I have to say. This is the most bizarre VP choice I've seen in my 35 years

or so of interest in American electoral politics--with the possible exception of Admiral Stockdale, who ran with Ross Perot in 1992 (and who at least had something more-or-less equivalent to national defense experience). It's as if Rove and his band of thugs sent out the call: find us someone with a vagina! Anyone! Um, hello....? I think it's an incredibly condescending and, frankly, foolish choice: if McCain's argument is that Obama's not ready to lead, then what can we say about Sarah Palin? Can you imagine Sarah Palin debating Joe Biden? Good lord--he'll have to explain the questions to her (the headlines: Biden Talks Down to What's-her-name). Could McMansions' campaign have screwed the pooch any more thoroughly? Is THIS the judgment we can expect from McCain? He wants someone who does not know what the VP DOES to be a heartbeat away from the presidency? Oy, caramba.

<<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww>>

Palin is a mother, a creationist; she will soften McCain and reassure the fundies. Pick designed for the base.

Obama chose someone with vast experience and evident smarts, ready to step into the Oval Office at a moment's notice and hit the ground running. McCain chose a neophyte as a sop to his wingnut base (and big oil, btw). And McCain wants to run on judgment?

with Down Syndrome at home while she campaigns across the country? I don't think so.

It's really between her, her husband, and their consciences. None of my biz. But no, I can't imagine that this detail will play well in fundie-world.

We don't need to. The question is what the fundies will think about it. I think they won't like it.

see, now it makes sense.

Who looks like a MILF in an xxx movie. His pick doesn't look very Presidential.

Whether people here liked it or not, McCain had gone kitchen sink and over the course of a month and a half had drug this thing into a close race.

The two biggest clubs he beat up on Obama with to this point have been "experience" and "not ready to be Commander in Chief" and SOMEHOW he managed to find a way to pick someone who GLARINGLY falls shorter in both areas than BO. Going to be REAL hard for McCain to take those shots now, in fact, his camp ALREADY is on the defensive and reacting about her "experience."

This pick showed in SPADES McCain's issues, and ago too big to take his best choice (Romney) and a real mysoginistic streak.

Whether people here liked it or not, McCain had gone kitchen sink and over the course of a month and a half had drug this thing into a close race.

The two biggest clubs he beat up on Obama with to this point have been "experience" and "not ready to be Commander in Chief" and SOMEHOW he managed to find a way to pick someone who GLARINGLY falls shorter in both areas than BO. Going to be REAL hard for McCain to take those shots now, in fact, his camp ALREADY is on the defensive and reacting about her "experience."

This pick showed in SPADES McCain's issues, and ago too big to take his best choice (Romney) and a real mysoginistic streak.

worse choice than palin. by miles.

In the sense that the wingnut base would almost surely jump ship if Lieberman was the pick. But if McCain wins, God help us, and then croaks in office--a scenario that's not that hard to envision--well, holy crap. President Palin? Really? The VP choice is the first early test of a candidate's judgment: what factors do they weigh when making a decision? What's most important? Politics or policy? We know McCain's answer to that question now. Not that there was ever any doubt.

If we had only known then what we know now.

Expectations will be incredibly high for him and very low for Palin. The Republicans are going to portray Biden's strength as bullying a poor, defenseless woman on national television. It will be ridiculous, sickening, sexist, and effective.

I still think Palin's a terrible choice for McCain, though. How can he possibly argue the importance of experience now? Given his age and increasing tendency toward "senior moments," Palin's extreme lack of experience - far more glaring than what they've said about Obama - will be front-and-center from now through the election.

I think Biden has to shake off any hesitation he might feel, though, and go for the throat. If he makes her look like a buffoon, he may seem mean in the process, but she'll still look like a buffoon.

Look, if she wants to be VP SHE HAS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THE HARDEST HITS! If she can't, she's a pathetic piece of excrement for accepting the nomination under false pretenses - She has to be READY TO LEAD ON DAY 1 if necessary, she can't say 'boo fucking hoo, that man was mean to me'.

Make her look like a tool. If she sobs, you release ads saying "John McCain is 72. Sarah Palin would be a heartbeat away from the Presidency under John McCain".

The republicans aren't going to bring it up anymore, because of McCain's choice. It's not like they LOST the experience arguement for goodness sake. They never had it. They let it go and neutralized the argument from the Obama campaign that experience isn't as important as judgement and character. The Obama campaign won't bring it up because it will backfire.

Experience is either important or not. Can't be both to simple minded citizens who don't read the differences in which way experience matters and with what specific circumstances. That is too complex really for an average person who will rely on headlines on their local tv station news program. Media certainly will not all of a sudden inform and educate the public. It's classic simple speak for our citizens, which we know, are attracted to the spoon fed "facts" by the media.

I trust the Obama campaign considered a woman as McCain's pick and hope they act smartly and swiftly. They need to use simple speak, as a response to Palin "being a responsible choice/judgement by McCain" (if she needed to take over as free leader of this country.) His choice is a reaction, not a plan. That's what his first important decision was based on: Reaction, NOT a plan.

part of Obama's line of attack. Obama loses nothing, but McCain loses his most compelling talking point, IMO. And that seems like a HUGE blunder to me; it would be the equivalent of Obama picking Condi Rice as his running mate, and trying to run as the ticket of change. McCain's been trying to run as the experience candidate--with some effect--and he just threw that away.

Obama is running on judgement and character, which is in response / or even pre-emptive to the no experience attack from McCain. Agreed, it wasn't part of Obama's attack but it certainly is his STRENGTH (judgement and character) and McCain campaign is trying to water down Obama's strength.


What do you think? Attacking your opponents strength is an effective strategy, if, IF... it works.:shrug:

on Obama's judgment or character. It strikes me as further evidence of McCain's flawed judgment: it's a choice that highlights Obama's principle talking point in fluorescent green. I think McCain was bullied into this one by Rove et al: he wanted Lieberman, by all accounts.

Indeed it is further evidence of McCain's flawed judgement. :toast:

doesn't that undercut the argument she's ready for this position?

I mean, if she can't handle Joe Biden, how can she handle Vladamir Putin?

I think she'll have to be very aggressive in the debate, or risk doing an Edwards-esque Bambi-in-the-headlights disappearing act. And that'll be very risky for her--the more she talks, the more she's likely to step in it.

He's pretty savvy about these things by now. Just watch.

The VP spot is very overrated. In McCain's case, due to his age, it might not seem quite as insignificant. Generally few vote for the President due to the VP choice. McCain wanted a Washington outsider without any ties to the Bush administration. Someone who might be able to peel away a few Clinton supporters (because she is a female should help)and keep the suspicious conservative voters somewhat happy. Her inexperience won't hurt her because it's a VP spot and Obama doesn't have much experience either, so no one is going to use that against her effectively.

McSame had to use. Now, it's gone. And sane women don't vote for a ticket SIMPLY because any woman is on it.
Sarah Palin does not come anywhere near filling Hillary Clinton's pumps. The only women who will vote for this ticket, would have anyway.

Look at Cheney; he's been the ventriloquist to Bush's dummy for eight years (unfortunately the ventriloquist is no genius, either). If elected, McCain will be the oldest person ever to be inaugurated as President: he's had cancer and is taking Ambien for a sleep disorder--and that's just the stuff we know about. Shouldn't the oldest guy ever to prospectively take the office pick a VP who's ready to jump in feet-first?

I just feel McCain took away one of his biggest talking points.

This shows more about John McCain than anything else.

McCain is not stable.

Who's he trying to pander to? Disaffected Hillary supporters (all three of them)? Big oil? His wingnut base? He's clearly trying to reach out to undecideds, but which ones? I suppose it helps to solidify the fundie vote (though a lot of hardcore fundies would have real problems with a woman as president), but if that's the plan, why not go with Huckabee? I think there's a lot of potential for severe unintended consequences here: Palin will turn off more moderate indies and undecideds than she'll bring in, once they get a look at her.

She will be made a fool of on a national stage. I also think it will expose the remaining theocons as the idiots they are and take care of that problem for future elections. They have no chance and I think O and Joe will win in a landslide over this.

look like a fool, she did it herself. Did you see her speech? She didn't even get near telling us why she should be VP or wanted to be VP.

because she is a woman crap? they are going to make this about gender.

Biden will tear her a new one, regardless. But he'll be very polite about it. You know, if she's going to be VP (and maybe president some day, God forbid) she'll have to be able to play with the big boys on the national stage. That's what it's all about.

pretty unclear to me how it will play out

Palin and Biden on a stage together. An elder statesman in the prime of his power vs. Katie Couric. Biden's attack dog nature is neutralized. Advantage: McCain.

Palin inexperienced? McCain turns the arguments around on Obama. Advantage: Depends. Can Obama-Biden frame the arguments so that this can't happen?

Palin hacks off Republican establishment. McCain's maverick nature is enhanced. Nobody in Republican machine except the most power-hungry Rovians works for McCain. Advantage: Draw.

Palin undercuts Obama's history-making campaign somewhat. (History will be made either way, but Obama's is much stronger). Advantage: Obama.

Palin ran and won in Alaska on a throw-the-bums-out campaign. Can't attack her there.

It sets up a 49th-50th state rivalry. Friendly rivalry.

Palin's ready to ankle science education by hobbling it with creationism, but vetoed a ban on same-sex couples getting state benefits. The religious right HATES cognitive dissonance and their votes are depressed because of it. Advantage: Obama.

Palin has more executive branch experience than Obama or Biden combined -- heck, make that Obama, Biden, AND McCain combined. Advantage: Obama. The experience argument is demolished for McCain.

Palin's appeal to Hillary voters is surface only. It's actually almost insulting to them, expecting them to move to McCain just because Palin is a woman. Is it about a trophy or about advancing issues that matter to women? Bashing the history-making argument but forces women to confront the very thing Hillary asked them to consider. Advantage: Obama.

Unless Palin starts showing some hit-the-ground-running moxie and capability, every way she helps McCain just isn't enough.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/29/sarah-palin-former-beauty_n_122400.html

The above is a collection of photos of Palin. The eighth one (click the eighth dot) is a photo of her sitting on top of a bearskin rug with a giant bear head in her Governor's office. Her father shot it.

Colbert should have some fun with that.

There also are some beauty queen photos.

Lieberman - Jewish and perceived (wrongly) as a Democrat
Romney - Mormon with too many houses
Ridge - abortion stance too weak and his deregulation of energy industry in PA would haunt him
Pawlenty - not known and doesn't have a vagina. Wouldn't bring in new votes.
Hutchison- I thought he'd have chosen her. She had the experience Palin lacked and from a big state, and her voice is much less stident than Palin's. Frankly, I'm glad he didn't choose her. She was the one I feared he would choose.
Palin - She meets his critiera as a pick, but boy is she inexperienced. I really am shocked. It really indicates a desperation on McCain's part to attract female voters and younger voters and his base and staunch Catholics as well.

I really think if Biden doesn't make faces like Gore did at the 2000 debates he'll trounce her as someone who's a nice person but is vastly unprepared to deal with taking over the Presidency.

But yeah, so much for the "Obama's inexperienced" line.

use Palin to woo Hillary supporters to his side, and then when they steal the election again, the talking heads can say "Those disgruntled Hillary supporters came out in droves to vote for Palin." I know, I know, :tinfoilhat: I can't help it. They're liars, thieves, murderers. I no longer find anything too farfetched when it comes to them.

not all of us women are ignorant. I hope it backfires in his face.

:tinfoilhat: The MSM will need an excuse for the "surprise win that defied exit polls yet again"

I think it was really all about the news-cycle, and trying to steal Obama's thunder. If making the whole country pucker its brows and say :wtf:, then I guess it's a winner. But it sure as hell doesn't say anything great about McCain's judgment, or the seriousness with which he's approaching his potential presidency.

Even if they don't steal it THIS time and Obama wins this problem will not go away until we reform HOW we vote. If we continue to hold our heads in the sand, sooner or later it will bite us again BIG time.

And given his age there is a real possibility she will be called to serve as President. haha. Yeah. McCain has made a giant massive epic misstep have no doubt about that.


With his VP choice, Americans everywhere have just vowed to NEVER allow McCain anywhere NEAR the oval office.