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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 03:57 PM
Original message
A TX Republican speaks out - A must read

From http://www.americablog.com/2008/09/bush-speechwriterwashington-post.html#disqus_thread



dagan68 1 day ago 1 point
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I have never posted on a liberal blog before - if this is too long or inappropriate - please tell me - I am not sure what is customary. - I hope I do not insult anyone - I just have to get this off my chest.

I have been a long time conservative - a true conservative - and have been horrified by the recent theocratic fascist turn of my beloved Republican Party. I was the Vice-President of the College Republicans in the late 80s at my college.

The Palin pick has absolutely horrified me. For the first time in my life - I donated 1000.00 to a political campaign - that of Senator Obama. Indeed, the donate button on the Obama website was so overwhelmed on his servers last night - it took me till 1:29 AM to get through to donate.

My entire indepedent and/or conservative family - as of my conversations with them this AM - sat through the Palin speech last night slack-jawed. I just felt nauseated. It is a sad day in America when someone can sit and read
prepared talking points - smile as she torpedoes American virtues (Community organizers, etc -- BTW - Whatever
happened to the 1000 Points of Light? - I guess that got snuffed out too in the darkness of Abu Ghraib) and have the
press and media fawn over her all day - and an entire half of the country feel that she is the second coming of
Ronald Reagan - a true conservative - and an awesome leader. Ms Palin - YOU ARE NO RONALD REAGAN - and certainly no Harry Truman as you stated last night.

WOW

I have come to peace with the demise of the country. We are literally days away from a financial meltdown --
patients of mine are suffering financially and spiritually like I have never seen before - we are in 2 wars that are
going nowhere (Can McCain, Palin, ANYONE - explain to me how you "WIN" an occupation - can anyone point to ONE
SINGLE time in history that has ever happened the way we are going about this????? ) We are getting ready to start
another - the chimp has been checkmated in the Caucusus by the grandmaster Putin - the Chinese and Japanese and Koreans have us by the balls financially - and yet NOT A SINGLE WORD is spoken about any of these grave dangers.

Rather we sit through speech after speech bashing liberals, reveling in the past, and talking about our POW status
in a 40 year old war. I am a doctor - I have worked at the VA for years. I have not met a single POW EVER that is
emotionally fit to be in the position that McCain will be if he wins - and yet no one even talks about it.

I often wondered in all my years of history courses how the citizens of the Roman Republic or of Nazi Germany let it
happen. I do not have to wonder anymore - I am now living through it - it is hard and painful to see a once great nation going down the crapper. I had a patient about 6 years ago - who was a lieutenant in the Nazi Army. He was older than 90 - and had become a double agent for the Allies in the 1940s. He was rewarded for his bravery with American citizenship. In the middle of the 2004 election, he began the process of dying. It is amazing what people
want to tell their doctors when they are dying. He said something that has haunted me to this day - "I never
thought I would see this happen again - and I never dreamed it would happen to my beloved America". He handed me a book called "They Thought They Were Free" - and I would encourage everyone to read that during this short election season. It changed my life.

I am deeply concerned about a comment on numerous conservative blogs about choosing McCain Palin because Mr Palin is cute. I agree. So was Goebbels. So was Attila the Hun. So was Caligula. And Eva Braun was a real dish. WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE LEADERSHIP OF YOUR COUNTRY DURING THIS TIME IN HER HISTORY - GIVE ME A BREAK. Is it all about American Idol???? Mr. Palin is a man who belonged to a political party who at its core believes that Alaska should be a separate republic - that the USA is a socialist communist state that should be destroyed - that all Jews, Blacks, Latinos and gays should be expelled from Alaska - Don't believe me? - please - be my guest and look it up - it is on their web site for the world to see. If Obama had picked a running mate with a spouse like that - he would be on a one way trip to Kenya as we speak. How did the great Republican President Abraham Lincoln feel about secession? - What do you think he would say about this - to paraphrase John 11:35 - ABE wept. That party membership is but one of many absolutely devastating revalations that is coming out about this woman - and yet the truth is met with derision. The "liberal" media is hatefully reported to be out of control - and the truth becomes what is spewed forth over and over again on the news cycles. George Orwell could not have been more prescient. Truly. (Just imagine a bunch of people sitting in a room - chanting WE HATE WAR - WE LOVE PEACE- right out of 1984 )- that is what our political discourse has become. I am reminded of the closing act of the Taming of the Shrew - when the Shrew is finally tamed - her tamer just tells her it is broad daylight when it is night and she says it - unfortunately - many of my fellow citizens have become just the same lemmings. Another example, -- I have been a medical doctor for 20 years. The picture of Mrs. Palin taken in March 2008 during Super Tuesday circulated all over the web this weekend - one month before delivery of Trig - is supposedly at 7.5 months gestation. I have seen literally hundreds of women at 7 or 8 months - that woman is SIMPLY NOT PREGNANT. Who am I going to believe -- my own trained eyes that the State of Oklahoma paid over $100,000 to train to heal people - or the crap that the fawning campaign and the news media spewed that was a lie and out of bounds. "My friends", I have no idea what the story is, however, it is germane to her character - and I can tell you in the dozen or so pictures of her in March and April of this year that I have seen- she is not pregant. But the campaign and the media have decided she was - so the lemmings naturally shut up about it - and now she is Joan of Arc. If there is one thing that I know from life - Jesus was right - "ye shall know the truth - and the truth shall set you free" - The truth - whatever it may be - will come forth - and often does so at very very inconvenient times. Ask Mark Foley or Larry Craig or John Edwards.

As a Republican - I am heartsick about this whole thing. I have not been a supporter of this party since it went to the dark side with Gingrich, Delay et al. The choice for America is starkly clear. I have made my peace with whatever happens. If Obama wins, he will be the liberal Reagan - and there will be years of liberal reign. I am voting for him. That is far better than what happens if the theocrats take over. I am OK with whoever wins - I have come to peace with it - Obama will MAYBE and I mean MAYBE forestall the collapse. With McCain - you can be guaranteed that America will hit rock bottom - the question is how much of the world will go with us - and what will be the catastrophic consequences? - Look what happened as the European empires hit rock bottom in the 1940s.

This election is far too important to me and my country -

Just some words from a true conservative from Texas.

Sincerely
Dagan68


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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. "...the chimp has been checkmated in the Caucusus by the Russian grandmaster"
Another Fail for Commander AWOL Bush.
Another Fail for Republicons.

Alas, that equals another Fail for our beloved America.

Republicons = fail.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. WOW! - that is the GOP base
Have they really lost it?
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes, because even though they claim it, republicons are not 'conservatives'
That's just a propaganda meme.

Republicons are radical:
radical borrow-and-spenders
radical run up the debt
radical trash the environment
and radical trash the US Constitution.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. radical loot the treasury for personal profit.
uncommon thieves, that is for sure.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Exactly.."conservatives" is an Orwellian appellation
for the rovebushcheneymcpalins.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
59. "Have they really lost it?"
Well, they lost me in 2003 (hence the name). I tended to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Of course, I have rethought alot of the stuff I used to believe. Maybe these will, too.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
81. No, this person is too smart to be the GOP base. They're nuts. n/t
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #81
99. The R base always says "the chimp has been checkmated"
LOL. I guess someone wanted to make a point, but forgot not to talk like an extreme leftie!

I might be duped a bit easier if the writer used "Herr Chimp" :rofl: or at least capitolized Chimp! :rofl:
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. I feel your pain, sir
:patriot:
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am truly hoping that there are 1000s more
disgruntled Republicans who are willing to pull the lever for Obama/Biden in November. This sentence in his post says it all, "The Palin pick has absolutely horrified me. "
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. there are! We have been re registering them!
My latest was a couple from Orange County CA! Today we reregistered several Greens and Declined to State. They are rushing in the door to join the party!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Music to warm my
heart..thank you!!
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trashcanistanista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
143. Same here in Placer County. They are re-registering or
coming up quietly and donating for Obama and confiding that they will vote Obama without changing their registrations. This is pretty obvious to those of us working the red counties.
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you Dagan68
More intelligent Republican's who see this appalling running mate pick for what it is - and isn't - have an obligation to speak out. Imagine how you all might feel if McLame/Gidget somehow sleazes it's way into the Whitehouse? I believe Obama's going to win decisively, though, but we all need to stand up and speak out.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. My wife (independent) had this to say about Palin:
Oh, my God, she's a dumbass!

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Happyhippychick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Your wife is my kind of chickie!
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Yup...yup... you betcha!
Edited on Sat Sep-06-08 07:14 PM by krkaufman
Here's a good 19-minute Charlie Rose roundtable, that demonstrates Palin's lack-of-depth on the issues...

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/plooger/gG5WS4

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Thanks
for the link.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. K/R.
Wow!


Peace:thumbsup:
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eshfemme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wow, this gives me some hope that there is a possibility for bipartisanship
but probably not bipartisanship between the parties as the GOPs seems to have done a pretty thorough job of alienating its moderates and conservatives in order to placate its neo-cons. What's sad is that I'm a moderate Democrat so I have some sympathy for the true conservatives. Seriously, in my view, for liberalism to work well, it needs a functioning conservatism movement to counter liberalism's excesses and vice versa. I believe that was the intention of the bicameral setup of the Legislature that the Founding Fathers set up. Right now, the equilibrium is so fucked up that we basically need to move the central pivot entirely to the left before we can even work on getting a natural balance-- our country is too far to the right and it encourages too much of the crazies (just notice the fondness for conspiracy theories-- it really emphasizes a distrustful atmosphere throughout the country).

That was a great post and I'm hoping that these people will remain to have a say in the political process-- no matter what their party is, reasonable people are too far and few to be callously thrown away like the Republicans did.
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. This part warmed my heart ....
"the donate button on the Obama website was so overwhelmed on his servers last night - it took me till 1:29 AM to get through to donate."
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wow. Just wow. I wonder how many more of these we'll see coming out
in Nov to vote this criminal GOP cabal out of office forever?

I'm imagining millions of them ... to write in Ron Paul or vote for Obama.

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crazylikafox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Wow. Very big K&R.. Send this one to your friends
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Liberalboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. K/R
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NatBurner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. kicked, for a blue texas
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm telling ya....there are a lot of republicans voting for Obama....
I think they just aren't owning it yet....they don't want anyone to know....but there are these, such as above, who don't mind sharing.

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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
80. this is what I have been thinking. A lack of mccain bumperstickers and
the republicans who know the truth; do not want to wear their shame on their sleeves. I think and hope there will be lots of obama voters from their side in the election.
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
108. The problem with that is the Electronic voting machines will fix that for McSame
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
125. I know of at least 10 repubs voting Obama.
Edited on Sun Sep-07-08 02:11 PM by Seldona
And half of them are so pissed they are voting a straight democratic ticket. They even made it a point to tell me that, though I have gone so many rounds with these people I lost track a long time ago. I am sure that is why they told me.

People are fed up and don't believe McLame, or any repub for that matter, will change anything. As long as that sentiment remains with the American electorate, McLame could pick anyone and it won't matter.

Look at 06'! Repubs got tossed out on their asses. In many cases in places where we didn't even think we had a chance. The Democratic Party didn't lose a SINGLE seat, unless you count Lieberman.

I am not saying anything is a lock. At this point anything could happen. But providing things remain essentially the same, barring a major attack or scandal, I really think we have this in the bag.

Cleaning up the 12 years of a repub Congress, and 8 years of *Bush, is going to be no picnic. I believe Obama is the best man to handle it.
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toddGA Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. Great Post.
Thanks for digging this one up.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. (wrong thread)
Edited on Sat Sep-06-08 04:26 PM by Bernardo de La Paz
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. Wow
You know what? It IS the true conservative speaking. Their votes won't matter (NJ and NY citizens) but a few conservatives I know - are either in agreement with this man - or intend to stay home on election day.

The best quote?

"I'm sick and tired of my party being held hostage by the religious right."

That says it all.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
116. They've been jolted!
In Washington Co. MAine, there is a majority of "Eisenhower Repubs. who DON"T WANT CHANGE! Same with my daughter's small town in the Catskills ( Green County) I think they are noticing now, rethinking is required.
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DangerousRhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. Whoa! Okay, THIS makes me happy. Not because of the awful circumstances...
but because eyes are opening to what's going on and what the Republican party has been morphing into. It's a great sign for democracy in general and while I feel very sad for Dagan68, for his or her loss over the years, it's clear there is still hope and THAT is what makes us great as a country. I can only hope more people open their eyes and truly SEE what's around them, what's in front of their noses.

:patriot:
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. Bravo! Well said! K and R
This world and that world are forever giving birth:

every cause is a mother; the effect born is as a child.

When the effect was born, it too became a cause

so that it might give birth to wondrous effects.

These causes follow generation upon generation,

but it takes a very well-illumined eye

to see all the links in the chain. Rumi
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Dem_4_Life Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. WOW...Thank you Dagan68
It is so great to hear these confessions of ex-republicans/conservitives. As a fellow Texan I have to say I see more people in Texas just like Dagan68. Unless they are oil people or just idiots that don't pay attention. I have swayed at least a few who don't pay attn by pointing out how it effects them since they don't give a shit about anyone else.
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DangerousRhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
24. P.S. - Thank you Dagan68!
Edited on Sat Sep-06-08 04:57 PM by DangerousRhythm
I just reserved "They Thought They Were Free" from my local library and plan on reading it as soon as it comes in. :patriot:
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. The chapter of the book that is quoted most often (and probably most relevant to our current
situation) is available online - or at least a fairly good portion of it. Google "slouching toward Kristallnacht", which was the title of a very good piece posted on Kos and some other blogs within the past year or two.
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DangerousRhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
87. Thank you! I will look that up.
This stuff is frightening. :\
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
66. Here's a part I often quote.
http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

Not that it makes me feel any better...
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DangerousRhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #66
86. Wow, thank you for that page.
After reading that, I feel like buying the book rather than merely taking it out from the library.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
113. thanks for the link.
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CounterPropagandist Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #66
126. We are better off than them
I have studied this and have learned from Mr. Mayer's observations. We can excuse the German people for not knowing what was coming, for not knowing the ends in order to avoid the beginnings. We are in a different situation. We know where all of this leads. We have no excuses. Blackops is right, but the neo-Fascist pattern is so clear at this point that everyone should know where the slippery slope is leading us, inexorably, step by step. Every single plank of the historic Fascist platform is now in play in our own American political scene, every single one. Sure, there hasn't yet been one great shock that mobilized us yet to join with others in acting in opposition, but maybe now there is! We have seen it before. We know the ends. We can avoid the beginnings. We have to fight.
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #126
129. very eloquently written
Welcome to DU--I look forward to reading more from you! :applause:
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CounterPropagandist Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #129
137. The Fascist Platform
Thank you.

Perhaps it would be useful to those who have not had the historical background to understand the theoretical Fascist platform.

The central proposition in historical Fascist ideology is to renounce and abrogate the inalienable right recited in the Declaration of Independence to God-given equality of all men in treatment under the law. Fascism historically has been advocated by Fascist idealogutes to be a reaction to the third maxim of the contemporaneous French Revolution, "Liberte, Fraternite, Equalite" (Liberty, Fraternity and Equality. The very idea of equality is anathema to the Fascists. They worship the dark side of meritocracy. The strategy of the proto-Fascist is to erode, step by incremental step, the rights of disadvantaged classes in society, starting with those eliciting the least sympathy by the general population, so as to gradually acclimate the masses to the acceptance of inequality under the law.

Republicanism, as recorded either here or in other societies such as Roman society, unfortunately contains the seeds of its own destruction which if sown and followed to its logical conclusion leads to Fascism, because it says that only certain privileged persons have the rights of full citizenship. That is Republican central political proposition.

The rules of the game are basically worship of the authority of the meritocracy. Unfortunately the concept of merit is a flexible one and may be reshaped and redefined at will by the ruling classes. Meritocracy, when it means the idea of government by the "best and brightest", also has its advantages when merit is defined as wisdom, but it also contains a poison pill, in that it also leads to the acceptance of the philosophy of utilitarianism, and the rule by power rather than reason. Merit can come to mean graduating from a right-leaning lawschool with top honors, joining a large powerful lwfirm, moving up the ladder of success and creating an impressive resume, becoming a corrupt judge backed by his Republican peers and interests, being a popular psychologist or social worker prostitute witness. Whatever supports the party in power.

Utilitarianism means that a person's sum and total worth is defined by their value to the society at large, not by their own estimates of happiness. It attacks the idea of personal soveriegnty, central to the Enlightenment and the foundation of our democratic principles behind the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. You do not own yourself, you are a working asset of society. Rebels, intellectuals and free thinkers are ridiculed and do not count. The Framers of those documents were really smart and they had studied other systems of government in history with the idea of designing something new and better than what had preceded it. The central fallacy of the Fascists, consistent with English nobility, is that the masses do not have the ability to represent themselves and therefore do not count because they are perhaps "too stupid" to govern themselves. This is untrue because even an illiterate, handicapped, mentally disabled or impoverished man knows when his rights are being trampled on, even if he cannot express it properly, and he can still vote for his interests.

We see clearly now an mounting divisive attack against the rights of elder citizens, reputed mentally disabled citizens, the deformed and handicapped, purported criminals, "illegal" immigrants, Muslims, conspiracy theorists, terrorism profiles, certain nationalities, "liberals", the poor, the unlucky, the underprivileged, the disaffected and dissident, so-called patriarchal men hated by women, UN-supporters, bleeding hearts, people from bad neighborhoods, the unpopular outgroup, geeks opposed by jocks.

Everytime someone's rights are being denied, no matter how unpopular, this represents a threat to us all, for that exact reason, but we do not mind the outgroups' rights being denied, right? The blame for their plight is directed back at them, because how could there be a just society that allows such inequality? So since we KNOW American society MUST be just, because to be good Americans we are required to have faith in it to be so, so there must be a good reason somewhere: that they MUST deserve their situation, somehow. How else could it be? So, those that win, must be deserving, and those that lose must be born losers. The winners are given privileges that insulate them from losing, the losers are discriminated against because we don't trust them to win. Those with money must be smart and can be trusted with money. Those without cannot be trusted. If you do not have bootstraps you must have lost them yourself somewhere. Go find them. Welfare for the rich, destitution for the poor. Those are the people who eventually wind up in the glue factory, in classic Fascism. We are already there.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #126
139. Exactly right, CP! Mom and I were just discussing this today. It can
happen here; it doesn't have to look like Germany.

Welcome to DU! :hi:
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kick for early evening
This is excellent. :thumbsup:


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Rectangle Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. Dagen, welcome here!! You are in the right place!
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progressiveforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. Don't agree with all of it-but point made
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. This true conservative Dr from
Texas has written what I imagined people were feeling who were the party of Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, and Lincoln.

Thank you, Dr, for speaking out with your passion:patriot: and for donating to all our Cause:party: ..Saving the Planet:bounce:
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R!
This gives one hope that not everyone was blinded by the lies!

:kick:
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. Texas rejects McCain!!!
Man, that is a headline I'd love to see on November 5th!!
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
37. I'll bet most people's reactions will be to write it off...
...convinced that it's really a liberal Democrat pretending to be a conservative Republican.

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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #37
78. my first reaction. n/t
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #37
82. That's my first thought.
The "chimp" comment just doesn't ring true.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
105. a liberal Democrat pretending to be a conservative Republican
True....because it's thoughtful and reflexive and thorough.

When Repugs pretend to be Dems you get:

"PALIN IS A BABE!" or "THIS WOMAN IS VOTING FOR THE WOMAN YOU SLIGHT AND MAKE FUN OF! SO LONG OBAMA."


LOL LOL No one falls for that!
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
38. Fake but a good rant
no true conservative would call bush chimp
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I think you may be right....but it sure is an excellent fake...
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. lol after the first 4 years I think they would (nt)
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. i am in texas, conservative part, and almost unanimously they really dont like bush. n/t
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txwhitedove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. Bingo, exactly what I thought!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. If they are from Texas it could be a different story
They've been dealing with that simian for a much longer time.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. nah it gets even more loopy at the end.
As a rant one of us would write its great but that wasn't written by a life ling republican. I would bet cash money on it.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. "explain to me how you "WIN" an occupation"
Obama needs to steal that line.
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
61. Someone from our side already did !!!
If you watched the Rep. circus on the night Mclame spoke, there was a Vet in the balcony that held up just that sign. "Explain to me how you WIN an occupation!!" It was on the reverse side of the one that was torn from his hands, as he was "escorted" out to the sounds of USA,USA !!!
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
41. They Thought They were Free......
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html


<snip>
"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
<snip>
"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
<snip>
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #41
135. "Defying Hitler," by Sebastian Haffner is another good read on this topic! nt
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
42. Huge kick and rec'd. A must read imo.
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
45. Nice of Dagan to donate since Texas will remain red. Really great read.
Good catch.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
54. Texas is purple....
and getting darker every election cycle. It's changing from the roots up.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
46. Welcome to the war, Dagan68! Showing up late is better than not at all!
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
47. K&R
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Blondiegrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
49. Brilliant. Dagan68, I salute you! n/t
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
51. Buncha freakin' Nazis running the country right now,
and it'll only get worse if McCain/Palin wins.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
52. K&R .....What took you so long???....and....Where are the Others?????
:toast:
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
53. spot on! n/t
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Top Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
56. Thanks so much for your post,,
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
57. What a great line
"Whatever happened to the 1000 Points of Light? - I guess that got snuffed out too in the darkness of Abu Ghraib"

Would make a great talking point.
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gratefultobelib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
58. A pleasure to read--thank you!
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
60. Geeze you people are easy. I don't believe for one moment that this guy is what he says he is.
The piece started out okay, but lost all credibility with the pregnancy nonsense.

If this were a sincere confession, if this guy felt so strongly about the state of our country that he wanted to speak out, he would have sent this to his local newspaper with his name signed to it -- not to a friggin' blog with an anonymous username.

I find it really appalling that so many DUers are willing to fall all over themselves with joy over some anonymous message on the fucking internet. Where the hell are your critical thinking faculties? Are you all really so naive that you think anyone who posts something online is who they say they are?

You are letting yourselves be blinded by wishful thinking. I am appalled.

sw
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. I see your point, but one can hope.
I live in DeLay Land, and plenty of people here are fed up with what they have wrought.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. I don't doubt that there are Republicans who are fed up. But reacting to this one anonymous post as
though it means something is just pathetic.

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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. I see your point. nt
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #65
96. You may be right
So I'll stick to face to face encounters I've had with Republicans. My doctor, for example. She'd never write about it on an anonymous blog, but I know she thinks McCain and especially Palin are a disaster. Other Republican folks I know are strangely silent on their own candidate and will only say Obama is "dangerous" if pressed to talk about politics. ("Dangerous" is their code word for "black", btw).
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #96
120. What bothers me the most about this is how easily DUers will fall for a fantasy if it reinforces
their beliefs.

Not so different from what we love to accuse the "other side" of doing. Too many of us seem to think that we are exempt from the psychological phenomena of projection.

sw
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Dinosaur13 Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #120
144. Why so cynical?
The purpose of his post was not to push the baby story. Re-read it! This is a human being who finally woke up. It happens. It happened to me and it happened to my ex-wife (many years later).

We're all on a path. some of us come to the correct way of thinking sooner than others. Many of us grew up in non-critical thinking families, and so have had to overcome this handicap.

peace and steady on.
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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. Right on. It's pathetic. Gullibility runs strong, while the rabid fascists sharpen their knives.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. My complaint is this - if we're supposed to be the ones whose critical thinking faculties are intact
then WHY, for gawdsakes, should we accept an anonmymous post as proof of anything?

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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #67
74. I agree -- but then again, we've already stopped talking about the impending Great Depression
and instead we're talking about the latest Alaskan white trash soap opera chapter.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #60
71. I agree - it got fishy with the detailed pregnancy section
I think the post makes some interesting points, but the person behind it is not likely who they say they are.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #71
121. Yes, it makes some interesting points -- points that pretty much any one of us could come up with.
The pregnancy stuff is just way over the top, and gives the whole charade away, imho.

sw
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #60
83. Thanks for posting this...
This is one of the things I see happen on here and other sites, and everytime DUers fawn over it as if it is gospel. This was not written by any Republican.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #83
122. Thank you. It really disturbs me that so many DUers fell for this phony post so easily.
Edited on Sun Sep-07-08 01:03 PM by scarletwoman
Just swallowed it whole without question.

How can it be that so many DUers don't seem to understand that anonymous posters on the internet CAN and DO lie about who they are?

:eyes:
sw
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #60
97. Yeah, he seemed to know a little too much about things that only a habitual web surfer would know.
Nice try but a little over the top.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #97
119. Excellent point! It all sounds so "right" to DUers because he's saying the things we all say
to each other as a matter of course.

But the most suspicious part to me is his idiotic bit about Sarah Palin's pregnancy. No real "doctor" is going to vehemently assert that he can tell from a few photographs that a woman is or is not pregnant. And no real "seen the light" Republican is going to use a fringe internet conspiracy theory as part of his conversion story. It's totally absurd.

sw
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #60
104. Blinded? We have 126,563 reg, users - 1 may be a conservative.
The odds are that this is true and that the repulsion to this ticket and the Republican Party is felt by other US citizens besides Democrats.

We are so used to being snookered, that we feel uneasy trusting that republicans can see what's in their future.

It reminds me of the story,"first they came for the jews". I think it is their time to shake themselves into reality. We must hope that more will look around and see, what is really happening to Our Country and Our World.

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #104
117. It was posted on Americablog, not here. And my point still stands, anyone who takes what
an anonymous internet poster says about himself at face value is a gullible fool.

As I've already said, I have no doubt that there are Republicans out there who have "seen the light" -- and there are some who have come forward NON-anonymously to say so.

But there is absolutely NO internal evidence in this particular post that would confirm the veracity of the claims of the author -- rather, there is MORE internal evidence that this is a fake.



I'm utterly embarrassed that this completely unverifiable sop to gullible "progressives" has ended up on the front page of DU with 157. It's pathetic. It just goes to show that critical thinking is just as absent on our side as it is on the other.

sw
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Duval Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #104
127. I agree, The Wielding Truth.
Just forget the pregnancy stuff and look at the big picture. Seeing in print what I have been thinking
really threw me. I am 69 years old, and never have I feared not only who was President but also the demise of Democracy until now.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #60
115. I'm with you. If the author of that thread has the values that underlie his/her
criticism of the Junta in power, how the hell could s/he be a "lifelong Republican?" Why the hell would s/he allude to that bloody monster Reagan as if his "thousand points of light" were ever anything but a clever slogan? Why the hell would he be buying into the premise of "a thousand points of light" which was that "charity" and individual action could replace the social safety net and organized action by the oppressed?

This gullibility, I think, arises from the same impulse that credits "true conservatives" with moral weight and authority - something that always bewilders me. I always want to ask which of the great social movements that actually made a difference in the freedom with which people could live their lives during the last century - organized labor, civil rights, feminism, the sexual revolution - was lead or even supported by "true conservatives?" "True Conservatives" are on the side of the money, and always have been. They support social controls because they impede the ability of the people to find common cause and organize against big $$ interests and for their own benefit.

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #115
123. Your second paragraph brings up a very interesting point -- crediting conservatives with
"moral weight and authority" -- great observation!

Liberals appear to be just as prone to looking to "Daddy" for approval and affirmation as rightwingers are.

sw
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
64. More good news form a Republican friend
Edited on Sat Sep-06-08 11:24 PM by texastoast
I sent him an infomail about Sarah and he emailed me back and said she made a wonderful speech during the convention. I emailed him back and asked "Did you read what I sent you?"

He emailed me back and said, "I didn't say I was going to vote for her. It will all become clear soon."

This is from a Vietnam vet. I truly have hope.

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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. My remark to the "made a wonderful speech" thing
is that Yes, she did a really good job reading a speech that was written for her. She was a television sportscaster, I would hope she could read lines that were written for her.
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #69
110. That picture! That says it all! That
one picture should allow the Dems to win. That one is worse than the one where MacBeth is trying to get his short little arms around Chimp's waist. It is stomach churning. It is mind boggling. I am going to puke. That needs to be made into a poster and carried around all the time. Deceit personified!
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
68. kick. nt
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
72. BUSH HAS UNITED AMERICA..... even the GOP hates the GOP ! ! !
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jjr5 Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
73. Glad to see
that we aren't so different after all.
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Aragorn Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
75. USA
I am a physician too. Yes, we have lost it. I think it is too late for our country to fix anything. I have been personally (professionally) persecuted for for speaking out.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
76. Interesting and enlightening. Especially the comments about the ex-Nazi officer. Very scary.
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
77. Thank you for posting this nt
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
79. WOW! That one is definitely a keeper! n/t
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
84. As much as I would like to welcome Mr. True TX Conservative to the fold...
He misses the main point of what, at least for me, our current issue really is. On some level, I guess... and I may be wrong about this... is that any form of philosophy which denies based upon position... specifically the venerated Ronald Reagan's laissez-faire economics... which must, by its very definition cast aside a large portion of the population to the whim of the... again, so-called... free market... is not a philosophy which we, as Americans, have any business championing.

Bootstraps, shmootstraps. Anyone who has ever worked in the private sector, not as a boss, but as a worker, knows precisely what Reagan's America really is. It is nothing more than the tacit recognition of the expendability, not of the person possessing of particular skills, but of the person in general. The idea, really, that humans are indeed a resource to be exploited if the price is right, and cast aside just as easily if the price is wrong, is the end result, if not the intent of the form of capitalism that Reaganites espouse.

Ronald Reagan was a man of eloquence. We as a nation cannot deny this. But as the Living Color refrain goes, its a "Cult of Personality". Nothing in Reagan's repertoire points to a great leader. It points to a showman, a showman who shows contempt for those who bought the tickets even as he thanks them for their patronage. And isn't this really what we see know in the current crop of Republican leaders? A deeply disturbing combination of both contempt for and fealty towards the people who keep them in office?

Dagan68 has made the first step. But this is the journey of one-thousand steps. It isn't about issues, per se. It is about attitude. How do you feel about your fellow man? This is the true nature of liberal thought, putting oneself not necessarily after the needs of the society, but characterizing one's own interests as being impactful to that society. If your own wants are out of step with the needs of the society, you put yourself aside. A conservative will find this idea offensive and wrong.

Look. I know I'm supposed to feel good about this. I really do understand that we are supposed to be grateful when people come over to our side, but I wonder how long this will last for Dagan68. It isn't McCain that is the problem, it is conservatism itself, neo or otherwise that is the problem. Conservatism must fail in a changing world, because the only way to keep step with change is to progress, to progress in attitude and to progress in ideas. That which came before, while being of importance to many cannot succeed in a world of such diversity because the previous success is based in homogeneity.

I try to be positive about such things. I do. I really, really do. But nothing in Dagan68's epiphany really says, the way this country has operated for the past quarter century has been wrong, denying the very same people upon whose backs what we know this country to be has been built. And it IS wrong. On every level I can imagine. Spiritual. Material. Philosophical. Every way you can look at it, the philosophy of Reagan's America has failed the common man and woman in such a way as to require no statement or testimony.

That Dagan68 cannot see this, that he still doesn't get this, does not fill me with hope. It fills me with cynicism and dismay. I've had just about all I can stand of those two emotions.

There is, however, one thing that does make me hopeful with Dagan68, and that his mind is at least open to new ideas, or at least, new retellings of old ideas. I understand that what I know and feel does not come easily to some. I should not expect others to have the same facility. Conflicted as I am, I know Dagan68 is a good person who simply sees what is going on as unworkable as I do. He may not agree with me on many things, as I am certain any conversation between he and I would reveal, but I probably would not consider the time I spend talking to him wasted. And isn't that really what is important? To begin the dialogue? To end, finally, the schism that exists between liberal and conservative, knowing full well that we are not too far apart on most of what causes us chagrin? Oh, sure. We will have difference. That much is certain. I didn't come from the same place as he and he did not come from the same place as I, BUT, when all is said and done, there is very little that benefits me that does not benefit him, and vice versa. We CAN work together so long as we treat the other with the respect that we would damn well want for ourselves, and we would do well to earn that respect as much as we would want it.

Maybe, just maybe, that's what Dagan68 sees in Obama. The potential to begin. The same thing I do. Not a magical cure-all to the nation's ills, but at least the recognition of the idea that problems exist, big problems, the kind that small-minded exclusionist neoconservative apparatchiks can't solve, not because they lack the intelligence or skill, but because they simply don't want to solve them, as they are beneficiaries of the lucrative philosophical debacle they've engineered. Now THIS is an idea I can get behind.
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Iwillnevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
85. Ver well written
and puts me in mind of Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" which I heartily recommend to the good doctor and everyone else if you haven't read it. What an eye-opener.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 04:35 AM
Response to Original message
88. I don't know how I missed this thread, but I'm glad it got mentioned in another one
Bookmarked. Very moving to read. I'm still catching up on the responses. Thank you for posting it!
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life long demo Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
89. Wow - Are there more out there like Dagan68
I hope so, dear Lord I hope so. Because it just seems to be getting worse from the rethugs.
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
90. From your lips
to the hearts and ears of your compatriots. May many, many ... countless ... more find the truth you have realized.
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
91. Well, dagan68, I've worn those shoes (boots, actually) just as you, but
Ronald Reagan was my "Palin moment". But it's never too late to realize how hi-jacked the R party has become.

Social issues have always been critical divisive points, but you don't ignore them, or worse--just pretend they don't exist.

But when fiscal policy, rule of law, and Constitutional destruction become rape victims of Republican Beserkers, then how can you not say, "Enough!"? As a Texan, you could probably appreciate my dysfunctional need to shoot first, and often, instead I counsel local organization and persistent communication. I won't suffer a fool, but insistent communication is the best. CONFESSION: I am not very good at this, but I'm getting somewhat better.

My journey from those betrayal days of Richard M. Nixon to the present has been messy, confused, and angry, so much so that now I'm told that I am an angry lefty. I have issues with Obama, but really, there is no other choice if this country wants to revive itself.

Ever Vigilance.

NoFederales
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GTurck Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
92. Than You..
I am glad that you found us and even more glad that you understand the issues and are not seduced by appearances. I don't believe we can have a good government with only one viewpoint but I have been very frightened by the one that this Republican Party has espoused. Let us hope that an Obama victory will allow real conservatives and moderates to once again be part of the American dialogue.
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
93. Let us kick this one up again.........nt
Edited on Sun Sep-07-08 08:11 AM by Stuart G
Perhaps someone has not read it yet........
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
94. Comparing John Edwards with soliciting children and soliciting in bathrooms?
Uh... sorry.

That just gets me a bit pissed off.

Yeah, Johnny-Boy screwed up. But his affair wasn't with a kid or with a stranger met in a bathroom.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
95. This lifts my spirits
to know that many Republicans/Conservatives are tired of what their party is doing to our country, and they are doing something about it by supporting Senator Obama. It gives me hope for November.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
98. "since it went to the dark side with Gingrich, Delay et al"
That's cute.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
100. Palin's past will come back to haunt her....


Thanks for the post.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
101. Thank you Dagan68! K&R
:kick:
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Raffi Ella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
102. People all over the country feel this way.
The MSM would have you believe otherwise but it's just not so. Palins "performance" the other night was not just more of the same, it was worse. America saw it, heard it and donated to the Obama Campaign.

We need to get this piece to Keith Olbermann, Tweety -ALL OF THEM - and start demanding accountability from the media. The MSM beat the drum for the IRAQ War, they are now beating the drum for McCain. We have to stop it!

I'm not sure how many of us there are here at D.U. but if we ALL demanded accountability from the MSM I KNOW it could make a difference.

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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
103. Thank you for this thoughtful article. I am old enough that I remember
the Eisenhower presidency when Republicans were real Republicans. Then the two party system worked. Hopefully we can win this year and begin to rebuild America because you are right we are headed down. We can either continue to self destruct or we can begin working together to salvage what we can. With the help of good people like yourself we have a chance.
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
106. I bookmarked this for future reference!
...to send to anyone who dares send me RW propaganda email... this is straight from the horse's mouth type of rebuttal.

I really do think it will be a landslide, there is no way they can steal this one...many repubs are only so in name, and in the privacy of their voting booth will pull the lever for Obama, because they can see that mcshame is just plain nuts. And I think that the fundies and the other crazies are the minority ...at least I'd like to believe so!
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Dinosaur13 Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
107. I was also a TX Republican. One year into "W"'s first term
cured me. Not matter what your policies, there is no excuse for not using your brain. I realized quickly that "W"'s platform was a lie, all of it. No bi-partisanship, no decent tone, no caring. In short, no humanity. Please, use your head and your heart.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
109. "I never thought I would see this happen again - and I never dreamed it would happen to
my beloved America".

That line got me. It's not only us the "loony left" who sees it - it's the people who lived through it.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
111. Obama said some republicans have come on board, I hadn't a clue they were intellectual...
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stuartallenmills Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
112. He said it all - under Bush/Cheney we saw the start of real facism in America
And Country First? The next step in that direction.
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REACTIVATED IN CT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
114. "How do you WIN an occupation?"
that's what I yell at the radio/TV whenever one of the RW cheerleaders is on Washington Journal as I try to get thru on the phone....
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mrJJ Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
118. Texas may have a serious problem in November
Barr threatening "serious legal consequences" about ballot in TX-

Someone may have to Pen in TEXAS... as a write in play!!!!!!!!!!

Although I'm not voting for Barr he appears to be on SOLID ground with the Texas law

http://campaign.blog.bobbarr2008.com/2008/09/04/in-texas-the-evidence-is-clear
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
124. Wow! This is pure gold! Hits on all the important issues...
And you notice that the writer, a self-described medical doctor, calls into question the "pregnancy" issue.

This probably won't go over so well, here, but I'll offer my opinion anyway. Just like the official 9/11 story, the American people are being presented with a narrative where numerous implausible events come together to form a mythos which all are expected to believe. After all, it worked so well in 2001, they decided to reprise it.

I don't believe Sarah was pregnant. And yes, it is relevant because it goes to her duplicity and hypocrisy.



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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #124
134. I join in your belief that Sarah was not pregnant.
There are quite a number of videos of her in the two or three months before that birth, and she is slim and trim. That one photo of her at the end of the legislative session, standing with another woman, looks slightly suggestive of her being a bit rotund, but as has been pointed out, that could easily be faked.

How credulous are we going to be in service of progressive tolerance and rationalism? We can give a pass on so many issues that we just lie down and let the Republicans roll over us. While I agree that there are far more serious issues than a faked pregnancy to cover up the hypocrisy of this "Christian" family, that Sarah is willing to lie about this just highlights the fact that she is willing to lie in a broad, general sense.

People keep harping on the "five months pregnant" story that Sarah, et al. are circulating. It is true that if Trig is Sarah's grandson, the mother gave birth and immediately became pregnant again. Has that ever happened in the history of mankind???? The difference in four and five months gestation to the eye is not really that discernable, given that the young daughter is still a little on the chubby side.

There is just too much smoke with this wild tale of a woman in labor (whose water had already broken) boarding two separate planes for hours of airline travel, then a trip by car for 40 miles to the small town where the birth took place. And the hospital has no record? And the daughter was out of school for some "away" time at exactly the interval of the pregnancy?

There is no lie the Republicans will not tell to gain and stay in office. Sarah Palin's public record is so draconian in terms of her performance in office and her strongly touted religious beliefs that she is disqualified on the face of it to hold the office of the VP. But that didn't stop them from installing GW, and I tremble at the thought of their doing it again. There is no Dem "good enough" to win this election if they decide to steal it again. And I don't buy the idea that if we overwhelm them with a turnout much greater than ever before, they *can't* steal it. Oh, yes, they can! They have the means and the will, and after they've done it, We the People are left waiting for someone strong enough to challenge the whole thing. There has not been, and surely will not be with the coming election, one central place for election theft. They can make it so overwhelmingly scattered and confusing that it would take years of litigation to sort it out. We've already seen that with the results of the 2004 "messing about" finally surfacing long after the deed was done.

How many times have we read that if they steal it again, there will be "blood in the streets"! Oh, really. Those brave ones who have hit the streets have suffered personal infamy (Amy Goodman comes to mind), and nothing really changes. Indeed, if we had the spirit of some of those people down in South America who did hit the streets, we might effect change. But most people in this country (myself included, to some extent) just go along with the thought that "This, too, shall pass." Instead, the shadows grow longer, but are not noticed because we are cozy inside our comfortable homes, living our usual lives. After all, no one has knocked on our doors ... yet!

This good man's letter shows us that traditional Republicans are waking up, in their numbers. The question is, Is it too little, too late? It is very sad that our elections have come down to simply a numbers game: Can our largely uninformed masses outnumber their greatly uninformed masses? Debates are almost pointless now because they are highly scripted and controlled, and the only people who can pick up on nuance are those of us who are already the "converted." Dumbed down, subliminal messages delivered in symbols and soundbytes are what matter. Goebbels had it right!

But still we struggle on and try not to believe all that I have written above (which is an echo of what better people have said before me).

Kudos for saying "what may not go over well here." That is simply a standard we all should be living by, here, and "out there," if we entertain any hope of saving our country. Failing to call Sarah Palin on her lies gives her just what the Republicans are demanding for her: DEFERENCE!!!!!
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CounterPropagandist Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
128. McCain -- Manchurian Candidate?
Edited on Sun Sep-07-08 03:21 PM by CounterPropagandist
"I am a doctor - I have worked at the VA for years. I have not met a single POW EVER that is
emotionally fit to be in the position that McCain will be if he wins - and yet no one even talks about it."

This gave me a terrifying shock. What if...and I know this is horrible speculation...but just what if McCain was being controlled? What if he were a mind-control job? I know this sounds far fetched, but stay with me here for a moment.

Think about it! Why do you see him switching sides on issues all the time to toe the Bush line, when he is supposedly such a maverick? How could he pick a Sarah Palin?

Check out that vacant look on his face from time to time. Is he all there?

The CIA has experimented with mind-control techniques for decades. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control Could they get him to push the Big Red Button? See excerpt essay, "Meet the Senator Most Likely to Start a Nuclear War, The Mark of McCain, By JEFFREY ST. CLAIR, oln CounterPunch Web site, at http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair11232004.html, (also citing McCain's volcanic temper.) An excerpt follows:

"In 1992, Robin Silver and Bob Witzeman went to meet with McCain at his office in Phoenix to discuss Mt. Graham. Silver and Witzeman are both physicians. Witzeman is now retired and Silver works in the emergency room at Phoenix hospital. The doctors say that at the mention of the words Mount Graham McCain erupted into a violent fit. "He slammed his fists on his desk, scattering papers across the room", Silver tells us. 'He jumped up and down, screaming obscenities at us for at least 10 minutes. He shook his fists as if he was going to slug us. It was as violent as almost any domestic abuse altercation.'"

"Witzeman left the meeting stunned: 'I'm a lifelong environmentalist, but what really scares me about McCain is not his environmental policies, which are horrid, but his violent, irrational temper. I think McCain is so unbalanced that if Vladimir Putin told him something he didn't like he'd lose it, start beating his chest about having his finger on the nuclear trigger. Who knows where it would stop. To my mind, McCain's the most likely senator to start a nuclear war.'"

Is this very safe to have someone like this in the White House?

The Manchurian Candidate? For those of you that are too young to remember that movie, and I know there are lots of you out there, it was a '60's classic involving a returned Korea vet that had been exposed to torture and mind control while a North Korean prisoner of war, into becoming a controlled assassin to kill a popular presidential candidate. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manchurian_Candidate. There are serious grounds for that premise. Not an assassin but the real candidate himself? Now I'm REALLY worried.

A lead up to a nuke conflict? Are they nuts enough to do that? You judge.
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CounterPropagandist Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #128
132. Was McCain actually tortured?
"I am a doctor - I have worked at the VA for years. I have not met a single POW EVER that is
emotionally fit to be in the position that McCain will be if he wins - and yet no one even talks about it."

The flip side of this statement is that there exists significant question that McCain's whole story about being tortured and a war hero may be a lie!! Since everything else about the Republicans' campain is a lie, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

See Slate's article: http://www.slate.com/discuss/forums/thread/1426856.aspx
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penndragon69 Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
130. Welcome back into the light, Friend!
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
131. thanks for sharing your experience and welcome to the kinder and
gentler world. Hope you stick around...
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
133. Wow, 171 recs for a fake anonymous post.
It's a fun rant, but verrry doubtful it's real.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #133
136. Really? And what is it about that post
that causes you to doubt its authenticity?

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dagan68 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
138. My name is Dagan - I am a Republican Doctor From Dallas, TX
I had no idea this missive would be posted in this forum.  I
was just emailed this afternoon that there were quite a few
responses to it in your forum.  I have never posted here
before.  

Please believe me - I am quite real.  The statements above are
the exact truth.  I did vote for GWB in 2000 - however, the
shine quickly came off - truth be told - with the entire
Florida fiasco and how that was handled in total disregard for
the Constitution.  As a physician - I was personally
distraught with his decision regarding Stem Cells.  But then -
the bottom fell out with the entire situation after 9-11.  

Indeed, that led to months and months of soul-searching. 
After 2 of my patients lost children in the Iraq war - I
became angry.  When the German Hero of War that I alluded to
in my post shared with me his concerns about America - I began
to realize that the bad times were coming.  

I have no way of proving who I am - Believe me - I am as real
as real can be.  I am not a liar.  There are LOTS and LOTS of
pissed off Republicans.

And although many of you have concerns about my beliefs
regarding Sarah Palin and her pregnancy - the facts and the
photos are what they are.  I think the astonishment of her
workers in her office that she was 7 months pregnant reported
by the Anchorage newspaper speaks volumes.  A woman who is 7
months pregnant - in her pre-gravid state - will simply not
look like those pictures at 7 months.  There is something
going on.  What it is - I do not know - but again - the truth
will come forth - one way or the other.

I live here in a suburb of Dallas - I will not reveal any more
personal information than that.  I am an internist.  I take
care of adults and older people.  I work every day with many
many Republican physicians - who are just as pissed as I am. 
Believe me, doctors in this country who are not besotted with
greed - can see the tragedies going on in their patient's
lives - it is one of the few professions with true "in
your face" exposure to reality.  

I am a conservative - in the truest since of the word.  I
believe in individual rights, hard work, the Bill of Rights,
privacy, having the government stay out of your bedroom and
your life.  None of these things are what the current
"conservatives" stand for.  They are not
conservatives - they are fascists - in the truest sense of the
word.  They are also my brothers and sisters - and I have been
trying my best for the past two years - for anyone in my realm
of influence to get the word out.  I feel like the robot in
Lost in Space running around frantically screaming DANGER
DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON.  One of my heroes was Deitrich
Boenhoeffer - he is truly THE MARTYR of the Christian Church
in the 20th Century.  He saw it coming in Germany - and tried
to warn his countryman - he was ignored, persecuted,  and
eventually executed.  I see the same things he discussed in
his countrymen in mine in very frightening parallels (Think
about the behavior of your Democratic Party the past 8 years -
then go look up the story of Hindenburg and Von Pappen and the
advent of the Third Reich - and really really think about it)
- I pray every day that I can get through to people in my
sphere of influence.  I want this country to be the best it
can be - morally, spiritually, economically, and politically. 
It will never be that way with the Fascist/Corporatists in
power.

My 93 year old grandmother lives in Oklahoma.  She was a
teenager when the Dust Bowl struck her little town of
Blackwell.  The town was destroyed in one night.  Her father
shortly thereafter lost everything he had.  They moved to the
nearest big city - Tulsa - and lived in a lean-to shack for
years.  My grandmother and her sisters were farmed out as
housegirls at ages 12,14,15 to wealthy oilmen in Tulsa.  They
worked 80 hours a week - and gave every dime to their parents
who eeked out a living with their younger children in their
lean-to.  My grandmother voted for FDR the first time - and
then was a Democrat most of her adult life - until the era of
Reagan - about the time I came of political age.  Let me make
something perfectly clear to everyone - her conversion to
Republicanism was and remains RELIGIOUS not political.  To
millions of Americans, Jesus had quit being the Jesus of the
Sermon on the Mount - and began to be the Jesus of the Left
Behind mythology.  My fellow Americans - this happened in
MILLIONS of lives all over this country - and continues to be
a powerful powerful issue.  To continue to be a
"Christian" - (My family is a sect called Nazarenes
- what I am saying is true of all Pentecostals, Southern
Baptists, and interdenominational groups) they have to support
Republicanism.  Now - 20 years later - Republicanism and
Rapture Rightism are one in the same.  Unless something
happens to change this trajectory - cataclysmic tragedy will
ensue for this republic.  The horrifying nature of the Sarah
Palin pick - is the worldview she espouses as a member of the
Assembly of God church.  For example, currently the Rapture
Rightists are debating whether or not the Russia Georgia
conflict is the fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy known
as G0G MAGOG.  I am not going into details - they are surely
online for inquiring minds - but Sarah Palin undoubtedly is
influenced by this (A very scary thought indeed to see her in
charge of anything truly - study the world view of the
Rapturists - it is horrifying to the core of your being to see
her in charge) - and the story does not end well for GOG MAGOG
and the world.  This crap is manufactured by moonbats who have
no formal education or knowledge of theology, classical
languages, philosophy, Christian history or anything. If
anyone had espoused this worldview through all of Christian
history till the 1800s or so - they would have been burned at
the stake.  They pick a few words from this book and a few
from here - and throw it all together - no context, no
history, no reality.  But they are deemed "experts"
by overwhelmingly large numbers of Christians who have never
picked up a book in their lives.  I love these people - they
are my family - my friends - my community here in Texas and
Oklahoma - but they believe they will go to hell if they vote
for a Democrat.   I was converted into reality by massive
exposure during my residency and early career by seeing what
real people were having to go through - and where there was NO
help from the community or the government.  I realized that
the true Jesus would never have gone along with this.  I am
afraid these people as a group are not going to see the light
until a truly cataclysmic event occurs - whether that be
economical, or some kind of war.  

Well - back to Grandma - I spoke with her this week - things
in Oklahoma are not going well - lots of people losing their
homes - lots of people in the shelters.  I think Grandma is
getting a wake up call ( I really wish there were more people
around who grew up in the Depression - they know firsthand
what 10 or 15 years of fascism/corporatism can do to a
society).  Grandma - the FDR democrat has voted for
Republicans for the past 20 years - Grandma informed me - that
the $300,000 outfit really pissed her off.  Her exact words -
ANY MAN WHO WOULD ALLOW HIS WIFE TO DO THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE
LOSING THEIR HOMES LIKE THIS IS A PUNK.  But more revealing -
the continued comments of Palin about community organizers
really really bothered her.  "Son, if it was not for
community organizers - my family would have died."  She
then announced under no circumstances would she vote for
McCain.  I am not being racist - but it will be very very hard
for Grandma to vote for a black man ( along with McCain's POW
mental health issue - yet another unspoken issue in this cycle
is racism - "elitism" "uppity" my ass
these people are racist ) but I am going to work and pray and
work more to get her to do it.  

I am real - I am deeply concerned and I am a conservative
Republican - in a party that does not want me anymore.

Dagan MD
Dallas TX
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. Thank you Dagan...for posting this..
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 12:42 PM by Stuart G
The internet is quite an interesting place. We appreciate your noticing us here and discussing your letter. You will understand if we are not sure if you are real. This is the internet. Thanks for your time and what you have written before and now.
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
140. I'm glad he's seen the light but
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 12:36 PM by Love Bug
The theocrats had their sights on the GOP during the 80's when this guy was the vice-president of the college republicans -- remember the Moral Majority? Where has he been?

What is sad is it took a lightweight like Sarah Palin to get to this guy. Where the hell has he been during the past 8 years with Bush?

Ah, well, at least he finally learned but frankly, I hold guys like this responsible for the mess we are now in. Funny how it took a woman to 'enlighten' him.
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Venceremos Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
142. k & r
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