Clinton has earned the VP spot

I realize this will probably anger my fellow Obama supporters but I think it needs to be done. HRC fans are right when they say that this was an incredibly close race that came down to the wire. Granted I think they are wrong in stating she has any credible chance to win at this point but I don't think the depth and breadth of her support should be ignored.
Now the pros and cons of HRC on the ticket:

Con: 1. This undermines the "change argument. I think the fact of having a woman and a black man would mitigate her establishment status.
2. I am aware of at least one poll that shows that her on the ticket loses him more Independents and Republicans than it gains him in Democrats.(I saw this poll on Kos and though I have read political blogs for a long time I have only recently begun to make comments so I don't know how to provide the link. If someone could PM me on how to do this I would be most grateful.)

Pro: 1. 17 millions votes! I don't believe the nonsense of her contorted logic that she leads in popular votes, but she has a hell of a lot of votes any way you slice it.
2. She is a bulldog! (I mean this as a complement Hill fans.) Her tenacity is perfectly suited to what many think the role of a VP in a campaign should be. Let the number one stick to the big ideas and overall vision and let the VP pound away at the opponent. I think she would be a huge asset in this role just hammering away at McCain. I think Edwards failed in this role in 2004.
3. I think the biggest reason to put her on the ticket. Make sure she has skin in the game for the general election. I, like many suspect that if she doesn't win the nomination ,while publicly portraying the good Democrat, will act behind the scenes to undermine Obama to gain position for 2012. If she is tied to the ticket she will be forced to put her all into the campaign. She knows that VP candidates who lose in the general are rarely chosen atop of the ticket later. She would know that her only route to the presidency would then be in 2016 if she chooses to run at her age by then.

Hillary is everything Obama is campaigning to change. If he brought her on, he would be saying his entire campaign was a lie.

In addition, after her use of assassination as a campaign strategy, she should not be allowed within 1/4 mile of Obama, EVER.

You don't negotiate and you don't earn the spot.

Once Obama has the nomination he can make a totally objective decision. That may or may not include Clinton.

my own favorite is the not often mentioned by pundits CA Sen Barbara Boxer -- she has LOTS of experience, strong foreign policy background, voted NO on the Iraq War Resolution, strong on greenhouse (for a pol), said to be very knowledgeable and competent, charismatic and popular, low negatives among moderates and progressives, no serious baggage AFAIK, would unite party like a charm. could be very helpful in FL, and, my guesstimate, among suburban women swing voters

Stabenow voted no on IWR also, and might have strong working class appeal, though a strong argument has been made that Obama is actually running STRONGER among working class NONblack Democrats against McCain than did either Kerry or Gore (recent article "Class Dismissed" from NY Times suggests that)

You mean based on your interpretations and opinions. I believe she has acted like a very strong leader.

You know, we had two elections stolen. Both Gore and Kerry conceded way too quickly, without a real fight. I have no doubt that Obama would concede just as quickly. Clinton WOULD NOT. She has proven that she's no quitter. If she is on the ticket, she won't let Obama quit either.

Democratic party and put the November election in jeopardy. I wouldn't want her and Bill lurking in the background, looking for an opening. She has shown her colors. Bill is a disappointment.

Its too bad she pissed in the well.

There are scores and scores of other Democrats I'd rather see Obama pick for the veep nom.

That is not the point. I think this is just pragmatic politics.

nothing like a blood sucking leach as a VP,
or a vulture.

In case you missed it, that fairy tale ended her campaign. Who wants to elect a known LIAR of whopper proportion in the WH, other than the neocons?

Maybe a cabinet position (for her fans). Its OBAMA'S decision. Not anyone else's.

Fail.

There have been many times the party leaders have forced a VP on a nominee when the race has been close.

That is arguably a better position than VP, especially if the Democrats remain in power and make her Chief Justice (not overwhelmingly likely, but SCOTUS Justice is pretty fine). She might also rather be her own person and be Gov of NY

SCOTUS Justice is arguably a better position than VP, especially if the Democrats remain in power and make her Chief Justice (not overwhelmingly likely, but SCOTUS Justice is pretty fine). She might also rather be her own person and be Gov

are people suggesting this STUPID?

Just because the Media didn't put the dirt on Hillary and Bill into their echo chamber and loop it like Rev Wright, doesn't mean they can't or won't.

She also has massive negatives that will never go away.

She's attacked Obama on video in ways that would be used against the ticket in November.

Why should we reward her sleazy behavior?

She needs to be humiliated and drummed out of the party.

and her "hit job" nutcase of a husband AWAY from the seat of power.

Short of Pauly Shore, I really don't think it matters much who Obama picks.

This is the Barack Obama show, and nobody will decide whether to watch just because of the co-host.

I would pick Pauly Shore over Hillary.

and an environmental record...

And it wouldnt be worth the votes Obama would lose. She's done too much damage now. Its over.

And she worked hard to get it.

Clinton's negatives are THROUGH THE ROOF

get it?

she'll hurt him and the pair of them, the Clinton's, will undermine his ability to govern

you're completely wrong

FURTHER, I find your support of Obama questionable

Obama has earned the nomination and thus the right to pick his VP. He needs to pick someone who he can trust and also someone who doesn't have the potential to distract from his message and agenda. Clinton will be just fine in the Senate.

If he really thinks she's the best way to go, I defer to his judgment. If not, this isn't abour hurt feelings, it's about winning and (probably even more important to Obama) governing once he has won. Hard to imagine how she helps on that latter count, since every time Bill bangs a bimbo on the Burkle jet, and/or Hill tears up for one reason or another, Obama's White House will become a footnote.

ticket would beat Obama, but yea I think she's earned it.

:rofl:

doesn't inspire confidence that "she has earned it"

The Clinton's are very controversial, not only when Bill Clinton was president, but how she has ran her campaign

She hits Obama on experience, but the truth is, she doesn't have that much experience herself

claiming that the slot can be "earned" doesn't work for me. Obama will choose the candidate that works best for his candidacy and it will have nothing to do with any "gold stars" earned. His criteria for selecting a running mate will likely be long, complex and thoughtful. It will entail more than just "who else got votes in the primary season".

This being said, I'm sure Hillary is under consideration but to have the expectation that she should be picked or has earned something oversimplifies the criteria involved in the selection process.

Some things will be difficult with her on board. Lobbyists power will continue. Charges against George W and his crew won't happen and just having to see and listen to her will just plain suck. But compared to a McCain victory there is no comparison.

Veep can be any of a number of people and should be someone who both compliments the Nom's electability and to help achieve party goals after elections. No one is entitled to it.

There's a good case to be made for Hillary (as well as several others I can think of) but she's in no way ENTITLED to it.

She has not 'earned' it, but she might be able to demand it. I am fine with Clinton as VP (and am desperately attempting to avoid references to either 'on top' or 'on bottom' here) if that is what it takes to bring her disgruntled (and mislead) supporters back into the fold.

I think people are confusing this idea as an endorsement of her or the campaign she has run. This could not be further from truth. I like many have lost a lot of respect for the Clintons throughout this campaign and in the privacy of my house I have let some pretty imaginative strings of obscenities at the Clinton camp. We need to get past that and figure out what helps the party.

but she owes quite a lot.

view of politics and governance. IMHO, Hillary is not that person; however, if Barack thinks she can be helpful, I'll support his decision.

The behavior of Hillary and her surrogates during this campaign has finally destroyed the mythology of the Clintons and the DLC as any sort of "saviors" of the Democratic party. They are part of the problem, not the solution, and they do not need to be rewarded, and have the life of that piece of shit Republican infiltration extended.

You really must think we are stupid. Go back to HQ tell Rush it's not working.

I voted for BO and have done more volunteer work for him than I ever have in my life. Trust me I just want to see him elected.

I tend to think not.

She gave the media plenty of ammo along the way. Also, I don't like that assassination is so prominent in her mind. And what about that "change" theme, that would be out of the question with the establishment on the ticket. No thanks.

Or at least a big chunk of them.

They're not all "poor white southerners that would never vote for a black man because he'll make white people slaves but that are somehow going to vote for a Democrat white woman named Clinton in the general election over a Republican white man".

And those that are, STILL won't vote for him.

I don't think Obama needs her. He needs to fill his gap in National Security.

Most of Hillary's supporters are going to vote their interests. And that means most of her support is going to switch to Obama.

Having her on the ticket increases the odds that many, many Republicans will come out to defeat her because just as some Democrats see her as a "twofer"--we get her AND Bill. So do many Republicans.

And not in a good way.

Plus, she simply can't be trusted.

One of the good things about this dragging on is that she has clearly shown that.

I just think the closer the margin in a primary the greater likelihood the party leaders will have to put the loser on the ticket. I don't think JFK really wanted LBJ and the same with Reagan and Poppy Bush. It is just a reality that we Obama supporters might have to get used to. I am sure there are other reasons this won't work that I left out. And I have been just as pissed as anyone about some of the nonsense the Clinton camp has pulled, but to dismiss the idea out of hand is both unrealistic and counter-productive.

And there were many fingers pointing to their VPs which "hated them".

No thanks...Hillary can hope and dream about assassination outside of the ticket.

I esp. laugh at reason #3 "Make sure she has skin in the game. ..." Wouldn't it be easier and faster to just offer the VP slot to McCain and get it over with?

She's earned nothing.

..with her right-wing playbook, her right-wing tactics, and her right-wing endorsement of McSame over Obama, I'd say she's done NOTHING to deserve the Democratic VP nomination whatsoever...

If she hadn't acted like such a lunatic, then I'd be all for it. At this point he would likely lose more support than he would gain. Not only does everyone with 20 paces of the right HATE her, but now a lot of Dems hate her as well.

I'm not sure.

She could also be a bulldog in the Senate. At the same time, have her/Bill's tactics precluded her right to the VP slot - many (including me) would say yes.

But ultimately, I trust Obama will make the decision he feels is best for the ticket, the party, and the country. If he picks Hillary, they have my vote regardless.

:grr: puke: :nuke:

But it's May 29, not January 29, and it's time for Clinton to move back to doing her job in the senate.

...of the Democratic nominee. Time for the Clinton/Bush era to end ~ and the people's era to begin!

"And Senator Obama has a speech he made in 2002." ~ Hillary Clinton

Yeah, she's earned it alright.