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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:18 PM
Original message
Daily Democrat: A positive discussion about Dennis Kucinich
In an effort to provide for some enlightening discussion, rather than partisan flaming, the administrators have decided to post regular threads about the candidates for the Democratic nomination which are reserved for positive discussion only. These threads will be called the "Daily Democrat".

Currently, we intend to post two Daily Democrat discussion threads per day. If a particular thread becomes too long, then the moderators will open additional threads as necessary. These discussion threads will be allowed to stay open until the next two Daily Democrat threads are opened at some point the following day.

THE RULES

The rules for these Daily Democrat candidate threads are as follows. (For the purposes of these rules, the candidate who is the subject of the thread is referred to as the "Daily Democrat".)

1. You are welcome to post anything positive about the Daily Democrat. You can explain why you support that person. You can dispel myths about that candidate. You can discuss that person's positions on various issues. Whatever.

2. You are allowed to favorably compare the Daily Democrat to other candidates, provided that you are not unnecessarily inflammatory or antagonistic to the other candidates.

3. You may not post attacks of any kind against the Daily Democrat. Furthermore, you cannot post criticism and try to pass it off as a compliment ("I enthusiastically support candidate X because he ruined his state's economy!")

4. You may not discuss the supporters of any candidate (that goes for the the Daily Democrat, or any other candidate).

5. Undecided voters are encouraged to ask questions about the Daily Democrat in order to better inform their choice. Note that criticism disguised as a question will not be allowed.

6. You may not start another discussion thread for the purposes of responding to comments made in the "Daily Democrat" thread. Sorry -- you just have to suck it up and let the positive discussion continue uninterrupted.

7. I will not babysit the Daily Democrat thread, because I believe it will not be necessary. It is the responsibility of every member to know and follow the rules. Deliberate disruption of the Daily Democrat thread, or efforts by opponents to influence the Daily Democrat thread, will result in the banning of the individual(s) responsible.

8. I reserve the right to change the rules as necessary to make this work.


TIMING

We will discuss two Daily Democrats per day, and cycle through the list of presidential candidates in modified alphabetical order.

12/13 - Wesley Clark ...... and ... Dennis Kucinich
12/14 - NO DAILY DEMOCRAT THREAD
12/15 - Howard Dean ....... and ... Joe Lieberman
12/16 - John Edwards ...... and ... Carol Moseley Braun
12/17 - Dick Gephardt ..... and ... Al Sharpton
12/18 - John Kerry ........ and ... Wesley Clark
12/19 - Dennis Kucinich ... and ... Howard Dean
12/20 - Joe Lieberman ..... and ... John Edwards
12/21 - Carol Moseley Braun and ... Dick Gephardt
12/22 - Al Sharpton ....... and ... John Kerry
12/23 - Wesley Clark ...... and ... Dennis Kucinich
12/24 - Etc...


LET'S GET STARTED

Here's your chance for some positive discussion of Dennis Kucinich! Who wants to start it off?
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Paulie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. A good starting point
Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 01:22 PM by Paulie
This article from Salon.com from the linktv.org interview:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/12/18/kucinich/index.html

Dennis <--- :yourock:
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quispquake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. I can think of a lot of cool stuff about Dennis!!!
--Love his 'single payer' health care (shared by Braun)
--He is the reason Diebold backed down from attacking web sites with links to docs
--Gave Koppel a good beating at the debate last week...

He comes across as an honest man (admittedly a rare thing these days among elected officials!!!). I would be thrilled to have Kucinich as my president!
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kclown Donating Member (459 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. I love DK for his intelligence and his progressive instincts,
and I agree 1000% that the defense budget is too big.  I'll
vote for him in my state caucus in February, although I don't
think he'll win.  I do have a question.  He was in Cleveland
and Ohio state politics in the mid-seventies, and then elected
to congress in 1994.  What did he do in between?
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Never tried MJ, but wants it decriminalized/legalized
(sorry, can't remember which). That was a strong statement on his part. It shows openmindedness and sense in the face of an insane War on Plants.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. He wants mj to be treated the same as alcohol
Which would mean that it would be treated as an adult-use substance that could be grown at home for one's own use or purchased over the counter from licenced vendors--'I'd like a bottle of Ockfener Bockstein '93 and an ounce of Acapulco Gold, please'.

How nice to think of some of our Constitutional rights being restored to us, huh?
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Rainbowreflect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kucinich is an honest man of vision.
He believes that we could be so much better than we are.
A friend ask why Dennis Kucinich over the other candidates and I in a rare poetic moment thought of the following.

As we teeter on the edge of disaster knowing bush would gladly push us over the edge. I believe any of the democratic candidates can build a bridge to climb across, but Dennis Kucinich would give us wings to fly across.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Good answer!
A man of great vision, hope and integrity. Sounds presidential to me.
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Nadienne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wouldn't it be terrific
If DK won the primaries? The resounding message to the biased media would be, "We don't trust you. We don't need you. We're taking our country back."
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Nadienne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Courage, America!"
And it will take courage...

Where is the spirit that fought against oppression over 200 years ago? Our heroes, revolutionaries, the founders of our nation, had courage. And so does Kucinich. And so must we, if we're going to change things for the better.
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Nadienne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. In my opinion, the best thing about DK
is his viewpoint on health care.

The other candidates (with the exception of Braun) want to get everyone covered with insurance. But DK has pointed out, insurance is insufficient. Premiums go up, out-of-pocket costs go up, coverage shrinks. Do away with the middle-man! Streamline the system! Take the profit out of health care!

Ironic, though, that high health care costs are the boogey-men that insurance companies need to scare people into needing insurance. I wonder if costs in general will go down if we get rid of the middleman...
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FightinNewDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kucinich

It probably comes as a shock, but I actually like Dennis Kucinich. Mind you, I have huge diferences with him on trade and national security (and I don't really think single-payer is the best or most feasible approach to achieving universal coverage, though I share that goal), I find him genuine and authentic.

I also like the Catholic social justice undercurrent that runs just below the surface of much of his rhetoric. Coming from a family where this is part of the package, it is good to hear it on the campaign trail. Heck, it sometimes helps to keep this curmudgeonly centrist keep his moorings! ;)

Of course, anyone who tells Ted Koeppel to go pound sand is doing something right in my book!
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kucinich is just goddamn awesome
I referenced him in an essay I wrote. He knows Franklin's "those who are willing to disregard their liberties for security deserve neither", he is the only candiate who voted against the patriot act. His ideas are what those of the party should be. I think there's gonna be a suprise in Iowa, I hope so.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. DK has come a long way. I'm glad he's a Democrat because we need his fire
and determined sprit.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. There will be Kleeb, there will be
I can report that DK is doing a hell of a lot better in northern Iowa than even the supposed "frontrunners". MN for Kucinich has been helping out canvassing and doing voter ID calls, and there's still a lot of undecideds out there-- and a number of former undecideds who are coming out to the caucuses for DK.

There's still a month to do before the caucuses-- ANYTHING can happen between now and then.

One thing about Kucinich I like is his honesty and sincerity: something I don't see enough of in other candidates. He does not back away from his history-- even his past controversial stances on issues-- and explains his changes in position in a forthright, honest manner. I have yet to see any of the so-called "frontrunners" explain their evolution so credibly as DK has.

ONWARD...
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yeah
January suprise :evilgrin:
I am gonna be booyahing everyone I can :D. That's just great, thanks.
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Nadienne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. Anyone see Letterman last night?
I was dozing off... But I know I heard Letterman mention Kucinich...
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Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. many good qualities
Since the campaign began, my opinion of him has only increased. If he were the nominee, I would return to voting Democratic for president. That's how good he is.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kucinich: The honest antiwar liberal who the media ignored
because honesty is not something they appreciate. DK scared them with his stance rooted in honest disagreement and real passion.

The media only knows how to cover the superficial and create perceptions rooted in deception. They can't handle Dennis Kucinich.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. DK showed his cajones way back on Feb. 17, 2002 - just 6 mos. after 9/11
That's when Kucinich delivered his world-famous "Prayer for America" speech.

Kucinich gave this speech just six months after Sep. 11th, 2001, and way before the actual Iraq force resolution vote came up. I think the point was, and is, that he believed this now, and he believes this then. And that, among other reasons, is why he not only was not "misled" by Bush, but why even now he represents the best possible candidate we could choose to replace Bush with the opposite of Bush.

http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech1.htm

An excerpt:

Let us pray that our nation will remember that the unfolding of the promise of democracy in our nation paralleled the striving for civil rights. That is why we must challenge the rationale of the Patriot Act. We must ask why should America put aside guarantees of constitutional justice?

How can we justify in effect canceling the First Amendment and the right of free speech, the right to peaceably assemble?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Fourth Amendment, probable cause, the prohibitions against unreasonable search and seizure?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Fifth Amendment, nullifying due process, and allowing for indefinite incarceration without a trial?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Sixth Amendment, the right to prompt and public trial?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Eighth Amendment which protects against cruel and unusual punishment?

We cannot justify widespread wiretaps and internet surveillance without judicial supervision, let alone with it. We cannot justify secret searches without a warrant. We cannot justify giving the Attorney General the ability to designate domestic terror groups. We cannot justify giving the FBI total access to any type of data which may exist in any system anywhere such as medical records and financial records.

We cannot justify giving the CIA the ability to target people in this country for intelligence surveillance. We cannot justify a government which takes from the people our right to privacy and then assumes for its own operations a right to total secrecy. The Attorney General recently covered up a statue of Lady Justice showing her bosom as if to underscore there is no danger of justice exposing herself at this time, before this administration.

Let us pray that our nation's leaders will not be overcome with fear. Because today there is great fear in our great Capitol. And this must be understood before we can ask about the shortcomings of Congress in the current environment. The great fear began when we had to evacuate the Capitol on September 11. It continued when we had to leave the Capitol again when a bomb scare occurred as members were pressing the CIA during a secret briefing. It continued when we abandoned Washington when anthrax, possibly from a government lab, arrived in the mail. It continued when the Attorney General declared a nationwide terror alert and then the Administration brought the destructive Patriot Bill to the floor of the House. It continued in the release of the Bin Laden tapes at the same time the President was announcing the withdrawal from the ABM treaty. It remains present in the cordoning off of the Capitol. It is present in the camouflaged armed national guardsmen who greet members of Congress each day we enter the Capitol campus. It is present in the labyrinth of concrete barriers through which we must pass each time we go to vote. The trappings of a state of siege trap us in a state of fear, ill equipped to deal with the Patriot Games, the Mind Games, the War Games of an unelected President and his unelected Vice President.

Let us pray that our country will stop this war. "To promote the common defense" is one of the formational principles of America. Our Congress gave the President the ability to respond to the tragedy of September the Eleventh. We licensed a response to those who helped bring the terror of September the Eleventh. But we the people and our elected representatives must reserve the right to measure the response, to proportion the response, to challenge the response, and to correct the response.

Because we did not authorize the invasion of Iraq.
We did not authorize the invasion of Iran.
We did not authorize the invasion of North Korea.
We did not authorize the bombing of civilians in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize permanent detainees in Guantanamo Bay.
We did not authorize the withdrawal from the Geneva Convention.
We did not authorize military tribunals suspending due process and habeas corpus.
We did not authorize assassination squads.
We did not authorize the resurrection of COINTELPRO.
We did not authorize the repeal of the Bill of Rights.
We did not authorize the revocation of the Constitution.
We did not authorize national identity cards.
We did not authorize the eye of Big Brother to peer from cameras throughout our cities.
We did not authorize an eye for an eye.
Nor did we ask that the blood of innocent people, who perished on September 11, be avenged with the blood of innocent villagers in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize the administration to wage war anytime, anywhere, anyhow it pleases.
We did not authorize war without end.
We did not authorize a permanent war economy.

Yet we are upon the threshold of a permanent war economy. The President has requested a $45.6 billion increase in military spending. All defense-related programs will cost close to $400 billion. Consider that the Department of Defense has never passed an independent audit. Consider that the Inspector General has notified Congress that the Pentagon cannot properly account for $1.2 trillion in transactions. Consider that in recent years the Dept. of Defense could not match $22 billion worth of expenditures to the items it purchased, wrote off, as lost, billions of dollars worth of in-transit inventory and stored nearly $30 billion worth of spare parts it did not need.

Yet the defense budget grows with more money for weapons systems to fight a cold war which ended, weapon systems in search of new enemies to create new wars. This has nothing to do with fighting terror. This has everything to do with fueling a military industrial machine with the treasure of our nation, risking the future of our nation, risking democracy itself with the militarization of thought which follows the militarization of the budget.

Let us pray for our children. Our children deserve a world without end. Not a war without end. Our children deserve a world free of the terror of hunger, free of the terror of poor health care, free of the terror of homelessness, free of the terror of ignorance, free of the terror of hopelessness, free of the terror of policies which are committed to a world view which is not appropriate for the survival of a free people, not appropriate for the survival of democratic values, not appropriate for the survival of our nation, and not appropriate for the survival of the world.

Let us pray that we have the courage and the will as a people and as a nation to shore ourselves up, to reclaim from the ruins of September the Eleventh our democratic traditions. Let us declare our love for democracy. Let us declare our intent for peace. Let us work to make nonviolence an organizing principle in our own society. Let us recommit ourselves to the slow and painstaking work of statecraft, which sees peace, not war as being inevitable. Let us work for a world where someday war becomes archaic.

http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech1.htm

This speech was given way before Dean "got tough" with Bush, and way before the Senators running for President "got misled" by Bush.

This speech not only shows that Kucinich has the biggest cajones, it shows that he's the real deal, the original from which all the copies throwing themselves up against Bush as "alternates" were cast.

Kucinich for President.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

P.S. Please visit this flash website to view a greeting from Kucinich and a movable globe that you can turn to see how Kucinich's plans will affect the world:

http://www.kucinich.us/greeting
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Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. yep
Prayer for America was posted on the commondreams.org website at the time. You'd think that his position would be common sense, yet somehow it is considered unacceptable radicalism. It's a fine bit of oratory, to my ear.
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. Many positive things about Kucinich
Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 07:47 PM by eileen_d
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