I give the fuck UP. The Obama haters have won for today.

Keep dreaming of Kucinich at night while the McCain takes away every goddamned right you ever thought you had, vetoes every blessed bill the dems pass after January. Because who the hell BELIEVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that we'll have a veto-proof majority in the Senate? Nobody with half a brain thinks they can count on that.

So you guys just keep on pissing and moaning about our candidate, threatening to withold your vote becuase you live in some "red state." Or hell, just go all the way and vote for that crazy-ass Nader. As a matter of fact, why stop there? You KNOW that is the same thing as voting for the republican, so why don't you just go ahead and vote McCain while you're at it?

The REST of us ARE doing the leg work, making the phone calls, registering new voters for the democratic party. We're doing the work YOU should be doing but you cannot even manage to say ONE GOOD THING about the nominee. Not ONE.

And on occasion, we supporters come in here to say something GOOD about Obama and to catch up on some news, without having to listen to the idiot MSM. And surprise, surprise! The RW talking points are right fucking HERE, too.

I am very happy to note that a couple of very nice posters today have said something good about him, too. These are posters who have some differences with him on the issues BUT they are also keeping their eyes on the prize. AND they are even volunteering for the campaign, one in a RED STATE no less. They know that EVERY vote matters. They know that we MUST have a dem in the White House. They care about the issues and STILL support the candidate.

One more thing: Calling people fucking Koolaid drinkers has GOT to stop. Let me tell you this, we are REALISTIC about politics. We are REALISTIC about the compromises our candidates HAVE to make until they get in office. Hell, we're realistic about the compromises they have to make while they're IN office. That ain't drinking Koolaid, my friends. Drinking the Koolaid is when you think ANY candidate will do EVERYTHING you want him to. So get fucking real.

And if Feingold says Obama and Congress can fix FISA after he's elected, I tend to believe him. Funny how some of you who were quoting him constantly BEFORE the vote NOW want to ignore THAT statement. But hey, don't let ME get in the way of your selective outrage, 'kay?

Edited to say sorry for the rant.

C'mon. You know better than that.

It only encourages them. Make fun of them instead.

kinds of views are going to be presented, ones you like and ones you don't. Ignore the ones that bother you.

Yes I was disappointed with the FISA vote but if that's all that I'm disappointed with, it ain't enough to discourage me from voting this fall. I was sulking but decided this year was too important and Obama knows what he is doing. I will ignore the negative threads and keep on pushing. :hi:

and those that are not RW'ers are of the ilk of Nader people in 2000. Either way, they are of no use to us and only are working to bring down the Democratic nominee by any means possible.

the ones I was refering to in a message I posted here about six weeks ago...
'I wonder how long will it take the Hillary hating Obama supporters to turn on him
like they did fellow Democrat Hillary?'

leave right after the primaries.

true believers now suffering pangs of something or other.

The only really happy ones are "the Obama right or wrong crowd" who now recognize and are reconciled to all manner of imperfect compromise and centrism.

Some of those that warned the purists are surely to be allowed a little "I told you so" smugness so long as they get out there and work for dem victories across the board.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

That means you will focus your energies and attention on your candidate/s of choice, and GOTV, rather than trying, unsuccessfully, to battle dissenters.

A better use of your time, I agree.

Would you like my help keeping this thread kicked, since you won't have much more time to spend on it?

time in the world.

But thank you for your concern.

I hope you consider 2 hours of fighting dissenters to be energizing, and a worthwhile use of your time.

Oh.

I thought you'd given up?

I guess not, lol.

I won't stop dissenting; I never wanted Obama to be the nominee, I'm not happy with the nomination, and I'm blunt, and truthful enough, to say so, and to say why.

That doesn't mean I expect the world to join me. I think dissent is an important ingredient; it keeps the process more honest, more authentic, and healthier.

I don't want to bring the process to a halt.

The platform is adopted at the Convention. I want a platform that will hold him accountable for democratic, and Democratic, principles. I don't want a platform that embraces centrist/right policy.

Between now and the Convention, my job is to make sure that Obama, the delegates, the party leaders, and the rest of the party hear that message.

important. I'm working for the campaign, but I'm also interested in having input from other avenues. I belong to a couple of groups, but I haven't done much for them yet.

for the fight to replace my republican senator, which is possible, and to support the fight to replace my republican congressman, which is doubtful. I mentioned the fight for the senate, peripherally, here at DU yesterday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6474221&mesg_id=6474221

I'm also hoping to attend a local platform meeting; there is one scheduled within driving distance this month.

And I still respect him and will definitely vote for him.

in this forum. Thank you.

This is a Democratic message board ~ NOT a cheerleading blog. The hatred is in YOUR head.

which speak your words on this board.

Denial will kill you just as dead as poison.


silly girl, you aren't fooling anyone.
:hi:
peace~

...gets it wrong is hardly silly ~ and has nothing to do with hatred. WAKE UP!

than you know.

If you think, in all honesty, that your negative comments which are designed to undermine support for the Democratic candidate is a positive kind of "caring about this country"- then, yes you are a silly girl.

I'm an older girl, who has been silly herself many times, so you are not alone. And before I'm gone I'll likely be guilty of being silly many more times. FISA is a BAD law. I know that, you know that- Obama knows that and has said as much. It's a compromise bill. One that I detest, but one that doesn't spell life or death to our rights, or our country.

Electing McCain DOES spell DEATH. Death to innumerable people, some whose faces I know, some I don't even realize exist- but who matter none the less. There is time to deal with FISA and the "Patriot" act- and so many other garbage laws that have crawled into our lives over many years. The time to DEFEAT McCain is NOW.

I'm not expected to live to see another presidential election. My sons would not be able to avoid McCains draft, other than going to jail. The people I know and care about who live on the edges of society are not going to be able to endure the cuts to programs that keep them alive- if McCain is allowed to be selected.

I'm so awake polichick- my head hurts. This has everything to do with reality- people are going to be freezing to death next winter, going without food, shelter, medical care. All kinds of people will be dying at the hands of apathy, greed and hatred.

Sometimes you have to deal with some nasty shit- when you're fighting cancer.
And the heart of our country is riddled with it. If Obama has to expose himself to radiation in order to fight the growth of the tumors, or run a course of chemo- then we'll deal with that as we continue on towards healing .. Would you rather just give it all up? give over? I know there are days when that sounds pretty inviting to me- but it's also pretty damn selfish- and self serving. Do you really think he's doing this for his own personal gain alone? Or that he isn't aware, - doesn't care about the fact that we are a very polarized country?

I believe we want the best for this country and each other.
I believe Barack wants that too, and he is putting his life, his future, his own family on the front lines, and saying "I'll do my best for ALL of us".

I don't believe the same about McCain.- those are the choices.

peace~

I'm very involved on the ground and have been for a long time ~ which isn't the same thing as cheering every time Barack farts. I've also been a Dem activist for 30+ years, and your assumptions are both ignorant and condescending. My children would also be drafted ~ we MUST win ~ but that won't happen if Barack pisses away his credibility and momentum by pandering to the right.

undermining Obama when you post as you did above, and encourage others to as well.-

As for your efforts "on the ground"- I'm glad to hear you walk the walk- I do too, but that doesn't give me the right to work against our candidate, or use Obama as my whipping boy for all the frustrations I have with the way our political system.

I'm sorry that I sound condescending to you. I didn't intend to, and don't believe there is anything to be gained by trying to destroy each other with words- The post of yours that elicited my reply sounded pretty condescending, rude and unnecessary to me, like something my 24yr old or his friends might have said in an attempt to silence a voice they didn't like hearing.- Maybe we'd both do well to think about the way we choose to speak to each other.

I'm sorry that I offended you.

I wish we could focus our energy towards making sure that we don't let McCain be selected as the next resident in the whitehouse.

That is something you and I can actually agree needs to happen, and work together to achieve.

I'm not against people voicing their thoughts- But I am against people using legitimate policy issues as cover for continuing to trash a candidate that they have a personal vendetta against. There has been A LOT of that on here of late.

peace~

...as the place to encourage voters to support our candidate.

and your prerogative.

Unless you are some kind of fraud-I'm talking to one person, am I not?
I'm living in the 'real world' as I type this. And I don't say things differently off-line than I do on. I'm as difficult, obstinate, weird and "blu" in the flesh as I am online. We can't fool ourselves, and who else would really matter?

Life is too short to waste playing silly games.

again- I wish you luck.

:hi:

peace~

But we should be able to talk about the various strategies of the race without being lectured.

Tried to keep people from discussing things they felt were important.

Still, I'm tired of hearing people complain about "Obama haters" or "purists" then they start yet another thread that begs for it!

Our Constitution is in shreds, but we still have free speech... though you'd wonder when you read what alleged Democrats are trying to do here.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

It's almost impossible to talk about anything controversial here these days between the pom-poms and the lectures!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

...wants to talk about something controversial are only projecting. Psych 101.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Worthless debate and hand-wringing does nothing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html

I particularly like this line: "...to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas."

Usually when somebody has an issue with our candidate, it's because the poster is interested in the "exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas" and thinks he may be losing sight of those.

well that' charitable.

These invective filled half wits have been calling us; Nazi's, cowards, idiots, sell outs, Quislings, among other things.

And people wonder why Democrats don't win more elections.

People just don't disagree they impune the motives and charachter of everyone who isn't 100% in agreement with them.

Who would want to elect people like that to political power?


Right now there is only one isssue - winning the general election.

that I thought I should at least tone that part of my rant down.

with full expletives

and then alerted on myself and they took down the entire sub thread

I don't intend on taking any of that s*** anymore.

to let you know, it's really good to see you post this. Because we can ALL agree on at least some things. Kudos to you. :)

is still voting for evil.

Not that I believe Obama is evil, but that seems to be the cast of this kind of argument.

On the other, to be completely practical, failing to vote against the greater of two evils - ultimately resulting in that evil winning election - is essentially voting for that evil.

We do not have the please of a multi-party democracy. Our choices are "black," "gray," or "wasted."

I like(d) Obama. A lot. But now that he is playing to the whole country, including people who will never vote for him, I have to admit that I'm a little disillusioned (in the truest sense of the term). Still, I will happily, almost joyously, vote for him.

Does that make you feel any better?

We have to live in the world we have, not the world we would make of it. Failing to understand this is the root cause of many of these people's misery.

analysis. Because not voting for the "lesser evil" DOES garauntee that the "greater evil" will win. It's as simple as that.

I would say that no candidate is perfect. I would also say that no perfect candidate (in my liberal terms) would ever be elected. So, it's one imperfect man against a completely fucked up man. I'll take the imperfect man. And so will you and that's great.

but it is not a description of democracy and i will not play that game.

Ignore the important issues of the day, if Obama does it must be right!!

Sorry, this Obama supporter doesn't give him a free pass.

and Obama's not going to lose.

Despite all the attempts to make that happen. (veiled and obvious alike)


:grouphug:


peace~

Why not use the DU system to establish a new forum, along the lines of
Obama Support (only). That would at least open one avenue for boosters and leave one for the traditional discussion. :shrug:

If it were, then there would have been millions of posts about FISA on GD. They all seemed to be here, and they all lay the blame at Obama's feet.

But your suggestion just might be a really good one. Thank you.

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=206x10

It's been a frustrating day for everyone.

I'm one of those really upset by the FISA vote, but not just at Obama. He is but a small part of a big Crowd of Dems who I feel let us down AGAIN. Alot of us feel really let down by our own Party.

Obama has my vote, but I've tried really hard to find some reason besides him not being McCain to fight for him like I have for others in the past. He's made that really tough the last few weeks.

I promise to not Bash Obama, never call Obama supporters Kool-aid drinkers (even when an incredibly creepy troll makes me want to) and to remember we are on the same side. We love our country and want to see it fixed.

Editted to add : :hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:

yet you support the candidate. You discuss the issues without bashing. And I welcome hearing your thoughts. I am more in agreement with you than with Obama on FISA. But I understand why he did what he did, too. Not what I would have wished, but then nobody will do everything I want except me. :)

You have never bashed, never trashed and you support the candidate. That's why I love reading your posts.

Thank you for responding to this. It means a lot to me.

People need to scream at the top of their lungs at our Party leaders. This never should have been brought to the floor.

Now we have a big mess and I blame Reid for it.

Either:

A) Obama stands behind the Fisa Bill and doesn't use the excuse that HE will make sure its not abused ( he hasnt won yet, McCain could end up with these unrestricted powers).

OR

B) Obama says He didn't really mean it. That he would change things in January, That he will make sure it isn't abused and that we should just trust him.

And then:

A) The base get pissed at him and he shows that he really isn't all that concerned with our rights. He scores a few points on the right.

B) He comes off looking like a slick car salesman who will say anything to get elected and you never know when he really means what he says.

This NEVER should have gone to the floor for a vote like this.

I think he couldn't vote no because of the GE and the numbskulls who are terrified of their own shadows. I didn't want him to vote yes. He couldn't avoid the vote.

It was just awful all around.

even though I'm on the other side of this issue.

Regardless of my reaction to Obama's vote (don't get me started) - I'm not an Obama hater, and I don't think most of the others are, either.

This is just one of those issues that affect people strongly.

I'm staying away from those threads now - I apparently wasn't able to convince people to my way of thinking, and they weren't able to win me over, either.

Moving on to an Obama WH.

I wish he could have voted the other way. And yes, it is time to move on to an Obama WH. :)

And if Feingold says Obama and Congress can fix FISA after he's elected, I tend to believe him.

I have been saying this in other threads, and it is being ignored.

The bill was going to pass. That is a given. Once President Obama is inaugurated, he can work on "fixing" OR IGNORING it. Because it is there does not mean he has to DO any of it. It is a bill allowing, not mandating.

The trick is that he can't fix it if he ISN'T ELECTED!!!!!!

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!

it becomes a game of "believe what I say, not what I do" I find it disturbing and it only works for people with unquestioning faith in him. He needs to either stand up and say "I back this FISA bill or he never should have voted for it. To waffle now and allude to some "change" "Sometime in the future" just makes him look lie a spineless used car salesman.

hold EVERYONE accountable. And I, for one, WILL. I'm sure you won't give up either. That is what makes democrats so great. He said he wants input and I have given it and so have you. That will not stop when he's in the WH.

I will keep on giving it.

I don't know that he will do anything different once in the WH.

But I will keep on speaking out when I can.

I hope all of you are right, I hope he proves himself when he gets into office. I love my country and want to see us all succeed. I just no longer have that level of trust in politicians.

don't feel guilty if you're a bit more cynical than you were.

For the first time in a long time, I actually do have some hope. It's also tempered with reality, as yours is. And that's a good thing. Because if we didn't acknowledge the reality of politics, we'd be devastated and would just stop trying to make a difference.

I like the guy and will vote for the guy. I've been pretty solid in that.

I am very disappointed in FISA. I will not hide that. If you want to see where unconditional support will get you then you need only look over the fence at the FReeps.

forum is meant for. You discuss the issues. You don't agree with everything Obama does. But you support the candidate. I haven't seen wild posts from you saying you won't vote, etc., etc.

As the rules state, constructive criticism is GOOD. And so are you. :)

I do have a reputation as flying of the handle though at times...

:blush:

:nopity:

WELCOME to the final days of democracy where people are STILL allowed to think for themselves and decide which candidate they're going to support and how hard they're going to work for them.

It's up to Obama to inspire people, not a bunch of supporters trying to whip people into line.

"And if Feingold says Obama and Congress can fix FISA after he's elected, I tend to believe him."

I don't believe it'll be that easy, because what makes you or anyone else think that those Democrats who willingly voted for the new version are even going to change their minds? What will change the minds of those Republicans who voted in favor of it?

Give me something more then what Senator Feingold is saying, I do believe that at least he will try to make the fixes needed but as we saw only 28 Democrats voted against it.

Akaka, Biden, Bingaman, Boxer, Brown, Byrd, Cantwell, Cardin, Clinton, Dodd, Dorgan, Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kerry, Klobuchar, Lautenburg, Leahy, Levin, Menendez, Murray, Reed, Reid, Sanders, Schumer, Stabenow, Tester, Wyden.


What incentive is there for the rest of them to follow Senator Feingold and the other 27 Democrats?

that were are mostly republicans.

They were all in the same boat with Obama. Can't look soft on terrorism. Can't avoid the vote. Can't vote no.

With Obama in office, the next bill doesn't have to be veto-proof. So we will get what we want then. It's up to us to put pressure on our representatives after January.

is the veto proof Senate. Once there is a president who will not veto a bill with some of the necessary (and constitutional) measures, then the other parts can be stripped without losing the whole thing.

As it stands now, any bill not exactly the way the (p)resident wants it would be vetoed and lost. Staring all over would be taking time away from other important business.

But...but...President Obama cannot fix anything if he is not the president.

I know it is not a perfect way to do things. In a perfect world this type of maneuvering wouldn't be necessary. But democracy is not perfect. It is simply better than all other forms of governing.

support the points made in your OP. Very well said. :thumbsup:

how did you ever survive someone trying to "splain" things to you in that thread. I would have blown a gasket.

along with all of the hyperbole, and all of the repetition-

too bad they just can't anchor/thumbtack a post up top, and confine all pissing and/or moaning in there

~edit brought to u by the letter "m"~

Feingold carried the water for Obama brilliantly last night.

They haven't won, Jennifer. And I've got your back.

like some of the PUMAs are here... Up above AND below. Knew they'd show up.

Calling out "PUMA's" who may be trickling back isn't to bright, is it Jennifer?

Seems to me you don't really want people supporting the presumed nominee,

You just want attention with all your fauz rage.

I'd almost read freerepublic, they point out mccain's faults over there a lot more than anyone over here.

don't get me wrong, when someone does post good anti-mccain information here, I appreciate it times 1000, I'm bookmarking, googling and/or adding it to my mental list of arguments for any pro-mclamers I might run across. Those threads seem to sink quicker than a stone in an ocean.

Anti-Mclame information/ammunition is what I'd hope to find here but there seems to be far more bashing/gnashing and biting and infighting here than anything else.

mclame gets a pass from MSM and DU'ers it seem.

Seriously, they're so caught up in their hate they will not see, or read, or think.

It's on wikipedia, so it must be true.

Among other things, tunnel vision may be caused by:

1. During the aura phase of a migraine
2. Intense anger, due to the body being rapidly flooded with adrenaline and oxygen
3. A bite from a Black Mamba and other snakes with the same strength venom.

The haters here might be suffering from any or all of these three....I liked #3, metaphorically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_vision

:hi:

and we will gladly have Barack Hussein Obama as our next President.

Like a lot of people, I didn't think he was the best candidate, and I still have a few reservations, but this isn't about windmill-tilting trying to find the perfect candidate. This is about who is going to be our President for the next four, or maybe eight, years. And if he wasn't my first choice, he is a fine choice.

So, screw all those caveats and mea culpas and just get behind the better man.

We went through this last time with all the whining about Kerry during the campaing, after the election, and into the first couple months of Shrub's second term. Some of them, and some now, are professional, or semi-pro, instigators and fifth columnists. But I suspect more of them are simply whining little shits who just can't get it through their thick, self-involved heads that the republic is not going to fall over FISA or pretty much anything else that happens, or is said, during this campaign.

Me, I'll do what I can to help get him elected with no regrets. There is no other choice.

(Although my district will probably go overwhelmingly for Obama with or without my help)

Really a lot of truth in what you have posted. I was a Hillary supporter from day one but once she lost, I vote for the nominee of my party with enthusiasm. Politics does mean compromise. President Johnson used to say that politics is the art of the possible. If you are in politics and think that you are always going to get what you want on every single issue that comes up then you are going to be very unhappy in this game.
Sometimes I am struck with the similarities to the 1960 election. A young, telegenic, charismatic Senator wins the nomination and will make history as the first Catholic President if elected (JFK). More conservative elements in the party critisize him for being to liberal (LBJ supporters) and those on the left say he is too conservative(the Stevenson supporters). There were some great men in that 1960 contest for the nomination: Kennedy, LBJ, Humphrey, Symington, Stevenson. In the end all elements of the party came together to support the winner of the nomination and the rest is history.

help to remember how they all managed to come together then.

I guess I'm not really giving up, huh? Nah. Too darned stubborn. And today I came loaded for bear. :)

Funny, you liked them just fine when they were trashing Obama's opponent during the primaries.

campaign, and another one for "I'm-voting-but-I'm-not-happy-and-here's-why" forum. I guarantee the ranters wouldn't last in that forum because they ENJOY ranting AT people with viewpoints different than theirs.

Go back and look at the topics and the conversations in the threads. Can you honestly find a single instance where you have been able to change someone's mind who is on a rant? No. And you know why? Could be several of the following reasons:
(1) they're asshole-know-it-alls
(2) they're infiltrator from the Rethug Party
(3) they're the she-shoulda-been-the-nominee diehards
(4) their only source of entertainment is messageboards

on and on and on

And the sad thing is that the original message gets lost because the thread implodes off-topic!
I am truly working towards NOT responding to a negative poster, because when you do, it's on! And then it's back and forth that resorts to name-calling, and then somebody/anybody jumps in in the middle of a thread just based on one response, and than another, and another - it's like a rabid pack turning on one of its own!

It's also disgusting and counter-productive. I am serious that we need a place to post where we can encourage others to get involved with O's campaign at the grassroots level. Ppl don't realize what a wonderful opportunity this is! I don't remember any other party being this organized and INVOLVING ppl at the grassroots level. Hell, I volunteered on O's site and within minutes I was provided a walking map with the names, addresses, ages of 20 of my neighbors AND was provided with a script to use while surveying my neighbors. But what REALLY blew me out of the water is that I got sick and didn't canvas last weekend, and what do I get but an inquiry from the campaign because I had not responded, wanting to know if I needed a time extension! Wow! Are they organized or what?

Edited to add: HE'S IN IT TO WIN IT! GO, OBAMA! DO IT YOUR WAY! WE BELIEVE IN YOU! INSTEAD OF THE USUAL KICKING ASS TAKING NAMES, THE NEW APPROACH IS TAKING NAMES KICKING ASS LATER. YEAH!

from the campaign explaining issues so everyone knows exactly what Obama thinks and says - instead of the snippets from the MSM that always distort his positions.

I support Obama, because the alternative is awful, but I sure as hell am not happy about it. My problem is, I usually read the greatest threads, and don't really notice what forums they came from. So I'd probably continue to accidentally post to the wrong ones even if there was a new "voting Obama but not thrilled with him" section.

K&R

are some really great posters here who know how to voice disagreement on the issues without constantly tearing the candidate down.

And I salute them. Several are right here in this thread.

And, lest anyone think differently, I don't agree with Obama on every single thing, either. And that's because we just happen to be 2 different people. :)

is why I'm curious. Oh well--stepped on someone's sensibilities, I guess. No biggie.

Oh well. It's time for me to leave to do some new voter registration stuff. Have a great rest of the day.

It's a race. Some people run out of breath or are just aren't ready for the race. Run around them. No biggie!

It's possible to be critical of a candidate's position on a key issue and not be an Obama "hater". REALLY, it is.

It's possible to be a supporter without supplicating in totally blind fealty to every vote and decision made.

An awful lot of broad brushing of critical thinkers and civil libertarians around here, lately.

If Obama had voted differently, there would be a LOT more screaming and a lot less self-censoring and other-directed censure about the legislation itself and ALL the Dems who voted with Republicans on it yesterday. Including words about those who voted, along with 100% of the Republicans on the cloture vote. It doesn't bother DUers that Obama went that far?

There would be a LOT more criticism. Unless the last 2+ years of DU intensity on the FISA issue have been a total figment of my imagination. Funny, that.

supporting John McCain.

And threatening to vote for Nader or witholding your vote will get you kicked off this board - so I don't know where you're seeing this, 'cause I'm not seeing it anymore here on DU.

I really wonder how much good you're doing Obama as a volunteer with that attitude.

Excellent post.

it's exactly how I have been feeling. I'm tired of all the bickering. They call it a discussion or debate but it looks a hell of a lot like bitching and ragging on the man. Do you realize that Obama has been on the news everyday since January 3rd when he won in Iowa? Give the freaking guy a break. He's our guy, he sure the hell isn't going to fuck us up as much as bush has or mcsame will do. I agree with you, if mcsame wins, we are so fucked....like never before and I lived back in some crappy times too. Scares the hell out me and no one seems to care in the real world. Thanks again for posting, refreshing to hear someone else feel the same way you do.

:toast:

simply post more often, on same topic, over and over and over again. Sigh.

And for a little change, they post about how Obama shouldn't encourage our children to learn other languages. Go figure.

K&R

.

to speak my mind just like everybody else on this forum does. The difference is that I SUPPORT OUR CANDIDATE and some folks just don't like that around here.

Just sayin'. :shrug:

the "some folks" are just different from the other "some folks". 'Tis called unity and all that other hopelicious stuff.

I have no doubt I disagree with you on many things including Obama but I will be working for dems across the board victorious in November including Obama. It has to happen.

This is the part that gets to me... if you don't want to see any more derision toward St. Obama, then stop creating a space that begs for it.

The smarmy meme of "Obama haters" and "purists" is really counterproductive too. One need not hate Obama to despise his supporting a failed BushCo policy.

And anyone can see he's better than McCain.

This is getting really, really old. Stop stirring the damn pot if you don't want to smell the stench anymore! Elementary!

she thinks, huh? I guess that is reserved for the anti-Obama folks. NOT.

And I WILL say what I think. And you may not have noticed but there are LOTS of DUers who agree. The usual suspects don't. Go figure.

You don't get it. Clearly you can't see that your OP begs for the very thing you are railing against. Honestly. Never mind. Apparently you cannot absorb enlightenment, cannot observe your own folly, and you must piss on all the electric fences for yourself.


Not to enlighten one who can be enlightened is to waste a man; to endeavor to enlighten one who cannot be enlightened is to waste words. The intelligent man wastes neither his man nor his words. - CONFUCIUS


“People’s minds are changed through observation and not through argument.” - Will Rogers


“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” - Will Rogers

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

The fact is that NONE of those things will happen with McCain in office. That is a flat out FACT.

And I don't think you even read my post because what YOU replied has NOTHING to do with what I said.

So why did you even respond? Hmmm?

Well what is it, what's your plan? Help Nader get 4% of the vote? You're the one that needs to grow up and face reality.

or vote 3rd party, or whatever, due to the right turn he's taken lately.

Many are disillusioned. Failing to vote to stop this abominable FISA bill is very difficult for me to get past myself.

I will be watching Obama carefully in the coming months. He needs to do a better job of navigating the middle. Going too far to the right will alienate many of the more liberal/progressive Democrats that would otherwise support him completely. FISA was a gross miscalculation, in my opinion. We'll see if he can manage to hold onto those votes while trying to be seen as safe enough for the center.

Chances are, I'll still vote for Obama. The risk of getting President McCain are too great. If nothing else, the possibility of the Supreme Court turning even further right is too much to risk.

I'm not thrilled with Obama. He was not by far my first choice. I don't hate him, but I am now viewing him as a typical politician - which is not good for his image.

After 8 years of Bush they must be used to it.

:grouphug:

.

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

that people who actually LIKE Obama speak out, doesn't it? Especially when you see that there are so many of us here who actually support our candidate. What? Did you think you could just tear him down all the time and nobody would challenge you on it? Not HERE. Not THIS time.

I support the candidate. Do you? I challenge you to say ONE good thing about his policies.

you want only the negative posters to do. Well, NOT ANYMORE. Not THIS time. Those of us who actually support the candidate WILL say what we think. We will not be cowed by all the pissing and moaning of people who don't have ONE good thing to say about OUR candidate.

Sure, go ahead and piss on this thread and any other thread that's pro Obama. That's your right. But you damn sure better believe that I will say what I think, too, especially in my own goddamned thread.

like the good party acolytes some would people us to be.

DK Rocks!! :woohoo: :woohoo:

Psst: Hey Jennifer;

DK's also running for re-election, so we get to mention him on DU,
whether you like it or not, school hall monitor, Jennifer!

primaries to introduce his Articles of Impeachment?

Why didn't he do it before, why didn't he do it when he had a larger audience, when he could truly attract attention to the cause of impeachment by making it a campaign issue?

Was it purely political? Did he wait to introduce them after he decided not to worry about campaigning for president and after he won his re-election bid?

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy. I wanted him as the nominee. It just goes to show ya that even the most progressive leader does things for political purposes.

:hi:

Who cares?

Was the constructive criticism mixed in with the political reality too much to handle?

Kucinich is a politician too. He wanted to remain a viable candidate so he didn't make impeachment an issue while he was trying to win the nomination. He also didn't want it to hurt his chance at being reelected to his seat if he had to drop out. He waited until he was safe to introduce them, 3 months after he won his bid for re-election. It was a wise choice because it would have been used to harm his chances and we need him in office, he is progressive and wise and he is a politician. The combination is not always bad, I actually think it is a great combination.

Kucinich is the best!! :D

He actually HAS a backbone.

Why didn't he bring up impeachment when he had a larger audience, when he was a national candidate?

He has backbone when it won't hurt his efforts to obtain office. That makes him a wise candidate and that is what we need, wise candidates that know when to take a stand and how to win. That knows that timing is truly everything and there is a time and place for everything, politically speaking.

Unlike some people I won't mention. :eyes:

Psst: The primaries are over and you're supposed argument is ridiculous.

it would amaze you to discover the protections it does provide.

That should make even your hair stand on end!!

of justice so many are raging against. The bill actually provides protections for US Citizens. It repeats throughout that there must be probable cause and that the 4th amendment will be protected (as well as the 1st amendment). You need to read the op/ed found quoted and linked in this OP for a different and much more realistic perspective.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6473419

There is no immunity, there may be legal protections (as in defenses that all defendants are entitled to) but those are limited - you see the monitoring had to be lawful (that is, based upon probable cause) and any monitoring before 9/11 does not qualify for the protection (and we know that the monitoring began prior to 9/11).

Take the time to actually read to understand the bill, the discussions in this thread might help as myths were debunked.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6483380

:eyes:

Come on, tell me what makes you upset, what the bill does and show me the provisions that upset you. Let's discuss it, do some actual thinking and debate of the bill, not what someone tells you to think about it.

make you feel much better about everything.

take too much medication to allow me imbibe. Scotch doesn't mix well with pain killers and muscle relaxants, unfortunately.

So, I guess I'll just have to cure what ails me by saying what I think. Thankfully, that's allowed here. :)

support him. Am so sorry I cannot contribute to his campaign, am in Canada, lots o us Canadians know that Obama will make difference being the next POTUS. It is clear, either another 4 years of Bush administration or a change. Even Alberta, which is mega conservative, prefers Obama.

Trust me, the world will be celebrating when Obama becomes the President of the US. Yes folks, he will be the next President of the US.

Hang in there Jennifer, I love your posts.

only people who name call people whom are upset with good reason.

Stop with your vitriol.

all the places I've been in Canada. I haven't been to Manitoba or Saskatchewan yet of the southern provinces, but someday I'll get there, too.

I love seeing all the Canadians here supporting Obama. It is so important that we get the views of people in Canada since we have so many shared interests and because there is so much similarity in our countries.

Tell me, what do you think of your health care system? We get so much false information about it, so I'm curious about how you see it.

You pissed about FISA - good I am too. But bitching about it as a concept that it all rides on the shoulders on Barack Obama is a sure fire way to discourage voters and help get an asshole like McSame elected.

FISA should be debated but in General Discussion where we should debate the other failures of the Democratic Congress and plan on what we can do to light a collective fire on the asses of these people. But GDP - that's for getting Barack Obama elected. Anyone not on that team should go elsewhere.