When you are the 'Change' candidate, the 'outsider', the candidate who promises to fight

the special interests in Washington, you are held to a high standard. The outrage against his possible YES vote on a bill that gives these same special interests/corporations immunity for violating the Constitution is legitimate. I am an ardent Obama supporter, but seriously, this is a very weak move on his part if he supports the bill as is.

I will withhold judgement until he actually votes, but he needs to back up his claim of supporting change in Washington. There are people on this board defending his possible vote as just political maneuvering and him choosing his battles wisely. When we are talking about a CLEAR VIOLATION of the Constitution, there is no room to sway...and he was a Constitutional teacher for christ's sake. He should know better.


Again, he hasn't voted yet...but you can be damned sure I have already sent him a letter and will be watching closely next week. He has my vote regardless of how he votes on the bill, but I can't say I will be very excited or enthusiastic about him if he collapses on this issue, and that enthusiasm translates into volunteering my time and giving my own money to his campaign.

It's time to back up those words and mottos of his with action.

I've been a staunch supporter but I agree. Obama supporters, please contact his campaign and Senate office and firmly but gently make your views known. If you have a donation record, please cite it. Not that they asked but I gave them my name so they could check and see I wasn't some concern troll.

Obama has made himself our servant and we fought hard to get him up there. He will respond.

The change is US right? Well, YES WE CAN!

FISA bill... so, one would think the Dems could wait until after Bush is gone to pass a bill.

veto it?

He needs to support Feingold and make sure that
bill doesn't pass without some serious changes,
including making sure that telecoms can be
prosecuted.

Is he hoping to be the next chimperator or what? I really don't get this move at all.

singles out Obama's vote on an iussue the GOP has been loudly framing erroneously for years.

OBL releases a tape or some other Oct. surprise including possible MIHOP. McCain is elected in a landslide and attacks Iran in Jan. 2009.

Will you want a do over?

Sometimes the talking points that get posted here are really whacked.

terrorists!"

??

How fucking pathetic.

he says he stands for.

I am aware of the political implications, but again, I am also aware of Obama taking stands in the past, such as with the Gas Tax holiday, and being able to frame them to BENEFIT him. He is an amazing communicator and speaker. He can easily defend himself on this issue if he frames it as a constitutional issue.

You can't beat the pukes at their own game and this kind of cowardice is NOT going to help Obama or any other Dem win in November.

part.

I trust the Obama campaign to do what it takes to win this election. He is running for POTUS. He is not just one of 100 Senators.

I don't like FISA- but your comment is bull-

peace~

But, context matters and constituency matters.
If this was a local election with a small constituency, his vote would probably be most responsive to the letters he receives.
However, that is not the case.
He represents the entire Democratic party at this point and the goal of getting elected in November.
His vote on controversial issues will be cast with an eye toward getting elected.

That means he represents the most jingoistic fools in our party. And, there are plenty.
I don't like it myself, but he represents a common narrow goal at this point. I do think we should make room for that and realize that if he is elected, he will represent us under a the more broad reformation goals.

If at that time his goals do not include the kind of reform I hoped for I certainly will be in
holding him accountable mode, but during the election, I think that there are variables that warrant flexibility, for the nasty game of electoral politics. From my reading, I think that he does not like it either.

that rhetoric about "change" and "hope," etc. was meant to inspire anything on his part.

Campaign rhetoric is meant to inspire votes, not the actions of the candidates themselves.

I was never inspired, for some of these very reasons. It's probably worse, to feel hope and inspiration and to see it diminished, than to never have had it at all.

It's his program after all.

I genuinely hope we'll all be pleasantly surprised but the sleeping cynic in me tells me not to hold my breath. Was it with you I had an interesting discussion a few months ago about the UN, corporate interests and the cynicism of politics?

I have chatted about all 3 of those topics.

It's not unreasonable to expect him to "get with" his own program, but it's probably naive.

It is time to demand that Democrats FIGHT for this country.

I spent twelve years in the infantry for this country. It is time for the suits to start fighting too.

If we allow the republicans to run roughshod over the Constitution, it is the same as if General Meade had allowed Lee and the Confederates to run around Pennsylvania without a fight. YOU HAVE TO FIGHT THESE TRAITORS.

security card, even if that means giving up our civil liberties!



:eyes:

And, most particularly for Obama's supporters to be held to task because the hopes of millions are in who he is.

He needs to know how his most ardent supporters feel...because if you don't tell him NOW! ...You might NEVER get ANOTHER CHANCE! NOW is the time!

We trusted to many of our Dems for Change through the decades. We can't just sit back and "wait and hope" and the "hopes of our young folks" are too precious to have them be trashed ...like many of ours were in those Dem Candidates we worked and voted for all those years who always "changed" on us.

Go at him...let him hear your VOICES LOUD AND CLEAR. NO MORE PANDERING AND CAVING. BE WHO YOU ARE...and not the PRODUCT OF PANDERING, COMPROMISE and CORRUPTION of MESSAGE. BE who YOU ARE!

Obama supporters aren't happy about this so we have a chance to reach him. I'd give anything to know what he and Michelle are thinking about this all right now.

(sigh)

Because a Democratic perfectionist candidate cannot reach across the isle and bring independents in. Most Americans don't know what the fourth Amendment is. It's sad but its true. They only know that if Obama votes against it that he isn't strong on protecting from terror. Thats the sad state of politics but it's the way it is. They know sound bites, brand name and image. The media has ingrained that into their heads. Most Americans don't follow politics like we do. Most Americans don't understand history like we do.

We need to give Obama the benefit of the doubt here that he will uphold the Constitution as president. But he has to get elected first. Whats the alternative? McCain? The person who blames the ACLU for holding up the passage of this bill and who has said this bill isnt strong enough? Obama was obviously going to anger folks here by going to the middle but he has to. Thats how you get elected in America.