Boy is this gonna kill me....

But telling a large crowd of people that your wife could win a beauty contest (and mine sure could), isn't 'sexist'. It's showing that you are proud of your wife.

Now, as a Presidential candidate, I'd think I'd be a bit more savvy about the venue. Therein is McCain's failure.

But if I announced to a large crowd that my gal, or if my gal announced to a large crowd that I, could win a 'hotness' contest... I'd be hard-pressed to see that as anything less than adulation by my S/O or vice-versa.

Yes, McCain is a shithead, and he fumbled his attempt very badly, but nonetheless, it's hard to see what he said as 'sexist' in and of itself, rather than the totally inappropriate attempt at machismo in front of the wrong crowd that it was.

I would not hesitate to show pride in my wife (and I have pics to back it up), but I would certainly consider the venue first... especially if I were running for President. Therein lies McCain's failure.

well, you know.

Thanks though. ;)

but also if it had been Obama, Rush, O'Lielly, Buchanan, et al would be raking him over the coals for it, so I have no problem with people criticizing McCain for it.

You're right... they let it go when otherwise they would have crucified Obama if he said;

"So... I hear there's some kind of beauty contest tonight. Well... Michelle {indicating off-stage... pause}, oh, ok... nevermind."

{crowd cheers for Michelle}

Hell ya... he'd be lambasted.

a group of drunken ogling men who will judge her appearance including her T & A.

I talked about considering the venue.

The same consideration you just mentioned...

Right?

Basically he told the crowd - "hey, wanna see my wife naked?"

If it were me, I'd be just a teeny bit peeved. Especially in front of THAT crowd. Did you hear 'em revving their motorcycles? Whew...

That point is inarguable.

But he was 'trying' for 'proud hubby' where and how he shouldn't have been.

In this case, he was more dumbfuck than sexist... even though he's still basically sexist.

He is both a sexist pig, and a dumbfuck one at that.

I'll have to counter with; "He's a sexist pig and a dumbfuck, but he's also a raging fucktard, a despotic warmonger, and an imbecile."

What do you have to say to that?

volunteer their wives for a topless "beauty" pageant....I'll agree with you.

Otherwise this is just one in a string of stupid suck up's by McSame that hardly needed to be said anyway.

If Hugh Heffner ran for President... then I'm sure he'd have the yarbles.

Otherwise, I addressed the stupid in the OP.

and surely wouldn't advertise himself through his spouses boobs.

He has integrity... to hell with BS morals.

Sturgis was a good move

I don't see how that is showing pride in your wife...

Thanks.

The whole handling of Sturgis here is reprehensible... real Republican-level stuff. Not the "good-politics" republican political stuff, but the "for internal consumption" Free Republic style recreational hatefulness.

Whenever people say it's not about the sex, it's about the sex.

And posting that Cindy McCain has a fat ass is about the fun of saying some woman you don't like has a fat ass.

It's always, "Well THEY do it to us." Yes, they do. But THEY are not here. This is just a bunch of Democrats passing around pictures of a naked woman with some cellulite on her ass labeled "Cindy McCain is having fun at Sturgis."

LOL!

Equivalent to poking a stranger in a bar in the ribs and telling him to check out how nice your wife's ass is.

I know some people find that sort of thing charming, but I find the whole "Hey, would you like to beat off to images of my wife?" thing pretty creepy.

Proposing that had the situation been different, it would have been OK, just doesn't work logically. Remarking that a spouse or partner is beautiful is one thing. McCain's titillating suggestion that his wife should be named Miss Buffalo Chip in front of that crowd is quite another.

my wife while not beautiful in the clasic sense has a beauty i have always found more heady than anything produced in hollywood
and to me she would win any true beauty contest
eye of the beholder and all that

...and a "show us your RACK!" contest, where the winning contestant is invariably the one who shows off as much of her naked body as possible.

If you think Obama would ever publicly suggest Michelle could win the equivalent of a Wet T-shirt contest (without the water), you simply don't know Obama.

Unless you read the OP. I think he'd want to say she could win. I think he'd want to 'give her a boost'... but I'm sure that he'd pick the right venue and/or phrasing.

McLame just fucked it up royal.

but it is beyond disrepectful for Cindy McCain. The only thing missing from McCains volunteering her....is that he didn't call her the "C" word while he was at it.

I don't think it shows he is proud of her, I think it shows that he will pander his family now just like he did when he was running against the dope in the WH.

Could you imagine if Obama did that? The MSM would be all over that...we would be hearing it every minute on the minute.

Finally, it simply wasn't very "Presidential"!!

it was very disrespectful and in no way equates to being proud of her beauty.
It's just another example of how McCain has used her throughout his political career.

and they both know it.

because she is beautiful/sexy/hot? you are proud of your wife because you could announce to a large crowd that she could win a beauty contest?

I'll tell you if you're being sincere.

perplex-edly sincere.

"being proud of" your partner baffles me. Is your wife something you 'possess'? or that you have created? Is she a 'catch' that you feel makes you somehow superior to someone with a less "hot" partner?- Will you still feel the same "pride" in the person who she is as she ages, or becomes disfigured?

If you are saying that your wife has a beautiful body, that is kind of different than saying you're "proud" of her isn't it? Would you say you were ashamed of her if she were disturbing to look at? This is important when put into the context of John McCain, given the fact that he was married to a "model"- and when she no longer fit the role of 'arm candy'- he dumped her- for a woman who was a 'rodeo queen'- as well as being very wealthy and having connections to powerful people.-

I find that fact about McCain alters his "offer" to put her up as a kind of 'show bitch' - I see him different from some guy who loves his wife, who recognizes her physical beauty as ANOTHER aspect of her which he admires, but as something others would be able to see without his pointing it out. Cindy is a willing participant in her pimping- that doesn't make the actions of this bankrupt old man any more acceptable.


IMO-

I am interested in your answer- :hi:

Humans are basically very simple creatures. The vast majority of our beliefs and actions are based on any variety of insecurities. Most of those insecurities are over one's perceived 'value', for in any primitive society, one's 'value' is directly linked to survival and security. These days, survival is a little less of a direct concern when it comes to one's value to society, but security is still tied to value.

Materially speaking, people will seek security through wealth and power. Money handles all material (and some immaterial) needs, and power, on many levels, is insurance against becoming victimized.

If you look at various powerful and wealthy individuals and examine how they came to acquire their status, you'll find that the majority of them were far more insecure people than those for whom the acquisition of wealth and power were not the highest priorities.
On a side note; one of the reasons we have such a gun culture in this nation is because Americans tend to feel very insecure. Weapons are the simplest forms of power, and relatively easy to acquire.

Another way that value equates to security, aside from wealth and power, is usefulness. With usefulness comes a form of power as well. In a society, Doctors, for instance, are considered very useful. We treat them as valuable because they can directly influence the quality and duration of life. That value is then expressed through compensation, which is why most doctors have a measure of wealth.

So, in a society, value and security are linked. But value doesn't end at wealth, power, and usefulness. One's self-value addresses that same sense of insecurity that we all share at different levels. While a doctor is shown his value in a society by that society's demands and remuneration for his skills, we have other ways of feeling valuable as well. For males, and this goes back to our australopithecine days, having the most attractive, virile, and sought-after female is an outward relection of value. It means that there is some quality he possesses that makes him 'more valuable' than the other men that weren't chosen by the most desirable female. That outward representation of value makes the male more 'secure' at least psychologically, if not in other ways as well (which I could get into, but I've gone on long enough) Suffice it to say, the same goes for women, but some of the factors are a little different.

Nonetheless, the need to perceive one's partner as having 'special' qualities is based on an inherent need for security. With a sense of value, one tends to feel more 'secure'.

Yeah, I know that's a long way to go to get around to saying; "Having an attractive, talented, intelligent S/O makes you feel better about yourself.", but it's important to recognize the hard-wired need to feel valuable in a society.

Being fully aware of that, I can say that my having pride in my wife is certainly based partly on feeling good that an attractive woman chose to be with me. But attractive certainly isn't enough, as I recognize that 'attractive' isn't enough value all by itself.

She's also the only human being I've ever known of who can nail 'Lucia di Lammarmoor/Diva Dance' techno opera from 'The Fifth Element' without the digital remastering they needed to enhance the voice of the actual international opera star who sang it for the movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E33Nt8f6UwI&feature=related (couldn't find just the song... it's the whole scene)

THAT is talent. I hope to get her into a studio someday too.

She can beat me in chess... if she works at it.
She loves to dance.
She's educated and accomplished.

She's just plain great.

That does make me feel pretty good about myself, but I have plenty of reasons to feel good about myself as it is. Some people really don't feel good about themselves unless they 'get the hot chick', and that's pretty sad.

I don't feel 'superior' just because I have an attractive wife with great qualities, nor would I feel 'inferior' if she wasn't. Is my describing her necessarily a way of making myself 'look' better to others? Not anymore than my simply saying that I'm a pretty lucky guy.

Was that a sufficient enough answer, or did you want me to be more specific?

I'd be embarrassed if my husband said such a thing. To me, it would not be a nice compliment.

McCain's is not the kind of judgment we want in a diplomatic setting. Sheesh!

No, nothing sexist there...

Thanks.

Attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles.

Cindy McCain is not spoken to and she does not speak. She stands by the side of her husband who is running for president and instead of discussing all the reasons why he thinks she would be a good First Lady, he decides to suggest she enter a "beauty pageant".

Is this how we want our daughters to be treated?

now-- taking every little quote, pulling it out of context, and arguing to the death over it.

(It's the downside of YouTube, blogs, and every idiot being able to voice an opinion.)

We've arrived at a point where we look for every possible ulterior meaning or motive while overlooking the much more simple intentions... just for the sake of 'coloring' the competition.

No, I can't call it 'wrong'. It is competition on a broad, large, unwieldy scale with a level of abandon consummate with the level of ambition that accompanies the quest for such lofty goals... so it is understandable.

But it is nonetheless crude, and lacking a certain civility that any rational and reasonable society would deserve.

So then the question becomes; 'What are we?'.



I imagine that you also have read "The Assault on Reason". If not... I highly recommend it.

one or two phrases or visuals that capture the public imagination. I don't remember the psychobabble defintion for it but it does work.

Voting machines in the Chicago River and long-dead Irishmen voting in Boston helped Kennedy, but the kicker was Nixon's 5 o'clock shadow in that debate. Made him look like the crook he said he wasn't and the public couldn't, or wouldn't, shake the impression.

To his dying day, Goldwater never forgive Bill Moyers for that little girl and her daisy. That commercial still gives me the shivers, and it gave Johnson the White House.

Reagan's acting background gave him the edge that didn't need a commercial-- his "Morning in America" and "There you go again..." stuck like glue and wiped out the opposition.

"I knew John Kennedy, and you're no John Kennedy..." might have made it if it wasn't a VP candidate saying it and the Willie Horton ad that could be called Goldwater's Revenge.

This year, both candidates are desperately looking for the magic bullet that will carry them through November, and it looks like they'll keep looking until election day. Our problem is that we're taking all this nonsense all too seriously. The election is serious, but campaigning in America has always been a time of ribald fun. Until now.

And, yeah, "Assault on Reason" is on the long list, but it's another update on another long list I have read, beginning with "The Natural History of Nonsense."

In the exact same way you would see faux outrage from the right if Obama had done the exact same thing.

I am glad Obama sticks to the actual issues.

A) He read the statement (whoever wrote it is probably gone from the campaign now)
B) He doesn't Google.

I would think that someone would have known/should have known the venue and a bit of the history.

How does this happen?

like much of this entire presidential campaign. But I guess Americans are just too dumbed down to be interested in anything issue related. x(

Very weird post!!!

Congrats!

:toast:

THAT's McCain's failure in this instance. His comments were prepared ahead of time. McCain wasn't fumbling and speaking spontaneously about his wife. Proud of her? He was trying to score points with the crowd is all. The whole thing was idiotic.

I'm just saying that the simple act of claiming one's own wife can win a beauty contest is not sexist all by itself. Taking the venue and calculated comment into account does open just that door though.

Or are you one of those people who believe that all Beauty contests are evil?

Here's the question for you; "If a man's wife told a bunch of people that he could win a 'Hot Guy' contest, should that offend him?"

And yes, I'm very well acquainted with sexism, I just don't see it where it's not.

:rofl:

McMean is an idiot. Especially with "Miss Buffalo Chip." That sort of trivializes her. It'll play OK with right wingers, but most people will just roll their eyes. Cindy might win "Miss Vampire" but she's not going to win any beauty contests.

"Miss Vampire".... :rofl:

but I am still voting for him, and still think he'll win anyway. On edit: and McCain is still older than the hills so it is still much ado about nothing.

I don't think he realized it was a naked biker chick event.

Once again he spoke without thinking and made an ass out of himself.

Guess what? You are actually not the target of sexism, so please don't tell me that I ought not to be offended.

Go here if you are interested in getting some education: http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com

on edit: I just thought of a better way to say it, that's all.

You're perfectly welcome to be offended, just like you decided to be offended by something that didn't say what you want to believe it said.

Here's the jist of what I said; "nonetheless, it's hard to see what he said as 'sexist' in and of itself, rather than the totally inappropriate attempt at machismo in front of the wrong crowd that it was."

It's also quite telling that you can assume, in total ignorance, that I have never been the target of sexism. Well I have, and some of the most vile kind.

One of the things I've found about people like yourself, those being the chronic outrage-mongers, is that they employ a blatant double-standard.

So let me ask you a question; "If a woman stood next to her S/O, and told a large group of people that he could win a 'hot guy' competition, would that be 'sexist' of her? Should he be 'offended' that she said such a thing?"

Go ahead.

I'm a'shakin.

you have it exactly backwards.

You were the one who was 'offended', not me.

I asked you a question, you responded with a childish retort. It seems you have confirmed your penchant for double-standards. Your antics do no one any favors.

But this whole Victorian-era Mullah Omar prude-fest over Miss Buffalo-chip thing just isn't working.

:bounce:

Maybe.

The only one she'll let me put online is a faceless nude showing off her tattoo... and it isn't really a quality photo.

If I posted the link, it would just show on the site... and I don't want to break any rules.

"but I would certainly consider the venue first... especially if I were running for President. Therein lies McCain's failure."

Seems we're in agreement.

Personally, I don't think a venue where the contestants deep throat bananas placed strategically in the open zipper of the emcee's jeans qualifies as a good choice. But it's not my decision, and I'm not going to fault the women who see it as a good career move, or some kind of self-fulfillment.

Having said that, McCain's choice to suggest his wife as a competitor in said contest was a phenomenally stupid one. I believe that he didn't know the full extent of the debauchery of this contest. His life has been a pretty sheltered, inside-the-beltway one for many years. He was probably given a high-level description of the event by his handlers and inferred that it was little more than a wet t-shirt contest. But given the context of his previous remarks-- that the wife he lives off is a c*nt and trollop-- his decision makes him look like the sexist piece of shit we all know he is, and a man too misinformed to be taken seriously as a presidential candidate.

If Obama were to pull the same good ol' boy act he would be called a pimp, plain and simple. We'd be reading descriptions and seeing cartoons of him in a circa 1940 zoot suit and fedora, and there would be cries of outrage from the left and right.



What's truly disturbing here is that the press is going to give McCain yet another pass on this one. What a lovely double standard they've got going.

this is apporpriate that is the question.

http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/miss_buffalo_chipgate

Miss Buffalo Chipgate
posted by Dan Savage on August 5 at 13:02 PM

We’re wasting our time beating up on John McCain for suggesting that his leathery ol’ wife should participate in a topless/bottomless beauty pageant.

Yes, Obama couldn’t say it—but then Obama isn’t a notorious ladies man and adulterer that dumped his first wife when she went and got all ugly and shit.

More to the point, and setting aside the issue of race, people think it’s cute when the elderly pretend that they’ve still got it and say mildly racy (not racist!) things about their leathery ol’ spouses. These comments would be interpreted very differently if Obama made them not because Obama is black (or a Democrat) but because Obama is young and virile and his wife is a total fucking fox. If Obama had suggested that Michelle enter a topless beauty pageant we would be forced to actually conjure up mental images of Michelle taking part because Michelle could. (And she could win.) When McCain says it about Cindy, we don’t picture Cindy entering the contest because she couldn’t and, on the off chance that she did, she certainly wouldn’t win it.

People don’t perceive sexual heat, or sexual tension, in McCain’s marriage and therefore they don’t perceive any in his comments. The people in that crowd—and the people watching the clip on YouTube—interpret them like this: “Hey, the old dude still thinks his old wife is hot—awww, isn’t that cute?”

Democrats and progressives straining to make an issue of this by playing “if Obama said it!” are making a mistake. We’re not the party of idiotic, knee-jerk prudery and we look ridiculous when we pretend that we are.

Dan's right about the cute and cuddly part. My husband's grandmother is 95 years old and after a long period of widowhood, she has a boyfriend (age 92). It's readily apparent, however, that their relationship is pretty platonic (beyond the handholding and snuggling, and occasional mildly sexual comment, that is). That's what makes it so cute--after years without a partner, they've found each other, and they're head over heels. It's pure and sweet, like puppy love.

The relationship between Anna Nicole Smith and her wrinkly old geezer wasn't remotely cute, on the other hand. It was repulsive and crass, on both sides, even if they weren't "doing it". This was despite the fact that ANS was considered a hottie. He wasn't-- the man had one foot in the grave. McCain's statement conjures up an image much closer to this than that of the elderly couple in true love.

If John McCain were a cute and cuddly oldster, people might think it sweet when he said mildly sexual things about his leathery ol' spouse. But John's not cute and cuddly, and his wife, while leathery and pulled tighter than a drum, isn't that old. If his wife were Barbara Bush perhaps his statement would work in the way Savage described (but maybe not-- shudder). Beyond that, this wasn't a mildly sexual statement-- the "pageant" McCain was referring to is over-the-top raunchy. His statement serves only to remind people that he cheated on his first wife with a hot, younger chick, and that it was about sex, sex, sex for him then, as it probably is now. I don't care how many times a week McCain is having sex, nor with whom, but I don't want to hear about it any more than I want to hear about the sexual exploits of any other president or candidate. It wasn't cute then-- why should it be considered cute now?

I'd much prefer my husband tout my other qualities: intelligence, empathy, humor etc., rather than suggest I participate in something as inane and pointless as a beauty contest.

This is a Sturgis crowd. Any contest for women would involve mucho sexual innuendo and nudity. We aren't talking anything that a presidential candidate's wife should be associated with in any way. This isn't the guys at the local pub.

The hair, the eyes... *shudder*

So patriotic!
:rofl:

you're talking to, just go for the machismo 'check out my wife'.

:wtf:

How does that qualify him to be president?

He's an idiot.

The "venue" is sexism personified, although I said before and I'll say it again, in the unlikely event I or any of my daughters took our clothes off for a contest or a public sexual performance, "Miss Buffalo Chip" it ain't going to be.

That's cow shit for pity's sake.

LOL

Wow.

Here's the thread for you; http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6586217


Meanwhile, yes, I'm quite proud of my wife and would not hesitate to claim she could win any number of contests. I just wouldn't do it there because I have better judgment than McCain.

What's your problem with that?

.

Are you just here to irritate people?

Or did you actually have a point to your post?

If you read it, you'd know the answer.

Cheers.

Venue is relevant, and so is the nature of the "pageant".

1. He didn't have any idea what he was volunteering her for and thus looks like an uninformed dipshit by offering her up for toplessness, being doused in beer by hundreds of men, and simulating fellatio on a banana. I mean, hello, it's STURGIS.

2. He DID know what he was volunteering her for and is a total misogynistic douchey asshole for doing so.

Either way, I find myself more and more actually feeling sorry for Cindy for being chained to that walking boil on the ass of humanity.

I really think she just might be the ice-queen from hell.

I'm not sure of it, but I'm thinking that maybe it's McCain we should feel sorry for.

This wasnt a beauty contest. Its fine if you are proud that your wife can be in or win a "beauty" contest. BUT, to offer up your wife in a Tit and Ass contest with extra points for how good you can deepthroat a bananna is UNACCEPTABLE. And, I doubt you would defend that.

I'm just saying that the intention was possibly earnest... even if the act was idiotic.

I didn't see anything wrong with what he said,

but was excited to see what all the up tight Christian McCain supporters would think of it.

nahhh not gonna go there.