Ambien? Seriously??

I was clicking around the 'nets tonight and found a post on someone else's blog that floored me. The gist is this:



God damn it. I realize that Ambien is the drug of choice in DC (I remember posting a story where Colin Powell raved about it), but for a presidential candidate? A 72 year old presidential candidate?? Really??

Not only is McCain not physically fit to become president, but his handlers are even worse. Sending that old man out on the campaign trail while he's shaking off the effects of a drug that could make you literally forget who you are is pretty goddamned irresponsible. No wonder he fucking blanked out in Florida a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.blah3.com/article.php?story=20080818221750273

- as

Ambien knocks some people out, but for other people it just more makes them loopy and really wacked out. Either way, not a good sign for the 3 am phone call.

Want to see this discussed on TV.

* Anterograde amnesia
* Hallucinations, through all physical senses, of varying intensity
* Delusions
* Altered thought patterns
* Ataxia or poor motor coordination, difficulty maintaining balance<30>
* Euphoria and/or dysphoria
* Increased appetite
* Decreased libido
* Amnesia
* Impaired judgment and reasoning
* Uninhibited extroversion in social or interpersonal settings
* Increased impulsivity
* When stopped rebound insomnia may occur
This just about sums up McNuts!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolpidem#Side-effects

- Difficulty maintaining balance (recall the scabs on his elbow, as well as needing the Secret Service to help get him down the steps)

- Uninhibited extroversion in social or interpersonal settings (beach volleyball anybody?)

- Increased impulsivity

But I've actually been sleeping well with Melatonin and GABA suppliments

is in the bloodstream.

Some develop strtange sleepwalking behaviors, even driving, with no memory after the incidents.

mark

...but your alarm is going off and it invades your dream as a siren or some kind of crazy bird? Have you ever woke up to realize that you'd been sleeping with your eyes open and saw what was obviously the grassy lawn a second ago turn into the pink wall you were really staring at?

Sounds like Ambien can put you right into a severe version of that. Wakeful dreaming.

Now how fun would it be to see McCain swatting away at imaginary North Vietnamese monkey-bats in the middle of a debate?

Still hoping to see this discussed on TV. Olbermann, where are you when I need you?

I stopped when seemingly-random packages from QVC started showing up at my doorstep. At first I thought it was identity theft or something, so I asked for my call records from my phone company, and as it turned out, yeah, I was indeed calling QVC's order line at 2am and 3am. Apparently I was "waking up," turning to QVC, and ordering things I saw. I had no recollection.

:rofl:

Thanks for making me laugh!!!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/09/eveningnews/main1384884.shtml



Did anybody check who was driving the Straight Talk Express when it took out that minivan last week? Maybe Grampy was feeling the big A...

- as

I've heard stories of sleep driving and sleep eating but yours is definately a first.

The Australia Therapeutic Goods Administration has the following black box warning:

"Zolpidem may be associated with potentially dangerous complex sleep-related behaviours which may include sleep walking, sleep driving and other bizarre behaviours. Zolpidem is not to be taken with alcohol. Caution is needed with other CNS depressant drugs. Limit use to four weeks maximum under close medical supervision."

However, even those may not be srong enough:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/stilnox-warnings-upgraded/2008/08/11/1218306743431.html

When our son was born, my wife was on ambien in the hospital fighting off pre-term labor
The next morning she reported about an army of goldfish that swam up to her bed and tried to sell her magazine subscriptions.
Unlike you she didn't actually order any though :rofl:

Ladies and gentlemen.....ARMY OF GOLDFISH!!!!

;)

all the time here. But, then-it is New Jersey.

:rofl:

My self on ambien has terrible taste. If I ever need a white elephant gift I've got the world's ugliest green glass turtle, complete with lid. Only cost me $68, including shipping. The fabric I bought was much nicer, but I still can't figure out how I rememberd my paypal password so I could pay for it.

laxative the next time? How often does Obama have a shit?

Why are we discussing this crap?

:rofl:

my friend used to sleep drive on ambien a lot. I think that one key is to go to bed as SOON as it starts making you sleepy. If you stay up a minute longer than a certain window, it's crazy time for a lot of people, for the rest of the night. At least, in my experiences.

Like all drugs it effects different people in different ways.

and take them all to Taco Bell or McDonald's when I was on Ambien. They would let me know which place they wanted to go.

A 72 year old man running for president is taking a drug that could make him forget who the fuck he is?

Obama's toilet habits don't interest me in the least, sorry. The potential Leader Of The Free world taking a drug that could render him incapable of making a clear decision most certainly does.

That doesn't bother you, even a little?

- as

don't criticize that, it'll make the Dems look bad." Seriously.

"Search" is a marvelous tool--but I've got a better memory thatn it does, even.

fine. I think this is stupid and silly and won't help at ALL.

I have taken Ambien with no problems. I take it when I am already in bed. 5 mg will keep me out for 4 to 5 hours. 10 mg will provide a good nights sleep for 6 to 8 hours. Since I have never had to get up in the night I do not know if I would be coherent. I do know that I feel groggy within 30 minutes after taking the drug. Maybe I shouldn't wash it down with a shot of whiskey. LOL

Drugs of that type scare the crap outta me.

- as

never had a problem with it (minus the alcohol though) and I've never had the first side effect from it.

I'm extremely sensitive to medicine - I take 1/4 of a Zyrtec pill for allergies and the few times of year I get insomnia (usually caused by restless leg/body syndrome), I sometimes resort to Ambien.

But, he's obviously got PTSD and you can't blame him.

I think if it weren't such a sacrosanct subject, his POW internment really ought to be factored AGAINST him. No, it isn't fair. But you're not going to convince me that 5 or 6 years as an abused POW isn't going to mess with your head permanently. He's lucky he's not Admiral Stockdale.

My personal experience: it works great but even after a good sleep I can't remember the first few hours of the morning; I'm just on autopilot. Can't imagine anyone trying to run a country while taking that sh--t.

"Russia just attacked Poland? Can't it wait until morning, you know McCain has given us strict orders not to wake him up!"

Didn't do shit.I was upped until I was on the highest dose too. I guess I'm gonna be nocturnal all my life,It has been my sleep pattern for years anyway. As a kid Often I was the only person awake..Sometimes in a diurnal world it can be a hassle to get shit done appointments etc..
Anyways I get "fugue states" alot,without ambien,Than blammo 4 hours have passed and I have no clue what happened.

its a hypnotic and its amnesia inducing.
people have cited doing the following activities while on ambien with no recollection:
driving
having sex
binge eating
posting on DU. (kidding but the rest are true)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=1927026&page=1

possibly "sleep-driving".

preferred Oxycontin.
Imagine McCane on Quaaludes.

to clue me in.

It's my blog, and probably the first time in about a year I've even put up a link here.

I'll think about you and refrain from doing so in the future.

- as

Would you prefer me to be polite, or PC? I'm not.

And in the a.m. I can/could apologize, or not. :shrug:

Sorry it offended you.

As for an apology, whatever. I'll speak my mind and just say I won't go out of my way to look for it.

- as

I am an RN and I work in a hospital ward that deals with bad hearts, lungs, kidneys, etc. Most of my patients, therefore, are above the age of 60.

As an RN, if I have a patient that cannot sleep, and they are above the age of 60, I would NEVER recommend and would actually question an MD who ordered Ambien for that patient.

The older you get, the more time it takes for your kidneys and liver to process drugs to get them out of your system in a timely manner. The elderly (and those with bad kidneys and livers, regardless of their age) are often given reduced doses of many drugs because of the increased half-life due to decreased metabolism via liver/kidneys.

I have given Ambien to "older" patients, and more often than not, I have seen them have horrid reactions to it. They do not sleep and, in fact, get quite agitated and crazy, if you will.

They become combative, assaultive, confused, and incoherent. I have seen perfectly "normal" patients with no previous diagnosis or history of dementia, Alzheimers, etc, go into a dementia-like state, where they are unable to state who they are, where they are, or any other information regarding orientation. They become confused about time, see people who aren't there, and confuse staff memebers for being family members. They attempt to remove invasive devices like catheters, IV lines, and heart monitors. They assault staff and in many cases have to be physically restrained with wrist straps until they "come out" of their delirious state, usually without any memory or incinlination of their behaviour during the previous night.

Another medication, Ativan (Lorazepam, related to Valium) generally has the same reaction in older patients as well. I only give Ativan if the patient has been on it previously and they would go through benzodiazepine withdrawal if they don't have it, or if they are getting it to decrease alcoholic withdrawal symptoms like the DT's (it lowers the seizure threshold for those going through withdrawal to alcohol).

For older patients, we either give them Benadryl, or Benadryl + Acetamenophen (basically Tylenol PM), or Haloperidol (Haldol). Those are the most effective for sleep in the elderly, they do not have the HIGH rate of adverse reactions that Ambien and Ativan do, and they don't linger as much as the previous two drugs do, either.
---

That being said, I have seen people who have not slept in days have the best nights sleep because of Ambien. I have seen people who have perfectly functioning kidneys and livers have reactions to Ambien. However, the majority of adverse reactions to Ambien that I and my co-workers (RN's and MD's) have seen have been amongst the elderly in general, especially the elderly that have underlying kidney/liver dysfunction, and the non-elderly with kidney/liver dysfunction.

---

There is no way that someone that has to be alert at the drop of the hat should be taking Ambien. My husband (35, healthy) got a 7 day sample for his insomnia. He was prescribed 5mg, which is the lowest supplied dose, and only took 1/2 of it---2.5mg. Within an hour he could not stand up without stumbling and when he went to bed he did not MOVE for the next 10 hours. After he woke up, he had an Ambien Hangover for the next 5-7 hours where he was functional, but in a very muted and delayed way. He did not remember taking the pill, did not remember falling asleep, and said he was glad I was home because he could have easily burned down the house by taking the pill while cooking dinner or some such.

Oh yeah, my husband is an RN, too.

He never took Ambien again, and relies on Benadryl, Old Faithful in our household.

---
If McCain has an issue with sleep, there are other medications---Rx, OTC, and herbal (melatonin works great in the elderly) that can produce sleep, make sleep easier, and make it easier for one to sleep through the night, that do not have the deleterious side effects on the elderly that Ambien has. If I had the ability, I would suggest that he ask his MD for something less dangerous, less long-acting, and less likely to produce adverse effects, specifically and especially because of his age.

Love,

Heddi, RN

Always good to have a pro weigh in with facts. :)

It's the part about the effects being possibly more pronounced in the elderly that really bugs me. Should McCain become president (perish the thought) and he's still taking this stuff, he could make a mistake that could injure or even kill thousands of people.

That's more than a little disturbing to me.

- as

Even vitamin supplements like One A Day that are marketed to the elderly generally have lower-doses of the vitamins and minerals because old folks hang on to that shit longer than you and I do. Especially bad if they're taking supplements of fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E, K. Those have the potential for OD for anyone, especially those that have delayed metabolism for whatever reason.

Pick up a drug book and you'll see reccomended doses for children (if it's appropriate for them), the elderly, those with compromised immune systems, and those with compromised renal and hepatic function. All of those folks will "take in" drugs differently because of their physiology. For some, it may pass through their system more quickly, therefore requiring a higher dose to get therapeutic levels, or it may pass through more slowly, requiring lower doses for therapeutic levels.

ignoring the potential risk then what are they willing to overlook when it concerns his health?

I remember learning in neuro that haldol is used as a chemical straight jacket.

this is some scary stuff. :-(

not even the 3a.m. call. Because there beside him, is McCindy-dog. She might injure her wrist answering, but when it comes to being rational, there are none better, just ask her half-sister.

I have been waiting for years for that to catch on.

yep, that is what my 12 yr. old grandson calls my hubby now.

2 summers ago my husband took Ambien, daughter stopped speaking to us and the grandson was terrified of the grouchy mean old man.
Mean, impatient and grouchy. I threw that garbage out and told him I would leave him if he ever took it again.

His 'little blue pills.'

Prolly the reason he threw up on that Japanese dude.

- as

to prop Bush and Reagan were disastrous for their overall performance and mental condition. McCain will be on afterburners and not to be cruel, the Dems should apply pressure NOW to avoid a flameout by another incompetent in the Oval Office.

if he really needs it. But one night, he didn't get enough sleep after taking it and when he got up to go to work, it still wasn't out of his system. Normally he's the best freaking driver in the world, but that morning, he was so out of it, when he pulled out of the garage, he misjudged the distance and knocked his passenger side mirror right off.

He apparently just parked the car in the driveway, didn't even lower the garage door, came back in the house and got back in bed, fully dressed.

He woke up two hours later with only a vague recollection of what he had done. And obviously went into work really late that day. But since then, he's even more careful about that shit. Takes it as early as possible if he's going to take it. And most nights, doesn't take it at all.

Why do people take drugs when the side effects are worse than the freakin' problem?

In dire need of further research in re McCain's usage. This needs to be made public...seriously.

Ambien is some messed up stuff and it seems that everyone is taking that crap. True story: When I lived in San Diego I lived next door to a nice enough woman who was having terrible insomnia. She came home with some Ambien from her doc and she raved about it said she was finally getting eight hours of sleep. I didn't think anything of it until one night I was outside having a smoke and there she was butt ass naked with nothing but an apron on pruning her roses. I tried to ask her what the hell she was doing and she was looked at me like I was the one that on drugs said she was pruning her roses. The next day she wouldn't even look at me. Latter that day her husband told me that he threw her pills down the drain. I know that it is suppose to help people but I have had too many friends call me or e-mail me while on that crap and they never remember a word they said and the crazy thing is that they will have long drawn out conversations as if they are not intoxicated on that mess.

but doesn't Ambien act on the same receptors as a benozopide would? This would mean that you would build a tolerance to it with the quickness if used daily. I truly hope McCain isn't taking that mess.

McCain often denies having made statements when it's obvious he should have known that it's been recorded for posterity. Is it possible that he actually doesn't remember having made those statements? Something to think about.

One of my great-uncles, and his son, are MD's. I have three sisters and a brother. Two of my sister's daughters are RN's, one of my brother's son is an RN. All would agree with Heiddi's statement in the post captioned above. I personally have witnessed aberrant behavior as a result of Ambien and the aged. This is serious.

Many have made statements here without having done the reasearch...do so. Not Powell supports it...not millions do, do the research. Don't take someone else's opinion. Remember, these people don't know or remember what they've done...somnambulism, parasomnia. This borders on temporary psychosis.

If McCain has actually been prescribed Ambien than one needs to interview his Doctor, on TV. Have documentary proof available for the many others whom have had adverse affects. Olbermann?

This thread kept me awake last night. One of the most important threads in some time...it really is serious.

If you've never taken the time to actually do the reasearch...please do so. Again, it really is a serious issue.

Think I'll keep bumping this thread until there's a resolve.

Rare? BS...there are almost twelve reported cases here alone. I suspect that the woman here who states that her husband is a psychiatrist could contribute many examples. He isn't adverse to Ambien without cause.

Drug Lobbyists? There's big money in Ambien and drugs in general.

There are thousands of reported cases...dig deep.

Care to gamble that McCain numbers amongst the "rare?"

If one is not amongst the "rare" how would they know for certain unless a relative or friend told them so? Somnambulism, parasomnia.

I really do believe this is the reason he completely blanked out in that town hall a couple of weeks ago.

I used to take drugs (not Ambien, but some drugs people would consider even worse because they're on the wrong side of legality), and I know what they do to your head. I keep as clean as I can these days, and I expect no less from whoever is trying to sit in the Big Chair.

- as

I'd like to see a serious discussion on this issue on TV. And, not a whitewash from drug companies et al. There is considerable documented evidence as to the adverse effects of Ambien. I've observed it, as have others here. These are not isolated cases.

If McCain is a user this needs to be addressed. It's been said that he's an occasional user...that doesn't cut it. Once can be enough.

Once can be enough. One of my brother-in-laws, a few months ago, had a heart attack. While in the hospital the doctor prescribed Ambien. Something embarrassing happened that night. The next morning one of the LPN's on duty chastised him for the incident...he denied it...wasn't even aware. His daughter, my niece, who happens to be an RN, arrived at the hospital that day. She read the riot act to the LPN and the doctor...rightfully so. Needless to say that that was his first and last experience with Ambien. I have many other stories...one is enough. See the other links.

One person on this thread is in denial. Do the research...J.

You raised an important question that must be taken seriously.

Here's one from the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/08/business/08ambien.html?amp;ei=5090&en=17c799814d697014&partner=rssuserland&ex=1299474000&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

http://www.askdocweb.com/ambien4.html

And then we have OD and withdrawal problems...not yet addressed.

I'll stop here for awhile. Found many more.

I could not sleep tonight, logged on and found my way back to this thread. The one thing I have to say about amiben, after watching several friends become dependent on the crap is that it is very dangerous. The drug companies contribute to this by lying and saying that the drug is not addictive when it is highly addictive. It's one of the drugs that after a short period of time you need more of in order for it to work. Also what they don't tell people is the terrible withdraw side effects that some people have. Some people say they get rebound insomnia after trying to quit ambien. This means that they are not able to sleep from anywhere to a few nights to a few weeks after they stop ambien which puts them on some awful vicious cycle. I know so much about the drug because I have a good friend that was addicted to it she was addicted for five years. She was prescribed this crap after having a baby and it all went down hill from there. Since I watched how it destroyed her life I have refused to take it even though I suffer from insomnia. This is a dangerous addictive drug even the CR is addicted. The drug company has the public fooled into thinking that the control release version is not as bad when in reality it is just as bad.

My daughter and I have both had bad reactions to it. If I don't get my ass horizontal within 20 minutes of taking it, I will be beset by dizziness, disorientation, and nausea. The third and last time I took one, I wasn't able to get myself to bed (for reasons beyond my control) and I stumbled around for 2 hours before finally becoming uncontrollably ill--due to the dizziness of having to remain upright. If my SO hadn't been there, I could easily have aspirated and died because I fell asleep on the floor. I'm exceptionally high-functioning and I could not function for 8 hours after taking this pill. And I'm far from 72.

I won't take it again. We tossed the rest of them in the trash.

This is a cause for great concern. If McThingy needs his sleepytime pill, then he shouldn't be in charge. It seriously impairs you.

Eventually someone might finally take this seriously.

The fugue state is true. It does work, but the whole bit about the amount of sleep you must have after taking it is 100% Correct.

I have to go right to bed after I take it. If I stay up, I start doing things I later have no recollection of. I have even made phone calls that I didn't remember the next day---I'm 46 and would not aspire to be president. The President of the US should never take it.

I took it and had only five hours. I was off all the next day. It's a lot more powerful than people think, especially Ambien CR.