When did this "key jangling" nonsense start, anyway?

When was the post at Kos put up?

Interesting:

http://getdrunkandvote4mccain.com/archive/dems-to-jangle-keys-at-pow-mccain

We need to see some large signs that say "TRAITOR HANOI JOHN - THE SONGBIRD OF VIETNAM" - that would be way better, and truthful too.

What I've been saying. Who cares how many houses the schmuck has? HES A TRAITOR!

So it's not merely an attack but proof of the truth

They're all over the net.

and it would never ever work. That would just translate into Dems hating on a distinguished veteran and hating the troops and Obama would be forced to denounce it time and time again. Even if all that is true, which I don't buy most of it since it was started up by Bush's campaign in 2000, Republicans live by a different standard. What's bad for Dems to do, is perfectly fine for Republicans. Denigrating John Kerry's service, even though it was a lies, is much different than attacking the sacred cow of John McCain as a POW. Jangling keys to make fun of his houses is not a big deal, but going after him as a traitor is not going to work at all.

Your method hasn't been working. We know going after a candidate's strong suit is a winning ploy in politics.

But if you think attacking John McCain's POW service is a winning strategy that's pretty foolish. They'll make whomever does it look like a screeching maniac. His strong suit isn't really his biography, it's the myths his biography has created. Like that John McCain is strong on national security. You take away that strength and he's done, you make this a referendum on John McCain being a POW and you'll have to deal with this guy a president for at least 4 years.

:woohoo: :hi: :hug:

:hi:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :hi: :hug:

:eyes:

I'm interested in finding out WHERE this bullshit really started.

That's why. I thought I made that pretty clear in my OP.

But there you go. There it is. That's why.

Why doesn't John McCain know how many houses he has?
Because he has a staff to carry all those keys!

I though people were rattling keys because of the many houses!!!

No sign of keys at the convention yet.

:think:

Howie Klein.

Honestly, this jangling keys thing is a total non-issue. It doesn't matter whether people do it either way. Nobody will care, it won't make a difference, it's not going to change the election one way or another. There is no traction for it either way, other than it is kind of funny to make fun of McCain having so many houses like that.

Do you know if he mentioned it earlier?


Sorry... but when an unbelievably stupid idea that is guaranteed to blow up in our faces is pushed THIS hard around here... my antennae go up.

Not exactly sure when, maybe Saturday? It is a stupid, kind of funny, I doubt it would gather any traction in any manner though. Some RW blogs might flip out about it, maybe even Hannity or Limbaugh, but it's a big stretch between making fun of a guy's houses and denigrating his service. They'd mostly be preaching to the choir on that. I just don't see even if it did come back up that it would have an impact on Obama at all.

You're talking about the theory... fuck the theory... it's not happening... it's a bunch of idiotic bullshit that has apparently NO basis in reality... I doubt any of the people beating the drum so loudly for it are even at the convention to make it happen... which only makes it even more laughable and sad.

I'm only interested in where it started.

When you call it "idiot bullshit" and saying it will blow up in Dems faces that's giving your opinion on the theory. Why cuss at me? Hell I was just answering your question and discussing what you brought up.

Here it is, from three days ago I don't know if it's the first, but that's the first I heard of it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howie-klein/an-idea-whose-time-has-co_b_120876.html

Get it now?

And yeah... that's from Saturady... thanks.

When I answered and you came off like you were all pissed off at me.

:)

Not pissed at you... pissed at the ... whatevers.

I must be touchy today, lol. :) I know you're awesome. Please. :)

What has happened is that outside DU someone came up with the idea of keying McCain's house gaffe. Presumably the guy with that idea did not know about McCain's PTSD thing.

However, some RIGHTISTS found the incredibly brilliant "let's taunt the POW about his time in captivity" idea on DU that pre-dated the house gaffe and are using that as proof that some Dems were actually planning to taunt a POW over his time in captivity.

which personally I think if the guy still as PTSD he shouldn't be in the white house. Now it just seems like fodder for the right-wing media which at this point is only a sensation on the internets

before the housegate gaffe even happened. Check the link above.

Weird... considering it seems to have no basis in reality.

I wonder what the point is.

The point was just to get people talking about McCain's possible PTSD. There never was any plan for people to jingle keys at the convention. The whole idea got ruined because rather than getting McCain's mental instability out there, the board was totally clogged by a couple of nervous nellies screaming about purple band-aids.

And so now the story is that there was never a plan to do this at the convention? So you missed the part where the SEIU was "reportedly" sending lots of keys to the convention?

My... so much misinformation out there about this... it's very interesting.

Its like there are several herds here, and sometimes they stamped in different directions (toward each other often) resulting in a colossal train wreck. The keys things is a good example of that, which is why I said to drop it. Continuing to bring it up makes the excitable ones here get going again.

If you want a larger look at the herds causing friction, look at the continuing Obama-Clinton rift and the stupid agitators (in both camps) egging it on. Its been going on for months and, IMO, shows no sign of stopping.

It's groupthink and I agree with you... I wouldn't have started this thread if it weren't for that "IF WE DON'T JANGLE KEYS WE LOSE" thread.

I like balance. :P

I also like the idea of more people being made aware that this dumbass idea, which is being pushed so hard here for whatever reason, is more than likely not even real.

Which, weirdly, I find a certain level of comfort in that unifying notion. For all our differences with the other side, we're the same by how easily manipulated we are by our respective parties.

For example, The first night saw three amazing speaches. Jesse, Teddy and Michelle. Only Michelle wasn't retreading the same old stuff (Teddy lifted several sections from previous speeshes, and Jackson Jr tapped both Dr. King and his dad several times) and we loved it. Those statements have certain triggers that have meaning for us and get us all riled up. Even though, nothing NEW was said by either man, we still ate it hook, line and sinker.

Michelle, too was retreading material, but its material that's been common the Obamas for a long time. It seems fresh because few in the country have heard them say it. But Michelle's points were no different at all that Obama's keynote speech in Boston 2004. Not that they are bad points, I'm with the Change meme, and the equality meme, and the hard work meme 1000%. I'm on board.

But on another level I know we're being lead by these concepts that have been a part of Dems for longer than I've been alive.

The same goes for the Republicans. They'll go out in MN and trot out the terra, terra, terra game. They'll say 9/11 about 500 times, and they'll tell us that if Obama is elected Osama Bin Laden will be our Secretary of State. Why because that's the read meat that fires up their base. And spitting fire about social issues is our red meat.

The Keys thing, to me, represents the very deeply repressed desire to get in the trenches with the GOP and have a knife fight. For 8 years Democrats have been spoiling for an epic battle with the GOP and they (and I) have felt that our party's bosses have been unwilling to have that battle. Folks here are crazy to unleash Defcon 5 on the Republicans and they're sick of being held back. So stuff like the Keys thing comes up as the ulgy side of that desire for a total bloodletting.

We need to stay in control of that. The nation perceives us as the ones with the solutions, the calm ones, the nice ones. To fly out of the cages like insane tigers will really turn the electorate off to us. Politics is perception.

We're shockingly lemming-like, with the groupthink.

Hence the strange comfort I find in it. It reminds me that our opponents are human beings too. Full of hopes and fears just like anybody else. And sometimes I lose sight of that, and I think we, here, also lose site of that.

We define them as their actions / decisions... and de-humanize them in the process.

It's toxic.

Did you see anyone with keys at the convention yesterday?

And I'm not sure what you're talking about with supporters with a more active thread. You have started more threads and posted more posts about this issue in the past two days than anyone else I've seen here.

There were supporters posting two and three threads each, but you only noticed my one thread?

Yeah... I bet.

Have a good day.

Which I think had a very good point. It's not about the jangling keys specifically, or that we will literally lose because we didn't jangle keys. It's just that any time a potentially funny, gutsy tactic comes up, a million naysayers come along to censor people and waste tons of time and breath worrying about what "they" will say and what "they" will think. That attitude is one of the reasons we lose. That kind of safe, scared thinking is why we lose. Luckily I don't see any of that attitude on display within the Obama campaign themselves. They know what they have to do to win, thank god.

This one was made up out of whole cloth and marketed to suckers here as a coordinated campaign that that SEIU was involved with.

The stench of trolls is all over this bullshit "issue".


And sorry, but IIRC you were involved in several of the way too many threads yesterday... I think I'll go have a look.

edit: Uh huh. Yeah. Thought so. :eyes:

I have no problem with any thread or post that attacks McCain, regardless of the tactics taken. I DO have a problem with threads and posts that do nothing but criticize other DUers and insinuate that they're freepers.

But you just claimed not to have seen much but the other thread.

Bye.

I think some people have been looking for a way to get back ever since. I'm torn. I think it's funny, though if it truly triggers PTSD, I don't think that's a good thing. I detest McCain, but there are lots of others with PTSD whose service I respect.

This is the first thread I remember about it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6666480

People were joking about jangling keys at him to trigger his ptsd. I mentioned that instead of that, we should just start a rumor that it was going to happen and then loudly denounce the jangling by saying that it was cruel to pick on the mentally ill, the idea being to constantly talk about how McCain is mentally unfit for the presidency while seeming to take the high road.

Somebody told me to post a diary to Kos about it, but I don't know how to do that. Then I deleted the original post.

Here's a thread where I reposted my original message. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6740875

A few days later the board erupted with all of the key stuff and I got the suspicion that somebody did what I suggested. There was never any evidence of any real organized key plan at the convention but a few people such as yourself created such a huge stink about it that it totally overshadowed the humor and point of the original idea and devolved into pointless bickering and infighting.

Again, I'm not saying that somebody took the idea from my post or anything, but I think something similar happened. Or maybe some right wingers floated the rumor hoping to make us look bad. Who knows. The point is that talking about the possibility of jangling keys on DU isn't hurting anybody. Constantly griping against the idea is a total waste of time and space though and distracts from what should be the real focus: McCain has potentially crippling mental issues that should disqualify him from the Presidency.

"The point is that talking about the possibility of jangling keys on DU isn't hurting anybody. Constantly griping against the idea is a total waste of time and space though and distracts from what should be the real focus: McCain has potentially crippling mental issues that should disqualify him from the Presidency."

So talking in support of it is fine... but saying you disagree is bad? Is that it?

On the other hand, why did so many people immediately buy into it with no evidence? That's kind of scary.

But yeah, I do think that talking about jingling keys at the convention to trigger McCain's PTSD within the context of people just shooting the shit on DU is fine and even helpful. The more that people talk about McCain's health and mental issues, the more that narrative gets out there and damages his image. And jingling keys to bring up the house idea is kind of funny. It's not great but it's certainly better than a button or a sticker and it sure as hell wouldn't have cost us the election.

Taking time to criticize other Democrats instead of talking about McCain... calling people out as freepers... going on and on about taking the moral high road and connecting DUers to the people who wore purple bandaids... yeah, that's not helping anybody. It's just a waste of energy all around.