OK, Colin Powell for VP, yes or no (and why).

I think he is VERY qualified to be Obama's VP.

What say you.

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/images/+2006/powell-colin.jpg

I assume Obama would want that person for some important reason, and even if I don't agree, it certainly wouldn't upset me.

for a dem I want a dem, not a repug for vp that might become president...

what makes good, effective, patriotic public officials or leaders. Looking back through history, it turns out they weren't all Democrats.

He is a hero in my book.

Resigning because you weren't happy is one thing. Allowing the public to assume various things is another. But he NEVER stood up against the Bush admin and fight for the people and for that he is NO hero. He's just another polluter and just as them for not preventing further destruction.

He should have resigned before he furthered Bushco's fiction about WMD and Saddam.

This wasn't a relatively minor political thing. This country and the world trusted him, and he betrayed us all.

NO to VP or any post in the administration.

He betrayed us all on the most monumental level.

He'd have to seriously speak out against * and the GOP and change parties.

meetings in 2002. Not to mention, he was instrumental in taking us to war.

Heros usually don't let things go that far. :shrug:

He's no hero. He knowingly lied to start a war, promoted that war as long as they would let him, then retired to live in luxury. When he decided he wanted more cash, and that he maybe wanted to improve his reputation a little, he began speaking out against Bush, claiming that he was tricked into lying before the UN.

He wasn't tricked. He gave information he knew was false, and lied about it even when he was supposedly "coming clean." What's more, that's a pattern for him, starting with Mai Lai in Viet Nam and continuing through his days under Reagan.

I'll give him some credit. He was smarter than the average Bush cronie. He had more of a conscience. He probably at least feels guilty over what he did. But he proved he was willing to lie us into war and slaughter millions of innocent civilians for his own advancement. Twice. He gets no credit for that from me.

He's not a contender for VP. If he were, I'd be looking at other candidates. But I'm sure he's not.

(Per Powell's biography written with his cooperation.) Powell didn't resign in protest before he prostituted his "credibility" arguing for the war to Congress and the world based on lies. And he didn't resign in protest in 2003 or earlier in 2004 when the excuses and lies for war had all unraveled.

No, Powell only resigned when the Bush White House informed him it wanted to make a change and wanted his letter of resignation. Nothing "heroic" or principled about Powell's resignation.

still think he's a HERO?????

Looks like someone hasn't been paying attention enough....just unfuckingbeleiveable. :wow:

Come on. He lied to the UN, knew he was lying, and resigned when he realized he lied for nothing. Is that what we want for VP?

NO EXCUSES FOR WAR CRIMINALS.

No pukes either. Most pukes are would be war criminals, had they the chance.

Bush admin or spoke out against them. He just left and went and did his own thing as he allowed Bush to misle the American people and run the US into a deficit which has ruined our economy and riddled our infrastructure worthless (which has led to the deaths of the citizenry). He can't be salvaged and I wouldn't think of having him share even the same air as Obama.

Becasue all I can think of is republican sell -out at the United Nations.

Even Colin Powel regrets that one.

a tell all book before the election.

...of being assassinated (or MORE danger, I should say).

Anyone who continues to push the idea of him on the ticket after knowing about those events is highly suspect.

Kindly put your bible, torch, and pitchfork down and step away from the computer.

Go look up his role in the My Lai cover-up and the bullshit he sold to the UN.

Then tell me with a straight face he should be on the ticket.

Powell could have been a great man and he flunked every moral test as far as I can tell.

I used to have respect for him, too, back when I was too young to vote and didn't know any better.

For many reasons...

...not the least of which is his reference to the "fucking crazies" he was saddled with in the Booosh Administration.

But way fucked up.

Bye.

He took us to war....that's what he did. And he did it with a little vial at the UN. He's a piece of shit.

he wouldn't have come up with his "Powell Doctrine" otherwise. But he did allow himself to be used for a hawk war agenda, and he knows it. I won't hold it against him if he's willing to redeem himself and work for the RIGHT administration. Not sure about VP, though.

I don't understand how anyone can trust him with anything again. He's been at it for years. How can anyone not hold this against him?

when he was a Chimpster team member--following orders. That's what most military men are trained to do, which is why they make dubious choices for civilian leadership positions.

and a war crime.

how he DIDN'T know that the administration was trumping up a false case for war (and using his rep as a trustworthy figure to sell it)--but I don't know for sure how much he was privy to--Rumsfeld and Cheney marginalized him almost as soon as he took the SoS position. He needs to come out and fess up to the whole thing and his role in it, IMO--that would go a long way toward repairing his reputation.

Comprehensive article on Powell, and this was his response to the letter informing Command that a massacre had taken place:

Powell's Response

The letter's troubling allegations were not well received at Americal headquarters.

Major Powell undertook the assignment to review Glen's letter, but did so without questioning Glen or assigning anyone else to talk with him. Powell simply accepted a claim from Glen's superior officer that Glen was not close enough to the front lines to know what he was writing about, an assertion Glen denies.

After that cursory investigation, Powell drafted a response on Dec. 13, 1968. He admitted to no pattern of wrongdoing. Powell claimed that U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were taught to treat Vietnamese courteously and respectfully. The Americal troops also had gone through an hour-long course on how to treat prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions, Powell noted.

"There may be isolated cases of mistreatment of civilians and POWs," Powell wrote in 1968. But "this by no means reflects the general attitude throughout the Division." Indeed, Powell's memo faulted Glen for not complaining earlier and for failing to be more specific in his letter.



http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Political/Collin%20Powell_Legend.html

Powell is a pig and he's been one for a long time.

I'm not sure it's been conclusively proven, though. The article you excerpt above sounds more like a mid-level officer who didn't want to believe that a big, ugly problem developed on his watch or in his beloved Army, rather than a deliberate deceiver. It's hard to be a fair judge of his actions through hindsight and history.

more power to you.

all sides of the story.

the WMD crap. Powell ignored his own dept's findings to trumpet the Administration's case for war to Congress and the UN.

Fucking coward.

But the number on reason is he lost all credibility lying for the regime to get us into a war.

Bill Clinton???

:sarcasm:

For example, State Dept knew the aluminum tubes were not suitable for nuclear purposes long before Powell supported claims to Congress and later the UN that they were "evidence" of an Iraqi nuke program.

2001, before Sept 11: Powell says Iraq no threat, no WMD programs, containment has worked.

October 2001: State Department begins planning the post-Saddam Hussein transition in Iraq, the "Future of Iraq Project." http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB198/index.htm

Fall 2002: Powell presented the bogus Niger yellowcake claims (already had been debunked by State INR and others) and aluminum tubes (also previously debunked by State INR, DOE, IAEA) as proof of Iraq's nuke program in briefings to Congress before the IWR vote.

2003: Powell's dog and pony show at the UN. Refrains from using the yellowcake claims, but does present the previously debunked aluminum tube claims as evidence of an Iraqi nuke program.

Powell knew the way the wind was blowing and fronted for the Administration. He wasn't naive or operating in an information vacuum, he was on board.

Who could trust him again. He should have resigned in protest to save any integrity he had. Ask Colonel Wilkerson.

if he wants to come clean about the Bush WH and lend support to Democrats by way of exposing the Rethugs he's welcome aboard.

...to the public before Iraq. He could have made the difference. But he stayed quiet.

The bastard is guilty of treason. And his son is a piece of shit as well. You can thank Mikey Powell the next time you hear a 30 year old classic rock song bleeped on the radio. Or even a TV show like The Waltons.... yes, even the god damned WALTONS - now censored in reruns because old grandpa said "hell" or "god damn" or something else that Mikey Powell found "indecent". I've even seen the words "Jesus Christ" censored from an episode of Jerry Springer. And not even in the context of "taking the Lord's name in vain", but from an actual minister reading from the Bible!

This is madness and fuck these Repuke pieces of shit who made it happen.

Powell is a disgusting liar. i don't know about you, but i'm about fed up with disgusting fucking liars in the WH.

If he turns whistleblower out of sincere conscience, THEN maybe he is qualified to dodge a jail term. Thats as far as it goes.

He threw away that chance, and proved to be quite the loyal general, not at all like Ike!

He could have saved us trillions of dollars and thousands of lives, by being President who would have been the FIRST Black President, in 2000, better than Bush, heck maybe better than Gore!

He had his chance... it's OVER for him.

First off what can he deliver? He's not going to increase the black vote anymore then already. He can't bring a state. The repubs mostly hate him and view him as a traitor and a liberal republican so he's not going to help there either. So he brings no new voters in and at the same time "if" he became president we can't forget he is still a republican, even if he's to the left of most republicans.

I don't mind if Obama asked him into the cabinet. National Security adviser or Defense secretary. I see he's less then popular around here and that's to be expected but he has gone into great detail about the regret he has for his involvement in the Iraq fiasco, especially the UN speech and I forgive him.

He has expressed admiration for Obama and that's a good thing. Powell is still well regarded overall by the mainstream and his public support could help with independents.

blatant lies

Endorsement? Yes
VP? No

Powell supported the invasion of Iraq.
One of Obama's core strengths is his early opposition to the Iraq fiasco.
Obama will not pick someone who undermines his message of sound judgment.

Obama needs to pick a Democrat so a Democratic VP will be in line to run in 8 years.

If he announced that he was becoming a Democrat because he believed that the Repugs foreign policy stance is weakening America and making less safe, then... HELL YES...


I can't support an R on the ticket. But if he switched then I would be all for him.

This would also establish our party as the one that is more capable of keeping Americans safe.

To have that proposed on DU? Now, after everything we know? Unfuckingbelievable. :mad:

People are pushing Republicans who should be in jail as candidates over and above good, non criminal Democrats. I was under the impression that promoting Republicans over Democrats was very much against the rules here.
The people promoting Republicans and defending them here are not Democrats in my book at all.

Powell or any other Republican on the ticket and I pass on that ticket. I do not vote for Republicans or other known criminals, ever, period. It will not happen. Because, you see, I am a DEMOCRAT.
I think those pushing these Republicans should be banned from DU. Period. Democratic. Underground. My. Ass.

this is bullshit

Jeesus.

I mean really now, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU THINKING????? And those posters who are agreeing with you -- to have that sentiment come out of any DUers mouth -- i just can't fucking believe it. :wow:

THE MAN KNOWINGLY WENT BEFORE THE UN AND GAVE "EVIDENCE" HE KNEW TO BE BULLSHIT TO HELP BUSH PUSH FOR AN ILLEGAL WAR. HAVE YOU FUCKING LOST YOUR GODDAMNED MIND???

And yes I am yelling. :mad: :mad:

Insane, just fucking insane -- invite a war crimial to be part of an Obama administration.

I have truly heard it all now....

A couple of days ago there was a poll with all the usual suspects, and Powell did stunningly better than anybody else among Independents and pretty much just as well as Hillary.

Long story short, Powell is MUCH more acceptable to rank and file Democrats and Independents than he is on DU.

yellowcake and WMDs when even he knew it was bullshit. Haven't you heard the joke "What does Mrs. Powell say before Colin leaves for work every morning? 'Don't forget to take your spine out, dear'!" Powelll is possibly the worst of all, because he knew better.

Vice-President!? I'd rather see him in an orange jumpsuit right next to Cheney and Rumsfeld.

He's a perfect match for the candidate of hope and change.

:eyes:

No way. Nope. Sorry. :puke: :mad:


Powell's a sell out.

No repukes on the ticket. Maybe a couple in cabinet posts would be ok. But that's my limit.

I cannot FUCKING believe someone is proposing this on DU!

desirable possibility? What's with the Colin Powell fan club/apologists here?

So what is the basis for your support of Powell? You ask people to provide reasons for their views and yet you provide none. None that are factual, that is.

Again, to counter your previous claims in this thread:

1. Powell didn't resign from the Bush Administration in protest: according to his own biography written with his cooperation, his resignation was requested by the White House after the Nov 2004 election. The "resignation" story released in Nov 2004 was a face saving fiction agreed upon by both Powell and the Administration. But Powell is an honorable man.

2. Powell within a year and a half went from asserting that Saddam had no WMD programs, posed no threat to his neighbors or the US, to having a State Dept project for rebuilding Iraq after Saddam's overthrow (while the Administration claimed it had no plans for Iraq) and making the case for war (WMD's) to Congress, in spite of various intel/scientific assessments (including his own State Dept's) that the Administration's WMD claims were bogus. He wasn't uninformed, he wasn't deprived of info as to the true nature of Iraq's WMD's. He knew the Bush Administration intended to invade Iraq and supported and faciliated it with his briefings to Congress, his presentation to the UN, and his other public statements and appearances. But Powell is an honorable man.

Strange how for some Powell is teflon coated. He's been around and involved in Repub dirty work for decades but seemingly never manages to get publically splattered while the people he works for, and whose bidding he did, are reviled. Weinberger gets indicted for his role in Iran Contra; Powell's his special aide but fortunately Weinberger's pardon prevents further investigation and info from going public, including Powell's involvement, knowledge of Iran Contra and whether he lied to Congress. Powell's a great PR image guy. Cheney comes off like the creepy lying crook he is. But Powell presents himself as reasonable and personable and credible....who better to rely on to sell a war based on lies to Congress and the American people? And then he distances himself from it as if he were a mere innocent bystander. And some people evidently buy it, facts to the contrary.

Poor Colin, he just happens to be nearby when there's Repub dirty work to be done and he does it. But Powell is an honorable man....

I posted a FUCKING POLL, AND YOU ASSUME JUST TO MAKE YOURSELF APPEAR INTELLIGENT.

And in post 21, you weren't at all suggesting that Powell simply was given erroneous WMD info and blamelessly, unknowingly promulgated it? No one could possibly infer that from your response to the poster who said he lied about WMD?

I responded directly to those posts with factual information that refuted them. I didn't simply "assume" anything from your poll.

OK, you're not a fan or apologist for Powell. He's just a hero in your book. Or so you said.

How hard is that to understand? I wouldn't be leaving the Democratic party, the Democratic party would be leaving me.

Wow. I can't believe any decent person would support that criminal.

The 'good soldier' who covered up My Lai!
The 'good soldier" who knew damn well that he was lying at the UN, who didn't regign when he should have if there was any integrity in his little finger!

Christ on a popsicle stick, stupider questions have been asked on DU about Britney's crotch.

That takes care of it for me.

no offense

this shit is getting absolutely ridiculous. Since when did people decide it was cool to start fucking pushing Bush cabinet war criminals as VP choices when there are plenty of DEMOCRATS to choose from?! :grr:

It's the usual suspects trolling this shit all over DU. We see you, and we're paying attention!

He's a liar and cheat like the rest.

Oh hell no. No way. no time. That filth needs to retire now.

I'd like to point out that you are a liar. Your first posting after the OP said:
He's a hero in my book.

So your promotional objectives are clear. You did not just ask a question. You asked a question and then used that to promote a Republican war criminal and liar on a Democratic website, you promote this Bushie over and above the large field of quailfied Democrats.

Calling people names for not accepting your love of Powell on DU? Takes some nerve and some serious lack of reason, insight and basic intelligence. Dumbass indeed. You can not even stand behind your own statements. Colin Powell, liar and Bushie, is a hero in your book who should be vice President. You said it. You posted it. You quaver and lash out when called on it, but you said it,you posted it.

did not, he enabled the war.

Hell no to Colin Powell.

That alone makes all questions of debating the pros and cons completely pointless.

This would be just as silly as asking if we support Johnny Depp or RFK jr. for Vice President. Colin Powell is no more under consideration and it is no more likely that he will be the Vice Presidential nominee than either of them. In fact it is no more likely that Colin Powell, Johnny Depp or RFK Jr. will be the Vice Presidential nominee than I will be.

Why not debate something more relevant and more possible like, "should the color of U.S. dollar bills be changed to fluorescent orange?"

:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf:

Powell's address to the United Nations in support of Dubya's assertion that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, including wpms in mobile labs, was unconscionable, IMO.

Either he is not bright enough to examine the nature of evidence in support of the claim or he knew it was a lie and gave the presentation anyway.

Not an attractive performance in public service or global husbandry. Shame on him.

We have a list of excellent Democrats a mile long who can help Obama get elected and then help him govern. We'll take Powell's endorsement if it comes but we don't need him otherwise.

Than that Republican.

Oh well, didn't hurt to ask.

Still waiting.

A repub is a repub. Period. Yes, I'm partisan. Why else would I be on this site?

He helped start this war. I don't care if he was just 'doing his job'. If he knew what he was doing was wrong he should have resigned and spoke out.

Instead thousands of our soldiers and even more Iraqi Civilians are dead because of those lies!

Powell played no small part in getting the U.S. into Iraq. In the run-up to that invasion, Powell was showing slides of satellite photos that (allegedly) depicted this and that.

If there's any interest on the part of the Obama camp to make their VP candidate a person with a strong military background, look no further than Wes Clark.

Especially ones who carried the Bush lies to the UN to help get the Iraq war.

Oh he's qualified? Bullshit my ass!


He isn't even qualified to shine Obama's shoes.

that it wouldn't be the first time a mistake was made, but with Obama I feel it there's no room for this sort of bad judgement.

Meaning that Lieberman wasn't quite the douchebag he is today

He's the kind of mess I want Obama to clean up. I sure as hell don't want to hand him the keys to Cheney's man-sized safe.

We should be indicting Powell.

He's out.