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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:24 PM Original message |
Ideological purity will get us nowhere. |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:26 PM Response to Original message |
1. This has little to do with purity. |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:27 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Then what does it have to do with, pray tell? |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:29 PM Response to Reply #2 |
6. It has more to do with short-term electioneering than fundamental change. |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:32 PM Response to Reply #6 |
11. Of course it's short-term electioneering. |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:33 PM Response to Reply #11 |
15. That's how you get short-sighted, conventional politicians. |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:35 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. What can we do otherwise? This is what our country has turned politics into. |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:39 PM Response to Reply #18 |
23. Actually, strong articulate leadership against this claptrap is what people want. |
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Starbucks Anarchist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:48 PM Response to Reply #23 |
71. If that was true, Kucinich would be the nominee. |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 08:06 PM Response to Reply #71 |
78. Game. Set. Match. Thank you. |
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thoughtcrime1984 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 10:13 PM Response to Reply #78 |
99. Yep, and I agree with you 100%. This thread has been KnRd. |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 10:35 PM Response to Reply #71 |
101. He may well have been had he raised $250,000,000.00 |
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apocalypsehow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 10:16 PM Response to Reply #23 |
100. "Strong articulate leadership" would have sure been welcome when it came to the IWR back in 2002... |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 10:37 PM Response to Reply #100 |
102. Since it's 2008 and Obama is the nominee I say it's irrelevant. |
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apocalypsehow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 10:38 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. Well, for once we agree. n/t. |
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FourPieRun (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:26 PM Response to Reply #6 |
90. if he gets elected, isn't he going to have to think about *re-election?* uh huh, that's the way it |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 10:38 PM Response to Reply #90 |
104. Then we may not see the nonpragmatic positions until 2013. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:27 PM Response to Original message |
3. It's 'We, the People..." last I checked! |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:29 PM Response to Reply #3 |
5. The time for that is when Obama is in the white house. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:41 PM Response to Reply #5 |
27. and the Progressives and Independents. It's NOT in the 'bag' yet. He should take notice. n/t |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:27 PM Response to Original message |
4. The bill will still pass. |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:30 PM Response to Reply #4 |
8. Exactly. To act like the sky is falling over this is counterproductive. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:42 PM Response to Reply #4 |
29. Is that all they told you to post tonight? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:03 PM Response to Reply #29 |
43. Deleted message |
Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:41 PM Response to Reply #29 |
66. Your post is rude and unproductive |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:38 PM Response to Reply #66 |
91. Trust me... she's posted the exact same words all over DU today. n/t |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 11:06 PM Response to Reply #91 |
106. It's still not okay to imply that someone is making her post it. |
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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 10:52 AM Response to Reply #91 |
119. I read all of Frenchie's posts and |
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Terry_M (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:30 PM Response to Original message |
7. Wiping out 4th amendment =/= just purity. |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:31 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. I didn't say that we shouldn't be disappointed over this... |
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az chela (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:33 PM Response to Reply #9 |
16. AND MCSAME WINS |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:49 PM Response to Reply #9 |
35. No but it's got mold on it and you are saying it's fine dining!!! |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:31 PM Response to Original message |
10. Glenn Greenwald has your number. |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:34 PM Response to Reply #10 |
17. Fuck that. Did I not say I was disappointed? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:53 PM Response to Reply #17 |
40. You sound like you are putting those of us who question...on a guilt trip |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:32 PM Response to Original message |
12. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:33 PM Response to Reply #12 |
14. Deleted message |
crankychatter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:38 PM Response to Reply #12 |
21. you bring up Wright, Birth Certificate, NAFTA and FISA in ONE FUCKING BREATH? |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:39 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. looks like there were still some dead-enders lurking under their rocks. |
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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:33 PM Response to Reply #12 |
63. You're promoting smears on Obama and this is against |
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pinto (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 12:49 AM Response to Reply #12 |
108. more info here: |
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az chela (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:32 PM Response to Original message |
13. Give Barack credit for knowing what he is doing. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:42 PM Response to Reply #13 |
67. When did DU coalesce around him? I didn't see that happening at all. |
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MoonRiver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:36 PM Response to Original message |
19. You mean, he's gotta make sure his powder is dry? |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:37 PM Response to Reply #19 |
20. Then what, exactly, is he supposed to do? |
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MoonRiver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:39 PM Response to Reply #20 |
25. Stand up for what is in the best interests of this country? |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:42 PM Response to Reply #25 |
30. Win the battle, lose the war. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:44 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. Lose the voters. n/t |
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MoonRiver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:51 PM Response to Reply #30 |
37. Not necessarily. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:35 PM Response to Reply #37 |
64. Well said! |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 08:08 PM Response to Reply #64 |
80. Allow me... |
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FourPieRun (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 04:41 AM Response to Reply #19 |
109. heh. nt |
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Bluerthanblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:39 PM Response to Original message |
24. simple unadulterated truth- |
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crankychatter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:40 PM Response to Original message |
26. he's not progressive enough, he's too liberal, he's too black, he's not black enough |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:45 PM Response to Reply #26 |
32. How do old people 'fuck'? Tell us all !!! |
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crankychatter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:03 PM Response to Reply #32 |
44. with excessive care - use your imagination OR |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:27 PM Response to Reply #44 |
59. Oh, I thought you knew all about 'old people' and how they think. I mean, 'old people' annoy us! |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:37 PM Response to Reply #59 |
65. Deleted sub-thread |
Autumn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:28 PM Response to Reply #26 |
61. Yeah thats what you said |
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crankychatter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:47 PM Response to Reply #61 |
69. ya'all repeat this crap ad nauseum with insufficient information and no clarity |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:49 PM Response to Reply #69 |
72. Ya'all are so old and yesterday. |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:55 PM Response to Reply #69 |
75. You can believe that if you want to. |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:41 PM Response to Original message |
28. He won't "WIN" unless he stands up to the CRIMINALS. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:46 PM Response to Reply #28 |
34. We have a WINNER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Maven (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:51 PM Response to Reply #28 |
38. ... |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:00 PM Response to Reply #28 |
41. The fact that this was put before Congress now...this was a TRAP laid for him... |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:01 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. A "trap" set by our OWN HOUSE? |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:05 PM Original message |
It's a shame that Obama would have to be the one to do this... |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:09 PM Response to Original message |
48. He constantly surprises me with his abilities... |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:13 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. Yeah, but it's just another reason why i'm so disappointed in Reid/Pelosi... |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:25 PM Response to Reply #51 |
57. Yup, I used to defend Pelosi around here... |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:32 PM Response to Original message |
62. I AGREE! I do NOT want a President that has to FIGHT for what is RIGHT! |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 08:58 PM Response to Reply #62 |
84. Oh give me a fucking break. You're starting to get tedious. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:09 PM Response to Reply #84 |
86. You're getting tedious, as well... I agree Reid/Pelosi could manage it better |
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elocs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:46 PM Response to Original message |
33. Pragmatism is not a quality that I would associate with the Democratic Party. |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:50 PM Response to Reply #33 |
36. Republicans didn't win by going to the "center". |
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elocs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:11 PM Response to Reply #36 |
50. Unless the Democrats win the election there will be no "our time". |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:14 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. We WON'T WIN unless we fight them HEAD ON. |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 06:52 PM Response to Original message |
39. And as long as you keep accepting this bullshit just in order 'to win'... |
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skooooo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:05 PM Response to Reply #39 |
45. WInning matters. |
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elocs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:23 PM Response to Reply #45 |
55. Yep! Republicans understand that the point of elections is to win them. |
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skooooo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:20 PM Response to Reply #55 |
87. I think you're right... |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 06:33 PM Response to Reply #45 |
120. Even if you have to sell out all you belief in and stand for? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:49 PM Response to Reply #39 |
73. Deleted message |
PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:56 PM Response to Reply #73 |
76. Luckily YOU won't be "recruiting" anyone with your trademark "wit"! n/t |
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On the Road (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:08 PM Response to Original message |
46. While I Agree It's Not Worth Abandoning the Candidate |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:09 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. I agree that he should vote 'Nay,' if he can't get retro immunity removed. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:42 PM Response to Reply #47 |
93. WOOT! --- A break through!!! |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 11:07 PM Response to Reply #93 |
107. We'll see how he actually votes. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:09 PM Response to Original message |
49. If we don't win by going "our way" what have we won? |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:14 PM Response to Reply #49 |
53. If we LOSE by going "our way," what have we won? |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:16 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. The only chance we have to WIN... |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:24 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. let's see what obama actually DOES... |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:28 PM Response to Reply #56 |
60. Of course. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:27 PM Response to Reply #53 |
58. Therein lies the rub. |
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Raine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:46 PM Response to Original message |
68. Agreed |
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GreenPartyVoter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:48 PM Response to Original message |
70. Nothing like keeping your powder dry for.... ever |
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crankychatter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:50 PM Response to Reply #70 |
74. are you recruiting? nt |
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GreenPartyVoter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 07:59 PM Response to Reply #74 |
77. Not allowed to do that here |
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Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 08:07 PM Response to Original message |
79. I hate the term "ideological purity" |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 08:45 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. Another Awesome post !!! |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 08:57 PM Response to Reply #79 |
83. Did I not say 'I can understand why people are disappointed'? |
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Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:25 PM Response to Reply #83 |
89. No, I understand what you are saying and I was not trying to say that you personally were a purist |
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onetwo (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 05:54 AM Response to Reply #79 |
112. Wrong. You're an "ideological purist" because you want your guy to take a position on principle... |
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Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 08:49 AM Response to Reply #112 |
114. Principle is not a valid or practical reason? Defending the Constitution is not valid or practical? |
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onetwo (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 09:03 AM Response to Reply #114 |
116. You're changing my words. It's "valid" but the "practical" reasons are pretty insignificant. |
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Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 09:24 AM Response to Reply #116 |
117. I don't want Obama to be an overseer of an unconstitutinal program. |
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AZBlue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 08:51 PM Response to Original message |
82. I'm disgusted by it. It's literally making me nauseous. |
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nsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:01 PM Response to Original message |
85. Right on. My thoughts exactly. K & R. (nt) |
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FourPieRun (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:23 PM Response to Original message |
88. maybe, but 'ideological purity' was obama's selling point. if he doesn't have that, what does he ha |
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skooooo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:40 PM Response to Reply #88 |
92. welcome to DU! |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:54 PM Response to Reply #92 |
95. Maybe not. I agree with him! If Obama compromises his principles.... what DO we have? |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:59 PM Response to Reply #88 |
97. Welcome to DU, FourPieRun ! |
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FourPieRun (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 04:45 AM Response to Reply #88 |
110. thanks for the welcome. :-) |
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Imagevision (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:45 PM Response to Original message |
94. People ready to turn on Obama over this FISA issue is disturbing... |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 10:01 PM Response to Reply #94 |
98. Obama abandoning the Constitution & 4th Amendment is much more disturbing, imho. |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 11:05 PM Response to Reply #98 |
105. HE HASN'T EVEN VOTED ON THE DAMN THING YET. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-21-08 09:57 PM Response to Original message |
96. "against enemies both foreign and domestic" |
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old mark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 05:41 AM Response to Original message |
111. Lets first win the fucking election |
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McCamy Taylor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 06:37 AM Response to Original message |
113. He is a big boy. He can do what he has to. Doesn't mean I have to like it. |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 08:51 AM Response to Original message |
115. Exactly. The average American voter does not understand |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-22-08 09:53 AM Response to Original message |
118. I want to WIN, too. |
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