May I have your attention? Lose the Palin Baby story. It's a setup. I smell Rove.

Pure Rove. The woman has so many negatives - Bridge to Nowhere, Troopergate, Pebble Mine proposition, etc. - that she will crash & burn if she is left to fly under her own power.

A classic Rove strategy would be to set up a false issue, or even a true one, the more salacious the better, and get everyone's attention on that so they ignore the real issues that render her unfit for office. Then he finds a way to scuttle the salacious story, as with the Bush cocaine and AWOL stories, and they're home free.

Please don't fall for it. Let Drudge do what he wants, but let's keep our hands off it. It can only hurt us in the long run.

stay away...there is no winning that one even if true

There's no ignoring it.

:rofl:

It goes straight downhill from there. Comedy gold!

Then took on a life of its own, drawing in the most paranoid and gullible of us along the way.

:hi:

At best, it's a distraction from the issues that voters care about.

Democrats do better with voters when we stay on the issues and Republicans do better when they can create a meaningless distraction.

That's how they handled the Rather story, which was true.

The cocaine story they planted with Jim Hatfield, who published it in Fortunate Son, and whom they knew they could destroy because of his old felony record. Then he "suicided" while working on a second Bush book.

Obviously, it's something the Obama campaign and its surrogates can't publicly mention, but there's no reason why we shouldn't.

I think circulating this story is unwise and not necessary. Leave that kind of dirt to the Rove and the Republicans-- and again point out how they thrive on slime. There are many better concrete issues that exist in the public record to question. We should I admire how far a PTA mom can go in American politics, but would hope she might take a bit more time to develop. Further in terms of issues and stances, as progressives we can not support her.

which evaluated recent national political campaigns and it clearly supports your point.

is already done, and it gets about .01% as much attention if that, as in Rather's case.

That doesn't work for me.

However, I think it's a losing proposition to make an issue of it.

and lack of caring.

Not qualities we need in a leader.

I agree with you that having no regard for her unborn baby should be talked about again and again. I saw somewhere where she had supposedly been in contact with her doctor but I wonder what kind of doctor would have a woman flying whether it was her water breaking or her leaking amniotic fluid. She didn't even inform the airlines either and her actions affected a lot of people, the most important, her baby. It doesn't sound compassionate to anyone I know.

Until it can be proven she is really the grandmother, IMHO it's best to leave that part alone until there is some proof that can be thrown in her face. Even then her fundie base will spin it to a positive. Endangering the baby's life by her actions has more meat.

The grandmother story smells like Rove and I hope it blows up in his ugly mug. The endangering the baby by flying sounds like a typical neocon.

We need to focus on the delivery story.

up you assertion. From what I've read she was in contact with her physician and that makes her decisions about her baby and her body between her and her doctor. Let it go, what do you think Obama would think about all of this nastiness?

Privacy laws keep him from commenting.

She has already been proven to be a liar about the bridge to nowhere funding. So she could be lying about this too.

Then the doctor is a fool (if true), particularly since it was a Downs Syndrome baby. This is not a pro life decision that she made. It was reckless.

Sarah Palin is the grandmother.

She's caught and issues a statement something like:

"My daughter made a mistake. I didn't want to see her deal with the stigma of being an unwed mother. I want her to have a normal, happy life. In retrospect, what I did wasn't honest, but I did it because I love my daughter."

NOW who's the most sympathetic person on the face of the planet?

That said, I think the "story" is ridiculous.

Fail.

:eyes:

Never, which is why they thought they could get away with this supremely bad nomination.

I said that even if she WAS the grandmother...and she isn't...that it could be spun to frame her as a sympathetic character.

You respond, asking why, if it could work to her advantage, hadn't she made it part of her official bio.

I answer that she hasn't made it part of her bio because it isn't true.

You respond by claiming that Republicans lie for political advantage.


So, your position is that this lie, even if it was true, could never be spun to make her sympathetic...and the proof of this is that she hasn't made the lie part of her official bio?

:eyes:

including this one, but I realize that some of us won't believe anything until the CIA-approved media broadcasts it 24/7.

By your statement, you wouldn't believe them if they said the sun would rise in the east tomorrow...and that's just silly.

Screw that shit.

...and nobody has been able to logically refute that danger.

Read upstream. The post you've been responding to was exactly what I said it was...a claim that even if this story turns out to be true, it could be spun to make her a sympathetic character.

Putting it in her bio would defeat that purpose.

You think she gives a crap about protecting anyone but herself?

See my response to you above.

Enough.

mkay....

It all goes to her character, her trustworthyness and Gramps' total lack of judgement.

This is all pertinent when you're seating the next members of the supreme court and you censure libraries, teach creationism and block legal abortion.

If she's going to judge me morally, she's gonna get if from me NOW while I can still try to keep her hands off my uterus.

I agree...she's the VP candidate...attack her.

...but do it on the multitude of REAL issues that exist.

There are doctors here saying her story is crap.

The point is, we don't have all of the facts.

Actually, there is a real story there--the one about her flying back to AK to have the baby. They are now muddying the waters with the bogus grandchild story, and we are playing along. The two stories will get conflated deliberately, which is a typical Rove ploy.

investigate it to determine its veracity or lack thereof.

If it's untrue, we won't be seen as the vile smear mongers like we view the people who spread the hateful lies about Obama.

If it's true, it will be covered and the story will become well known.

It's gotten enough attention and buzz, and I feel our perpetrating it will only reflect poorly on us. And make us seem desperate -- again, how we view those who spew the Obama untruths.

Remember the National Guard story? Rove leaks 1 or 2 documents "proving" the baby is actually her daughter's, a major news organization runs with it, and then that "proof" is easily debunked. BAM! The left wing media attacked Sarah Palin over her special needs baby, smearing her underage daughter in the process, and now Palin is untouchable because any legit look into real issues (Troopergate, her policies, etc) are just "another example of the left-wing smear campaign against Sarah Palin".

This story is political kryptonite. Even if it was true, there is NOTHING you can find to "prove" this beyond such a doubt that Palin would actually fess up. She would play the victim and it would work.

That's the way they work.

Another example is how they defuzed the Brissard-Dasquie book (Forbidden Truth) by putting out another French "investigatory" book on 9-11 and then conflating the two.

Maybe the Enquirer will look into it (and it shocks me that I actually said that, but they've gained some credibility as of late.)

Enron stuff for example.

Smart.

Concerned about DU's image! Almost as if you ran this like it was a magazine or a publication. here's a free clue.. you don't.

The baby story works in McCain's favor because we lose focus on John McCain and the issues.

And it will work. This story is a non-starter and is the equivalent of the "Obama is a Secret Muslim" smear. This kind of stuff turns off swing voters, people. Do you really think the mainstream media is going to take this seriously? Or do you think the headlines are going to be "Obama supporters accuse Palin's 16 year old daughter of covering up pregnancy." Do you realize how crazy that sounds to 99% of the country?

I understand how appealing it is... I would love to believe this stuff. But it's spurious nonsense and so easily debunked that the Repubs are more than happy to let the left run with it because it just makes us look like tinfoil lunatics.

There is more than enough dirt on Palin where it counts -- her policies. Stay on message, attack her judgment. Conspiracy Theories are a one-way ticket to losing.

She may not be stupid, but every indication is of an incurious and uneducated mind.

What books have you read, Sarah? What do you know of history?

On Friday, someone mentioned that the oldest daughter was pregnant (I think they heard it on Thomas Hartmann). From there, it morphed into 'Whose baby is it?' and is now allover the place. There is a story there but if it must pushed, let the tabloids do it. I feel bad partaking and the only thing that really is an issue is Palin's lack of judgment. If she's so reckless with her own life (and that of her unborn child), how will she treat the lives of others? But, at the end of the day, this is a red herring to keep people from noticing her massive blunders in Alaska; by the time people get wind of that, they'll have scrubbed the files.

or whatever to have baby. ALL extremely poor judgment putting her baby's life at risk as she runs on "real mom". pro life. these are words out of her mouth. IF it is her baby she needs to answer for being so incredibly stupid. she is a step from pres that will life and death decisions. IF this is an example, she fails, 100% without argument

That control should focus on two facts:

1.) This started as a local Alaskan story. Bloggers with Google skills found the story. Currently, the RW media is spinning this as dirt uncovered by Democratic party operatives that descended on Alaska.

1.) The VERY questionable Texas-to-Alaska trip after her water broke is a story all by itself and was the cause of much of the Alaskan rumors to begin with. see: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6860560

for sniffing out an obvious lie. Works every time--for them. :crazy:

oops..

I hope we let go of the child stuff. It is rather icky territory, fraught with salacious details that can keep people pumping out threads, but also leaves us in the gossip territory. Complaining about her reproductive management. As you suggest, let the tabloid types have that bag of junk.


We have more substantial objections to her candidacy:

Her very light experience -- town of 5,000 and state of under 700,000.

Leaving the little town with a huge debt of $20 million.

The investigations of her ethics as a governor. Pro-Bridge then Anti-Bridge. Trooper-gate. Dairy Farm subsidy.

Big Oil mindset-- Fossil fuels all the way. Unconcerned about global climate crisis.

Fundamentalist, Wahabi Christian -- Creationism in science class. Hopes to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Okay, those of us DUers who have the power to spread the story into the mainstream press should be careful.

But don't tell me not to investigate a story. That is fucking bullshit. And don't tell me not to ask questions and comment. As if the Mainstream media gives a shit what CaptJasHook or 20,000 other DUers are saying.

When did he set it all up? Must have been almost a year ago. That man thinks of everything.
:eyes:

and add in some juicy false leads. Then when others chase those down and publicize them, he splashes in with a big news story about the false accusation.

In the Rather case, the stories about Dubya's draft dodging and preferential treatment were true. Documents existed confirming that. But Rove slipped some faked editions of those documents to Rather and directed his own bloggers to "discover the forgery" and blew the story up enough to get Rather fired.


Rove's no genius. He's just trying to follow his heroes like Lee Atwater. He's very willing to suspend his ethics to achieve his goals. The ends justify the means for him.

If you have read Uncle Remus, this is what is called a "tar baby"

...then spring Babygate on the world for a "straw that broke the camel's back" effect.

Either way, if this issue ever gets legs in the corporate press, it's lose-lose for McLame.

The way things are going, I am beginning to wonder if McLame is intentionally trying to lose the election. He insulted every Rethugligan of national stature by choosing an unknown wackness from Wasilla to be his candidate for the second highest office in our country. Then he is forced to cite her PTA experience as evidence that she is fit for the position. (I heard him do that yesterday on the CBS (I think) Sunday morning talk show.)

Either McLame is certifiably senile or he really does want to put our country first by making sure that Rethugs go into the November election 20 points down in the polls. If it is the latter, then he truly is an American hero worthy of the respect many of us accorded him before the past year.

two things: First, I don't think much of anyone out in the real world cares about what we do or say here on DU. It's a slightly disturbing measure of our out-of-whack sense of self-importance that we sometimes think they do. We can rail and rattle on about pretty much any damn thing here, and it ain't gonna make the evening news. Never does, never has, probably never will. Second, salacious rumors about the opposition are GOOD. Doesn't matter if they're true or not: what matters is whether they bear repeating. This one's sexy enough that people seem to glom onto it and not want to let go. It's not a Rovian plant--the "Obama's a muslium" emails are Rovian plants. The Palin baby story is Rove's worst nightmare. Now, will the Rove disciples now running McCain's campaign try to neutralize it by passing fake "proof" to some credulous reporter and then debunking it within hours on freerepublic? Maybe. But until that happens, there's no harm in poking at it for awhile, IMO. Somebody will get burned by this story, and you never know--it may turn out to be McCain. It sure looks like so far his Rove-clones haven't got Kkkarl's mojo.

Particularly the one about our delusions of significance. I guess I wasn't thinking so much about DU as about the whole left side of the blogosphere, which actually is increasing in significance, at least to the extent that it provides straw for the RW pundits to build their straw men out of.

I'm quite sure neither Obama nor anyone closely connecte with his campaign will touch this, but again, the national information-processing channel has a very limited capacity, and a story like this tens to plug it up to the detriment of more ultimately useful material. I think the flight-from-Texas (Bad Mother) story is true, and the grandma story may be the false overlay on it, which they will be able to discredit. The strategy which I have seen them use over and over is to discredit some small part of a story and thereby be able to taint the whole story. They often even plant the part they intend to discredit. I think that's what happened to Rather, and I think they're going to try to turn this whole Teas-flight story into the grandmother story and then discredit it.

Incidentally, I'm rarely so attached to my theories or positions that I don't welcome disagreement. This thread has helped me clarify my thinking about the whole baby story, and, as the preceding paragraph shows, I now see it somewhat differently than I did when I made the original post. If we can get the Bad Mother story out without its being contaminated by the Duplicitous Grandma story, that could be a good thing. But it needs to be kept away from the Obama campaign.

Like you said, we have plenty of other disasters and lies to use against Palin. The Baby story is the last card to use...

Nobody pays any attention to the others. If it isn't sallacious, it doesn't sell.

Sheesh.

Even if it is Rove, who fucking cares? It's STILL a craptacular choice, and we need to make sure they pay for it.

Cmon you fucking wusses - try believing in OUR side for a change.

He was supposedly blindsided by this pick, he was pushing Romney apparently. (need citation / links)

They served us so well in 2000 and 2004.

:eyes:

And have been accused of "protecting and defending her" for saying so.

Get out of the way so some of us can engage in the guerilla warfare necessary to win this election!

J

elections in which voter perception that Gore and Kerry were gun-grabbers played a crucial role.

& not fall for the Evil Grandma story. The kid is hers. If you want to push the Bad Mother story, fine--just don't fall for the bit about her covering for her daughter.

sleaze go after it. That is their stock in trade. Besides, look at who Drudge and the Enquirer and others of that ilk have for their audience: people who would be influenced by this over the more substantial issues.

In a way, it is very Rovian. Genuine independents ( weird, I know) who aren't aware of Palin's positions or what such a choice says about McCain get a trip through the rumor mill, nothing conclusive comes up, and her extremist positions ( Dobson et al love this choice) are never exposed.

I say go after her. Especially the fact that she didn't get an abortion!!!! This Repukes are so f*****g scary!

March 10, 2008 - 3:54pm | joanlee
Is Sarah Palin really pregnant?
It is curious that Gov. Palin is not showing when it is "claimed" she is seven months pregnant.

March 11, 2008 - 10:05pm | TruConservative
Is Sarah Palin really pregnant?
Joan-I'm with you. If you look at photos of her last month and this month it doesn't appear that Sarah is pregnant. Could it be that she is covering for someone else in the family? In my day that was common. I knew a friend that was raised by his grandparents.

There may be something to this story but it cannot help Obama. It will only make him, and the Dems, look like we are attacking a mom who tried to protect her daughter, and is now raising a special needs child.

The speculation about incest is completely over the top and makes us look like idiots.

and people have been falling for it. Man...you think they would get a clue.

is going to contribute to an Obama loss...

Chicken Little lives again!

"What You Do Here Today Determines The Very Future of Our Party, Now GET OUT THERE AND POST!!!!" Coach Moochy 2008

http://news.yahoo.com/story//nm/20080829/bs_nm/palin_energy_dc

She just signed a pipeline deal. This is the big ploy they're going to use in order to gain big votes. Maybe even some of those liberal Hillary votes.

But it's a sin to drill for dependency. We must fight this with continuing discussion on our NEED to immediately begin an emergency drop in carbon emissions. We need renewable, not combustive.

J

wow, that Rove really IS the all powerful Oz now, isn't he?