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McCain sends out his blogger to responds to "CrossGate" - in full damage control mode.

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:00 PM
Original message
McCain sends out his blogger to responds to "CrossGate" - in full damage control mode.
Edited on Mon Aug-18-08 05:15 PM by jefferson_dem
Posted at 5:08 PM on 8/18/2008 by Michael Goldfarb
Smears the Left Can Fight For

In the least credible and most vicious corner of the internet, liberal bloggers at the Daily Kos are accusing John McCain of plagiarizing from Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. The story Solzhenitsyn told was of a prisoner who drew a cross in the dirt in a Soviet Gulag. McCain's story is of a guard who drew a cross in the dirt in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp.

The only similarity between the two stories is a cross in the dirt, but it is hardly an unlikely coincidence that there were practicing Christians in both Russia and Vietnam, or that in the prisons of those two Communist countries the only crosses to be found were etched in the dirt, as easily disappeared as the Christians who drew them.

But those desperate to discredit Senator McCain's record will have to impugn his fellow prisoners as well. Orson Swindle, who was held as a prisoner of war along with McCain, tells the McCain Report that he heard this particular story from McCain "when we first moved in together." That was in the summer of 1971, Swindle said, though "time blurred" and he couldn't be sure. He said it was some time around then that the Vietnamese moved all "36 troublemakers" into the same quarters, where they "talked about everything under the sun."

It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman's memory of war from the comfort of mom's basement, but most Americans have the humility and gratitude to respect and learn from the memories of men who suffered on behalf of others. John McCain has often said he witnessed a thousand acts of bravery while he was imprisoned, and though not every one has been submitted into the public record, they are remembered by the men who were there (one such only recently reported by Karl Rove though it escaped mention in any of Senator McCain's books). But as Swindle said, this is a "desperate group of people trying to make something out of nothing."

http://www.johnmccain.com/McCainReport/Read.aspx?guid=181471d0-5456-4434-9f78-2f30ffc39459


Sully is undeterred - http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/mccain-responds.html

Politico is on the story if you care to comment - http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Swindle_backs_McCain_cross_story.html
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Those grapes must be really sour

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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. 'practicing christians' don't cheat on their spouses or get divorced,
lie and kill people on a ship because you were trying to be a hot shot. Piss on them.
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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. "pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd" - LOL n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. "The only similarity between the two stories is a cross in the dirt"
Was there much else to McCain's story?




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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. That part made me laugh...
So the redeeming quality is that McCain isn't a bad enough liar to claim he was in a russian gulag when it happened? :wtf:

Using this logic, most plagiarism that occurs in schools shouldn't count since the students don't copy the ENTIRE stories of other authors.

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Um...Nope.
A cross in the dirt is a cross in the dirt.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. If only McCain had said "a cross in the mud."
:P
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Lol. The only similarity between McCain and Solzhenitsyn's "cross in the dirt" stories...
...was the "cross in the dirt".

:rofl:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. Yes, and it's such an insignificant detail.
:sarcasm:
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. They can't defend him on the facts so they resort to flimsy name calling
Edited on Mon Aug-18-08 05:04 PM by C_U_L8R
truth is our most powerful weapon.. and republicans' greatest weakness.
No prisoners.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh, are they trotting out Orson Swindle AGAIN??
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Some background on Mr. Orson Swindle
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Everything we do gets reflected on Obama, which is why I said
leave it be. There is no way to disprove the story. Still, kind of a funny & odd response. Few details and a lot of outrage.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. You are right, the repubs will TRY to put EVERYTHING on Obama...
no matter what anyone says or does so do you advocate sitting back, doing nothing just in case the repubs TRY to blame Obama for it, whatever it may be?

I think the opposite needs to occur. Get it ALL out there, make them defend each and every allegation, each and every question.


Keep them on the defensive while getting out the facts, the questions, the controversies.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Yep--we're not the campaign. The GOPers work by letting outside
groups smear our candidates, and then they disavow them or at least pretend they're innocent, all the while reaping the benefits. Not sure why that can't work both ways. And this isn't a smear--it's a challenge for McShame to fucking prove his story, or admit he borrowed it.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. Exactly! Put the legitimate questions out there,
each and EVERYONE of them and do it repeatedly. As to the "cross in the sand" controversy, the freepers themselves neutralized the 'blame Obama' meme given they were the FIRST to bring it up THREE years ago.


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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Because respectable worked for Kerry.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Good point mom
This will be reflected on the Obama camp... and therefore Obama himself.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. it means that it is drawing blood - time for an email campaign
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yes, its drawing blood..... Good
The real line in the sand has been drawn and it was not a cross
but calling McCain out on his lie.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. No, it means that "McCain" plus "POW" is the story McCain wants. "McCain Cheats" is the story
we should be focusing on.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Multi-tasking means the focus can be on both....
DUers are excellent at multi-tasking and taking on more than one emerging controversy at a time.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. get a grip. you focus on whatever you want. we will be busy calling McCain out on his lies.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. It still doesn't explain why McCain would tell this story in the 3rd person...
here:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904EFDE1239F93AA15751C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Many members of the audience at the forum had probably heard it, or read it in one of the many Christian books that published it and credited as being Alexander Solzhenitsyn's experience since the '70's. If it was McCain's experience as well, why wouldn't he have told it much earlier? It's quite a story, and he doesn't seem to have had any trouble revealing other deeply personal experiences from his POW days. Why did he wait until 1999 to reveal this one just before his run for President?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. The funny thing is, is that the Freepers are the one who broke this story
During the Primary :rofl:

So McCain's it your base that are the ones playing dungeons and dragons :rofl:
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. All your base are belong to us!
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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. Orson Swindle?
This Orson Swindle?
Orson Swindle (Born March 8, 1937), a decorated Vietnam War POW, was a Commissioner of the Federal Trade Commission of the United States from December 18, 1997 to June 30, 2005. He had previously served as Assistant Secretary of Commerce during the Reagan Administration.

He previously served as State Director for the U.S. Department of Agriculture. In 1994 and in 1996 he was a Republican candidate for Congress in Hawaii's 1st Congressional District. In 1996 he held the incumbent, Democrat Neil Abercrombie, to 50% of the vote.


Swindle is a Senior Policy Advisor at the lobbying firm of Hunton & Williams in Washington, DC.<2> His specific charge is within the firm’s Center for Information Policy Leadership, which was founded to “develop innovative, pragmatic approaches to privacy and information security issues from a business-process perspective while respecting the privacy interests of individuals.” Their clients include American Express, Eli Lilly, GE, Microsoft, and Wal-Mart.

Swindle is also on the board of Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW), an independent political advocacy group that seeks to eliminate waste, mismanagement, and inefficiency in the federal government. Throughout its history, CAGW has been accused of fronting lobbying efforts of corporations to give them the appearance of "grassroots" support.<3> In part, this is because CAGW has accepted donations from Phillip Morris, the Olin Foundation, the Bradley Foundation, Microsoft, Merrill-Lynch, and Exxon-Mobil. CAGW also has ties to convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff.<4> While CAGW describes itself as non-partisan, it has endorsed John McCain<5> for president and donated $11,000 to his campaign or groups controlled by him.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Swindle

I'm sure he has no reason to lie for McCain. None at all. It's not like he could owe him any favors or anything. I mean, what could a lobbyist want from a Senator or potential President?
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Then why did McCain turn around and refer to this guy as a "gook"?
Assuming this story is true (which I doubt it is).

As McCain tells it, this guy gave him hope and helped him find his faith. And McCain repays his courage and compassion by referring to he and his people as "gooks"?

Very classy.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
23. JED Report is on it as well!
http://www.jedreport.com/2008/08/sullivan-on-mcc.html

Aside from the fact that McCain is favorably disposed towards embellishing his record, here's what I think are the most compelling pieces of evidence that his story is a fabrication:

<SNIP>

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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. Excellent. This is very good... they've got this loose cannon out blogging up a storm, bashing
people he doesn't even know, showing all sorts of attitude... I love it. They look like freakin' amateurs.

Obama would NEVER let someone blog on his behalf with this type of style.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. There's Blood In the Water
Media sharks will begin circling this one now.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
27. They are scared shitless on this one. It totally undermines McAnus' POW secret weapon.
If he is caught lying about that experience, then it ceases to be an asset.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. Instead of Orson, let's ask Phillip Butler
"But those desperate to discredit Senator McCain's record will have to impugn his fellow prisoners as well. Orson Swindle, who was held as a prisoner of war along with McCain."

If McCain wants to drag out former POWs to alibi his story, then let's drag out former Navy and POW mate, Phillip Butler. He knows McCain REALLY well and he was a POW the entire time McCain was there (in fact earlier). The media should call this guy to see what he has to say.

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. K & R
God is not going to like his stealing from the cross!
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. "Dungeons & Dragons crowd"? ...LOL...McCain is stuck in the 80s
Wake up and smell 2008, Rip Van Wrinkled.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
36. Guy's ridiculous
Edited on Mon Aug-18-08 09:22 PM by autorank
Look, there's only one story like this. It's very unique. McCain made it up.

I read the blogger, what a tool.
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
37. McCain has this kind of vicious garbage on his website?
"It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman's memory of war from the comfort of mom's basement..."

I say let as many people as possible read this, because for McCain to allow it on his site under his own name speaks volumes. Clearly "the least credible and most vicious corner of the internet" is not DailyKos or DU, but JohnMcCain.com, where presidential candidates endorse hateful and juvenile smears.

He's John McCain, and he approves this message.
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