FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, *NOT* SAM NUNN!!!

Grr...Obama team weighs Edwards, Nunn as running mates

Look, you've made me use all caps. Are you happy now?

You know, I've been having a good time handing out Obama bumperstickers, buying Obama buttons, sending Obama money, thinking about how nice it will be to have a president we can respect, etc. etc. etc....and I even enjoyed listening to him talk for 24 minutes about how families need fathers whilst thinking, "Well, my family doesn't, but I get it that you're not really talking to people in my situation, and hey, you don't always have to be, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt, even though I really haven't heard you talk much about GBLT stuff so I really don't know where you are with that except that you did send that nice greeting to the Equality Illinois dinner, but anyway, I've never been a one-issue voter, which is goddamn lucky for me, isn't it, cause our presidential candidates never *really* support my one issue, do they."

But please. For me. For all the other GBLT Democrats who are going to vote for you anyway. Not because we can make you do it, but just because we deserve a little something after all these years of sighing as we watch all of 'our' presidential candidates waffle on marriage equality and talk up their faith at every possible opportunity and generally try to avoid supporting us in any way that will piss off the phobes...DO NOT force us to cast a ballot for the asshole who fought to keep the ban on gays in the military!

:argh:

Seriously. Pick Hillary Clinton if you must, but DO NOT pick that jerk. Talk about undermining the message.

All right. I am done now. Move along, nothing to see here. Stupid AP, getting my blood pressure up over nothing.

On edit: VenusRising points out that I failed to notice that Obama's positions on GBLT issues are spelled out here. I acknowledge my boneheadedness in missing it. Still, if Obama is serious about any of the stuff that's on that page, then picking Nunn as VP makes NO SENSE whatever.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

After 12 years of Republican presidents, we get one of our own, and Nunn whumped him over...gays in the military.

Nunn was the ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee. HE's Mr. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," NOT Bill Clinton.

Obama's keeping some strange company.

He would be a mighty strange choice. I'm just amazed he's on any kind of a list.

You're absolutely right that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is Nunn's baby, whereas Bill was merely the midwife who delivered it.

Ugh. Sorry about that image. Moving on.

It is my belief, and I will take it to my grave, that Clinton's failure to stand up to Nunn et al. on the ban on gays in the military was the drop of blood that drew all the sharks to him. He let people know that he was willing to back down if someone made a stink, and from then on in it was all about compromising. And Nunn was the one who led the way.

The AP piece points out that he's been out of office so long, a lot of people won't remember who he was. *I* frickin' remember him. So will a lot of other GBLT voters.

Anyway. I assume he's on there because of national security and being from Georgia, and that they will find some other veteran from the South who wouldn't alienate quite so many people. I hope.

The Plaid Adder

He has been on the right side in regards Iraq, Iran and other foreign policy issues from the get go, he has military experience, and, I believe he is fairly moderate/liberal on most major domestic issues. Plus, he is from the South. I would enthusiastically support THAT ticket!

:thumbsup:

In regards to Nunn as VP, NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:thumbsdown:

Even apart from the concerns you mentioned, Nunn is old, conservative, and a totally Establishment guy. He is exactly the opposite of everything the Obama campaign stands for. While it might be helpful for him to pick a Southerner and/or someone with strong foreign policy experience, there are other people who meet those qualifications who wouldn't thoroughly piss off most of Obama's base. If it's Nunn I'll eat my computer.

he may even make it to the short list, but people shouldn't blow a gasket over it. He's way too old and way too conservative for the ticket. It is possible his consideration is just something to add to his bio that he was considered for the VP spot.

I'll join you in eating my computer, piece by piece (and I'll one up you and do it a webcam and then post it on YouTube) if Nunn is the VP nominee.

That reminds me of someone....

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Never mind. Found it.

The Plaid Adder

But it's a good one anyway......


http://www.advocate.com/print_article_ektid53285.asp

which thanks to our friend below I have now managed to discover. It does kind of make it sound like Sam Nunn would be an insane choice for him to make.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

And the Bible also says in short that it's God's place to judge, not yours. Don't start the Christian-bashing, please.

For all the reasons you listed and many more.

He is the only pick I can think of worse than Biden.

They were both as close as you could get to being Republicans without actually admitting it.

"there's not a damn thing about us on your website"

http://pride.barackobama.com/page/content/lgbthome

How do you get there from his homepage? It's not linked in under "issues" and I couldn't find it when I was going through the site last weekend.

Oh, *I* see...it's under "people," not "issues." Duh.

Well, if he actually sticks with the positions he outlines on the site, then he'll be better than Clinton was. It is annoying to see him doing the semantics rumba (we'll make it just LIKE marriage but we won't CALL it marriage) but at least he supports the "good" ENDA.

The Plaid Adder

;)

Glad I could help you out.

:hi:

Oh well. I'm glad I found out about it at last, because I did think the list of "issues" was a little short.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

back in the nineties. Not a good one for Workers Rights.

Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Nunn

No kidding, I will stay home...

Obama already has a questionable gay rights background, this will seal the deal and I will be out.

Seriously, let them know. Let's see if all this "yes we can" stuff was for real.

Dear Mark,

Thank you for contacting Obama for America. The volume of messages we’re receiving has gone up since Barack’s victory in Iowa. While we cannot respond individually to over a thousand messages per day, the level of interest and thoughtfulness of the comments reflected in these communications are very gratifying. Your thoughts on our campaign and America's future are greatly appreciated.

Individual citizens like you are the foundation of this campaign...

But the alternative would be worse.

n/t

post of the day :thumbsup:

"Other lawmakers who have been briefed say there about 20 names on the list Obama's team has been discussing. The list includes current elected officials, former elected officials and retired military generals, lawmakers have said."

Well, imo, there's only 1 qualified, LIBERAL, general. ;)

There's more than one.

I know where he stands on the war, but that alone doesn't make him a liberal.

And his public pronouncements have extended to global warming, as well. Not just military matters. But he doesn't seek a public life....can't say I blame him. However, because of Obama's reliance on Zinni for advice, the Zinnis (the family) have already been given a work-over by the Secret Service (which indicates that Zinni may have a greater role in an Obama administration).

You did not say "General with a published domestic agenda"....you just said only one qualified liberal general. You are wrong....Zinni also fits that mold. Quit moving the goalposts to make your man seem in a class by himself...we liberals have many allies, and they all should be acknowledged.

being floated along with Clarke, and Webb, because of their military/foreign policy thing going on. I'm pretty ignorant about Sam Nunn, only having seen his name on some defense corporate boards. Thanks for the heads up. I'll pop off an email, and hit the blog.

You know, let them think they'll be included in this administration. Give them a little "Hope" as it were.

Maybe in November some of those conservative Southerners will still remember that their boy, Sam Nunn, "almost made it onto the ticket", so heck, how bad can it be? Go ahead and vote Dem, y'all!

I struggle with the argument that it would be political poison to do so, but I will defer to those that understand these things better than I. However, to choose a running mate who is repugnant to the community would seem to me to be a monumental error.

I will not vote for that ticket. I have voted for every Democratic ticket since I turned 18 and that is a few tickets. I have worked for most.
Obama is already a tepid supporter of many issues I believe in, to add Nunn would just be the end of it.
And it is not just GLBT issues with Nunn. Look him up. He's a passel of conservativism. Loves that 'war on drugs' for example.
Frankly, I am hesitant to donate to the DNC or Obama while all of these right wing veep candidates are being considered. Powell, Hagel, now Nunn...disgusting. Not a dime from me until I see a liberal Democrat at Obama's side. If he picks one of these gas bags, my vote will not be cast, just forget it. I do not vote against my family.
Obama's father's day talk was very difficult for a branch of my family. The older kids were pissed off and felt betrayed. Obama of all people should know that Dad is not always there, not always the best choice. Not to mention 2 Moms like in my family. He does not understand the scope of his audience. He does not think about my nieces. And so he insults their family, by mere lack of thought. It is getting damn old. He needs to fucking take a class, get a clue, take notes from the choir director at his new church, or his old one.
With Nunn on board, Obama would have to promise in writing no more McClurkins and come out in favor of actual equality, not his dogmatic neurotic bag of faith, taken up very late in life. Anything less and I'm going Green. Enough of these compromised, hand wringing cowards. Just enough of them. Look at this country, do we really have time to waste on this sort of bull? Does some politicians religion really mean we must halt progress.
Obama supported the Patriot Act Extention and Cheney's Energy Bill. And he opposes equailty for my family, while supporting some half assed bull that is insulting and unworkable. Thus far this nomiee lacks courage, and even a modicum of politness.
I see he apologized to the Muslim women with the head scarfs...and yet he never apologized for the bashing in his name delivered by McClurkin. All he had to say was sorry my guy was rude. That is all.

Obama's "official" position on us LGBT'ers --- I think his actions speak much louder than any of his words.

Edited to say: flame me if you must, but I believe what I believe based on evidence and no amount of name-calling is going to make me believe differently.

I see a real problem when it comes to the gay community and Obama. It's a demographic he needs. Selecting Nunn pretty much guarantees LGBT'ers who know even a little bit of history will stay home.

...that most people in the United States of Amnesia don't even remember who he was. And the younger generation - under 40 Obama supporters - have no interest in him, if they even know who he is. He brings nothing to the ticket.

I'm sure I've said nothing Obama's think tank doesn't know already.

I agree.

is very hard to imagine. Talk about trashing the "brand'.

n/t

recalcitrance, a sharp lack of appeal for Obama's veep nomination.

Then again, Senator Obama is unlikely to seek my input on the matter, so I will honor his choice, even if it is someone I'm far from crazy about like Nunn.

"Sam Nunn: None for me, thanks."

It's just that there are a LOT of other possibilities out there I like a whole lot better.

_ _ _ _
edited to add that I LOVE your subject heading. : ) :thumbsup: :hi:

Good post. Thank you.

But since Barak Obama is "the most liberal member of the Senate," he has to pick a conservative to "balance the ticket," right? Oh, wait, "the most liberal member of the Senate" is Hillary Clinton! No, I'm mistaken, it's John Kerry! But I forgot, it's supposed to be Ted Kennedy! Or was it John Edwards? Never mind, I'm confused...:crazy:

Edwards YES!

if he picked Nunn. And that's A LOT of votes.
Back in '93 I was enraged (still am) by Sam Nunn's homophobia in his meetings with Clinton over DOMA. ("Would you want to be in a foxhole with a queer?") Clinton backed down to the dismay of America's gay population.

running for presidency.

i am assuming obama wont do this.

I have trust in Obama and his campaign to make the right VP decision. If Sam Nunn is judged to be the one that gives us the best chance to win in Nov., I don't see a problem. Believe it or not, in order to win this election, Obama will probably need someone who is viewed as significantly to the right of himself. Lets look at the bigger picture.

a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Sorry. Bigots don't get a pass.

Are you speaking for the gay community, DU, all Democrats, what?

there are millions more

you are speaking for the entire gay community, interesting. There were also "millions" of HRC supporters who claimed they would never support Obama, now we have others who say they won't support Obama if he doesn't make a VP choice that meets their fancy. Man, no wonder we have so much trouble winning the WH. Again, lets put all the pettiness aside and look at the bigger picture.

there's a lot of opposition here and on DU in general. I don't speak for anyone but myself.

Go talk to gay and lesbian service members whose lives have been completely fucked up by Sam Nunn, listen to what they have to say, and then get back to me. There are scores of people Obama can choose who aren't raving bigots. I assume people would be just as negative if the campaign was floating an anti-semite or a Muslim hater or a racist.

If you don't draw the line at bigots, where the hell do you draw the line?

what it gets down to is you refuse to support Obama if he chooses a VP you don't approve of. That's just swell. As I'm sure you realize the country, in general, is well to the right of DU. Whether it is Sam Nunn or not, Obama will need a VP that is seen as more conservative than himself. That's just politics.

including folks with lots of military cred, who are not bigots. I don't know how to explain it to you further.

Bigots are not acceptable.

I thought John Edwards didn't want the job. :shrug:

Where did they get this information from because the Obama campaign has been tight-lipped about VP discussions. I think the Talking Heads are just talking shit, frankly.

recommended Nunn to the search committee.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/20/1157167.aspx

If you can explain that one to me....

is that Nunn is from Georgia. Obama needs help in GA and could conceivably him deliver the state. Other than that I don't know what their reasoning would be.

No Nunn please...

Although its really impossible to predict who Obama will pick at this point.. surely his campaign has gotten enough negative feedback to keep him from considering this bigot.

I agree, not him!