McCain Is Not Baptized--That Will Have Them Shitting in the Pews!

Did you catch that last night on CNN right before the forum in a "run down" on McCain's religion by Dana Bash? McCain is NOT baptized. As a card carrying Christian let me tell you what that means: Remember Johnny's remark about being forgiven and saved? NO DEAL---you have to believe and be baptized! That's the rules. He even has that fucked up! Now why would a person who truly believes and is that old still not be baptized---and a member of a Baptist Church to boot!! Point blank: Johnny is like Georgie, like Georgie's Daddy, like Ronnie the Dumb---they wouldn't know the inside of a church if they fell over it, so to speak. They go there for photo ops during campaign season (in fact Bash even talked about how he takes the press along to church). When are these Christian right-wingers going to pull their crosses out of their asses and figure out these guys play them and their social paranoia like a violin (and laugh at them behind their backs)!!! Let the word go out unto the land: HE AIN'T BAPTIZED!!!

it is a big deal.

Lake of fire, eternal damnation.....

prolly twice that over lying about it.....

That's the answer for all his failings, now.

and particularly the baptists because there big thing is the waiting until later (not infant) when you really commit and are submerged. I don't know how this got by the wingers.

He NEEDS TO ADDRESS THAT RIGHT NOW! WHERE IS "John the Baptist" when one needs him. McSame needs to REPENT AND WALK IN THE WATER! BE DUNKED or at Least visit the BAPTISMAL FONT!

Waterboard him!!

Isn't that sort of the whole point?

I'm sure one of those publican worshipping churches would love to help him out.

His profile says he is Episcopalian. He would have to have had a "sprinkled" Baptism to really be an Episcopalian, wouldn't he? Or is he just lying about being an Episcopalian?

the sprinkling kind, at age of four. I think all Christian religions do baptisms, don't they?

i was raised catholic. we had to be baptized and the sooner the better. there was a place called "limbo" where unbaptized babies went if they died.

who couldn't otherwise reconcile their concept of a loving God with the notion that you had to be baptised to get into Heaven.
This concept was never doctrine and was recently ditched.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0506867.htm


On edit: the emphasis in the Catholic Church today is on Baptism as a means of joining the Church.

so what happened to all those babies who were there? i guess they were relocated to heaven.

how about the people who ate meat on friday when it was a sin? i guess if they went to hell, when the church changed that law they went with the saints and the babies.

from planetary status.

i'd probably fall on my ass if i tried to do that.

The doctor who delivered my freeper brother thought he'd die the first night, so they called the hospital chaplain in and had him baptized in the delivery room.

The prognosis was absolutely wrong, but in 1965 the Catholics were serious about the concept of limbo.

aren't all Christian baptized. I'm a Lutheran and was baptized as an infant.

Article IX: Of Baptism.

1] Of Baptism they teach that it is necessary 2] to salvation, and that through Baptism is offered the grace of God, and that children are to be baptized who, being offered to God through Baptism are received into God's grace.

3] They condemn the Anabaptists, who reject the baptism of children, and say that children are saved without Baptism.

http://bookofconcord.org/augsburgconfession.html#article9

Christian Scientists don't practice any
form of ritual. The clergy aren't even clergy,
just citizens who take turns. They need to find
a Justice of the Peace to do marriages.

Some have dedications for infants with the intent of baptism when they enter the age of understanding.

or small child, you're generally baptized. I can't imagine why his parents -- who probably were Episcopalians? -- didn't baptize him as a baby.

There was a row about how McCain didn't show up at some national Baptist convention. Let me dig around for that link.

is how they do it in my Episcopalian church here in Phoenix.

However, the criminal on the cross beside Jesus was not baptized yet we believe he was saved.

For me, baptism is something one does because one has accepted Jesus has their personal savior and baptism is one of the sacraments. However, I also believe that one can go to heaven without being baptized.

Come on now, if you've got this confused or something, I'm going to be annoyed at you!

I was watching and when she said that I about fell out of the chair. Trust me, I was raised by the pillars of the church and once engaged to a Luthern minister. This is the whole foundation of any Christian church. And, the "not baptized" was stated point blank by Dana Bash in a prepared run down she had leading into the forum (like two minutes before).

Even Liberals allow for the necessity of somekind of basic theological Christian identity.

Many of us (and I AM in this camp) do not say that whatever "heaven" is, it depends upon Baptism (because of the possibility that an non-Babptized person COULD live her life as completely according to Christian principles as possible and have something that might be called a Faith instinct, without ever having heard of Christianity), but we would say that without Baptism one is NOT Christian per se.

to welcome them into the community of Christians. It wasn't a church that preached "salvation," but it was still an important sacrament.

The Bible makes a big deal out of baptism, and I doubt you'd find a Christian church that had no form of baptism ritual.

between this and his birth certificate in panama, the guy is looking iffy.

I think the mistake that happened for mccain last night is that any real christian could see that he had no unternal understanding of the bible or what it means to aspire to be christ-like. he said "defeat" evil, he has decided who is evil (only god can do that) and that they deserve to be punished, he is vengeful and holds a grudge and is dishonest. and now

he's not baptized.

buh bye my FRIEND

You are so right about how this man has no Biblical knowledge - like I said, he's a fake who uses religion like the rest of the repuke's before him. Anyway, Obama commented that it is God's job to drive evil from this world (paraphrased). We can stand up to it, etc. but the "battle" of good vs. evil is in God's hands. McCain said "nope..I'm God and I'm going to go wipe it out". Ummm, John, why don't you start with your own party.........

as the opposite of being a real christian (as if we didn't know this already).

Not only do these hypocrites use religion for political purposes, which is right there a misuse of spirituality and power, but then they do not even bother to pretend to be a good steward of their leadership positions.

Here he is playing to the fundies and that's cool, they'll buy it, but the evangelicals and the rest of the community? not so much as he wants to believe. humility and humbleness are also big deals in evangelical churches. mcCain is a braggart.

I have a side of my family who are heavy heavy evangelicals -- I mean, they are into it - won grammys for their gospel music. I spent summers going to evangelical churches in the south, so I'm kinda familiar with their ways.

What I see that is working is as the people get to know Obama, they are liking his values. he is like them. Loves his family. works hard. cares about the same things they care about.

worshipping the cross drawn in the dirt, rather than in how the gaurd disobeyed TPB and was kind to his enemy.

http://www.google.com/search?q=is+john+mccain+baptized&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I sense this will be an Obama attack ad in after Labor Day. This is one they're probably keeping their powder dry on.

This confirms what I said in my post. His Arizona Baptist church does not recognize infant Baptism. He would have to be re-baptized to gain membership in that church.

Political Animal) JOHN McCAIN, SEMI-BAPTIST....The latest weirdness from the traveling carnival that is the Republican presidential campaign is John McCain's sudden assertion that he's not an Episcopalian, as he's always identified himself before, but a Baptist. In fact, he's been attending a Baptist church for 15 years. Only one problem: he's never been, um, baptized. "I didn't find it necessary to do so for my spiritual needs," he told McClatchy a couple of months ago. Georgia cracker Ed Kilgore comments:
Well, you'd think anyone who's been attending a Baptist Church for 15 years might have caught wind of the fact that the denomination, as its name suggests, believes rather adamantly that baptism is necessary for salvation, a reasonably important "spiritual need" by most measurements.

And no, it wouldn't cut any ice with his fellow-Baptists if it turns out that McCain, like most Episcopalians, was baptized via sprinkling as an infant. Any kind of Baptist I've ever heard of holds that only a "believer's baptism" (i.e., at an age of consent) through full bodily immersion is valid. That's why their theological ancestors in Europe were contemptuously dubbed "Re-baptizers," or "Anabaptists."

I don't know why McCain has chosen to wander into this particular thicket. But the only way out I can imagine is if he asks Huckabee to baptize him during the next candidate debate.
The June McClatchy story is here:
McCain still calls himself an Episcopalian, but he said he began attending North Phoenix Baptist because he found "the message and fundamental nature more fulfilling than I did in the Episcopal church. ... They're great believers in redemption, and so am I."
I dunno. McCain may be a Baptist, but he sure doesn't sound especially convinced about it. Still, it'd be a shame to waste all that pandering he did to Jerry Falwell last year. Baptist it is!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/17/politics/animal/main3270400.shtml

Ooo-wee!

Scooby dooby doo!

-Hoot

And if you haven't been baptized (at least once), you better be up for some eternal damnation.

I also was raised in the Southern Baptist Church. The doctrine of the church, says that salvation is attained solely by acceptance of Christ as your savior. The act of Baptism is necessary to join the church and is expected of all Christians as a public profession of your faith.

But being baptised isn't necessary for salvation.

The Baptists split with the Catholic Church, over the latters belief that baptism is required to ensure that a Christian attains Heaven. Thus the Catholic Church's baptism of infants to ensure they are admitted to heaven. Baptists believe only in adult conversion and ensuing Baptism.

Baptism was a necessary ritual.

But I gave up on that shit by the time I was six years old. I realized they were all crazy.

I was just into it for the music.

Baptism is not a "requirement" for "salvation" within Southern Baptist theology, nor has it been.

This is a common misconception because of the usage of the word "Baptist" in the name of the denomination.

Deep East Texas Southern Baptist churches were fundamentally different.

No matter the theology, the deal was that you had better be baptized. The more times, the better.

We had a bunch of folks who would get baptized once a year. It was a really big deal.

I always thought they were crazy. I baptized myself in Village Creek. My sister and myself. Then we sat on the bank and smoked a couple of cigarettes to seal the deal. We were probaly 4 and 6 years old.

This is a common misconception because of the name "Baptist". You are correct.

Remember the thief on the cross next to Jesus....he wasn't baptized and yet Christ said he would be with him in paradise that day. Didn't affect his salvation, as it were.

Polemicist is correct. Southern Baptists do not believe that Baptism in itself gives salvation. Southern Baptists believe that it is an outward sign that the individual has confessed Christ as Savior.

He was no doubt baptized as an infant and probably joined the church around 12.

He obviously has not been born again - thus no dunking or joining of the Baptist church he currently attends. Not at all unusual.

I don't know if it is "required" but I can't imagine anyone who claims to be a Baptist not being baptized! Highly symbolic in the Baptist church. Death to sin, rebirth as a Christian, washing away of sins, etc. Sprinkling wouldn't cut it in a Baptist church. Gotta be dunked, for sure.

are totally unaccepting of anything but immersion as a legitimate baptism.
It is an essential part of the process. Guess ole McCain has been attending this Baptist church, but must have never answered the altar call and formally joined because they would make him, I feel certain. (LOL Methodists just shake your hand or give you a hug, ask you if you believe, ask you if you will support the church with your prayers, presence, gifts, service and witness. If you are joining by profession of faith rather than transfer and have never been baptized then you will be baptized, right then, with a few drops of water as the font is always loaded and ready just in case it is needed).

Neither of these groups performs infant baptisms. You have to come to the acceptance of Christ etc, after having reached the age of accountability and be baptised. In their tank. In their church. Seriously some CofC churches do not accept immersion in another church's baptistry ..if you join that congregation, you must be dunked again. Or so I'm told. I visited this one church a lot with my aunt and she would pass that communion tray right over me like I didn't exist every single time. In her mind I had no right to partake because I hadn't been dunked and she didn't speak to my mother for a couple of weeks because my mother didn't have me immersed when I became confirmed in the Methodist church.

Now my sister (we were raised Methodist) married into that same congregation, 28 years ago. She attends there twice on Sunday and also Wednesday nights. It is a very very fundamentalist, non instrumental, strict church. Her husband gave up trying to get her to be re-baptised when they had been married about 5 years. As far as she is concerned, she has been baptised enough, thank you very much, end of story. She's the most conservative of the 3 of us and isn't as uncomfortable in that church as I would be because their theology would make me NUTS, but she isn't bending on this one. They gave up too and they have always allowed her to be served communion (this church refers to it as the Lord's Supper)..

I know that they all think she's going to hell because she isn't dunked but I am here to tell you I don't want any part of a heaven that thinks it is too good for her as she is a really really good woman.

But otherwise yeah, Christians are supposed to be baptized!

catholic, but had to be re-baptized when she became a born again christian.

Full immersion dunk. In water that was....let's say less than fresh....

and had a mikvah -- full submersion and stark naked.

:toast:

my sis sent me an e-mail around easter. the subject line was "happy easter from the jew to the atheist".

she still celebrates christian holidays.

and you've been baptized, you are not re-baptized. Instead you are confirmed in the Catholic Church. Someone who's pickier than us, who knew?

she was born to a jewish mother who converted to catholicism when my granddaughter was 6. she then had her baptized catholic. when granddaughter was in her 20s she became a born again. i'm an atheist who was raised catholic.

os which says "I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins." One. Uno.

John McCain's website says he was raised Episcopalian and that the McCains attend a Baptist church. It doesn't say he is a Baptist, though I'm guessing his wife is and that he was baptized in the Episcopal church as an infant.

My guess is he disagrees with the Baptist idea of having to be baptized again, maybe some other things as well, but is comfortable enough attending a Baptist church.

Sounds like a slow news day and Dana Bash not knowing what she was talking about.

it is very big. All Christian churches baptize their members. Some do it as infants (Catholic, Lutheran, etc.) others do it as adults (Baptists, fundies, etc.). Most believe that you must be baptized to be saved unless it is a deathbed conversion of a baby. If he is calling himself an Episcopalian it may just be that he goes to that church WHEN he goes anywhere. They do baptize new members so it would be strange if he was a member and not baptized. When you have the proof just let it out as it is - do not try to explain it because we want each church to see it in their own way. Time for some good research.

and elsewhere, you can read that he was raised as an Episcopalisn and the McCains attend a Baptist church.

Attending a church does not mean you belong to it.

He was an Episcopalian. How much sway that has with evangelicals or whoever, I don't know. Seems like they

have to drag you across the Mississippi or something.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/24/mccain-on-baptism-plans-its-a-private-thing/

In other words, the man attends a Baptist Church to get fundy votes, but is not a believer and is not "saved" per Baptist beliefs. My gosh, I am SO not religious and this is one reason why - I hate how religion is misused!

not count to most fundies - most of them only accept adult baptism which involves immersion - sometimes in a pool they have in their church and sometimes in a body of water. I have seen them use both ways but I know they do not accept child baptism. That is why THEY call it sprinkling. Most churches that accept child baptism call it that. To the fundies it would make a big difference if he was never immersed after accepting the offer of God's grace.

because Methodists don't do that.

I was baptized Catholic when I was a baby.

John McCain cannot be saved if he is not Baptized.

Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
http://christianity.about.com/od/baptism/Baptism.htm

I believe that McCain is a member of a Baptist church in Phoenix. Not sure if it is Southern Baptist or not. Southern Baptist churches do not permit membership unless there is a Baptism. Southern Baptists would not allow an infant Baptism. If a prospective member had been Baptized as an infant, they would have to be "re-baptized" upon entering the Baptist church.
I am not sure what McCain's status is. It seems that I heard that he was an Episcopalian before becoming a Baptist. If that is true, he may have been baptized as an infant in the Episcopal Church. If that is true, then as I said he would have had to be baptized upon entering the Baptist church. There are some liberal Baptist churches which would recognize infant Baptism. I suspect that McCain's church is not liberal.

The Arizona senator, who was raised an Episcopalian, has attended North Phoenix for nearly two decades, but is not a member because he has not been baptized into the church.

On Wednesday, he told reporters that he had been baptized in Panama, where he was born, and talked about a photo in his memoirs of himself as a baby in a baptismal gown, with his father and grandfather.
"It's like a dress," he chuckled.

But he was more guarded about his current plans with regard to baptism, calling them "a private thing."

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/363453.aspx

They refer to adult baptism as "believer's baptism" and do not consider infant baptism valid.

Why do the fundies let this old goat get away with this heresy?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/24/mccain-on-baptism-plans-its-a-private-thing/


The Arizona senator, who was raised an Episcopalian, has attended North Phoenix for nearly two decades, but is not a member because he has not been baptized into the church.

On Wednesday, he told reporters that he had been baptized in Panama, where he was born, and talked about a photo in his memoirs of himself as a baby in a baptismal gown, with his father and grandfather.

"It's like a dress," he chuckled.

But he was more guarded about his current plans with regard to baptism, calling them "a private thing."

"I've been in discussions with Pastor Yeary, and we'll continue those discussions," he said. "It's a personal thing, it's a very personal thing concerning my faith and I am proud of my faith, I am proud of my belief and the sustenance and the redemption that I have received.

;-)

Saw it in a movie, or read it in a book.

:eyes:

cause that is how they handle every story about Sen. McMedia.....

according to the links. The Baptists require him to be baptized in their church before membership but many denominations recognize baptism in any Christian Church. It's a non-issue to most who are not Baptist.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/363453.aspx

They describe his baptism gown in photos from when he was an infant. He isn't going to limbo. Now, the Baptists will say he is going to Hell, but whatever Church baptized him when he was a baby certified him as a Christian and most Americans will say that is good enough since there are so many people who do not believe in Churches in this country only in the Bible.

church without a new baptism. Not only do these not require adult baptism if one was baptized as an infant, there is a sort of ecumenical agreement among these 4 groups and the Episcopalian/Anglicans to accept each other's baptisms as valid.

I have friends who have lived several places over about 30 years of marriage and in one city they were Lutheran and in another Presbyterian and when they came to Ft Worth they became Methodists..based on what they found in the various congregations in those towns. They wanted the most liberal theology, which can vary as to which denomination has the most liberal theology ..I have lived where the Lutherans are the most liberal, or the UCC, or the UMC.

with water and using the formula "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost."

The words "Holy Spirit" can be used instead of "Holy Ghost."

I don't know if the UCC uses that formula but the others you named do, as do Catholics and Episcopalians.

Some denominations use different words and those aren't considered valid baptisms by the churches that do.

is utilitarian rather than theological. So I have no dog (god spelled backwards) in this race. But has it been definitely established, that Honest John had NOT been baptized? Just asking.

pnorman
On edit: This is what I was able to Google on that topic: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/24/mccain-on-baptism-plans-its-a-private-thing/

An infant is born a Jew if its mother is Jewish, and the males are officially "in the tribe" upon circumcision. But the BIG thing is being born of a Jewish mother.

Not so for Christians. The parents may have their infants baptized, but if McCain's parents skipped that part and if he has not done so himself, well... he has a problem with his public presentation of himself.

Hekate

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
edited to say: While I was writing, others were posting fuller information. If McCain was sprinkled as an infant, he's probably okay-enough with his claims of (ahem) piety. As others here pointed out though, he's going to have some problems explaining his lack of adult baptism to the Baptists he hangs around with.

not that there would be a single darn thing wrong with it if he was, but he's not,
as far as I know.

can you imagine someone who practices santeria running for office?

I never got baptized a second time, and I was a member of three different Baptist churches at different times. And yes, these were Southern Baptist Churches in the Bible belt... Waco, Dallas, and OKC. In Waco, when I was in college, the church's policy was that if you were joining from a different denomination, you did not have to be baptized to join. They called it the "Watch Care" program, if I recall correctly. They would look after you for your home church. Then when I joined other Baptist Churches, I just transferred membership. But granted, these three churches were liberal by Southern Baptist stanards, and I think 2 of the three dropped out of the SBC when it was taken over by the fundies.

the Baptist Universities..the most liberal of all and your church may well have gone to the moderate movement when the fundies took over the seminaries. Baylor formed its own seminary separate from the other SB ones. I would expect the church in Dallas yanked itself out too, or got kicked out of the Convention,if that is the way they do it.

Louisville Baptist used to be an approved seminary for United Methodist Ministers and now that the fundies have taken it over and run out the moderates and liberals, it is off the list I am almost certain. Presbyterian remains though and there is a UCC one in Lexington that is OK .

Don't you know that McCain cannot be exposed to water? He's under strict orders from his crack team of curators and antiquities experts not be exposed to any atmosphere that is over 40% humidity. Hence the Arizona residence.

starts to crack first? Or is it a laminate surface that peels at the edges?

and that's what that thing on his cheek is. :scared:

:thumbsup:

to prop up some more votes...wait and see...

wouldn't the christian right just eat that shit up?

i mean, the rest of us would recognize it as obviously cynical political pandering, but wouldn't they just love it if he made a major news splash (as it were) out of reaffirming his commitment to god by getting baptized?

Really, I do.

Imagine what KO and Jon Stewart (just to name two) would do with that footage.

is the whole debate of baby vs adult baptism and so forth.

But yeah, if the typical conservative evangelical hears about this and believes it, they will be freaked out.

then he was baptized. Yeah, if he wants serious brownie points now, he'll become a member of his Baptist church and get dunked, but if he publicized that, that would be pretty gross pandering, even for a republican. (He's expressed keeping those plans private and as someone who gets pretty sick of hearing politicians trotting out their beliefs like designer labels, I'm happy to hear that. Yes, keep it private. PLEASE.)

And remember--the fundies loved Bush and he was never immersed. Methodists sprinkle, too.

Not enough sodium or Flouride in it.

I am a liscened baptism water inspector. And I already checked the water they used on the fucking heathen they call John McCain.

Trust me.

It ain't up to snuff.

They need to do it all over again. Problem is that when McCain was in bush he did one too many of acid. Everytime they try to dunk that son of a bitch he trys to dunk the preacher. Kinda hard to baptize a motherfucker when he already thinks he's jesus.

actually Episcopalian but he became a Methodist by choice as an adult ..Laura was always a Methodist. So his Episcopalian infant baptism would be perfectly acceptable to the Methodist church and he needs no other ritual.

So if McCain were part of a UMC< UCC, Presby or Lutheran church this thread wouldn't even be here.

a fundie Republican challenges us on Obama.

When they try, "I heard Obama's a Muslim," we counter with:

"Hey. Your guy ain't even baptized."

I have to admit, I do like that usage.

a baptized member of his own church after 8 solid years of non-stop pandering to the fundie nutbags.

Just unbelievable.

"In an interview with Baptist Press last month, Yeary said that McCain was less open about his faith because he was "a historical Episcopalian, and if you and I sat down with him and started talking Baptist talk, he just doesn't have that kind of vocabulary."

But he also told BP that McCain "has a strong faith and he is committed to Christ. I don't have any doubt about it."


<http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/24/mccain-on-baptism-plans-its-a-private-thing/>

a flip-flop before seettilng on just one, evidently.

It's kinda hard keeping up with the guy.

He has never come before God and asked for forgiveness and accepted God as his savior. This is a big deal in the Baptist church. I find it very odd for a "church-going" 70+ year old of faith to have never accepted God into his life. Wow.

:o

Dems are above letting religion play a role in this election. Its the oldest con in the world.

So predictable, guys! :eyes: Get a new shtick.

Dems lose when they allow themselves to be distracted by irrelevant "wedge issues".

Perhaps you should spend some time studying the issues voters are really interested in. Religion isn't in the top ten. Focus on the top 3 or 5 issues, mmmkay?

If you have some evidence to prove that focusing on "wedge" issues helps Dems win presidential elections, please provide a link.

K? Thx.

Not really our business to get in the way of a family fight -- otoh, we shouldn't hinder the free flow of the truth, either, if it turns out to be true.

Hekate

not being Bap'd is the reason... a few,, but the lost votes are adding up

But caught at LYING is another vote losing factor....after all, violates Gods Law/////

This Nutcase must be kept from the Red Button...the Risk is too high

but Baptists generally don't accept infant baptisms and baptisms without full immersion.

so, yes, McCain has been baptized.

by this standard, most Christians in the world have not been baptized.

but they think they are. :eyes:

:hide:

was probably baptised as an infant.

little babies?

And I was a "dunking" Fundy... not one of these namby pamby sprinkling Fundies! I was Baptized twice! Sprinkled when I was a baby, and dunked when I was 14!


O sinners let's go down,
Let's go down, come on down,
O sinners let's go down,
Down in the river to pray.