Your principles are not running for president

And therefore you can't vote for them. We dems are presented with a distinct choice for president - Obama or McCain. It's easy for me to choose Obama, and I feel like my principles are as important as any other poster's on DU.

This is a zero sum game. There are no do-overs. McCain or Obama will be president come November.

So we are all presented with a choice. Come November, I hope we don't find ourselves scratching our collective heads, and asking ourselves, "What happened?" The specter of another four years of republican rule should be reason enough to spend our time criticizing McCain - both on and offline - to try and influence those people sitting on the fence, or who aren't convinced that Obama is the best choice.

I can think of no other exercise more futile than continuing to pick at Obama until November. Well, maybe kicking ourselves in the head is more futile, but that takes a tremendous amount of flexibility and toning.

So before the obvious replies come in - What about this vote? Or what about such and such stance? etc. etc. etc. I have to come clean. I wasn't on the Obama bandwagon during the primary fight, and there are distinct areas where I disagree with Obama's positions. But the time for criticism will be after November. Until then, I resolve to do my best to make sure that Obama gets sworn in as President of the United States.

Extremely well said.

Even if it means others must suffer and die for them.

As a well-off, middle-class American, I realize that I won't be forced to toil in a sweat-shop, or die in a foreign desert or from a back-alley abortion... but I'm okay with others suffering those fates as long as I can sit comfortably at my computer and type anonymous screeds equating political compromise to moral decay and weakness.

It's far too comfortable for me in my fairy-tale political dream-world to ever condescend to anything as... dirty... and plebian as compromising my principles for the greater good. There is no greater good outside my home.

Just because the Real World doesn't seem to match my political theories is no reason to abandon them. In fact, reasoned arguments for dealing in real-world politics make me cling to my principles even tighter!

Oh yeah: there is NO difference between Obama and McCain. None! I challenge anyone to explain how weakening the Democratic candidate can possibly matter. The only thing that matters is showing everyone how good I feel about my enlightened principles!!

I had to read it twice, though, to see the sarcasm. Too much time on DU, I guess :)

For the principle seminar posters, it's too bad that pixels are so cheap.

I didn't want to use the sarcasm thingy. :)

I think that has been proven quite obvious.

That's a principle that will make a difference in our lives.
What I like best about this principle is that
it doesn't leave me without a nose on my face,
and it is a principle rooted in the realm of reality.

Or Kucinich would the nominee with double digit support.


We have to start somewhere...

Have a nice day.

And not voting is making a choice. And if you vote third party, you are making a choice that will impact whether it will be Obama or McCain.

I sure as hell would rather lobby for precious principles with a democrat as president than fight upstream against four more years of GOP rule.

Stop trying to spray perfume on a piece of shit.

this Fall. Obama or McCain. Choose. Not voting is a choice, too. That's the point of my post. We all have a choice to make, whether or not Obama votes one way or another.

And if you don't care whether or not a republican or democrat is in office, that's your choice too. I think there's a tremendous amount of difference between the two parties, while recognizing that no one is perfect.

I do vote my principles

You see utter compromise on our most basic principles have gotten us into this hole

It's your choice, your vote. Do you want a republican or democratic administration for the next four years? That's your choice - which way will you go? And not voting is a choice too - a choice for acceptance of whatever the public foists upon you.

sorry if this is too complex for people to get it

Explain it to me - try making the complexity more understandable to a lay person like myself.

I see a binary choice this Fall. If you think that someone other than McCain or Obama will be president this fall, I would love to know how that would happen.

Principles are important. But unfortunately in our representative democracy, politics is a zero sum exercise. There are winners and losers, and no do-overs. That's the reality, and we won't be able to "deep think" our way out of it before November.

and sorry if I do my thinking in and out of electoral seasons.

Problem with being a thinking person... I guess.

That also leads to dealing with memes and how to create a positive environment and noticing when it is the other side that creates thinking patterns

this binary thinking is not only a reality of the system but republican in nature... either or is quite republican and driven by fear

Being true to your principles tells the voter that you believe in them.

Again meme creation, and I'd recommend people start readying Lakoff and taking him seriously, if you need an authority in this. I'd recommend the party should do that as well and reinforce core principles.

But you can be sure that I am not going to surrender to binary, fear driven, false choices, thinking

we have the politicians we do because for a long time we have failed to hold them accountable for their actions. We are at least partially responsible for the political climate in america.

Candidates who aren't perceived to stand up for their principles lose elections. That's the overriding lesson of the past 15 years, at least- and its played out time and time again.

Sell out principles for expediency or in an attempt to "reach out" to opposition groups one too many times, and the public turns on you. Irrespective of their opinions on specific issues.

Ever wonder why Congresses approval ratings have plummeted to single digits over the past 18 months?

Same phenomena is at play.

I know I sound like a broken record, but that's what it all boils down to this Fall, doesn't it? Obama or McCain will become president. I prefer Obama, even though I don't agree with all of his positions. Which one is your choice?

What you or I think or do isn't even a drop in the bucket in the scheme of things. However, collective impressions are another matter.

Many voters don't respond to the false choice of either Obama or McCain. If they see both of them as smarmy politicians, they won't turn out- or they'll vote 3rd party- or they'll vote their emotions and prejudices.

We've seen this time and time again.

The youth vote in particular is fickle (which makes sense, because young people tend to be more idealistic- and therefore more easily disillusioned).

Here's a vignette that shows how that works (from an Obama supporter who ironically was trying to emphasize why Obama wouldn't fall into Kerry's trap):



Now, what cab driver in their right minds would think that Bush's policies would be closer to his interests than Kerry's?

That's a vote we've been losing for decades and I say fuck 'em. They like "tough guys"? Fine, they can go watch a Chuck Norris movie.

:kick:

1) i will criticize where and when i see fit.

2) i will never take a loyalty oath to the democratic party

3) your post sucks.

But Obama or McCain will be elected president come November. That's what all this boils down to.

so what? are you here to reinforce the lesser-of-two-evils theory. that would be entirely unoriginal on your part. unless you've got something else to offer, you're just boring/annoying.

Your "continuing to pick at Obama until November" is my "remaining engaged with the candidate", which is something he's invited. I've also volunteered to help with the campaign, will vote for the man, and am planning to donate if I can ever free up some fricking money, so I'll speak up when I damned well please.

that makes us CRINGE at the idea of McSame getting the presidency. I see your point about people going overboard. No, we're not going to agree with everything our candidate says or does. However, it's valid to hold him to the principles he has run on. And right now he has some explaining to do (FISA, Iraq, women's issues). He has been running on a platform of change from the status-quo politics. That's what brought so many people onto his bandwagon. Let's not forget that. I'd hope that he will want to keep people excited to vote for him, rather than view him as a lesser of two evils. For once I'd like to vote in the general election feeling that way, personally.



http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.273784559

was ok...we are approaching a week later. Now its only bitching and whining that is going on.