TIME: Have the Clintons Gotten Over It?

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1830119,00.html

Have the Clintons Gotten Over It?
Wednesday, Aug. 06, 2008 By KAREN TUMULTY


The July 31 cocktail reception outside Palo Alto, Calif., had been billed as an evening for letting bygones be bygones, a coming together of Hillary Clinton's Silicon Valley backers with Barack Obama's to help the New York Senator retire her campaign debt. But as Clinton took questions from the 150 or so people who had paid $500 and up a head to listen, it became clear that the healing process was far from over. "For so many of my supporters, just like so many of Barack's supporters, this was a first-time investment of heart and soul and money and effort and sleepless nights and miles of travel," Clinton said. "You just don't turn it off like that."

Those comments — now playing in clips on YouTube—speak to not only the bruised feelings of Clinton's many supporters. Embedded in those remarks, say friends and advisers, are hints of Clinton's own feelings in the aftermath of a race in which she fought so hard and still fell short. In public, Clinton is doing everything she is asked — and then some — to help the man who defeated her get elected to the White House. She raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for Obama from her extensive network of donors and has spoken to many of the groups, including key unions, that backed her in the primaries. She is set to hit the campaign trail on his behalf, starting with rallies and voter-registration drives this month in Nevada and Florida. "I'm doing all I know to do," she insists.

But behind the united front, says an adviser, "it's not a great relationship, and it's probably not going to become one." In private conversations, associates say, Clinton remains skeptical that Obama can win in the fall. That's a sentiment some other Democrats believe is not just a prediction but a wish, because it would prove her right about his weaknesses as a general-election candidate and possibly pave the way for her to run again in 2012. Clinton is also annoyed that Obama has yet to deliver on his end of an informal bargain, reached as part of their truce, that each would raise $500,000 for the other. "Hillary has done her part in that regard," says an adviser. "Obama has not."

Underlying it all is a feeling on Clinton's part that Obama has never shown proper regard for a campaign she believes was as historic an achievement as his. True, Obama has asked Clinton to give a prime-time speech on the second night of the convention later this month. But as the odds that she will be Obama's running mate have faded, there are signs that Clinton's backers could demand one last show of respect before Obama claims the nomination in Denver. Clinton has been giving tacit encouragement to suggestions that her name be placed in nomination at the convention, a symbolic move that would be a reminder of the bruising primary battle. "No decisions have been made," Clinton said when asked in California — to whoops and applause — about that possibility. Still, it was hard to miss what Clinton would like to see in the pointed way she added, "Delegates can decide to do this on their own. They don't need permission." Some of her allies are not so enthusiastic about that kind of gesture. Says Florida Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz: "We really need to focus at the convention on unifying the party behind Senator Obama."

Meanwhile, if Hillary Clinton's feelings are still bruised, her husband's are positively raw. The former President is particularly resentful of suggestions—which he believes were fueled by the Obama camp—that he attempted to play upon racial fears during the primaries. Not helping is the fact that Obama has yet to follow up on the tentative dinner plans he and Bill Clinton made at the end of the primary season. "It's personal with him, in terms of his own legacy," says a friend of Bill Clinton's. "And the race stuff really left a bad taste in his mouth."

Bill Clinton's resentment came through in an interview with ABC News during his recent trip to Africa. Asked what regrets he might have about his role in his wife's campaign, he bristled and then shot back, "I am not a racist. I never made a racist comment." He struggled to render a positive comment about Obama's qualifications for his old job. "You could argue that nobody is ever ready to be President," Clinton said. "You could argue that even if you've been Vice President for eight years, that no one can ever be fully ready for the pressures of the office." Pressed again, he responded with an endorsement that could hardly have been a weaker cup of tea: "I never said he wasn't qualified. The Constitution sets qualification for the President. And then the people decide who they think would be the better President. I think we have two choices. I think he should win, and I think he will win."

Mindful of the lingering bitterness, the Obama camp has tried to reach out to the sizable professional political class that has surrounded the Clintons for a generation. In late July, for instance, the campaign hosted what was by all accounts a well-received session at former Senator Tom Daschle's downtown Washington office for about 50 of the Clintons' most prominent backers. But it was telling that only a handful of their leading female supporters showed up. Will a genuine reconciliation ever occur? Said a longtime Democrat with a foot in both camps: "Yes, but only at the convention." Democrats worried about unifying the party before November are hoping that's not too late. — With reporting by Mark Halperin / New York City

getting angry. Give me your analysis of why the Clintons are doing what they're doing.

They may go with the formality of Hillary being on the first ballot. Obama is fine with this.

My analysis of why they are doing what they are doing: Because they are good and loyal Democrats. That is why they are doing what they are doing (campaigning for and supporting Obama).


________________________________________________________
But you know what Bab? I'm tired of the fighting. I am tired of seeing the Clinton bashing every day all day here. I would feel the same if Edwards or Biden etc were the target of it. When I see it, I feel as though I need to defend it. Think of it this way, if Obama had lost, how would you feel coming to Du everyday and seeing lies, assumptions and gleeful bashing of him in every other thread? Would you feel the need to defend him? I think you would.

I am not hurt by her loss. I am hurt by the venom shown to a good liberal Senator on this board. People think I was some long time Clinton supporter. She was my 4th choice. Obama is now my 5th by default. I just cannot stomach the way good Dems are ripped apart here.

I'm going to go back to putting everyone doing that sort of thing back on ignore for my own sanity and blood pressure. I never should have cleared it in the first place. I assumed it would stop after the primary. I was wrong.

The last thing I will say to you is this: Actions like this drain any any sort of passion or excitement out of this election for many people. Many are like me, they will vote for Obama, but the in ground game they are sticking to campaigning for local Democrats.

I wish you well, I just can't and won't fight with you any longer.

wouldn't be having a discussion. You can blame what's going on on me or anyone you want other than the Clintons, but you aren't being realistic.
I'm tired, too, trust me. I thought we had put this all behind us in June. I'm not the one fanning the flames, the Clintons are.

You are buying into a MSM manufactured fight. That's all I have left to say about it. I'm just done.

Hillary is campaigning for Barack while he's on vacation and writing WSJ Op-eds that rip Shrub apart at the seams.

You're sitting at a computer in your house retyping idiotic MSM stories that are designed to create a story where there is none.

So who's acting like real Dems again?

:thumbsup:

read the stories about Hill at the convention. Good for you for defending them. I might when they deserve it.
In fact, I'm very glad Senator Clinton is campaigning for Obama. Not so impressed with Bill.

And FWIW, turn on your tv if you think I'm fabricating anything.

He is a problem.

Notice that they launch this mess this week, just before Hillary is supposed to be helping some.

These things don't happen accidently. The Clintons are notorious for using their media toadies like Bill Press to put out their newest scheme or scam.

of pro-Clintonistas in them. Hmmmm....shall I make a list? Let's see...

1. Bob Johnson, former BET head responsible for peddling the most despicable images of black people
2. Gerri Ferraro, Faux Noise Commentator
3. Lanny Davis, Faux Noise Commentator
4. Harold Wolfson, Faux Noise Commentator
5. Wolf Blitzer, Clinton News Network Shill
6. Mark Green, President of Air America who stiffles any critique or criticism of the Clinton camp

But let me get this straight, to point this out is to bash the Clintons when every indication is that they are surreptitiously undermining our presumptive Democratic nominee through veiled threats, urging surrogates to stage protests, etc.

I totally agree with you. Spot on!!

The Clintons start shooting off with their mouths in the hopes that they
can instigate a war at the convention, but it's YOUR fault. I'm with you
sister. Cheers for posting this and deflecting the attacks by some hostile
posters.

realize how badly the Clinton's are acting.

After his talk with Gore, Howard threw himself into supporting Kerry. He did everything he could to heal the rift with his supporters and the Kerry campaign, then he asked himself how he could help the party.

That is why I admire Dean immensely, and why I have a problem with Bill and Hillary's behavior.

Hillary still wants to be lauded. Its all about acknowledging her, not about winning the Presidency.

I shake my head in disgust.

Hillary wasn't my choice either but I get sick of the constant attacks on Clintons and that articles by known McCorporate Media Whores are used to spread the rumors.

Just like the rumors about Obama's Veep pick. We know that his choice will be guarded until he decides to announce it..yet talking head pundits and M$M print writers keep speculating.

The viciousness against Hillary by those who never wrote a decent article about either of them is just spreading more crap to cause disruption amongst Democrats. The gleeful way it's pass on here on DU is disappointing now that the Primary is over.

Thanks for saying it.

the Presidency. Some Obama supporters do not think that they are doing this with enough enthusiasm and accuse the Clinton's of trying to undermine Obama. They are basing many of their assumptions on reports from anonymous sources and misrepresentation of remarks made by the Clinton's. The media is pushing any signs of dissent that they can find or manufacture because that increases their audience. It appears to be working.

Those who are making the loudest claims against the Clintons overlook the fact that both Senator Clinton and President Clinton have said that they will do whatever is asked of them by the Obama campaign. In fact, Hillary has endorsed Obama and has asked her supporters to do the same. She has appeared with Obama and has made appearances on his behalf with more rallies scheduled for the near future. I don't know how Obama plans to utilize President Clinton in his campaign, but I'm sure that he will do whatever he is asked to do by the Obama campaign.

This was a historic Democratic primary race, passions ran high and some people are not willing to let it go easily. We all need to step back, take a deep breath and then go forward with the goal of electing Obama. Our country depends on it. We cannot afford to be bickering among ourselves and let the Republicans slip into office again.

If you think that is helpful by any stretch of the imagination, I say you are delusional.

The MSM is shaking their head ruefully at Bill, knowing that he still wants his ass kissed and wants the respect he is ENTITLED to.

I have a problem with Bill's answer in the latest ABC video. Had his wife's name been involved instead of Obama's, don't you think he would have answered differently? He has said he would do anything, and he's done nothing. They've talked once?

And this convention stuff; it may be standard fare, but it's annoying and doesn't represent Democratic unity, which would also be nice to show the country. I don't understand the motivation. Then again, there's lots of attitudes I'm not understanding from supposed Dems.

There were a few locked yesterday. Today is a new day.

there's good reason to be concerned about what's going on with The Clinton's. It would appear they want to go out full guns a blazing vs really supporting Barack Obama.

If Obama was considering Hillary for Veep, I would hope that after Bill Clinton's interview the other day, any thought of that would be dead in the water now.

their behavior justifies every word on DU written about them

:hi:

This was mistakenly locked earlier. If Time is running stories dated August 6 that "re-hash the primaries," we should be allowed to discuss them here.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

This is my second day and I've already seen a thread locked (and everyone predicting it would be). So I asked why. It seems that it's considered non-productive (as if any of this was more than entertainment) if you express dismay about the Clintons.

today and has nothing to do with the primaries. They are Dems, and what the Clintons do has an effect on Obama. We should be talking about it.

That thread got locked as a primary rehash, as this one probably will be also.

I wish the administration would suspend some of these primary warriors for a while.

One seemingly innocous quote from Hillary herself about the fact that its hard for some of her supporters to simply move along from the primaries, and all of a sudden the Clintons are suddenly determined to throw a monkey wrench into Obama's campaign.

Are you kidding me? Give me a break.

He stays the constitution sets the requirements that all you need is to be 35 years old and a natural born citizen.

Wow, what an endorsement that is! NOT.

This is a first for them.

It's easy to be gracious when one is winning, but you really learn a lot about people when they are faced with a loss.

gave a more direct answer when asked about Obama's qualifications.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jNTTI1NN1R-1E0Gn4mVVljzUgSwg

:wow:

Mr. and Mrs. Drama Queen never grow weary of flashing their asses by being unreasonable and self centered. You'd think by now they would have fed from the party trough long enough to sustain them, but that's not true.

Eventually, perhaps as soon as the second week of November, we'll be rid of the Clintons as the albatross our party has had to carry around its neck for so long.

,just makes me more motivated to work in whatever way I can to counter them. Their job is to raise questions, create doubt, and spur conversation, from anything that they think will make ratings and money. The primary battle garned tremendous attention, and my default expectation is to milk to EVERY degree possible. I expect that as much as I expect a cougar/puma to attack me if I run into one. I'd suggest just looking into it from that lens and work to counter that (partially from what we're doing right now using new media/blogs/discussion forums and ground work volunteering)

When known Clinton toadies hop out simultaneously croaking similar tunes, you know the Clintons have put them up to it.

The only full two term Democratic President in the last 64 years...

That's some albatross.

He put himself back into the news, in a very detrimental way.

I would love it if there were no controversy...but he can't help himself.

He is more interested in himself than in the Democrats winning the Presidency. I consider that criminal.

for the story....

And are like children throwing a temper tantrum demanding attention. Part of me wants to ignore them, but I worry that if we do not keep shining the light on this bullshit, they may actually try something VERY divisive in Denver. We cannot have that. This bullshit needs to end. Today. They need to STFU, fall in line, and stop making EVERYTHING ALWAYS ABOUT THEM!!!

bingo

That, my dear, is the whole fucking problem.

We are Democrats, not Clintoncrats. When Bill's presidency/legacy(?) is further down the trail of history the Democratic Party will be alive in one form or another. It is the desire of many to have that form be more in line with 'old school' Democratic Party principles...you know, the ones before 'triangulation' (which, not accidentally rhymes with strangulation) and the 'republicanization' of the party. Of course, it is the desire of many to achieve the success of Bill Clinton via the same means employed in the '90s.

In reality, this is not even about Obama and/or the Clintons...it is about you and me and all Democrats trying to establish what went wrong, when it went wrong, and how are we going to fix it. After all, jr.-cheney-et al did not get where they are by virtue of the Republicans alone. The complicity of our own democratic 'leaders' belies the truth that many will not or cannot address: something rotten has been allowed to fester within the soul of the Democratic Party. The 'golden years' of the '90s are glowing in retrospect, yet some of the truths of the '90s are glossed over: Clinton winning in '92 as much because of Perot as his own popular strength; the expansion of offshore 'outsourcing' of jobs and industries; the loss of Congress thanks in some part to the Party's main, if not sole, focus on the Executive branch as the power center; the total loss of momentum as an 'opposition party' once the RW Repubs got in.

I am not blaming this on the Clintons. I am blaming us. We all loved Bill...and rightfully so. But that was then. THEN will not bring us to a new NOW. We cannot reclaim the Party, we cannot restructure its leadership, direction and goals, we cannot fight the power of the rightwing, especially the rightwing that has contaminated our party, by continuing the path started in the late '80s that went so far astray by the end of the '90s. The end of the '90s....

Obama might not be THE answer....he might not bring us to the point we all (or most or many) want to get to...but the Clintons' time is fading, not finished, but fading...and it is time to move on.

one note: We have a Supreme Court to worry about and that should receive a lot more attention than anyone seems to mention.

since it's all OVER the news, both in print and on teevee.

Both Clintons could put a stop to these stories. Hillary could say she does not want her name in nomination and wants the PUMAs to cease and desist. Bill could just shut up if he can't say something wholly supportive of Obama.

They love throwing Obama off message and making him and everyone pay attention to their petulance.

I'm done with both of them. I wouldn't send her money unless she agreed to leave the country.

But my money is going to the nominee.

Since the Clintons could diffuse this situation with a very few well chosen words, I'm suspicious of their intentions.

But, hey, we're not supposed to discuss this here, according to all the locked threads last night.

She got 18 million votes, of which about 4 million were Republicans voting for her because they wanted to run against her and hurt our party by helping her. Another 4 million were DINOs who never vote for the Democrat in the fall election. Most of the remainder were default votes for the "don't want Obama" crowd. She might have had 1 million really serious supporters, and they could retire her debt by sending $30 each, but they are not going to do that, because they'd rather have the $30. It's that simple.

Her "support" is illusory.

By your logic, she should be no more relevant than any other politician.

to the speculation by saying she won't have her name put in nomination and if she instructed her delegates to vote for Obama, the matter would be settled once and for all.

When she does that, I will even donate to help retire her campaign debt. I have no hatred for the Clintons and only wish them well.

From now until the election is over.

If, and only if, Hillary is a completely dedicated soldier the next three months should we address her campaign debt at all. Even then, we should work to retire it not immediately, but over the next four years. That means she will have to be well behaved the entire first term Obama is president.

She doesn't get help on her debt until she proves she is a dedicated, tireless team player. Otherwise, she can eat that debt.

that proves she is a dedicated, tireless team player. That's the bar that she has to clear in order to get a donation from me.

And on further consideration, I think that her debt can wait to be addressed after the GE. I don't know why there would have to be a rush to take care of it now. Once again, you are correct Texas Observer. I bow to your greater wisdom in this matter. :)

I guarantee you that if Hillary did as we expect, I would be happy to help her retire some debt, but I promise that I will never lift a finger if she gives anything less than 100% the next three months.

If Hillary really wanted to impress right now, she'd demonstrate that she can control her mouthy husband and her renegade supporters. She would publicly lecture him and them, and put an end to this rear guard action being run in her name. She would publicly say "I've had a talk with Bill, and I think he'll be more committed to this election than he has been."

By slapping Bill and the PUMAs into line, she would cement her commitment to the party this fall, and she would put a stop to the sabotage being done in her name.

yesterday, though. I guess there's some sort of march for Hillary during the convention. And I thought, fine. A few folks will show up and it won't be a big deal. But then they said it was to be preceded by a festival in downtown Denver. That word festival bothers me.

Hillary's delegate base is much smaller than it was two months ago. They've abandoned ship. They're NOT going to foul their relationship with the new power in the party so Hill can feel good about herself for a few hours.

It's not like I am rich, so why shouldn't I spend my money to help get Obama elected instead of sending it to the candidate who is not even running in November?

My bank account isn't a bottomless pit.

I have to say, though, that if Hillary would decline having her name put in nomination and if she instructed her delegates to vote for Obama, then I would make the sacrifice and send her some money. I could forgo some little luxury that I allow myself, like having my hair done or something, and send a bit to help pay off her debt.

All focus should be on money for Democrats running for office, not Democrats who lost in the primary and want to get out of debt.

First, a major chunk of it is owed to Jabba the Penn. He should get nothing.

Second, a major chunk is Hill and Bill's money. They should eat that. That's what they get for fighting dirty and staying in too long.

Third, only the amounts to legit third party vendors should be addressed, and that only if Hillary and Bill both keep their noses clean.

I'm beyond disappointed in the selfish, hateful, malicious bitterness we're seeing from them.

a stop to it. I can think of a few bad reasons, though, and that's worrisome.