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Bush's Big, Big Mistake: Scrubbing Ken Cordier's Name is a Felony.

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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:38 PM
Original message
Bush's Big, Big Mistake: Scrubbing Ken Cordier's Name is a Felony.
Karl Rove may have just finally screwed up...big time!

Please follow:

1.) Someone ordered the Webmaster at www.georgewbush.com to scrub Ken Cordier's name from the website altogether. It didn't just "disappear" by itself.

2.) Whoever the webmaster is that scrubbed the page and then uploaded it again (there is a permanent record, folks) must be subpoenaed and questioned as to WHO told him/her to take Ken Cordier's name off of Bush official website.

3.) Any direct linkage between the Bush Campaign and the phony swift boat ad is a violation of federal election laws.

4.) FAR WORSE: Any attempt to hide evidence of a crime is Obstruction of Justice. Now we are talking major felony activity.

WHO DID THE SCRUBBING?

WHO TOLD THE SCRUBBER TO DO IT?

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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. They outed Plame
and got away with it.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. They Didn't "Get Away With It"-Serious Charges Require Careful Prosecution
and the investigation is still ongoing.

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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. they are going to get away with it
I really do think.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Help me to catch-up,
Who is Ken Cordier? Why was he in the web page, and why was he removed?
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Ken Cordier is in the swifboat ad and it turns out that he was on
some Bush/Cheney Steering Committee until (I think) August 19. His name has now disappeared from some Bush/Cheney website.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. here's the page, archived at good old Google
http://216.239.57.104/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.georgewbush.com%2FVeterans%2FSteeringCommittee.aspx+%22kenneth+cordier%22&btnG=Google+Searchbr%20/

Scrubbing that page will get them into deep obstruction of justice doo doo after the FEC gets through with them.

Then comes the libel suit.

This thing is going to blow back big time.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Do we have a screen capture of the way it was before? Anyone? n/t
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Philostopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
55. I'm sure you have a screen cap ...
Just FYI -- it's off the cache, now. I don't want to accuse Google of anything, my guess is the higher the traffic on a page, the more often they update the cache. Either that, or it's been changed at least twice so far in the past 24 hrs. Either way, the cache no longer gives Cordier's name.


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JSG Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. screen caps and pdfs
A bunch of people made both screen caps and PDF files of the cached page with Cordier's name. I also printed out a hard copy.
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Doosh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
40. tsk tsk tsk
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kick! n/t
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 08:46 PM by Kukesa
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Kick
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why is this a felony?
Is there a law that a webmaster can't delete stuff?
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It's Who Told the Webmaster to Scrub It...And Why.
It appears that the only name scrubbed from the site was Cordier's (which MSNBC has even now picked up and reported on).

The National Republican Party that owns the georgebush.com website KNOWS the federal election laws and has flatly denied any linkage between the GOP and the swiftboat group (as has the White House).

Cordier was listed as being a part of the official "national steering committe" for the Bush Campaign to vets and at the same time was orchestrating the ad attack.

Whoever changed the website gave his/her password to make the change and will be easy to identify.

Getting them to tell WHO told them to change the site should be great fun.

Rove is sweating over the scrubbing. It is obstruction of justice.

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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Thanks
I like your analysis. Someone tried to obstruct justice. Let's hope we can nail some of them.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Like They Say, "It's Not the Crime, But the Cover-Up"
:)
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. It's all deja vu all over again all the time now.

Rumors of troop reductions in Iraq as an "October surprise" -- or as "a secret plan to end the war."

"Peace with honor."

"Not the crime but the cover-up."

Somebody needs to visit Nixon's grave and see if they hear laughter.
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Cobia Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. But Rove ain't Bush
Nice try.

Unless this gets Bush or Cheney thrown in jail, I don't give a shit.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Obstruction of justice
noted upthread, i think.

dp
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. It just gets juicier and juicier doesn't it........eom
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. Welcome to the Big Leagues, Karl...
Bush's Brain has always worked his dark magic outside of press scrutiny in relatively small ponds like Texas, South Carolina and Georgia.

Now the poor boy finds himself in a National campaign where every sloppy mistake he makes is mined, refined, polished and placed on the doorstep of the national press... where, who knows, they might even run with it.

You are Ssooo cooked.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ken Cordier ..... Ken Dahlberg
Ken and Ken...

Ken D helped bring Nixon down by his involvement in a very direct payment to the burglars. (Search Nixon Dahlberg Watergate)

Now -

the other Ken appears to be a direct link between the G Bush campaign and the swiftie viet vets.

Hoooyah!
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. Who would prosecute this?
Seriously. I have no doubt Rove and the Swifties are joined at the hip. So what? Other than us, who is going to give a damn.

I want Bush gone. I want the responsibility for this leveled at his campaign but I am so cynical that I just don't believe anything will come of this.

Look at Ollie North, scumbucket supreme. He has his own damn TV show.

MzPip
:dem:
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Cobia Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. John Ashcroft?
I don't know who would prosecute.


Kerry needs to hammer this.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. We Can Start By Pressuring the Press To Ask The Bush Campaign
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 09:19 PM by David Zephyr
for the name of the individual who made the change and then ask to interview him/her.

Then watch them step all over their collective appendages as they begin to lie and wish to hell that they'd never opened up this can of poop.
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Cobia Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Never do it
90% of the press is in Bush's hands.

They just play right along.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. They're trying to blame Cordier....
Fast moving story. And I can't help feeling the Internet, if not DU itself, is driving the story..


Bush Supporter Leaves Campaign Over Role in Ad

By Jeremy Pelofsky

CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - A Vietnam veteran who worked with President Bush (news - web sites)'s campaign has left over his appearance in a commercial by a group challenging Democratic candidate John Kerry (news - web sites)'s war record, a campaign spokesman said on Saturday.

Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said Ken Cordier was a Bush supporter during the 2000 election and served as a member of his a steering committee to help reach out to veterans during this election.

"Col. Cordier did not inform the campaign of his involvement in the advertisement being run by (Swift Boat Veterans for Truth)," Schmidt said. "Because of his involvement with this 527 (group), Col. Cordier will no longer participate" in the steering committee.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20040822/pl_nm/campaign_ads_dc
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Cobia Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Well if he left
Why shouldn't his name be deleted?
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Because The Story Broke First And THEN They Issued This Press Release
They got busted by Keith Olbermann nationally (And us and various blogs this morning) and then, in damage control, issued this story to yahoo AFTER they had been caught.

Look at the timeline.

Pretty clear that Bush/Cheney organization monitors this site.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Yep. They know they got caught and now it's damage control...
Love it.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Junkdrawer! OMG! They Know They Are In Deep Shit Down In Crawford.
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 09:29 PM by David Zephyr
Here begins the lie to support the lie:

"'Col. Cordier did not inform the campaign of his involvement in the advertisement being run by (Swift Boat Veterans for Truth),' Schmidt said."

This story is 37 minutes old! The Crawford Crowd is nervous.

Look for Bush to backpedal on the swiftboat ad now...quickly.
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Cobia Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Prove he didn't inform them
You'll have to prove any wrongdoing
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. No. The proof of ties between the swift boat liars and the Bush
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 09:37 PM by janx
campaign--That's it. That's all. That *IS* the wrongdoing, according to law.

That would be like somebody from moveon.org's being on a Dem campaign. Moveon would never do that. It's illegal.

It's a CRIME.
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Cobia Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. But will this lead to Bush being in jail?
If not I don't give a shit, unless Cheney goes to jail.

I don't care about fatarse Rove.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Rove in jail ??? Oh Please be true.
Oh Please be true.
Oh Please be true.
Oh Please be true.
Oh Please be true.
Oh Please be true.
Oh Please be true.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #32
50. Who cares whether you give a shit or not
What you think is irrelevant.
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SnohoDem Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #32
60. Rove is Bush's brain.
Without him, there's no way *can win.
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Dosen't matter if he has left NOW....
.. what matters is what he did BEFORE he left. They're still in deep kimchee.
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. It's been said here many times Google was some how connected with ...
These fascist fucks in the white house. This has been going on awhile now. From stories positive of shrub in google news to web sites missing from there site!
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. Woohoo!
Rate this story:

"Bush Supporter Leaves Campaign Over Role in Ad"

The disclosure of Cordier's involvement came one day after White House spokesman Scott McClellan and Bush campaign chairman Marc Racicot denied the campaign coordinated with the group on the ads, which claim that Kerry lied about his Vietnam War service.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20040822/pl_nm/campaign_ads_dc
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Rated High.
Thanks.

Looks like they are covering their tracks as fast as they can.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
37. It doesn't matter that they are trying to cover this up
It makes it bigger.

The facts are:

Cordier was officially part of the Bush campaign when he did the commercial. That is a violation of the 527 regs.

And after this story hit the net, and after the story of the Bush/Cheney attempted hit the national media through Olbermann,
THEN the Bush/Cheney folks issued a press release saying that Cordier was no longer involved with the campaign.

The timeline on this does not bode well for Bush/Cheney.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Yep. AFTER THE FACT.
I agree.

They are now reacting to the firestorm of shit that is coming their way.

This statement from Crawford doesn't make this story go away.

The boys in Crawford are in a mess.
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
38. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##
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GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
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This week is our third quarter 2004 fund drive. Democratic
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
41. They kicked him from the campaign, and removed his name...
I don't think this is a big deal (the removal from the website).

The story of the linkage itself is big news though. I just don't consider this a coverup, particularly when they did a press release about the very thing you are accusing them of covering up.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Depends on the timing.
If they removed the name. Then realized that someone caught it and kicked the guy out afterwards, then it's a crime. If they kicked the guy out, then removed it, it is probably not a crime.

But apparently someone requested that the Google cache be cleaned. Why would they do that? That smells like a cover-up.
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. IMHO "Cover-up" just won't fly...
.. when they put out a press release acknowledging what they are supposedly covering up.

I would have slammed them if they hadn't kicked the SOB out and/or removed the name.

There is SO MUCH of the lying and bad acts of the * administration, we shouldn't have to reach like this. Switching the story from one of the * campaign having obvious ties to the SBV to one that says they destroyed evidence by removing his name from the website is like having a dollar bill fall out of your pocket when you reach down to pick up a penny.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. Very sweet...and getting better....
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zuzu98 Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
43. this website is now "unavailable"
www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/bush/bushorgvet.html

the Google cache from 8/04 has:

Colonel Kenneth Cordier (U.S. Air Force, Ret.) is a national veterans steering committee member from Dallas, Texas. He flew 175 missions during two combat tours in Vietnam. He was shot down in 1966, 85 miles north of Hanoi, and held in four different prisons until his release on March 4, 1973. After the war, he served in a number of flying and staff assignments, culminating as Air Attach to the United Kingdom. He retired in 1985, and then represented British Aerospace in Washington D.C. He is now a private management consultant in Dallas, Texas and has held leadership positions in several veterans organizations, including NAM POWs.


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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #43
57. trying to find it in www.archive.org yields "page not found"
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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
45. Here's some timeline info
Edited on Sun Aug-22-04 12:18 AM by EarlG
Skinner took this screen capture of Google's cache on Saturday afternoon, at around 3pm.

?CLICK

As you can see, the cache snapshot is dated August 2, 2004.

I noticed that the cache had been updated at around 8pm.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=648762

The new cache snapshot is dated August 21, 2004, at 5:19pm.

So here's the question:

Is it mere coincidence that Google's cache was updated on Saturday evening - just a few hours after this story started to break - when it previously hadn't been updated since August 2?

Digby first reported this story on Friday at around 8:30pm. The cache mysteriously updated on Saturday, almost 24 hours later. If anyone has tried to get a link removed or updated from Google before, you'll know that it is possible to contact them to get them to change the cache:

"If you want the change to take effect sooner than this, the site owner must contact us and request immediate removal of archived content."

http://www.google.com/webmasters/3.html

The story of Cordier's resignation broke at around 11:45pm Saturday.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swiftboat/index.html

I wonder when was Cordier's information removed from the Bush campaign site? Surely it can't have been before he resigned from the campaign. Which means that if he was still working for them when they removed the information, they knew exactly what they were doing when they scrubbed it. Once they got caught they attempted to get the Google cache scrubbed too... but it was too late.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. how about this? DUer found his own PDF CV
http://www.okbar.org/news/cordierbio.pdf

his political involvement page STOPS at 2000; nothing since

what does that say to the internet Encylpedia Browns?
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
46. A campaign website is not an official document. It's not a crime to
change it. The "crime," if any, lies in the fact this Cordier guy was working with the SBV 527 and the Bush/Cheney campaign at the same time. There is no crime in firing the guy and removing his name from their campaign website.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #46
52. that's not even the crime; it's civil, not criminal
the crime will come when/if, somebody has to testify about Cordier's involvement, and why his name was pulled/who pulled it/who ordered it

the crime, as is most common, is in the coverup, as others here have said
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CaTeacher Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #46
54. I agree.
If the guy is no longer part of the campaign--you take his name off--no harm no foul.

Records from when he was part of the campaign (before he quit or was fired--depending on which story you believe) should not be changed. Especially if the matter is under criminal investigation.

There is no crime in changing a website. But--if it makes people feel happy to believe this--go ahead.

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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
47. Let's hope this gets legs!
:bounce:
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Bimini_Twisted Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Anyone have a link that that outlines the MSGOP story?
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #49
56. here is another link
one that might help you understnad more of what is happening for the good to MSNBC. I also have in the past referred to them as MSGOP, this thread might give you a differnt opinion.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
53. I don't think chaging a website is destroying evidence.
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Keirsey Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #53
59.  Google Code of Conduct
Our informal corporate motto is "Don't be evil." We Googlers generally relate those words to the way we serve our users – as well we should. But being "a different kind of company" means more than the products we make and the business we're building; it means making sure that our core values inform our conduct in all aspects of our lives as Google employees.

The Google Code of Conduct is the code by which we put those values into practice. This document is meant for public consumption, but its most important audience is within our own walls. This code isn't merely a set of rules for specific circumstances but an intentionally expansive statement of principles meant to inform all our actions; we expect all our employees, temporary workers, consultants, contractors, officers and directors to study these principles and do their best to apply them to any and all circumstances which may arise.

The core message is simple: Being Googlers means striving toward the highest possible standard of ethical business conduct. This is a matter as much practical as ethical; we hire great people who work hard to build great products, but our most important asset by far is our reputation as a company that warrants our users' faith and trust. That trust is the foundation upon which our success and prosperity rests, and it must be re-earned every day, in every way, by every one of us.


http://www.google.com/governance/conduct.html


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