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NYT: "Mr. Obama is wheezing across the finish line..."

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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:13 AM
Original message
NYT: "Mr. Obama is wheezing across the finish line..."
Obama supporters remain unaware of what discerning Democrats have long ago figured out: the little guy is a walking catastrophe for the Party. They must have reality on ignore.

"In many ways, Mr. Obama is wheezing across the finish line after making a strong start: He has won only 6 of the 13 Democratic contests held since March 4, drawing 6.1 million votes, compared with 6.6 million for Mrs. Clinton."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/us/politics/01dems.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1212318052-fjieYI8lTgh4KokET/QgjA

Sundry comments from around the web:

From Texas on, he waged a non-stop character attack on Hillary that dominated the headlines.

My problem now is that I not only do not trust Obama, but I don't want to be a part of a group that pushed this type of smear campaign to win.

Race is an issue because the Obama people knew how to play it. All they needed were a handful of the Villagers and a compliant MSM to hold their disbelief and those pretend charges became fact. Seeing the hatred spew forth on blogs friendly to Obama is disgusting. Putting this support behind an unprepared and inexperienced candidate who has so many holes in is resume as to beg an answer is deeply puzzling.

Via Politico, the Pew Research Center has a new report, available here, finding 49% of white women and 35% of Democratic white women now have a negative perception of Obama. Politico summarizes:

Forty-nine percent of white women view Obama unfavorably, while only 43 percent hold a favorable opinion. In February, 36 percent of these women viewed Obama unfavorably, while 56 percent had a positive perception of the likely Democratic nominee.

Over the same period, Democratic white women's negative view of Obama increased from 21 percent to 35 percent, while their positive view decreased from 72 percent to 60 percent — roughly the same rate as white women overall.

For months now I have believed that the GOP wanted Obama to win all along - b/c they knew that Hillary could beat McCain.

I'm with PJ. I am absolutely lost if Hillary doesn't win the nomination. I can't abide an Obama presidency. So I guess I will work and support John McCain. I don't see we have much choice really. Its not so much an issue of revenge, or protest. Its a genuine concern that Obama is more of a threat to this country than McCain. I may not like McCain, I have a lot of reservations about the Supreme Court nominees, and the war, but Obama is just dangerously inexperienced and inept. It really does become an issue of who is the lesser of two evils. I just don't understand how it came to this. I don't understand how the DNC can allow this. And how they can't see or hear our voices.

Its incredible how the neo-liberals have mischaracterized the Clintons and have blindly supported Obama and the Rovian tactics that have been used during this primary election season. All of the critical articles Conason has written about Rove over the last 8 years and he still doesn't get it that Axelrove has used the same tactics—-attacking the character and the strengths of the opponent

Now the neo-liberal, far-left have become the fanatical fringe spewing hatred. It seems that the neo-liberals have taken the extremist far-right hate tactics into their playbooks and they cannot even see that they have done so—-at their own short-sighted ridiculousness and peril—especially for the future of our democracy and America.
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. One of those white women who is sick of Obama spewing hatred?
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. The Obama crowd like to provoke people--then condemn them when they react.
It's a pretty sleazy pattern, but most of us are familiar with it by now.
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Oh, so she's OUR FAULT
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 06:25 AM by boobooday
ha

That figures.

:rofl:

Edit: Okay, I admit, I did it. I got her drunk and provoked her in the ladies room right before her tirade.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
61. LOL, that is exactly what you do, try to provoke and then condemn anyone who
reacts to your posts.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
77. you are sad. in the end, you will lose. Oh, and TUZLA! That might
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 11:15 AM by roguevalley
be part of her problem, the lousy candidate. The worst campaign in the last fifty years. enjoy your romp. in three days this will get you tombstoned.

PS: CNN'S commissioned exit polls put the PR turnout low, a bad sign for your queen. if Barack can get his ground game going as usual, he could dent her little delusion big time.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
98. Perry's Paradox: Everything is Obama's fault, even the ignorance of rabid Hillarites.
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 12:31 PM by JackORoses
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SparkyMac Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. I've seen the term "white woman" and "white man" .....
... more in the past two months than in the previous 30 years. Are our relationships moving backward ? They use to print those phrases on restroom doors.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
62. Damn. Girlfriend was drunk and stupid.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. It must suck to have your candidate lose to him if that's how you think of it.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. Not really, since Hillary was never "my candidate."
I'm a compulsive Clinton defender, so it's understandable that people would see me as a Hillary partisan.

The truth is, my politics are far to the left of Hillary. The guy I liked best was Edwards. I was not trying to deceive anyone, but was simply caught up in my defend-the-Clintons compulsion.

Plus I've researched Obama--as you should do--and discovered he is a very bad prospect for us.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #27
51. LMAO!
:rofl:


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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #27
76. How is Obama a very bad prospect for us?
Inquiring minds want to know. Take your time. The space for your answer expands to as large as necessary. This being Sunday, most of us have the time to be enlightened by your answer(s) in this space today. Links from reliable sources are a must.
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
101. hehe. I think long ago near all of us could guess who your candidate is
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
103. Well since you were a Edwards supporter,
and you have so little regard for Obama..Has that effected your outlook on your prior support of
Edwards, do your question your prior judgement?? seeing that Edwards supports Obama??? ... or are you just mad a Obama supporters?? figuring that out might make things a whole lot easier
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kitfalbo Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
105. hmmm.
I'm starting to think that McCain is really your candidate.
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kstewart33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think we're beyond this kind of flamebait post.
It does not merit further comment.

Time for all of us to unite behind Obama and focus all efforts on McCain.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. But not THIS Hillary-supporter!
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 06:32 AM by pnorman


I believe she's from Dixiecrat Underground!

pnorman
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gaiilonfong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
56. Is this Taylor Marsh without the wig?
I think so
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. It is ALWAYS a 'good idea' to put our WEAKEST FOOT forward.
The OUTCOME will continue to ALWAYS repeat and be the SAME. Hats off to the SDs and DNC, great job.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Amen. Everyone but the Bammers knows the little guy will be a CATASTROPHE.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. nope. your midgel little gal. IS a walking talking CATASTROPHE
thank goodness she blew it in the primaries.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. Midgel little gal?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. hey, just trying to keep up with your nastiness about Obama
and I meant moral midget. hillary has demonstrated how small she really is. And how incompetent.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. The NEW MILLENNIUM track record must remain intact; we're on a streak.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
88. still hoping for the "Catastrophic Event"?
I wonder if you will ever give up bashing and trashing. I don't think so.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. Now that we know for certain that
Hillary will not be the Democratic candidate, let's all tear apart the remaining candidate on a Democratic forum. That should help the party.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. Considering Obama's campaign wrote the book on tearing Democrats down, you've got some real nerve.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #22
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
63. Go make wine with those sour grapes. You're sickening.
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cosmicsheep Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
64. delusional!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #64
71. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. wheezing or not, he's crossing it. your little gal hillykins fell flat on her wittle
face tripping over her own feet.

and do stop throwing around terms you obviously don't have a clue about.

hilly lost. fair and square. that's all there is to it. tough.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. You need to get out more. Obama will lose. Republicans are singing and dancing again.
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 06:21 AM by Perry Logan
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. you need to get rid of your cheapo faux crystal ball. Anyone with a functioning brain
knows that predictions 5 months out from the election, have the value of a piece of used toilet paper. You're just engaging in wishful, petty thinking because the little gal blew it and lost.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
55. Thank you for alerting us to your "electability" concerns.
Jesus Christ.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
96. Na', I know you want McCain because you can't stand the thought of a black man in the WH.
But you need to get out more, Obama = 44!

Accept it, Love it and move on! :)
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
100. Actually George Will and David "Bobo" Brooks weren't singing and dancing today.
Both said on the Stephanopolous show that the Democratic Party came out looking pretty good yesterday, and that in November we'll likely be talking about President Obama. :-)
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. The Moonie Times is not worth the paper it is printed on.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. It's the NYT and whether or not it's worth the paper it's printed on,
the article has a valid point. He's not finishing strongly. Still, he's won it, and he's clearly finishing stronger than hilly.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. The Obama people seem to think nothing of taking stuff from Drudge, etc.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
74. oh yeah--many Obama folks have been hitting the RW smear Drudge report for their 'evidence' lately!!
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. Oh, what a fair, objective piece of political writing. Not. Example of why HRC lost. nt
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Clarification: those quotes were not me, but were from various anti-Obama websites run by Democrats.
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 06:25 AM by Perry Logan
Those were not my comments. I'm presenting them to tell you what Democrats are saying. It's hard trying to penetrate the delusional bubble which surrounds Obama supporters.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #17
44. I know. That's what I was referring to. nt
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. Here's the most important reason Barack is winning
and will win in November.

In general, people like him more than McCain or Hillary.

It has nothing to do with sexism or "attacks."
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. The popular vote indicates people like Hillary the most.
No matter how Obama followers try to spin it, Hillary has received a popular vote of historic proportions.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. And Obama seems to get weaker as people get to know him better. Not good!
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
87. Not true
Even polls from CNN, dubbed by many as the Clinton News Network, show him gaining strength against McCain and within the Party vis-avis Hillary.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
92. "mis-remembering"
I don't think lies should be tolerated.

http://www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=17&num=16150

HILL TROUNCING RIVALS IN N.H. & OHIO
By IAN BISHOP
January 31, 2007 -- WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton has blown past her primary rivals in the 2008 kickoff state of New Hampshire, and bests the field of White House hopefuls in the swing state of Ohio, new polls show.


Clinton's poll bounce comes on the heels of her announcement that she's running, and her much-publicized first campaign foray into Iowa this past weekend.

She had enjoyed a high-tech campaign rollout, featuring a video announcement of her candidacy and three nights of Web chats with supporters.

"We had a great first week and we hope it is a sign of things to come," campaign spokesman Phil Singer told The Post yesterday.

Clinton has jumped out to a 15-point lead in New Hampshire over her leading rival, Barack Obama, 40 percent to 25 percent, the new Survey USA poll shows. Former Sen. John Edwards stands at 23 percent.


Hillary Clinton: Is the Democratic Nomination All Hers?
She doesn’t have the nomination prize wrapped up just yet, but the paper and ribbon are handy.


By Richard Sammon, Senior Associate Editor, The Kiplinger Letter
October 22, 2007
http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/Hillary_Clinton_Is_Democratic_Nomination_Hers_071022.html

Hillary Clinton’s lead over her Democratic rivals is starting to look formidable. The N.Y. senator is overshadowing the other presidential hopefuls, pulling way ahead in the polls, in fundraising and in organization.

The media are starting to refer to her as the presumptive nominee, a characterization that must make the other candidates feel frustrated.



CLINTON HAS 33-POINT LEAD
By GEOFF EARLE

October 4, 2007 -- WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton has jumped to an astounding 33-point lead over Barack Obama, topping her main rival among every major slice of the electorate and widening a dominating advantage she has held all summer.

Clinton got support from a full majority for the first time in any national survey about the Democratic presidential field. She is backed by 53 percent in the latest Washington Post/ABC News poll.

Obama follows far behind, with 20 percent, and John Edwards has 13 percent.

"I think it's pretty well done, don't you? All over but the voting," said Rep. Tom Petri (D-Wis.), when asked about the poll
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10042007/news/nationalnews/clinton_has_33_point_lead.htm


May 8th, 2007 at 13:15:24

Poll: Clinton pulls ahead of Obama

http://rawstory.com/comments/31343.html
Agence France-Presse

Hillary Clinton has taken a 15 percentage-point lead over fellow US Senator Barack Obama in the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination, according to poll results published Tuesday...


October 3, 2007, 1:45 pm

By Dalia Sussman

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton far outpaces her main Democratic rivals to handle a range of issues, and she is considered the strongest leader and the most electable – forces that have helped her widen her lead in the race for the Democratic nomination, according to a new ABC News/Washington Post poll.

Mrs. Clinton has anywhere from a 30-point lead to a 51-point lead over Senator Barack Obama
to handle health care, the economy, the war in Iraq and the campaign against terrorism, the poll found.


Poll: Hillary Ahead In South Carolina
By Eric Kleefeld - August 22, 2007, 10:35AM
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/08/poll_hillary_ahead_in_south_carolina.php
New polling from Rasmussen has Hillary Clinton beating Barack Obama in the South Carolina primary, with 38% for Hillary against 30% for Obama, with John Edwards at a distant third with 13%. Hillary and Obama are even among black voters, a demographic in which Obama needs a strong majority in order to win. Among whites, Hillary leads with Edwards in second, and Obama far behind.


Iowa Poll Shows Clinton Ahead By 29 Percent

http://wap.nbc5.com/detail.jsp?key=251931&rc=ln_ne
10/08/2007 -- There's a new poll out in the all important state of Iowa that shows presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton ahead by 29 percent, with John Edwards and Sen. Barack Obama not far behind.


Clinton leaving Obama in the dust in latest state poll

Friday, August 17, 2007

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/08/17/MNG7RJV1E1.DTL&type=politics
New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, bolstered by an aggressive campaign organization in California, has amassed a whopping 30-point lead over Illinois Sen. Barack Obama - and enjoys more support among likely voters in the state Democratic primary than all of her Democratic presidential rivals combined, a Field Poll released today shows.
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. She totally got more votes than Obama in Michigan
Nobody likes Obama in Michigan where he got zero votes.

:sarcasm:
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. Good thing too - where else would the rules committee have been able to steal delegates for Obama?
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
91. Steal?
Even if he gave her 55% and he wound up taking the remainder - the argument Clinton members of the Rules Committee were making - she only nets out 4 more delegates.

By the end of the week Barack will have another 100 delegates. So his campaign had no incentive to "steal."
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
106. Rules committee approved MI state party proposal. State party determines delegate split.
And no one can "steal" what wasn't had to begin with in an invalid, unsanctioned primary contest.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
85. You can't count the Michigan popular vote
Barack was not on the ballot. But if you do count it then to be fair you have to acknowledge that exit polls showed 3/4 of the uncommitted would have voted for him. That adds over 200,000 votes and would give him the popular vote lead.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
89. Obama won the "popular vote"...
the bogus election you love to include, was declared invalid by the Democratic State Party in Michigan. It seems Michigan likes to have elections that feature candidates. Weird huh?
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
99. The popular vote indicates people like Hillary the most.

Your dense.

Well...too bad.

I would really love to see a woman president. Just not hillary. See is just riding
on the coat tails and the popularity of her husband, BILL CLINTON.

I want to see a woman win it based on her own hard work and acomplishment - not on the
poularity of some past president america was amored with.

Just exactly what are hillarys acomplishments - beside sitting on her ever widening butt
talking about doing something for the past 30 something years.

CLINTONITES YOU GONNA GET WHAT YOU REALLY DESERVE - HILLARY HANGING HER HEAD IN DEFEAT.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
20. Where does that leave Her Majesty?
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. She will campaign for Obama. Obama will lose. The Obama people will blame her for Obama's loss.
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 06:29 AM by Perry Logan
You heard it here first.
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michaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Sorry, I am not buying this line.
Obama will win and this country will see how fortunate they are to have him as President. Hillary Clinton will have to live with herself regarding the mess she has caused. All she is doing is hurting herself simply because she just can't accept the fact she has lost. It is a shame she continues with her nonsense because it will hurt her here in NYS. 2 people are in this race, and both had a right to be, but one has become the clear winner and it is time for the loser to bow out gracefully. Hillary appears to be having a hard time bowing out.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. That's a succinct statement of the Obama Party Line. I just think it's 180 degrees wrong.
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michaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. Succinct? Got all day? Sometimes it is best to be brief. But...
the matter still remains the same. You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. It doesn't change the facts though. He is winning and there is a reason for that, obviously. She is losing and causing all kinds of trouble. Facts are facts.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. They have already made that pre-emptive strike
It's a great argument. If Obama loses it will be Hillary's fault.

Have to say. If Hillary emerged the nominee at this point I don't think i would be worrying about her losing. Nor pre-emptively blaming those Obama folk who can't abide her and have been tearing her down and dancing up and down like an emoticon saying they will never vote for her.

I don't get all the fear and anxiety on their part. Unless it is actually about something else.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #25
75. its a GIVEN that the obama camp and his followers will blame Hillary when they lose.
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
86. Hillary Should Be Held Responsible
She has validated the idea that the "white working class" is a voting group that is somehow separate from minorities and other groups of Americans. It is classic wedge issue election tactics, rather than trying to promote inclusion. Now, Obama is left with the mess HIllary created.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
23. Misgivings and reservations aside, I have to support Obama
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 06:43 AM by wyldwolf
Though I agree with some of the sentiments in your post, I live by this philosophy: "The worst Democrat is better than the best Republican." In this case, Obama is not the worst (not even close) we could have put up there and McCain is not the best the opposition could have put there.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Spoken like a Democrat. I'm with you.
I just think it's going to be a big catastrophe. I totally hope I'm wrong. I will wear my dunce cap proudly if I'm wrong.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
43. I don't see how Obama looses
To many factors are working against the GOP this year.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
46. The 'Licans seem to think he's the best they could come up with . . .
Saying that if anyone else had won, they'd be toast.

I agree that their whole slate was nothing but losers and/or assholes, but I can't think of any of them with more of a chance to forge some sort of coalition near the middle that might eke out a victory. One made up of:

• Non-batshit-crazy 'Licans (a larger number than we'd like to admit)
• Religious wackos not so far around the bend that they don't realize that for *their* causes the worst Republican is better than the best Democrat
• Religious wackos completely off the reservation who'll still vote 'Lican no matter what
• Quasi-centrists who find McCain's "maturity" comforting
• Quasi-centrists voting for the McCain they thought they saw in 2000.
• People so pissed Clinton didn't win they'll vote for McCain in spite
• Racists
• Big business types who own McCain regardless of any positions he may take -- and those who listen to such people

etc., etc.

Could Guiliani, or Huckabee, or Romney put together such a "coalition"?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Guiliani, yes
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. From a policy point of view, maybe . . .
From a campaign point of view, no way. He was the biggest asshole in the 'Lican field with an ick factor that was off the charts. I'd looooooove to have *any* of our primary contenders up against Giuliani in the general.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. we're not exactly discussing campaigns. We're discussing who the GOP's best chance was
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 07:00 AM by wyldwolf
... if any of the 11 had gotten the nomination. Regardless of how bad his campaign was, he had the centrist credentials of McCain without a senate voting record. "Ick" factors do little to sway the electorate.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
107. Well there I disagree with you . . .
If it was credentials and policies alone (or even predominantly), then American history would look entirely different. I don't think any of the last 10 presidents could have gotten elected on credentials and policies in isolation from their personality/spin, ick/charisma, and campaign organization/disorganization.

Guiliani pretends to be a centrist but is actually an authoritarian (who enjoys tearing the wings off flies for political benefit -- remember the "squeegee men" -- all 50 of them?). His resume is very thin -- "America's mayor" who's spent the rest of his career in law enforcement or quasi-LE. The ick factor was significant in dragging his campaign down, as was his inadequate organization (which of course reflects on the candidate). Ultimately, he's been seen as a phony (a derivative of ick + credentials) and that's what killed him.
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insanity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
30. Ok
I'd rather have a candidate who could finish then one who couldn't finish despite having a shortcut paved for her.

I really think that if Hillary bows out gracefully and supports Obama and can get her supporters to do the same it goes away. I also think that once Obama and McCain share a stage people will realize that John McCain is the definition of an out-of-touch lunatic.

McCain won against Huckabee, Romney, Grandpa Thompson, Rudy, etc...
Obama beat the Clintons. I think we have a good chance.

That being said, the article makes a good snapshot point, but I'd argue that he is still winning more delegates.
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Richbru Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #30
48. You have no chance....
Hillary won't bow out gracefully because she knows she's the stronger candidate. Obama has already proved he is out of touch and has a no idea what to say without a teleprompter. He will continue to make a gaffe a day until the debates. McCain will win each one convincingly and show the world Obama's an empty suit.

The dems have blown it again before it's even started. Obama leaving Trinity was the last straw by showing weakness and the poor judgment he's exhibited for the last 20 years. The American people don't know him and those that do don't trust him.

Last night, John McCain won the election.
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insanity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. I agree that the Trinity thing was rubbish
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 06:57 AM by insanity
I think the Trinity thing was more depressing in that it shows our country's obsession with 1 hour out of the week being the way in which we judge every other hour the person lives... its backwards and it doesn't belong in America.

That being said, Obama a gaffe machine? I'm fairly sure Senator Clinton said she dodged sniper bullets during that poetry reading in Bosnia. I'm also pretty sure her and her campaign have used every amount of rhetoric and metric changes and are still unable to take a dent out of his lead.

I also think McCain is being given a free pass right now because Senator Clinton refuses to accept defeat.

And how can you argue she is stronger when she got beat by a freshman senator who only makes mistakes?
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Richbru Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #53
60. Clinton has made many gaffs too
the problem here is more because of the party, and the media. There is no reason that we should lose this fall but the odds look more each day that we will. It's tough enough for a woman or black to be elected so why have your top two candidates come with so much baggage? These people both need to be perfect to win the general and they are far from that.

Super delegates are sticking with Obama because of the black vote. If he was white we would be talking McCain vs Hillary today.

The media's love affair with Obama might have not happened if the church issue had been exposed earlier in the campaign.

The party knows they are likely to lose but are stuck. We'll take our chances and hope for a miracle but I'm not holding my breath.


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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
34. When will you come over to the light Perry?
I hope to see you posting nice articles for our nominee soon. ;) :7
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. When Obama is the nominee, have no fear.
I'll post good stuff about Obama--if I ever find any.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Lol
:rofl: That was very good. love your dry wit.
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Richbru Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #37
52. So will I but
I except to have a lot of free time!
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
45. Obama got a shit-kicking in MSM for 1 1/2 months over Wright
after Hillary cried about the media being "unfair". It is surprising Obama did as well as he did. That's OVER and we've all moved on.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #45
59. I guess that's why Obama just quit his church, huh?
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
95. Did you listen to what Obama said..
or did you listen to what FOX news said? The Church and it's congregants have been mercilessly harassed. Every word that anyone says..even those of a visiting priest who has no affiliation with the Church, are put into Obama's mouth. It is only right that these people should be left in peace. It is their church, it is their community, not Obama's. As much as you would like it to be.
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geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
49. this is the weirdest, stupidest post I have ever seen on DU.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #49
58. This is the weirdest, stupidest comment I have ever seen on DU.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #58
66. Elevating the discourse as usual....
What's with the Clinton supporters and their one-line responses most of the time? Do y'all think it's pithy or something?
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
57. Obama knew that his favorable states were in the middle
The Obama campaign spreadsheet very accurately predicted that the states that lined up well for him were the ones after Super Tuesday, and then the remaining states would be slightly in Clinton's favor. That is, they predicted that most of the variation in state-by-state results would be due to demographics etc of the state, and only very little due to momentum. To the extent that there was momentum, Obama tended to overperform. But it was apparent all along that out of the 50 states, some would go for HRC and some for Obama. Luck of the draw is that they came when they did. He won a lot more of them. He won the election. Wheezing is just a journalistic fabrication.
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Unbowed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
65. Ha! More like a leisurely stroll. Clinton's the one wheezing, from all that running in place. n/t
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
67. Senator Clinton was left for dead by the side of the road about 8 races back.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
68. You said it here....
"Now the neo-liberal, far-left have become the fanatical fringe spewing hatred. It seems that the neo-liberals have taken the extremist far-right hate tactics into their playbooks and they cannot even see that they have done so—-at their own short-sighted ridiculousness and peril—especially for the future of our democracy and America."
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
69. "the little guy" is at least 5 inches taller then either Hillary, or McRage.
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 10:57 AM by MilesColtrane
You wouldn't be implying that Obama is a "boy", now would you?

WTF?

Are you going to vote for the Democrat in November?

If so, maybe you should stop trying to tear down our party's nominee.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
70. Well, it's a bit difficult with Miss Delusional grabbing onto his ankles...
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
72. Three more days of this bullshit
then it's get in line or go away.
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gabby garcia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
73. oh Perry..
i cannot wait til you are TS'd.

powers that be - please make it happen soon!

gg
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
78. okay..
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
79. stop posting anti-democratic threads Perry
hes our nominee, deal with it.

anybody who attacks obama is now attacking the democratic party.


i cant wait until MODS around here wake up and start locking this garbage.


shouldnt u be off making a video that nobody understands perry?
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
80. I don't think "wheezing" across the finish line is a fair description.
Hillary winning one more primary than Obama in the last 13 primaries is hardly a runaway victory. Neither is Hillary winning 6.6 million to 6.1 million votes anything to brag about in states that Hillary was expected to win in. I think Obama has done very well in the last few races and those numbers prove it.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
81. In first place
you conveniently forgot that part.

Loser.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
82. ....
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. Naaaa...Hillary's more like this.







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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
84. Neoliberal misused.
Neoliberals aren't the "far left." Neoliberalism is about economics, and the far left isn't corporate.

<snip>

"Liberalism" can refer to political, economic, or even religious ideas. In the U.S. political liberalism has been a strategy to prevent social conflict. It is presented to poor and working people as progressive compared to conservative or Rightwing. Economic liberalism is different. Conservative politicians who say they hate "liberals" -- meaning the political type -- have no real problem with economic liberalism, including neoliberalism.

"Neo" means we are talking about a new kind of liberalism. So what was the old kind? The liberal school of economics became famous in Europe when Adam Smith, an Scottish economist, published a book in 1776 called THE WEALTH OF NATIONS. He and others advocated the abolition of government intervention in economic matters. No restrictions on manufacturing, no barriers to commerce, no tariffs, he said; free trade was the best way for a nation's economy to develop. Such ideas were "liberal" in the sense of no controls. This application of individualism encouraged "free" enterprise," "free" competition -- which came to mean, free for the capitalists to make huge profits as they wished.

Economic liberalism prevailed in the United States through the 1800s and early 1900s. Then the Great Depression of the 1930s led an economist named John Maynard Keynes to a theory that challenged liberalism as the best policy for capitalists. He said, in essence, that full employment is necessary for capitalism to grow and it can be achieved only if governments and central banks intervene to increase employment. These ideas had much influence on President Roosevelt's New Deal -- which did improve life for many people. The belief that government should advance the common good became widely accepted.

But the capitalist crisis over the last 25 years, with its shrinking profit rates, inspired the corporate elite to revive economic liberalism. That's what makes it "neo" or new. Now, with the rapid globalization of the capitalist economy, we are seeing neo-liberalism on a global scale.


http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376

Both Obama and Clinton are neoliberals.
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
90. and for another day...
...our own rambling, shambling professor Irwin Corey shares more pearls of wisdom on quantum physics, peanut brittle, the follicular strength of monkey fur and incontinence all in the same post.

You are an entertaining fellow, sir.
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george_maniakes Donating Member (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
93. maybe he'll get the asthmatic sympathy vote. n/t
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
94.  "Mr. Obama is wheezing across the finish line

You don't know how glad it makes me to see losers like you whine.

Oh, and there is nothing you can do about it except whine.

YAWN Obama 08
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
97. Your negativity is sad, i hope your real life is more positive.
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kdpeters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
102. So much for "unity" from the bitter dead-enders.
So be it. It's only three more days to have to tolerate the likes of you.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
104. In Feb Pew Research showed 25% of white democrats would not vote for Obama
white males - no Obama, Camp Obama said they didn't need them, dems don't win that vote (or presidential elections)

That was prior to the good Rev Wright hit the MSM.


now they don't need the white female votes, or the female vote in general.

Do they really think the 18 - 29 yr olds are going to wait in line to vote? I know some young professionals lost their interest in him after Wright.

They better hope those low information voters under 30 show up and wait in line behind their grandmothers to vote.
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