Obama needs Hillary. It's getting more and more obvious...

No one will bring what Hillary brings. Rip me all you want, but take a look at the polls this last month. She is the only one that can generate excitement. I will do whatever it takes to WIN in November. And if that means Hillary, so fucking be it!!!!!!!!!!

The rethugs have volumes of stuff on her to use. They're salivating at the thought. That'll help. :eyes:

Obama did.

It's a myth among Clinton-haters that she has too much "baggage" to win.

The GOP hopes to run against a divided Democratic Party. Which the polls clearly show we'll have if she isn't on the ticket.

I'm sure that would come up. He's considered 'baggage' whether you recognize that or not.

GOD. You people KNOW that. That's NOT the kind of vetting the Obama campaign would put him through.

Geez LOUISE. What willfull ignorance.

FINANCIALLY vetted.

FINANCIALLY vetted.

We have a winner.

considered being vetted? What about donors to his library? What's he hiding, and don't you think that might come up? Stop being willfully ignorant.

who Bush wanted to hand our ports? Bill got away with protecting BushInc throughout the 90s on BCCI, but now the American people know a bit more about Dubai angling to control our ports and will not sit still for it, even WITH a GOP and Dem president siding with the Dubai royals - the same guys who staked the world's biggest terrorist bank - BCCI.

Or, because....you believe the fascist media will not shine a light on the ACTUAL problems of the Bush and Clinton family alliances and agenda, as they put out their regular dog and pony show offerings to further hoodwink the gullible into believing the Bushes and Clintons ARE the two divides in this country?

of serious wrongs committed in our name if we expect to have anything even resembling open government ever again.

writing letters to my Senators and Rep. Nothing gets gone and both the dems and rupugs continue to raid social security year and year.

It just seems hopeless at times. but I assure you I do try.

have a nice day.

the ills of America, no matter how admired and worshiped he is, then you have no idea how change actually comes about.

to be seen by them. An open government Democrat will do that. If you don't believe in open government you won't fight for it. If you do, then you will.

Byrd is right, it took 100's of years to get where we were 10 years ago, and 8 to undo it. It will take another 100 years to get back to "normal" Obama is not going o change anything, if he was going to he would have stood firm on FISA, Offshore drilling, etc. he is just going with th flow, and maybe stop the bleeding, not completely, but slow it down.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/051006.html

He HAS to be better than the Dem who spent the 90s siding WITH the secrecy and privilege of the Bushes and their powerful cronies.

The American public is obsessed with donors to Bill Clinton's library.
Everywhere I go it's a topic of conversation, I'm so sick of hearing about it.


:eyes:

they have.

the donors to Bill Clinton's library?

Ever watch the news?

I think the list of those who contributed to Clinton's library would be equally interesting, to say the least.

Ever think about that?

:rofl:

rolling on the floor having a tantrum?

Clinton would not have won a 3rd term, stop being like the republicans are like when they hear the name Reagan, stop genuflecting and waiting on the pope to announce his beautification. Clinton was far better than what we have now but is that really saying that much? Clinton made huge mistakes, was not well liked because of his "sins of the flesh", and his foreign policies are one of the reasons GWB had such an easy time invading Iraq.

Clinton was not as bad as GWB, our nation was in a far better place when he left office, but his signing statements, his creation of the extraordinary renditions, his continuation of the illegal "no fly zones" and a good many other like policies and abuses of office, paved the way for GWB to abuse the office as he has now.

Please try to at least exist for periods of time in the real world - idol worship is just scary especially when it rises to the level of the way the repubs look at Reagan.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

for veep that the other candidates go through equate to "being such a hater?"

Oh, the drama! :eyes:

NT!

I don't care who he picks as vp but this virulent carping on the Clintons is sickening.
Please stop. It does nothing to help elect Obama with whoever he chooses as vp.

For crissakes let it go and get with the program of electing a dem president in November - President Obama.

or a link to the list on the net? Heh, you can keep telling yourself it is a myth but that doesn't make the baggage go away for anyone but you. As to the polls, tell me, who is the nominee again?

It's not like anyone said he committed a crime or anything. People feel they have a right to know who's giving them all this money. Perfectly reasonable request of someone seeking the supreme public office.

...among all the groups that we need in order to win an election. The few instances where Obama was trending lower was, if you look at the demographics, because Clinton supporters said they'd vote for McCain if Obama won, while Obama supporters almost never said this.

The "division" is in the minds of a handful of obsessed PUMAs who can't get over the primary.

PUMAs aren't known for their honesty or being well-informed.

and they say, Hillary will swing a state like OH of FL for sure, and they pick her.

WE'LL ALL BACK HIM UP. BECAUSE WINNING THIS AND SAVING THE COUNTRY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THIS PISSING CONTEST>

But if he doesn't pick her, all you Hillary fans need to take a deep breathe and let go, and start the push for her to replace Ried as Majority Leader in Senate.

her. if he would just go ahead and pick her it would be one thing off his plate. I just think the whole tour of europe thing was a waste of time, and then he goes on vacation. bad decisions at the wrong time, hope he gets it together soon.

... it will be better if she isn't on the ticket, if she's not in the top seat.

To be brutal, if she's a VP there will be too many accusations of her overriding Barack or being president from the VP office.

I love my girl. I am glad there will be a roll-call vote at the Convention. It will give her the chance to gracefully cast her Superdelegate vote for Obama, and release her delegates to him. It would even be sweet for him to offer her the VP slot, and her refuse.

But I think she will do more for the party off the ticket. She can hit McCain where it hurts without any of her brashness tarnishing Obama's reputation.

n/t

.....:rofl:

n/t

:rofl:

SASHA Obama will be President.

in Florida, Hillary would be a positive to win the state. Without rehashing all the arguments (I've seen them all), my observation is that a fair number of repub women would jump ship to Hillary and older independents who are big on health care would also.

It seems unlikely that some of the other choices would help in Florida. Actually, Richardson seems pretty popular with many that I talk to, but he's never been mentioned. I've been urging people to register, and that's the story that I get. I realize that Florida is a mess, but it sure would help the cause to put all those electoral votes in the Democratic column.

Nationally, the polls are so unreliable that it's hard to believe anything.

Obama's campaign is Dukakis-esque; HRC needs to "save" him.

Very busy today. And very obvious.

I can't WAIT until he announces, so they'll shut the fuck up.

What do the supposed top four contenders bring?

Kaine: Less experience than Obama, can POSSIBLY bring Virginia...though not as popular in Virginia as Mark Warner is.
Richardson: Which state(s) would he bring? Also, I like him a lot, but two darker skinned people on the ticket? 1 out of 6 voters are uncomfortable with one dark skinned person on the ticket. Racism? Yes, but it is what it is.
Biden: How is this change? Older white guy with decades in Washington, who also voted for the Iraq War. From Delaware, no less.
Bayh: Most doubt he would guarantee Indiana, plus boring milquetoast.

Hillary Clinton garnered as many votes as Barack Obama in the primaries (Biden didn't even get double digits). She would help with women, older voters, blue collar voters, and yes, even racist votes. While I HATE racism to my very core, every vote counts.
Announcing her as his running mate would bring a HUGE bounce.
Who would he lose as a result? The far left? People on DU? I don't think so. Most people here say they would vote for him no matter who he picks. So why not pick the one who would get him the most votes?
When Obama wins, just send Bill on an "Around the World Tour" to restore our standing in the world, and - da-da - he is out of Obama's way.

Edited because I forgot Bayh (that's how boring he is).

but you bring up good points. I do not particularly care for Hillary, but many people DID vote for her, and Obama is tanking. Clark would be my first choice, and I dont see the choices mentioned will do Obama much good. We have to put party FIRST - we MUST win this election. Yes Obama can still draw the crowds, but will the young people turn up like they did in the primaries. Is the novelty wearing off, perhaps people like myself have not been happy with several of his decisions and speeches lately. He will still get my vote, but his campaign needs a complete overhaul.

That's it. I'm hiding every fucking thread that even MENTIONS Hillary and VP in the same sentence. It's not going to happen, and it was NEVER going to happen. It's one of the worst fucking ideas EVER floated, for many, many reasons some people are apparently too willfully blind to see.

Never. Gonna. Happen.

true dat

:rofl:

of the Hillary supporters, does no one here recognize how much she is hated by so many out there? Does no one here realize that if she's on the ticket every single person with any kind of a grievance (real or imagined) against her or Bill will be motivated to vote against her? The excitement she generates is far from all positive.

It might be that putting her on the ticket would appease the most fragile of her supporters, the ones who are so devoted to her ant the Democrats that they will blithely vote for McCain if she's not on the ticket, but there's such a strong feeling against her on the right that her presence would making winning an uphill, and perhaps un winnable battle.

Plus, the sense of entitlement is offensive.

"it shows his weakness"..."if he can't stand up to the Clintons:..."he caved AGAIN to the Clintons, proving their point that he's weak and isn't upt to the job"...it will be RELENTLESS and will get NO positive coverage or bump...

Given the history of Hill 'n Bill, there's a pretty good chance that she'd pull an Edwards and try to lose the election for the presidential candidate, in the hopes of winning it themselves four years hence.

Bill Clinton is a former president. With Senator Clinton on the ticket, the masses will constantly wonder if Senator Obama is really in charge. For all intents and purposes, it would seem like Bill is getting a third term.

That's one reason. There are others but for the sake of Unity, I will refrain from sharing them.

...there's a good reason she didn't win the nomination...she isn't the bast candidate..

Very simple...

He needs her like he needs a lungectomy.

He needs her like he needs diabetes.

He needs her like he needs to stand in a six foot fire ant bed.

He needs her like he needs a bad case of crabs.

He needs her like a bunny needs a pancake on its head:

This is such a bad idea on so many levels I don't believe you posted this.

the bitter primary fights here and in the real world. I was a strident Obama supporter, but unlike most people at DU I'm not a purist. I'm willing to do whatever is necessary (within reason of course) to win. If putting a someone I don't particularly like, someone who might overshadow Obama and ultimately take control of him will win the election...then I'm willing to do it. Winning this election is the most important thing, not someone's fucking feelings idea of righteousness. There's too much at stake. I don't give a shit about having a crazy ass Bill out there. He'll be more of a help than a hurt right now. If he wins, Obama can deal with him later.

The thing is, I don't think Obama really listens to party leaders, advisers, and such. I think he's going to do what he wants. He doesn't like being told to do things or told that he can't do things. That's why he's probably not going to pick Hillary. He's confident (maybe overconfident) in his own abilities and will reject the idea of doing something unpleasant, like taking on Hillary, to win the election.

NOT to put the woman who compared him negatively to John McCain on his ticket.

NOT to put the woman who ran up the highest campaign debt in history on his ticket to gain credibility in economical matters.

NOT to put the woman who lied about a simple landing in a foreign country and falsely inflated her role in another International matter on his ticket as a show of increasing foreign policy cred.

NOT to put the woman who mentioned 'assassination' several times in the primary one step away from her ultimate goal, with him being that step. You don't have to like the inference, but there are some pretty unhinged people out there on the fringe who believe to this day that Hillary was wronged and had this nomination stolen from her. There's already been one arrest made for an Obama assassination threat. Don't think it's impossible that there isn't one single other person in this nation who doesn't harbor those kinds of thoughts.


"Crazy ass Bill" isn't helping now, and he could very easily say something positive about Obama while giving McCain no positive press, but he can't seem to do it.

Maybe you don't care what happens in the WH as long as the election is won, but I'll bet Obama does.

I used to defend her all day long.

You need to stop listen to the media.

I think she could help with Obama's number, but I also think it will help with McCains - so a wash.

for the most part, let's not any of us forget that she got 18+ million votes in the primary, and won the popular vote. Obama choosing Hillary does not show weakness. Quite the opposite. It shows intelligent acknowledgment of the ENTIRE base of the democratic party. No one can bring to the ticket what Hillary brings.

If he chooses Biden, I'm fine with that, but any other choice other than Hillary (or Biden) makes absolutely no sense.

Her "popular-vote" argument is a myth and excludes caucus numbers favorable to Obama.

And since when do we bring primary votes back in? The Lakers didn't ask to have their Semifinals scores added to the Finals. The primary season is over, and any argument regarding Hillary's somewhat inflated total is useless at this point.

They were unable to take time to caucus because of work/school demands. Caucusing is much more personally demanding and time-consuming than casting a simple, private vote.

Including in states where Hillary won.

Caucuses also attract grassroots activists and help blunt against candidates getting by on money and name recognition.

Between work and the kids, I don't have that amount of time.

Here in Mass I drop by on my way to work, it takes 10 minutes tops, and then I am on my way.

they don't choose either a simple primary or mandate a day off so everyone who wants can attend, it's your own damn fault for putting up with stupid leadership from your state-wide party.

Strange how no one made a big deal until Clinton started spinning it to try sneak her way past the rules.

I am talking about a choice for VP, NOT the PRIMARIES.

I think she is the best choice for VP. If you disagree - that's fine.

let's not any of us forget that she got 18+ million votes in the primary, and won the popular vote.

I expect we'd disagree about her as VP, which is fine, but at least own up to your post.

a rehashing of the primaries. It's a fact that cannot be ignored, and certainly a consideration for a VP pick.

If you bring up how many votes she got in the primary, no matter what the actual number is, that certainly constitutes a "rehashing."

And my initial objection was to the inflated number of 18 million votes/popular vote argument.

objection is baseless. Our back and forth on this is rather useless. I support Obama for President, and really, really want to see him win. IMO, Hillary brings a lot to his ticket. We disagree. That's fine.

She didn't win it - she came in second IN EVERY SINGLE METRIC.

STARTED BY TERRY MCAULIFFE AND PERPETUATED BY HILLARY'S SUPPORTERS.

I can't believe people took that number he pulled out of his ass and have turned it into their "truth."

One that can only be stated with a straight face if you discount whole states entirely.

Stop fucking lying already.

The primary process hadn't been stacked against her with the unfair caucuses.

She has loads of support, despite the oh-so-obviously misogynistic anti-Hillary contingent on this board

If these primaries were stacked in favor of anyone it was stacked in favor of Clinton by being front loaded so that her name recognition could push her ahead before anyone had a chance to really take a look at the candidates.

The caucuses were fine for years but this year they're suddenly unfair? Please! Perhaps Clinton would have done better in the caucuses if she'd put in the work to win them the way Obama did. Instead she assumed the contest would be over in her favor by February 5th and ended up hoisted on her own petard. Would it really kill you to give Obama some credit for having waged a really good campaign?

What revisionist fuckery!

And there is no evidence that Clinton can win states that Obama can't. No one has a lock on a state that he or she had won in the primary. Clinton may have won Arkansas but it doesn't mean it won't go for McLoser in November. This argument is absurd.

Regards

we need more women leaders............you know, one's who tell the truth and don't bullshit and tear down people in their own party like what Clinton did.

it has nothing to do with hating women, though everyone would like to use it to denigrate whoever disagrees.

Thats where Obama needs help - he is doing really well with women

I've been saying it for months that whichever one ended at the top of the ticket should offer the other one the VP position. They are both historical candidates who have passionate supporters. They both ended neck to neck and neither would have clinched the nomination without the superdelegates.

Therefore, it was more than evident that the party was split in half.

But nooooooo, the left wing doesn't want the Clintons. Well, guess what? The majority of Democrats are moderates who still like and respect both Clintons.

Whatever, why do I keep wasting my time going over this ad nauseum?

I give up.......

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I support obama because of moral fiber that Hillary does not posses. The negativity and mudslinging that the clintons engaged in is the worse kind of GOP tactic.

If Obama chose rush Limbaugh as his running mate, i wouldn't vote for him then either.

than damage our chances at winning by bending to a bunch of sore losers who can't handle the cold hard reality:

the Repugs are dying to run against her. She will drive away indie voters. By folding to her, he will appear weak and he will be attacked for it.

Bill would most likely be a totaly liability the whole way through and undermine Obama just as he did Hillary.

Where? Who? I desperately want him to win. I supported him in the primary. I've sent all kinds of money. I have Obama stickers and buttons. I talk about him to everyone, constantly. I just happen to think Hillary will bring much more to the ticket than anyone else in the running.

too much baggage from the Clinton years. Picking her would not help him except to get the PUMA's off his ass.

part of all those that run for office. It is not unique to the Clintons.

Regards

Our side? Not so much.

People, get used to it. Hillary is NOT going to be the VP candidate for several hundred really good reasons, starting with her trashing of Obama, her massive negatives, her Washington insider status, and the prospect of having Bill as the campaign's loose cannon.

really grabs my attention. But mostly its a dead fish. Perhaps if they got out there and did some campaigning, slammed McCain with the same tenacity as the opposition, and became more aggressive, Obama would be doing better in the polls. From my perspective, the Obama campain is blowing it with its complacent, lifeless strategy. I'm not convinced Hillary would do anything for such a lame campaign.

and get on with the damned convention.

The concern threads are playing right into the MSM's doomsday polls and scary stories about McCain pulling ahead.

:eyes:

of the term "concern threads" or "concern trolls". Isn't it natural to be concerned when this country has been in the shitter (in every way imaginable) for the last eight years, and we are only a point or two ahead? SOMETHING is wrong, and we should pretend it isn't? Really?
BTW, I voted for Obama in the primary, and will support him as long as I draw breath (for some reason, this has become necessary to add at then end of some posts around here).

But there's just no talking to Obama triumphalists. They are so deeply insecure, they just do this:

Except they add blinders to the get-up.

Regards

Ironically enough, it is that very failure to realize that we are the same team that will make victory in November more difficult than it should have been.

Such mindless triumphalism is an embarrassment to sane Obama supporters.

For reasons that have been enumerated over and over and over.

I don't believe Obama is sitting around with his thumb up his ass. I just don't.

I don't believe he's clueless about who he's up against.

I don't believe there's any evidence to show us that Hillary Clinton will add value to the campaign when she has talked up the opposition.

The latest Zogby poll claims that there's a perception that McCain will be a better steward of the economy. What earthly sense does it make to add a VP the Repubs can point to as running up the largest campaign debt in history?

McCain tries to hammer Obama on weak military/foreign policy. What does Hillary Clinton add to this? The Tuzla/Bosnia video? A trumped-up claim to being influential in Ireland?

So, per my original subject line: the only thing I want Obama to hurry up and do is announce his VP pick, hopefully not HRC for many reasons, and continue to execute his campaign strategy. I'm as impatient as anyone else to counteract the McCain negativity.

:wtf: Hillary was first lady and went to other countries hmm... that sounds like it would help foreign policy. Want experience lets see Hillary brings that too and I'm an Obama supporter in case you want to know but I'm not a hater like you!

It's absolutely ridiculous.

like it or not, that's whats happening and you cant do a damn thing to stop it.

It's just like watching a car wreck in slow motion.

Obama needs Hillary like a fish needs a bicycle.

...but the Democrats do. The Republicans need more Clinton despisers, like many who post here.

thats untrue.

Would love to have the Clintons on our team, but alas they are only on Team Clinton. It's about them, not the Dem Party.

Obama didn't accidentally use the pronoun "he" and Joe Biden didn't accidentally say "guy" yesterday.

They are toying with McCain and throwing the GOP off course until the last moment. McCain will not be able to choose a woman now to be his VP because when Obama announces it's Hillary, it will be too late.

It's Hillary.

...get Hillary as your VP.

Watch me and millions of others drop our efforts like you've never seen before. It's that simple.

Um. I agree and we need puppies to calm things down.

I'd be shocked if he grants her the VP slot.

wanted Hillary (18 million actually voters). A lot of people who are polled never vote!

Yes, that is for sure. Can't argue with that. We may just disagree slightly as to what it is she would be bringing.

The Obamanites don't understand the big deal about experience, this is killing Obama. He needs to be a true leader and choose Hillary as Veep.

Nah- I'll just laugh.

Sorry to say. If Hillary is on the ticket. He has NO chance here. I believe that to be the case in somewhere like VA and CO too.

:rofl: