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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:35 PM
Original message
AP: "Obama disowns critique of McCain's military record"
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 04:40 PM by Sparkly

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer 29 minutes ago

HARRISBURG, Pa. - Democrat Barack Obama rejected a retired general's suggestion that Republican John McCain's military experience didn't necessarily qualify him to be president, as GOP surrogates lined up to label the remarks indecent and disrespectful.

(snip)

... Obama told an audience in Independence, Mo., that McCain had "endured physical torment in service to our country" and "no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides."

(snip)

"In the matters of national security policy making, it's a matter of understanding risk," Clark said "It's a matter of gauging your opponents, and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces, as a prisoner of war.

"He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee and he has traveled all over the world, but he hasn't held executive responsibility," Clark said. "That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded — that wasn't a wartime squadron."

Clark has said as much before, but drew little notice. CBS moderator Bob Schieffer cited Clark's earlier remarks and noted that Obama hadn't had those experiences either nor had he ridden in a fighter plane and been shot down. "Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark replied.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080630/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_clark

Read the rest for some of the lovely comments by Republicans that NO DEMOCRATS seem to want to stand up to. :mad:

Edit: General Clark gave the Obama campaign a GIFT tied up with a ribbon -- a silver bullet, with a four-star endorsement he put himself on the line for. And the Obama campaign, seems to me, trembled in fear saying, "Omigod, this thing might go off!!" and threw it away. For good measure, they threw General Clark away long with it.

"Sen. Obama honors and respects Sen. McCain's service, and of course he rejects yesterday's statement by Gen. Clark."

There are a million responses the campaign could have had. This is the worst one I could imagine.
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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. I disagree.
I think its better for Obama to stay away from this issue and leave it to surrogates or independent groups. That way McCain has to respond to General Clark and other veterans and won't be able to directly attack Obama on his lack of military experience.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. As I said, there are countless ways Obama could "stay away from this issue"
and still not take it off the table; still use it; still validate General Clark's authority to make this point. We've seen campaigns do that time and time again -- it's not that difficult.

This was much more than that -- this was backing down from the RNC's distortions and ceding ground, unnecessarily.
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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. My point is that Obama has to take this "off the table"
as far as his own campaign is concerned. If he tries to use McCain's military record as a political issue in any way, it will be a losing argument. Just look at how the press reacted today. This is not about backing down, this is a question of what is the most effective strategy. Sometimes keeping the candidate "above the fray" is the best tactic.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. There are many shades of nuance between Obama outright agreeing with everything Clark said and
Obama outright rejecting everything Clark said.

Politicians and their teams KNOW how to paint those shades. Or they should.
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Yotun Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. Yeah leave it to his surrogates, to whom the right will respond, 'even Obama disagrees with you'
Really smart, yeah... get off the rose tinted glasses, Obama screwed up and chickened out of attacking McCain on the mostr valid point he should have- that being a POW gives you no skill whatsoever on being the president and commander in chief.
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Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Yes, just stay away from it, but do it in a creative way. They're not using their heads.
The typical poliitician's answer backing down: "Of course we reject" "we honor and respect".

No thinking outside the box from Bill Burton, that's for sure.
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Growler Donating Member (896 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I totally agree n/t
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yep, Obama is falling under the spell of the DLC meme to "move to the center"
which really means "move to the right".

Glad I won't be donating to Obama's campaign anymore. He can beg from those elusive "centrist" voters for $.
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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Its a question of tactics not policy or ideology.
How is this a move to the center or the right?
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Obama didn't stand up for Clark who was the one, not McCain, being slandered
It was the multi-million dollar pundits who distorted Wes Clark's critique of McCain. If Obama can't or won't defend his surrogates when they are unfairly attacked, he's not going to defend the Truth when it is under assault by the fascists in the Right Wing.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I expected that.
I expected that as a tactic to win.

I didn't expect backing down from a tactic to win, giving McCain his War Hero immunity from criticism as some military expert.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. call them. Let your voice be heard...as far as what your opinion is!
Associated Press -- Headquarters

Website: www.ap.org
Phone: (212) 621-1500
Fax: (212) 621-7520
Address: 50 Rockefeller Plz New York, NY 10020

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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. We're a day past the AP's distortions now.
We're on to Obama's campaign's response to those distortions.
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Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. What response do you think Obama should have had?
Clark showed his political naivete when he spoke on Face the Nation.

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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Given the timing, this was probably orchestrated to segue right into Obama's speech today
That probably worked better for them than they could've imagined.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Well, when the GOP attack machine questioned Kerry's war record
and patriotism, to a degree that far surpassed anything Wes Clark said, the Bush tactic was to not comment on it. Bush let the swift boat veterans for ?truth? do the dirty work while he publicly appeared completely "disconnected" from their dirt campaign. Of course the media helped that along as well by never discussing any link between the 527 group and Bush or Rove or any of the Bush campaign staff.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. "Political naivete" my ass.
He gave them a gift, and they squandered it.

I've replied elsewhere with suggestions for how the Obama campaign could have responded. There are all SORTS of shades between total agreement with all and total rejection of all.
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Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. "He gave them a gift" my ass.
Nothing with this much negativity is a gift to a presidential candidate.
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. but where is the majority of that negativity coming from????
from the Republicans who felt it was fine to attack Kerry in 2004...and CLARK SAID NOTHING WRONG...to put it bluntly...NOTHING..!!What he did speak was the unvarnished TRUTH!!wb
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Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Obama should make no comment on this. Not even address it.
It wasn't his statement, yet he feels forced to yet again try to put out a small fire.

The campaign's response was just terrible. "Of course he rejects yesterday's statement." Give me a break. If its so cut and dry, and Obama is above these kinds of things, why even explicitly state this?
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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. The McCain campaign was slamming Obama
for "allowing" his adviser, Clark, to make this statement. Thats why they responded.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. And Obama answered it in the worse way possible
Obama gave credence to the McCain and Republican lies about what Wes Clark said about McCain.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. EXACTLY
Thank you.
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
41. EXACTLY..
it would have been better if he'd played dumb, and said he hadn't heard what was said, rather than respond like they did...I felt as though he threw Clark under the bus, and I didn't like it one little bit...wb
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Put out a FIRE? Who made it a fire??
The RNC!!!

So every time the RNC twists something out of context to benefit their candidate, the Obama campaign HAS to back down from it? WHY??
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. WAIT! WAIT! You guys REALIZE how much press Clarkes TRUE statement is getting? Obama is using them..
...and I'm more convinced now than ever.

Obama free message play

1. - Have expendable surrogate say something truthful but controversial
2. - Wait till MsM picks up on Obama surrogates TRUTHFUL and THOUGHT provoking remarks and they'll play their faux outrage card pas 8 news cycles
3. - Obama denounces expendable surrogate making the denouncement another 8 cycle news item.

What Clark said is true and news it's getting in freeperLund and the MsM is free!!!

Anyone else seeing what I see?

Thx


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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. You're deluding yourself
The MSM is intentionally distorting what Clark said and Obama is buying into the Right wing meme about Clark's words.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I agree with you...free air time to pull down McCain
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. On the NBC news, they just showed one sentence of Clark's speech,
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 06:17 PM by notmyprez
which of course distorted what he said. Then they showed McCain's and Obama's commenting negatively on what Clark said. THEN, they had some news 'analyst' talk about how much that hurt Obama's campaign. I was hollering at the TV, because I saw Clark's speech and know what he said and how he said it. Unfortunately, those who watched that news broadcast will totally get the wrong message, as I'm sure the MSM intended.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Not buying.
1. General Clark is NOT an "expendable surrogate" in the Democratic party. Far, far from it.
2. MSM has distorted surrogate's words in the worst way possible; the "truthful" and "thought-provoking" isn't getting through, and instead of twisting it back and striking with it, the Obama camp retreated and surrendered.
3. Obama denounced both surrogate AND point -- which gave credibility to the RNC's claims and their fake cloak of immunity from criticism. All this in ONE "news cycle."

What a waste.

What Clark SAID and MEANT is LOST in all this.

A complete waste, and a shame.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. You whiners should check for duplicates before you post the same faux rage ad nauseum
be a good DU citizen
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. that would be the correct response from someone with no military experience
This is brutal politics...the kind of politics we begged for in 2004. Clark knew exactly what he was saying when he said it, he knew what the response would be, and he knew that Obama and his campaign would not be able to support it. My guess is that Obama's campaign knew what Clark was going to say ahead of time too and I bet their response was ready by the time he said it.

The only people that can say this sort of stuff against McCain are other Veterans. Now Clark is getting the press this deserves, the media is whipped into a ratings frenzy, and McCain's camp is on the defensive after having a ridiculously easy time for the past several months.

Someone explain to me what the problem is exactly.



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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. I agree completely
Obama issued a one sentence disclaimer and a somewhat tepid one at that. I see this as a coordinated affort to bring into question McCain's endless experience.

McCain's record is fair game because that is what he is running on. He touts these experiences in his ads. Clark's remarks are a way to raise doubts. Obama can't talk about it directly. Clark can.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. Wrong.
Obama's campaign ALSO knew exactly what Clark had been saying, and would continue to say.

This is not black/white "don't support it" and "do support it." There are a multitude of ways to USE this without outright "rejecting it." This was an opportunity for any number of plays -- and they squandered it. They wimped out.

I agree -- only veterans can say this. So a response includes respect for General Clark as a veteran, validation of his own perspective and voice, and THEN a CAREFUL statement from there.

McCain is NOT on the defensive. What Clark actually said and meant isn't being HEARD. What's heard is what Obama's campaign is pretending they heard: an attack on McCain's military record.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. so the week of 4th of July, what could Obama possibly say?
Any statement of support, no matter how minor or nuanced, would have validated McCain's assertion that Obama sent Clark out to say this on Obama's behalf.

After watching Clark tonight on Abrams, I believe more than ever that Clark and Obama played this the way they wanted to. I also see McCain on the defensive when he suddenly becomes friendly with the swiftboaters he spoke out against in 2004. I honestly don't think he expected to be questioned on his service of all things and for a man with a known temper, I think this could get real fun real fast.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. I don't think that Clark "devalued" McCain's service as it related
to being captured and imprisoned. His point was that such an experience was irrelevant to Presidential skills. And I don't think that Obama's statement directly distanced him from Clark's statement.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. How did Obama's response not distance himself from what Clark said? nt
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Well, in the first place, I thought Obama's remark was very crafty.
As I recall, he said that no one should devalue (or was it minimize) the war record of any one.

It seemed to me that while he would be opposed to any remark that insulted McCain's war record, he did not specifically state that Clark's comment did that.

If Obama had wanted to "nail" Clark, he would have specifically stated something like "Gen.Clark's
comment about McCain's war record was wrong and I don't condone such statements."

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
31. NOBODY WAS DEVALUING CAPTAIN COMBOVER'S SERVICE
Can we at least START with some fucking honesty about what got said????????

Clark said, essentially, that McCain's service, per se, does not qualify him for president.

He could be Audie Fucking Murphy. He is NOT, by dint of his career, qualified to be president.

Clark was not 'devaluing' the service.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. Does Obama even know what Clark said?
I think he may have only heard the Faux Noise/Wingnut pure bullshit about it.

What Clark said had absolutely nothing to do with McCain's patriotism. Nothing.
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faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. That's what I'd like to know too. Sure as hell doesn't seem so.
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