinton NEVER extended to Barack Obama.

herself --- and WOMEN????

What I'm in favor of is giving her the opportunity to bow out with whatever shreds of dignity are left for her... but to do so as quickly as possible. This weekend wouldn't be too soon.

"I'm over tired and have decided for my own health and for the sake of the Democatic party, I will today announce my withdrawal from the campaign to be the presidental nominee. It is obvious that Senator Obama has the majority of delegates and votes. I appreciate everyone who has supported me, but now is the time to call it quits. I am going home to rest and then to get on with my job as Senator in the wonderful state of NY."

Hillary, feel free to take this as your statement if you are too tired to write it yourself.

There's a thing about our culture now where it's considered laudable for a man or particularly for a woman, to push herself beyond reasonable limits.

She was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when he claimed not to be a secret Muslim! Despite the overwhelming evidence of his Muslimocity, she magnanimously took him at his word. Of course, she qualified that benefit of the doubt by adding "as far as I know", but still!

Your Hillary hatred blinds you. Blinds you, I say!

(I shouldn't need to add it, but here: :sarcasm: )

this was the THIRD time she referenced Robert Kennedy's assassination in response to a question as to why she is staying in.

The first time was in MARCH:

TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?

CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/05/hillarys_bizarre_rfk_comment.html

Then again in APRIL:

"But I also think it's still early, I mean everybody is so focused on where we are right now, I, I, guess I remember in June of '92 that's when Bill really wrapped up the nomination, the middle of June after the California primary. Um, You know, I remember very well what happened in the California primary in 1968 as Sen. Kennedy won that primary."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24505208#24505208

The quote above can be found around the 4:30 mark, I believe.

Given the THREE times she has referenced this, I think it is deliberate and appalling.

and still am, although seeing as this is the third time she has referenced it, at best, means her campaign is full of completely incompetent idiots who didn't have the foresight to see this could possibly be damaging and at worst, means there IS some sort of underlying meaning (nudge nudge wink wink). Bleh.

This is just too much. It needs to end.

the context.

We already know hilary is dispicable..and if she "apologized" when is she going to Shut The Fuck UP about it?

Up until this last comment, I was giving her the benefit of the doubt, thinking she couldn't be meaning what it sounded like. No doubt at all now, imo.

It is sorely needed.

The series of controversial *within their context* remarks that she has made are such that she does not commend herself to speak for the United States in various contexts, most notably at the level of a head of state.

This remark is outrageous *in its context* because she refuses to at least suspend her campaign when it is obvious that the only way she can win is to deny certain states' delegates and use "new math" to count FL and MI. The remark is outrageous in its context because she has started a campaign to lie to the public about primaries and popular votes. The remark is outrageous in its context because she has been given EVERY opportunity to suspend her campaign gracefully. Instead she has a mob who wants to change the rules by yelling loudly enough.

These recent actions look desperate. They look like the actions of someone who wants power at any price, even at the price of a democratic win. She has acted in ways that threaten the party itself by not doing what every other candidate has ALWAYS done, which is to accept her loss and bring her supporters into the party to vote for the candidate.

I think the Democratic Party has been far, far more than patient and fair with her. If she were anyone else, she would've already been told to stop.

The big problem with her statement is that so many think she has no scruples at all that she would be willing to the unthinkable in order to win. In that way, she is sort of the "Cheney" of the democratic party at this point.

Now she can quit that "count the votes" whining. I've had it with her....she wants to "count" votes that SHE AGREED wouldn't count, then she has the nerve to compare the situation to Gore in 2000??? That pissed me off.

What she said IMO was stupid, not evil. I don't think she MEANT "yay maybe he'll die" but it sure sounded BAD and her apology was LAME IN THE EXTREME.

I feel very Marvin K. Mooney about her right now....I don't care HOW she gets out, just please go NOW.

It's ridiculous to think she was hinting that somebody harm Sen. Obama. I don't care for the people calling her "c**t, lardassed butch, Vince Foster killer"....but I think this should effectively finish her campaign. I am happy that the Michigan/Florida thing is not going to be pressed to the point where our Party is hurt.

Just a bad use of humor from normally good natured if overly hickish dude joking about guns and politics in front of gun people.

His apology was much more sincere too.

but he also went too far. The problem with Hillary is that she is in his party and his opponent at the moment.

He actually profusely apologized for it, wherever I saw him on TV or heard him on the radio. This though? I'm just shaking my head, out of words. :(

in Iraq" statement -- he had used the line to criticize Bush many times making clear that Bush was a lousy student and made the bad decisions that got US (the nation) stuck in Iraq. At an event when he was exhausted he shortened the statement that had been understood in the past as jab at Bush and it sounded as if he was saying that dumb high school and college students wind up with no options for their lives other than going to Iraq.

Maybe Clinton's statement today is poorly worded, but really about the election calendar, but maybe not.

Take a look at the 3 versions of the statement that K Gardner has posted here -


The first statement makes clear that her thoughts are about the election calendar:

March 6 - CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.


Today's version could reasonably be about election calendar, just poorly stated:

May 23 - "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it," she said, dismissing calls to drop out.


This version isn't about the calendar -- it is about assassination...

April 25 - You know, I remember very well what happened in the California primary in 1968 as Sen. Kennedy won that primary.


Plaid - I don't think it is out of the question to imagine that Clinton does have in mind the possibility of a violent event changing the outcome of this election - I would never, for one instant, think she wants anything bad to happen, but I think it is reasonable to think that it is in the back of her mind and may even be a topic among people in her campaign. :(

i feel pretty much the same way. i am dreading going to my local hangout tonight because i am sure a few overly enthusiastic obama supporters will twist this incident beyond belief...i can just here it now. "hillary want's to kill obama." "the clintons are racists who want to kill obama." :puke:

to give it up without trashing the place first.

They gleefully embrace the drama, and revel in the insane glory of it. They scream it back and forth, like some madhouse echo, apparently believing that if they screech it long and loud enough, it will make it true.

God Bless You! thank you for the sanity and truth.

TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?

CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.

snipnomination in June. He was not the frontrunner and if he had not been assassinated he would have had an uphill battle going into the convention that year. The RFK-Clinton parallels are much stronger than any RFK-Obama parallels. Obama is in some ways equivalent to Humphrey in being the front-runner, and in some ways equivalent to Eugene McCarthy, in being the youth-movement egg-head anti-war candidate.
And Bill "wrapped up" his campaign in April 1992 rather like Obama "wrapped it up" in February. In other words, Bill was the solid front-runner in April but he didn't clinch the nomination( get the real magic number) until June. And his final competition didn't drop out even then, but continued on to the convention.



snip
This is just the latest ploy to discredit her once more.
Problem is they don't even see that they are hardening people against them.

This is obviously about June, why unless you are voting on race, would this automatically be about Obama being assassinated? Or if you accept that Hillary Clinton is racist or will do anything to win.

She is currently beating him in most polls about the GE, they need to slow her down and make him look a hero.

This IS a SAD DAY...

:)

maybe if it had been the first time she'd get the benefit of the doubt. its not and she won't.

The MSM is always on the hunt for controversies real, imagined or contrived. They like to blow things out of proportion for whatever reason.

agree with everything you said, in fact

claiming this is Hillary's wish and advocation of Obama's assassination.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

DemEx

Politicians say really stupid things, they actually do "misspeak", send garbled messages unintentionally, much to their disadvantage. I believe that is just what Hillary has done in this instance.

What bothers me about Hillary is what she has done intentionally for politically reasons.

The obviously political IWR vote.

Her vocal defense of Bush's war.

Her support of cluster bombs.

Her blatant effort to use thinly veiled, "polite" racism as a political tool.

Her utterly groundless cries of "sexism" against all the candidates that ran against her.

Her embrace of Bushlike swaggering "toughness" in foreign policy.

The list could go on for pages.

Hopefully, this attempt to grasp, yet another, last straw, has sunk her hopes to be Vice-president and will go on to sink her political career.

The worst I thought she could possibly implying (don your tinfoil hat now) was that it was a possibility someone could attempt such and she'd have to be prepared to step up to the plate. I even thought that was totally over the top. Then next thing I know people are freaking out how she's using secret code to bring in the goons. It's surreal.

It's WORSE than Hucakbee. She's hoping he dies so she can win for Christ sake. It's in her mind. Like I said to the husband we all have the bad thoughts-hmmmm if your plane crashes then I can do the guy at the pool-but we don't say them! I.E. we don't REALLY mean them. I guess she PROBABLY doesn't either. But then you start to wonder-if it's so open she's saying it to reporters-death of Obama is on her list as her "chance." I hope she gets a grip and redeems herself-also if you say I wanted my hubby's plane to crash hee hee-and I can do the pool guy-(TO YOUR best friend's husband)-well it says you are either an idiot for opening your mouth to the wrong person or you want his plane to crash-time for divorce-time for Hillary to GO!

YES I am well aware she posts lengthy diatribes that get many recomendations. Sometimes I agree, sometimes not. I find her post (again sorry!) very wordy and missing the point.

I've been here since 2004 myself but I am nothing compared to the likes of you and yours, thanks for the reminder.

:hi:

This seems to be the third time she has made this comment . . .

What it clearly says is that she is waiting around for some misfortune to happen to Obama ---!!!

Let me assure you that if lightning struck Edwards, Kucinich and Obama --- I'd never vote for HRC!!!

She is disgusting ---

She was trying to justify staying in the race. She could have invoked many elections. Why invoke "assassination"? Why not mention other campaigns, Reagan and Ford, Dukakis, or others that went past June. Clinton's words today were unnecessary and unfortunate.

Why defend someone who wishes ill on her opponent in her party and promote the experience of McCain? I still don't hate Clinton. However, I would not vote for her in the fall.

Tex Shelters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tD4l1NYmXg

That should remove any doubt. Note the smirk/smile in the corners of her mouth as she talks about it. ick.

edit: to fix link

Don't cheapen yourself by trying to defend this shit.

But this one is not it. She was concentrating on June and candidates who hadn't dropped out for whatever reason. She wasn't wishing assassination on Obama. Right now, I'm listening (but not watching or absorbing) Keith Olbermann's special comment, which is totally out of line. Is he, who the left thought was their only spokesperson, now pandering to the right. This whole issue is totally insane. It's a non-issue. It was a misspoken phrase. Let's see the "Media" go after McCain for the stupidity he spouts with the same viciousness that they have about this one comment Hillary made. I am not a Hillary fan. When she sat down with Scaife, went on Fox, and all those other stupid things, I think she gave away any right to be the presumptive Democratic nominee like McCain is the presumptive Republican nominee. She and Bill owe a hell of a lot to the Democratic party and all of us "little" Democrats who lost friends, supported them, and made excuses for them in the 1990's. But they really didn't give a damn about us little d's. I think most of us know that.

Hugs & Kisses

I can't begin to tell you how upsetting Hillary's ghoulish comment was to me... and she did not even apologize to Obama and his family, and I do not for a nanosecond buy her explanation.

The blowback from African American communities will be immense.

The MSM finally found something on which to hang her. It was a poor choice for an example but definitely not worth the feeding frenzy reaction. And I include the reactions here at DU.

hilary, as usual, does it all on her own.

The mediawhores will probably cover this up and get back to Pastorbaiting on Rev Wright.

But still, I don't really know what to think about it.

I think that it's a real stretch to imply that she was trying to facilitate it happening or even that she wants it to happen. We can suppose that she would be as dismayed as any of us if Obama was assassinated, and still she might want to stick around to take advantage of it in case it happened. Would that be so terrible? We don't have contempt for funeral directors or coroners because they make money off of dead people, right? In fact we make out wills in order to prepare for the unthinkable, and yet nobody would think that that means we want to die, and nobody would blame anyone for doing that, right?

To verbalize this as a reason to stay in the race. Honestly, I wouldn't blame her if those were her private reasons to stay in the race, but verbalizing this before the media is completely reprehensible. You just DON'T GO THERE. Period.

And have her as VEEP? No way.

Paraphrasing:

I don't believe that she would want anything bad to happen to him (Obama)

She has every right to stay in this race.

In June I'm hoping that we will come together as a Party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfSCLZbRQKA&feature=user

If that's the Obama campaign's reaction, I feel that we should follow that lead.

Yes, I recognize that it sounds spooky. Perhaps I'd feel outraged about it if so many other people weren't expressing their outrage.

n/t

We know what she said.

I think the some attacks on Hillary are not just support for Obama, they are sexism (including sexism from women).

Objectively, the most important thing is to win the election. It would be ok with me if Richardson, Edwards, Denise, Obama, or Hillary wins.

Some on DU have lost sight of the Democratic and progressive values, so they let emotions dictate their actions, and going after any candidate for leading a great effort is not useful.

Support who you want, but all this anger is unnecessary. We don't even have fair elections!!!!!!!!!!!

The Plaid Adder is correct to point out accurately what happened.

I haven't posted to DU in, well, since I changed my handle on other forums, over a year ago, (Anyone know how to change your name here?) but I had to reply to this. The media does this all the time, this -- as you so aptly call it -- Out of Context Theater. Normally we call bullshit on them. Normally. Why should we play along with them this time? Because it suits the ends of the segment that supports Barack Obama? (Like me?)

Maybe Hillary meant exactly to convey the impression we're getting. Maybe it's a poor choice of words -- repeated several times.

I don't care.

By playing along with the media gotcha game, we're only encouraging them, I don't care how satisfying (or infuriating) it may be.


Deacon Blues (Diogenes17)

C'mon, my man. I've read and savored practically every word you've written on here for the past three years. But with this latest post? *Wiff*! That's the sound of a plastic bat missing the wiffle ball.

"Out of context"?! Uhhhh, no. Candidate X is asked about her thoughts about staying in the race, despite cries from others to get out. Candidate X says she's had a lot of experience, her husband didn't clinch his nomination until June, and observes that Robert Kennedy was assassinated late in the game.

What is there to misread? What is there to take out of context?

It was an outrageous comment to make.

C'mon, Adder. Wake up. Smell the coffee. And practice your swing.

And, still no star? Really? Not buying it.

I'm not even understanding the "star" reference. But it appears as though you're doubting I've been reading DU and The Plaid Adder for three years. I didn't even bother to register until ... what?... a year ago, maybe? Shortly after 9/11/2001, a friend at my job (fellow Democrat) told me about DU, and I've been reading it at the start of my workday ever since. So, actually, three years *is* incorrect. Make that "almost seven years."

Thanks for the inquiry. :-)

It really comes up a bit ya know? ;-)

However, I do agree with you that there is nothing contextual about this one. There is video widely available of all of the time before she is asked that question, her entire response, and the exchanges afterwards. There isn't a proper context to mention assassination. If her point was I'm staying until June like those before me she could have referenced other campaigns who also did without bringing up assasination. why are you in? because sometimes candidates get assassinated. That's how it sounds. Considering that it was a talking point on several occassions says that she has lost the ability to realize how people speak in proper company. That's the kind of dark humor in a campaign. Not a rehearsed whisper to the Super Delegates to vote for her because he has that assassination risk.

If you have ever watched a nature program about wolf behavior, you know what this is all about. It's not about RFK or gaffes or misunderstood comments or intended malicious comments. On some levels, it's not even about Hillary Clinton.

It's simply the hounding out of the pack. It's both fascinating and disturbing to watch it happen, whether it involves wolves or presidential candidates.

She really blew the "apology." She should have come out and told us what she meant. I think she meant that "anything can happen" as she has said many, many times, and gave this as an example of what could happen.

I admit, it is possible that you are right and I am wrong. In that case, she is just an idiot. As it is, I think she is "off."

it's not Clinton's behavior that brought about the reaction we've seen here. Rather, it's the endless smear campaign Hillary's endured - from the right-wing, and now from Obama and his campaign. She's been trashed, called a liar and smeared in every conceivable way - and there is the true source of the awful, yet expected reaction.

Taboo #1 in politics: Raising the specter of your opponent's assassination.

The only person destroying Hillary's Clinton's reputation is Hillary Clinton.

The Obama camp has outsmarted Hillary Clinton every darned step of the way in this campaign. And their wise strategy, over the last several weeks, has been to say little or nothing that's disparaging, praise her at every opportunity, and just let her self-destruct.

Seems to me that strategy is working.

Special Note: Six weeks ago I was a Hillary Clinton fan, and was agonizing over whom to vote for in the PA primary. After a lot of thought, I voted for Obama. Seems to me that's one decision I won't be regretting.

Your point about Huckabee is VERY true.

Thanks for posting. The faux outrage against HRC is beyond the pale, but then again, any fuel that feeds the HRC hate on this board is always devoured by the Hillary haters. They jump on it with every fiber of their being.

I think KO's comments are so over the top that the backlash is going to really piss off the Hillary haters at DU.

Thanks again for posting.

staying in." "ANYTHING" means "ANYTHING", including the death of one's opponent. This is common sense. Why else would she mention this? She could talk about any number of primaries that went late into the primary season. 1972 was another one. No. Uh uh. She invoked this to make that point that "ANYTHING" can happen in a primary, including the opponent's death, which is why she should stay in. And how do we further know this is what she meant? Because she LIED and said that she has been thinking about the Kennedys a lot lately due to Ted's brain cancer situation so that made her think to say this. Uh uh ! This is 2nd or 3rd time she made such a comment. And why not a flap before? Because the corporate media simply didn't jump on it before. Yet I'll go further. Even if her motive was NOT to make the "anything can happen" point, it was still a STUPID and FOOLISH and INSENSITIVE thing to say ! She gaffed bigtime here and needs to make a much deeper and more extensive apology to the American people and especially the Dem voters.

:thumbsup:

to your perspective.

The Clintons have been bigots playing WEDGE politics since 1989.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oRwZQLdhEw

NOT THIS TIME. All the lecturing, rationalization and feigned self-righteous indignant threads will not DISMISS the fact that neither Bill nor Hillary Clinton have *any semblance* of a moral compass.

I'm a democrat, but I'm sure as shit not a BLIND ONE. The Clintons do not belong in our beloved Party. :thumbsdown:

It's pretty clear what she was trying to say, but it was awkwardly worded. Kind of like the "bitter" comment. The difference is that Obama's not going to use this as a pathetic attempt to score points like Clinton did with her sleazy "bitter" ad in Pennsylvania. If only folks here would follow suit.

I saw the video, and what she said was unconscionable. She is obviously not hoping that Obama is assassinated, but bringing up the Kennedy assassination as a reason to stay in the race was tactless, at best. I don't think it is "Out of Context Theater." The video Josh Marshall posted showed the question and her full response to it. There is no defending that remark.

--include information about when those primary seasons have STARTED?

And as the Obama campaign pointed out, there are several other situations she could reasonably have cited as examples -more recent examples - of nomination contests extending into the summer.

But no...she needs to keep bringing up Bobby Kennedy.

And we all know what happened to HIM. (wink, wink)

In the meantime, her minions have reminded the media, every time her chances are taken into question, that "Anything can happen."

Collectively, it's a damned disturbing pattern.

What also rang false was her lame excuse that the Kennedys had been on her mind because of Ted's diagnosis.

What was her reason for the previous mentions? I call bullshit on her excuse. That was some ass-covering happening on the fly. It was very noticeable that she couldn't even look directly at the cameras while her eyes were searching the floor for a plausible answer.

And lost in this was that, the assassination comment aside, there she sat at that meeting continuing to play victim - "Everyone's been trying to push me out" and continuing to flat-out lie about the Obama campaign being part of that pile-on.

She should really take a look at the writing on the wall. All of it, from the sheer numbers to the undeniable flow of endorsements in Obama's direction to the financial state of her campaign down to even the unfortunate metaphors she's tried to employ. I would've taken the hint a while back.

doubt.

And, really, the cries of "phony outrage" from the gang that acted as if the world had ended because Rev. Wright said "God Damn America" or Obama used the word "bitter"... 'cmon. It is to laugh.

So here, I'm watching the same folks who've tried to play endless "gotcha" games with some shit Obama's wife or preacher or dry cleaner might have said once, get all arm-flappy and apopleptic because Hillary stuck not just her foot but her whole damn leg in her mouth, this time.

Maybe this will cause them to stop and think about the way they've played this. Maybe.

But really, for many of the remaining Hillary fans here, a long-running argument has been "This is politics. Politics is mean. Politics is a vicious, mean, low-down rugby match- it's about elbowing the other guy in the face when he drops the ball, not offering him a hand up."

Well, okay then.

Because the primary has been artificially prolonged and is still nasty, her ill-chosen words can be taken another horrible way. Her sort-of apology would have been completely sufficient, in my opinion, if she'd just admitted that she'd phrased her remark poorly.

Here's hoping the matter dies by Monday, but it may be used to push her out of the race even more quickly.

She has reduced this race to the most spurious and disgusting level. May she rot in hell.

... but there is another conclusion one could draw besides it saying "something about the context that Clinton's recent behavior has created for that remark."

It could be that it just says something about the treatment Hillary is getting from the media and a whole lot of Democrats.

When people lie about you, it's their fault, not yours.
___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

so you're entirely correct.

I just want it to be over.....

It strongly echos the southern KKK method of calling for an assasination publicly by simply claiming that it "would be a shame if someone killed him"


It also doesn't really match up because she could suspend at this point and easily pick back up if something where to happen that caused Obama to quit.

she has brought this up more than once. its not a gaffe. It's a strategy playing to people's fears. She referenced the '68 June primary, but in reality, there were only 13 primaries completed by the time JFK was shot in June. There is NO REASONABLE COMPARISON with the current race schedule, UNLESS she was suggesting that there is still the possibility, however remote, that Obama could be assassinated. ITS CLEAR what she meant, and I won't excuse it if she is so ignorant as to not know how it would be perceived. She's not a stupid women, so I discount that possibility. Her comment was DISGRACEFUL,UNFORGIVABLE, especially in the context of the real death threats, and fears for Obama's safety, and the Kennedy family's current tragedy with Teddy's terminal illness.

Anyone who knows the history of the liberal/progressive movement knows that the RFK assassination was the beginning the end of this country as we know it. It was the beginning of the corporate takeover, the backsliding of our rights, the trickle up of capital-give to the rich, take from the poor, extension of american imperialism and international economic tyranny, the conservative shift of the supreme court, the Nixon, Reagan, Bush disasters.

The hope Obama embodies is similar to the feeling of RFK's campaign. If you lived through the assassination, and suffered through Nixon,Reagan,Bush as i did, YOU FEEL THE WEIGHT OF HISTORY bearing down and the hope embodied in Obama's movement to take back the country, and the palpable fears that it could be taken away from us again. In this context, KO was right to state that a person who could suggest assassination as a reason for staying in a race, has no business being president.

I predict an avalanche of delegate defections.

if we decide to look at this comment OUT OF THE CONTEXT of Clinton's entire campaign to "do anything at any cost"... I'm looking at the big picture, too, and see these latest comments as an example of that.

We need more from people who look at things without prejudice. I heard the stupid statement. Actually, the point she was making was valid, but she should have know what they would do with it the same way Michelle is going to have to learn that her "proud of America" remark was going to become a part of the circus. But when I heard it, I knew it would draw a thousand recs here. We are doing the MSM circus owner's job for them when we play these games against each other. It was enjoyable to read a thoughtful post that said "Wait a minute."