Clark was wrong, McCain is NOT untested

The test was when he had to vote to take this country to war and he FAILED MISERABLY. Sorry but Clark's whole argument was weak AND allowed Bob Scheiffer to say that Obama hasn’t had those experiences either. If his argument was meant to help Obama, it didn't.

Plus, he should NEVER have brought McCain's being shot down and a prisoner of war up. All he had to say was military service doesn't mean that you will make a good commander-in-chief and President.

Put Clark on the sidelines and get Webb out their to address this issue.

Because Clark was well prepared for the questions that came back at him from that assertion about McCain. And then Clark said that Obama has the superior judgment, and that's what he's running on.

McCain casting one vote as one senator is not leadership either.

focus. I was a BIG Clark supporter in 04 but I still think he did a terrible job. An argument is STUPID when it allows the interviewer to say... but your candidate doesn't have that experience either. Clark is NOT a good surrogate B/C he is too much of a Clinton supporter. He will NOT make the best argument for Obama b/c it would hurt the Clintons.

Plus, introducing the "prisoner of war" comment was STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, STUPID.

Team Obama, get Webb out there. Clark leaves me wondering, "who is he really trying to help?"

Did you see Webb's comments on offshore drilling?

I thought Clark did a fine job making the argument. The fact is that neither candidate has the experience, but McCain is running as if he does have experience. And the media is running with it, as witnessed by Bob Schieffer's defense for John McCain. With two wars running it is important to level the playing field here. In 2004 part of Kerry's problem is that the idiot Bush was given a pass because "you can't change horses midstream." Now McCain is being given a pass because he happened to be a POW that was shot down. Like Clark said, being shot down does not give you national security experience!

JUDGMENT. You don't make an argument where they can point to your guy and say wait a minute, what experience does he have? In planning an argument you should ALWAYS look for how your opponent can counter. The focus should have been on JUDGMENT!

I'm not talking about offshore drilling. I'm talking about how military experience does not equal having the judgment to be a good commander-in-chief or President. Webb has the ability to make this argument.

Clark's first comments of the interview. This is the START of the interview:

CLARK: Well, I think Bar- I think Joe has it exactly backwards here. I think being President is, is about having good judgment. It's about the ability to communicate. As one of the great Presidential historians Richard Newsted said, "The greatest power of the Presidency is the power to persuade." And what Barack Obama brings is incredible communication skills, proven judgment.

Sigh. :eyes:

Clark answered.



http://securingamerica.com/node/2993

there are thousands of Americans that have faithfully served their country in the military and we value and honor their service. However, you can be an EXCELLENT SOLDIER while not being a great candidate for President or Commander-in-Chief. JUDGMENT is the MOST IMPORTANT qualification for a CIC and President. Obama displayed that judgment..... On the other hand, McCain displayed a COMPLETE LACK OF GOOD JUDGMENT when he voted for..... Oh wait a minute... Clark supported a candidate who did the exact same thing.

Again, get Webb out their to address this issue.

And that's the media's standard feeling about McCain. McCain is great and he's very experienced because he fought in a war and sat in the Hanoi Hilton. That's total bullshit, and only somebody like Wes Clark can take that sort of bullshit on. Then we have people like you who play right along with the Joe Scarboroughs of the world and then start second guessing because Clark is telling it like it is.

You need to watch the entire interview I guess. The "clip" you saw must not have informed you of Clark's comments.

arguing experience. Let me see...would you make an argument for someone when the interviewer can turn right around and say ...hey wait a minute..... your candidate doesn't have that experience either. Forget, the interviewer, the VIEWER watching it would be wondering the same thing.

WesDem provided you with a link.

The cheetos reference is in honor of Joe Scarborough's stupid jokes of course. :rofl:

Anyway, Clark frequently makes this point and it always goes a little something like this:

Interviewer: Did you seriously say that McCain is "untested and untried"?
Clark: Yes.
Interviewer: But McCain is the biggest war hero since sliced bread?
Clark: Yes, he is untested and untried when it comes to setting military policy and making those types of big decisions. I honor and respect his service as a POW, but personal integrity and sacrifice for one's country is not the same as being qualified in the arena of military strategy.
Interviewer: But can't I say the same thing about Obama?
*Interviewer pats self on back for quick wit and thinking.*
*Clark smiles inside because he just led the interviewer into a checkmate argument.*
Clark: But Obama isn't running on his military experience, he's running on judgment. Obama has shown superior judgment to McCain when the Bush-McCain alliance led us into this Iraqi quagmire.
*Awkward pause for interviewer as he/she tries to change the subject.*

This is the best defense we can put out there against Bush's "unplanned" October surprise.

Contrary to what the talking heads want you to believe, he DIDN'T bring it up. He repeated the EXACT words of the interviewer. The interviewer posed the hypothetical that McCain's POW service makes him qualified on national security issues. You have to be an idiot to actually believe that talking point.

The argument is sound too. McCain's only shot at winning this election is for an October surprise (thank you Dumbya!) and to WRONGLY convince the American people that he is supremely qualified as a military strategist. Clark is making the LEGITIMATE point that McCain is misleading the American people about his qualifications as a military strategist. Military service does not equal good military strategy. Clark could kick McCain's butt up and down the block all day long on war planning strategy.

in general military service terms.

It's symptomatic of brain-sharing with the military pundits. All this faux outrage is pathetic. Sorry, but a brief check on Clark's bio shows that he is a war hero too you know.

http://www.clark04.com/about/

"As a 25-year old Army captain in Vietnam, commanding a mechanized infantry company, Clark was on patrol in the jungle, looking for Viet Cong, when he was shot four times. Commanding his troops despite his wounds, he gave a series of orders, and his soldiers quickly overran the enemy positions. His bravery in battle earned him a Silver Star.

Wes returned to the United States to recover from his wounds. One week into his stay at Valley Forge Hospital -- after he was up and out of his wheelchair - his wife Gert got permission to bring him home for a short visit to meet a four-month old boy named Wes - who had been born when his dad was in Vietnam."

I'm not so blinded by that support to not see that his interview was terrible and did NOT help Obama.

Clark nows that the POW issue is a touchy issue so I think he should have known not to touch this issue with a ten foot pole. He could have easily couched his response in general military terms.

I'm really tired of the stupid kool-aid references just because someone doesn't agree with an opinion.

:rofl:

As Obama said, if they bring a knife, we're bringing a gun. :patriot: This 'controversy' is just a media-manufactured gaffe.

McCain is the one who started using his POW experience as a part of his qualifications for President, it's now fair game.

Besides, maybe everyone needs to quit tap dancing around the full story on McCain's time as a POW. After all he was put under stress and pressure, which resulted in him signing documents and making statements for the North Vietnamese.

Now, we all can see from before and after photos of recent presidents the great mental stress that they have to deal with every day, shouldn't it be pointed out that if McCain broke once he can break again.

Ther only difference is that he'll be near that big red shniy button that will send all of us to hell!!!!

General Clark did it right, and I don't think Webb could do the job that's needed, and I'm one of his constituents.

experience in general.

To get bogged down into the POW issue is stupid.

Sorry, but I think Clark supporters are blinded by their support for Clark. I think he did a terrible job and certainly did not help Obama.

Ignoring POW was not going to end the conversation. I'm surprised you say you are/were a Clark supporter because one of the things I like most about Clark is that he tells it like it is, yet you seemed to be miffed with that.

Even before this manufactured 'gaffe' Clark was the best fit for the V.P. spot. Someone who can help the Dems go toe-to-toe with the Republicans and their assumed monopoly on patriotism and love of the military. Clark even said during the interview that he respected McCain's service. Even said that he along with millions of other servicemen looked up to him because of it. Of course the poster conveniently left out that part. Just wanted to parse and disect one quote.

In fact, I donated quite a bit to Clark. Plus, I created and handed out Clark campaign fliers with my son. I was in a local Clark group and even met one of the soldiers who served under him when he was the the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO.

Just because I am not BLINDED by support of Clark does not mean that I was not a BIG Clark supporter.

Love Clark, don't think he's best for VP. He will be great in an Obama administration though.

Just said that POW experience is a measure of personal sacrifice, not military strategery.

On touring a Baghdad market in 2007:

"The week before, trying to build support for the surge, he said this on television: "General Petraeus goes out there almost every day in an unarmed Humvee."

And he said this on the radio: "There are neighborhoods in Baghdad where you and I could walk through those neighborhoods today."
...
"Senator McCain, I just read in the Internet that you said there are areas in Baghdad that you can walk around freely," a reporter asked.

"Yeah, I just came from one," McCain replied.

But backing up that stroll through the market were ten armored Humvees, 100 soldiers with rifles, and two Apache attack helicopters circling overhead."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/04/60minutes/main2648779.shtml

And then, ONE DAY AFTER:

"A merchant who called himself Abu Samer offered a particularly stinging analysis of the situation. "He is just using this visit for publicity. He is just using it for himself ... He will win in America, and we will have nothing." He added that McCain's visit would only make his own job more dangerous, since "every time the government announces something - that the electricity is good or the water supply is good - the insurgents come to attack it immediately."

The U.S. embassy in Baghdad evidently shared the merchants' fears, since an embassy official refused to give out the name of the market to reporters. But as Abu Samer explained to the New York Times, this foresight did the merchants no good, since they had no choice but to keep showing up for work.

The day after McCain's visit, when Shorja market was no longer ringed by increased security and circled by attack helicopters, Abu Samer's predictions were borne out. Insurgents bound 21 Shorja market workers and shot them to death north of Baghdad. And it is this chain of events, part farce, part tragedy, that McCain dismissed yesterday as "just life."

Misspeaking and even lying may be "just life." But a lie that causes 21 deaths - that's just the opposite."

http://media.www.browndailyherald.com/media/storage/paper472/news/2007/04/09/Opinions/Katy-Crane.07.Mccain.More.Than.Misspeaks.About.Iraq-2829722.shtml

THIS is how good John McLame's "security credentials" are.

Irresponsible Fuckwad.

win. The American People deserve to hear the truth .

McCain already failed the test for Commander-in-Chief and the American People need to be reminded of that fact.
If we have another terrorist attack, I can only imagine which country he would want to attack. But my money is on it not being a country that had anything to do with the attack.

By hammering McCain on judgment, another terrorist attack WILL NOT help him. In fact, if we weren't wasting billions in Iraq MAYBE we would actually be able to focus on making this country secure.

tv advertising has to stick and this own't right now.

Remember (the media) aren't called his "base" for nothing.

Thank you, Wes Clark!

CNN is always scared of this label. Morning Joe crew are scared of the label but Olbermann takes it on full guns blazing. Fox News thinks they own the copyright to patriotism. Nothing funnier than the notion of "Hannity's America". :rofl:

should have steered his answer away from that issue. What's wrong with "Well Bob, I've known a lot of good men and women who have served in the military and who have provided exemplary service to this country. However, being a good soldier doesn't mean that you will necessarily be a great commander-in-chief or President. The number of one requirement for a commander in chief is judgment and I think Senator Obama clearly demonstrated his good judgment when he spoke out against us going to war with Iraq. He said that it would........ and it has. So I honor McCain's service but I do not think that he has the judgment necessary to make a good commander-in-chief and President."

it would be good for McCain. Both comments were made for political effect. The Obama campaign wanted that information out there. Simply being a POW does not make one qualified for President, just in case anyone is confused. They don't plan on making it an issue but they have shot across the bow of the McCain campaign. Don't think you are going to ride that horse thru the campaign without being called on it. It served its purpose.