Very apprehensive here

As Saturday approaches, I am becoming increasingly apprehensive as to what the 'committee' is going to do about Florida and Michigan. Facts are the facts, regardless of who and why. Many didn't vote at all, didn't leave their homes, having been made to understand their vote wouldn't count. Many chose to express their anti-Hillary vote by going 'undecided'. No one, not anyone thought for a moment that we'd be sitting here with this mess in our laps. Michigan, as we all know didn't even have Barack's name on the ballot. All candidates signed a pledge in understanding votes wouldn't count!! I wondered at the time why Hillary was keeping her name on the ballot, while everyone else withdrew theirs. Something 'smelled' at the time; now I've discovered the 'rotten fish'..

Same in Florida. No one expected their vote to count. No one campaigned, same pledge signed between the candidates... and now this 'mess' is beyond words.

Blame isn't the game. We can all blame everyone from A to Z, but it doesn't alter what's facing us right now. This group of Dems who are going to decide what's what, Clinton loyalists making up a good portion of them, SD sitting back 'waiting' for something <not sure what> and Hillary babbling something about "I can win this yet"...with Florida and Michigan. Speculation flying as to what the Dems are going to do to settle this.. and us 'folk' sitting back convinced this will all be fair!

I'm not convinced. Seen too much crap from the House and Senate floor to depend on 'fair'..

Facts are, the rules are the rules.. They shouldn't be seated, not one single delegate. All involved understood from the beginning. Decisions were made, now they want to change the rules. If they MUST seat the delegates, seat them after the decisions have been made. Don't allow these 2 states, who disinfrachised themselves, to determine the outcome.. and then force us all to listen to H gloating about her 'wins'..

Stressed here, waiting and wondering... Super Delegates, get up off your fences..!!

...some system in which a disincentive for states to break the rules in the future is preserved that leaves Clinton in her current near-impossible bid for the nomination.

They have already decided on the solution, which is going to bring those states to the convention, but in a way that represents a compromise. Both campaigns are aware of what will happen. Rahm Emanuel was tasked with telling the Clinton campaign that if they choose to contest this, that even their supporters in Congress will not back them. The primary contest ends on June 3, and Clinton will be out on the 6th.

They will not make this difficult or complicated.

The undecided/uncommitted will have to wait to pledge at the Convention. So, it's on to the Convention folks..........August 25th! Lots can happen at a Convention...nobody knows.

I just know that we will not have a candidate until August 25th.

I hope DU survives. :scared:

Only die hard Clinton supporters want this to continue past June 10th. Dean has asked for all the SD to declare who they will vote for by then. We will have a presumptive nominee by June 10th, even if not all do as he asked enough will to put Obama over the top.


Besides, both MI and FL have suggested compromise solutions for their delegations to be seated. The idea that they will get more than the compromises they are asking for doesn't make much sense to me.



There will be a price to pay for moving their primaries, for MI it will be the 59-69 split and for FL it will be the 1/2 delegate solution. (IMO)

surrogates, supporters and ARGUMENTS are drawing little but scorn and derision from the MSM and journalists.

Its laughable.

I wonder how many of them watched RECOUNT.. and are seeing the similarities in the thuggish tactics. They're not likely to succumb again.

have not stood up for much lately. Look how well they've fought Bush.

I don't hold out hope they'll stand up to Hi-liar-y Rotten Clinton and her band of thugs.

Depressing, ain't it. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The fucking SDs should have shut the Clintons down ages ago. Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, Jim Clyburn, Nancy Pelosi...

Spineless waiting to see what happens is gonna cost us.

"Blame isn't the game. We can all blame everyone from A to Z, but it doesn't alter what's facing us right now." is in direct

contradiction to you 1st paragraph-"Hillary was keeping her name on the ballot, while everyone else withdrew theirs. Something 'smelled'

at the time; now I've discovered the 'rotten fish'.."


You are supporting the shutout of all representation from FL and MI, even Obama and his team are willing to seat at least half.

Why do you think they are supporting "breaking the rules"?

Independent of ANYTHING else, they participated in creating the January FUBAR and should lose their votes ... if only for fucking over ordinary citizens.

As a Michigan voter, I'm personally opposed to flip-flopping and trying to save face for the FUBAR ... without doing a goddamned thing to make up for the loss to the Michigan taxpayers of running an election and depriving the most starved economy in the nation of the campaign spending.

Seat none! Fuck 'em! Let's see what they want to do to "make nice" TO THE VOTERS (fuck the party insiders) in order to EARN support in November.

Has he made any comments on this?

I just want HRC out -- she's a disruptive and untrustworthy force as we head towards the election --

This allows us to say we gave each state what the asked for, to help in the GE.

It also punishes each state, but still seats a delegation

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/rbc-meeting-is-open-to-public.html #4 in this list


Unfortunately the SDs won't be punished, but that's politics for ya




Don't stress out, Obama's lead is insurmountable. Even if #4 is the solution here Hillary will net 10 from MI and 18 from FL for a total of 28. That will cut his lead to 133 in pledged delegates. Not a game changer by any means.

encouraging her to pull out earlier and the party being "loyal" to the Clintons, thinking this would just go away.

It is clear the people have spoken....and every day that goes by it seems it is getting muddier and muddier. Independents won't stick long if the party doesn't come together. That's why they are Independent today....

Just my two cents as one...

many did not bother voting or crossed over to vote in the repug primary.

The idea that the votes as cast is a clear reflection of the will of the people is flawed.

then he might have won the state. I'm afrad that if the real popular vote were taken and the cross-over Operation Chaos votes were thrown out, the picture would be more clear.

Just compare the excitement, enthusiasm, crowd pulling, etc. with both candidates and the choice is clear on who they want. Also, who has run a better campaign.

But our point is well taken.

Neither state's delegations should be seated for voting for the candidates. Both states' delegates should be seated, as normal, for platform votes and the like.

They defied the rules and caused untold havoc and we must make sure this kind of childish anarchy never happens again.

There's no way that any solution can be reached that won't give some group the legitimate grounds to cry "foul", so the damage is done. The simplest solution is to follow the rules. I know this is a shocking approach, but rules are rules and we're all beholden to the same ones.

These were brazen acts of group selfishness, and the only thing to be salvaged from this mess is the constructive aversion therapy that will come from stripping them from their voting rights. Democrats did this, and punishment should be meted out to them from the organization, otherwise rules mean nothing.

The primary season is thus a mess and regardless of the outcome, people will never consider it legitimate. So be it.

Who got hurt by this? Everybody.

What kind of numbers could Edwards have gotten in Michigan? How about Florida? We'll never know, but it could have been just the boost to keep him in the race.

Regardless of that, this kind of insurrection should be smothered with uncompromising resolve.