This is what FrenchieCat is warning us about (Re: Palin)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/07/uselections2008.republicans2008/print



Read the article.

Understand that attacking the woman personally, with rumors and innuendo, hurts Obama. If we stay on the issues, we win.

Looking at our palin forum, it is easy to see that there have got to be operatives here stimulating this shit.

I'm trying hard to find the Obama or Biden threads.

Have you found any by chance? :shrug:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080907/ap_on_el_pr/hillary_rodham_clinton

"NEW YORK - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton marched for labor and stumped with Democrats on Saturday, but sidestepped questions about the woman who has taken her place as the nation's most-talked-about female leader.


Clinton brushed aside questions about Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin during appearances at New York City's annual Labor Day parade and later during a stop on Staten Island.

"This election is about issues, and that's what's going to matter to people at the end of the day," she told reporters who asked her about the Alaska governor at a rally for a Democratic congressional candidate at Wagner College.

Clinton joined other New York politicians for a Saturday morning breakfast with union leaders in Manhattan, then marched up Fifth Avenue in the city's annual labor parade"

Her answer needs to be ours.

Now there is some irony in that.

Go get'em Hill. Forget they ever doubted and trashed you.

This election is more important than you or Obama. And fortunately you know that.

:eyes:

We're even.:eyes:

Shit, that makes no sense at all. Another failed response.

And a great Democrat.

And I think FrenchieCat is of that opinion as well.

:crazy:

if ya know what I mean......

Obama has been tested from 20 months of brutal Campaigning...she has been in it for 1 1/2 weeks...So much can go wrong with her nom..

If there is mud..it will be found out.

If there is Shallowness, we will soon see

It is she who has to woo America....

But to the point...the real focus is McGrumpy and his decision to risk America with his choice...She being a Newbie in this Larger Realm of National Politics.

McCain is reckless in his choice...

His hype is not gonna work outside his GOP Base

It's about hate on overload destroying our own candidate.

Hard to top what the Repukes did to Cleland and Kerry, no? Did you watch the Repuke convention at all? Entirely issue free.

The stern, authoritarian father is in his element being tough, while the same behavior is seen as unnatural for the sensitive, nurturing mother. Mom is sensitive and tries to explain things to you. Dad dispenses with logical arguments, and simply beats the "truth" into you with his belt.

the thesis being that Palin has the a reasonably decent personal life.

Even outside of the every changing bar the Rs use to pin "character" as an election issue on their opponents, Palin's personal life IS VERY MUCH questionable relative to what we would want to have someone in the White House.

Sorry, this lady has lived her life in both a reckless and exceedingly cutthroat manner.

For all the 1000s of times Rs have said that a D's personal life was outside the parameters of the "mainstream," this lady's life IS outside the parameters of the mainstream.

It isn't OUR fault that she has SO FREAKIN MUCH BAGGAGE, both relative to her time in government AND her personal life.

And why did they win?

This is the hard part to get past. Most Democrats probably don't want to get into all that stuff, they just feel they have to fight back.

There is just his sense that republicans are entitled to use certain weapons that Democrats are not. You always come back to the question, why didn't it hurt * in 2004? It should have.

I saw an election in 2002 where a male candidate attacked a female candidate very harshly on patriotism.
She was an incumbant in the St. Legislature and she had cast a vote against a bill to require the pledge of allegiance. She defended herself but never attacked.

Despite all of those attacks on patriotism every which way and still fresh off of 9\11 and starting a war, she won that election.
People do not like to see women attacked by men.

A couple of years later, a sitting governor attacked his female challenger and lost his primary- for the first time in MO history.

Why do you think that Obama barely flinched when Hillary threw the Kitchen sink?
There is history all across the country in thousands of elections. They know what they're doing.

He starts off by calling the American press "liberal"..

They realize that we are getting the word out about this person, despite their media noise machine, and it scares them. Nobody has ever lost elections attacking the other guy.

John McCain's VP pick *is* an "issue". It speaks to his judgment as a leader. It shows America and the world that he is lying through his teeth when he claims to put "country first".

The press has to stand up to this crap.

This is the election that I believe they will finally be willing to call it like it really is.

I think they are sick and tired of being the scapegoat for all of the GOP's ills.

I could be wrong, remember, most of the press corp following this election are embedded in the government, make high enough salaries to be worried about Obama's tax proposals.

They have to look down their own interests and take into consideration those of the country.

I feel they are up to the task.

I hope I am not proven wrong.

You sure? Don't count on it. I have seen it happen. A man attacking a woman lost, BTW.

She's our resident expert, based on long experience.

But thanks for accusing me.

Now, can you provide the evidence that is so well established?

I'll take some proof from you with my puddin'...thank you.

you are on full tilt over Palin.

How many dont talk about this issue threads on Palin Have you put up now?

Faith... have a little in Obama to lead this conversation exactly where it needs to go.

He's accusing me of playing the race card during the primaries.

I'm still waiting for the proof that he evidently has on that.

I'm all for dogging Palin out her stance on issues.....just not the tabloid stuff.

and church lady is in your mirror.

:shrug:

but I know what's in your bathroom....maybe not as nice, or maybe so, there's a mirror in there.

Either that or you're playing dumb. Which I've
noticed is one of your rhetorical devices.

But if it works for you and your finger pointing
buddies with your 'if you can't say anything nice
then don't say anything at all' feigned intellectual
superiority then fill your boots.

Some of us are not afraid to talk about racism as
a fact in this campaign.

if it makes you happy.


"... we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle - as we did in the OJ trial - or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, "Not this time."
- Barack Obama - Race Speech, Philadelphia, 2008
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23690567/page/3/

according to Republicans you are a race baiting
Democrat. If you are a black Democrat you are a
afraid to leave the Democrat plantation.

If you are a proponent of affirmative action like
Jesse Jackson you are a race pimp. The identification
of Black man as pimp is too obvious to comment further.

You can't make the race issue go away by ignoring it.

Barak is disavowing the race debate for strategic reasons
as you are and quite honestly I think.

But to pretend America is not a deeply racist country will
ensure that it will always be so.

Sarah Palin is a racist in the sense that she is a loyal member
of a racist party. She is the governor of a State with only
two non white state politicians. One is a black social worker,
(you know one of those 'community activists') and the other is
I believe an Inupiat native who is an employee of the Oil Companies.

Alaska natives have independent status as native corporations but
no land rights. The recent Pebble Mine watershed decision is an
example of how little power Alaskan natives have.

Meanwhile next door in the Yukon, NWT and Nunavut natives are
self governing and have veto power over resource development
within their ancestral lands which are vast dwarf and the size of
many countries.

you would know that you are correct when you state..... "Barack is disavowing the race debate for strategic reasons as you are and quite honestly I think."

It is those strategic reasons that I'm thinking of. I want to win.

Does this person look like they would have a
black or native person in her home?




She's a fascist burlesque of a feminist. She's
Leni Riefenstahl, the heroic image of the Tuetonic
Valkyrie.

It's just too depressing. I can't wait for Nov 5 so
I don't have to think about it for another two years.

During the 1920s the Liberal and Left Wing German
parties didn't have the courage to form a united front
with the Communists against the NSDP and the SA. The
result was that the Nazis came to power.

Subtle strategy will not prevail against a determined
authoritarian movement.

And that is what we should do.

Hundreds of fake emails spreading lies about Obama aren't off limits. Why should digging for damaging truth about Palin and McCain be off limits? For us, I mean, not the campaign.

Obama doesn't need enemies.

Keep it up. McCain will be thanking you all the way to 1600 PA Ave.

...because there was a resonance with the message.

The only thing resonating with Palin is the sound of small town moms saying "Assholes, cut the crap!" Obama seems to understand that, but you don't. Want to support the candidate you trust for president? Trust what he says as he runs for president. Or maybe your political instincts are better than his?

Likewise it's great for Obama to keep his hands clean. I'm all for it. But anyone who thinks that dirt on Repubs is no fair is never going to vote for us anyway, and the resonance with that for everybody else is that we are a bunch of gutless wussies.

I'm not on her for being from a small town, but I'm writing every paper I can about her being a deranged Rapture Ready crackpot who might find herself tossing a nuclear football around should McCain croak from melanoma or other hazards of old age. I'll bet it resonates with the majoriy of Christians who aren't into that particular craziness, not to mention others who are sick of whackjobs eliminating science from public policy. I'm also willing to leave the sexual hankypanky research to the lawyered-up National Enquirer.

Make sure that they are really overwrought. Use phrases like "deranged Rapture Ready crackpot." Whatever you do, make sure to keep the attention on Palin and at an emotional fever pitch.

And be sure to tell everyone you support Obama and the new politics. He'll love you for it.

And the MSM is sure the hell not going to tell them. No attack letter should mention the people on our side, and I have no plans to. The Swift Boaters never said a word in favor of Bush--it was all anti-Kerry. Any pro-Obama stuff I write will be about issues and the change theme.

Palin is not only a VP candidate, she is a co-presidential candidate because of McCain's age and health problems.

Doesn't he plan on working for me?

...since obviously your political instincts are better than Obama's.

By the way, seen the latest polls? I guess what we really need is more stories on how Palin let her dog poop in other peoples' yards, and other such nefarious things.

Hey if that's how you like it i know of many countries that can accommodate your desires.Why I think Saudi Arabia, Burma, and many other places that would just love to tell you what to say and think. Are you on your way to the airport yet?

...people who out of sheer orneryness act in such a way as to undermine their larger goals.

You and those like you just keep on stoking the Palin phenomena. The republicans will send you a nice bluemountain.com thank you card, I'm sure of it.

What did you get the wanted action and morons begged you to stay?

and now I'm back. Do you have a problem with that?

the 'break' lasts longer than 15 minutes.

fautrage and pique will last 15 minutes.

Incivility will be permanent.

opinion on this matter? Are you saying we all just relax and have faith that
everything is ok? That she will self-destruct? Even with the horrible
Gallup poll today? I believe any sleeze on her will definitely surface -
but I also firmly believe our response to her was totally weak from the
minute she finished her speech. Every single stupid thing she believes
in should have been repeated - in a unified manner by every single spokesman
we have. That could have been done without trashing her personally.

He thinks Trig is a girl.

to consult our resident President of the Student Council of GDP

People spend far too much time hating her. I'm not willing to give her more than a few minutes of my time, which has expired already. Plus, despite what these people think, it will ultimately hurt Obama.

detail about her. She is asking me to vote for her for VP.

it cannot be denied.

It's been how long now?

They point to msm or tabloid coverage of her family, which she flaunted, as proof of Palin's victimization. One of their major examples is that Democrats are saying Palin shouldn't run because she's the mother of a 4 mo old special needs child. Who on the DU or Kos made that point? It's all theatre.

Repubs aren't reacting to DU or Kos posts

And the other one that bears repeating was from the poster (gbrooks?) who made the observation that America is a racist country and that only a fool or an idiot could somehow convince themselves that "if we simply don't talk about race, it will never become an issue!!!12!"

The Republicans are MASTERS at faking sh*t. There could be nothing but kitten threads on DU and Kos and they would still fix their lips to complain about "liberal lies" and grievances. This a game to them and it is one they will do whatever they have to do to win. I have no idea why seemingly intelligent GROWN FOLKS keep saying that Palin's family is off limits when hardly ANYONE is talking about her damn family here on DU! The vast majority of widely read and responded posts on DU regarding Palin have been about her terrifying, abysmal, 18th century ideals and stances on issues or about her nasty, substance-free speech at the convention.

Thank God the "Grannygate" threads are just about gone and the ones that remain are fading fast. But if I see one more post telling everyone to stop talking about Palin or that her family is off limits when hardly anyone is talking about her family in the first place, I'm going to scream!!!

GOP politics are a product of mind. Like it's model, cultist religion, there are no objective measurements or limitations. There is no right or wrong, nor is there any reality upon which to house "truth" other than the "cause of the day".

Yesterday's sin is today's virtue. Yesterday's saint is today's satan. Yesterday's road to hell is today's path to salvation.

Like their preachers "interpreting" the dogma every Sunday morning, their "truth" is a product of mental alchemy, served up like the Blue Plate Special at a highway diner and made with whatever was in the kitchen at the time.

Most of us here in DU have known this forever, so I'm not saying anything new. But after finding myself feeling the emotional stress of the past few days, regarding the hideous lies that were thrown out to America from the RNC, I guess I just needed to publicly remind myself of where they come from........

... the more the merrier. :*

"The New York Times led the way in painting Palin as a glamour-puss in go-go boots you were more likely to find in an Anchorage lap-dancing club than the Alaska governor's office."

Oh, really? Where did they do that? Oh, you don't have any article in the NYT that even remotely approaches linking Gov. Palin to "lap dancing"? Aaah. I see. Then you were just lying.

This is a classic smear. The blogosphere was up in arms, but the mainstream media has treated Palin with kid gloves. And they still are. Sarah Palin's media blackout ought to be THE major news story of the moment right now. It's unheard of! And yet the media is so cowed by right wing criticism of it, they are willing to let McCain and Palin pull any shenanigans they wish.

Yes, it's easy to overstep the bounds attacking her, but it's even easier to fail the country by not giving her any scrutiny at all, which is what's happening now.

I'm not buying it.

so much more predictably than our own voting public. It would be nice if Dems could stick to the issues & win. But Palin came out swinging & spitting in her nomination speech, and it would be grave error for Obama to just turn the other cheek the way Kerry & Gore did. We all know how well that worked out for us.

That's all.

slur.

The slur? A stab-in-the-back myth directed at "liberals."

The lie? That there is a "liberal press."

WTF???

an article in The Nation said the same thing

keep attacking palin and dems lose

our attacks on palin are winning her votes, at our expense

We dems are making the election more and more about personality and emotion by attacking her

we have to make it about issues, to win

liberals and the left under the bus with his FISA vote. I am still an enthusiastic supporter of Obama and plan to contribute time and $, because I take Chomsky's line. But the idea that liberals somehow "lost" or are losing this for Obama is ludicrous.

Nikki and FrenchieCat need to go off somewhere and have their own PRIVATE handwringing session.

Jeebus. H. Christ.

Her "whining" won't work. She should watch the video of herself lecturing Hillary.

She doesn't need to think she's going to pretend to be squeaky-clean, and nobody's going to bring up the facts. This time, mud is mud, and lots of people are going to be sure that it's noticed. That's simply right, and long overdue. That's a general mood, and not coming from one place or another.

Obama's doing his professional part of it very well. So are we. The tightening in the polls would've happened anyway after the RNC Convention, and probably would've been worse without the scandals being this big.

When she's demolished, McCain's over. It's "the same difference".

Giving this a pass will only allow it to come out AFTER they win by skating on it - we don't need that again. It needs to come out now, fast and furious.

I don't think "hate" is quite right. "Loathe" is more accurate.

themselves away by the very over-the-top nature in which they post the wildest rumors without legitimate substantiation of any kind, and when called on it shriek about "hand-wringing."

Excellent OP. :thumbsup:

We need to focus on the issues and not get sidestepped on rumors or it will come back to bite us on the ass.

we know what the issues are already and it's not as if we can't discuss more than two things at once.

That article is nothing but tripe.

I'm amused you find it to be such "serious business" when it's just some jackass spouting off.

These hand-wringer types are all about *emotion*. Trying to reason with them is pointless. :banghead:

I find the argument of "the hand wringers" to be quite reasonable and well considered, and not in the least emotional.

They aren't wringing their hands anyway, they are saying that the hatefest against Palin is backfiring and doing damage to the campaign and politely asking people to reconsider the way they are behaving about this. Why would that not be of interest to all here? Why is that not a legitimate point worthy of consideration and discussion?

There is nothing in American political history that proves or indicates that sliming the crap out of your opponent costs you votes.

Quite the opposite, really.

Meanwhile, Obama and Biden get to denounce us and thus maintain plausible deniability. It's the best of both worlds.

You softies have cost our party too many freaking elections. Please step aside, for once, and let us get the job done.

Keep denouncing us, though. That's your important role in this process. Thank you.

I love it when you talk "Republican" to me, ya big lug.

I guess ya got our number there, Tex. Yep, us libruls - just a bunch of softies.

"Denouncing you?" "My important role in the process?"

Come on, I just know you are pulling our leg.

Many liberals are fighters. Many fight for what they believe in.

Happily, this election, footdraggers like yourself are in the minority. That's why we are winning, when normally we lose. As usual, the folks who just talk benefit from the efforts of those willing to fight.

We don't mind, though. The future of America is too important to risk it all in yet another lame attempt to "play clean". Sarah Palin came out announcing that she was a "bulldog with lipstick". This time, finally, we are coming out to meet them on the battlefield of perception. Palin is not a nice person, and she doesn't care about your rules of engagement. She is a liar and a hatchetperson. In her first speech to the nation, she attacked everything it means to be American. She is playing dirty. We are fighting back. Politics is no place for weenies.

Get to work or get out of the way. Just don't be surprised when people point out that your strategy has failed us over and over again.

Go bash the shit out of her and don't let any weenies stand in your way.

How do you know anything about me or what my "rules of engagement" are or anything else? What is "my strategy" in your mind?

"Battlefield of perception" eh? What if voters accurately perceive us as a bunch of petty, hateful, crazed lunatics? Is that OK, so long as we aren't weenies?

There is just no way to contain it. Our base is fired up because of Scary Palin and her speech full of lies and her wretched record in Alaska and her bullying and belittling of Barack Obama. She asked for it. I only hope we retain this passion.

When in recent memory, in any election, has the nice guy ever won?

Where has this "base" been for the last 8 years? I haven't seen these insistent demands that we ape the right wingers before. Is this a base that we didn't know about - the tough guy base - that is just now emerging?

Many "nice guys" have won, if by nice guy you mean candidates who don't make personal attacks and who don't wallow in the mud.

"Passion?" You call this passion? Hatred is more like it. It will backfire very seriously. You are making Palin seem much more formidable then she is.

45 years I have been active in the Democratic party at all levels, and imagine - I didn't even know "our base" until the last few days. "Our base" it seems, is not much different from the Republican base as it turns out.

You say:

"Many "nice guys" have won, if by nice guy you mean candidates who don't make personal attacks and who don't wallow in the mud."

But i'd have to go back to Carter to say that about a President. And forget about Local contests... it's the rare occasion when the "nice guy" wins, it's usually about who has more money to spend and what connections they have secured.


I think you may be out of touch with "your base".


I don't think being critical of your opponent necessarily implies "aping right wingers" either.



So you're an old-school Dem... i'm glad you've been working for the Party all these years. Surely you know that Times, People, and Sentiment change as the years go by.


Most of the Young Democrats i know are really TIRED of getting the shit end of the stick. They are vocal and assertive about their rights and goals. They use tactics that are modern and effective. I have never seen ANYONE of the hard-core Democrats i associate with "wallowing in the mud".....



:shrug:

I am talking about what we fight about, not whether or not we fight.

Yes, fighting cultural wars is aping the right wingers. They created that game, and they will always win it.

It is a symptom of how weak the party is if the only way we can imagine fighting or being tough is with attacks on a candidate's personal life and engaging the right wingers in their beloved cultural wars.

We have had 8 years of your kind of warfare now, with the party failing to take any stands or to fight the right wingers, while everybody gets their hate on for "chimpy." I would say that is the failed approach, myself. That seems like "weenie" politics to me.

Let's take the Republicans on over issues of substance, rather than Palin's personal life. That would seem to me to be the right "rules of engagement" and being on the right "battlefield." That would take some courage though, unlike sniping at Palin with tawdry and salacious cheap shots, which is about as safe to do as it is ineffective.

I guess acting and talking like a tough guy is more important - and certainly much easier - than actually being tough.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

It's a bunch of asshole propaganda anyway. You're a fool to believe it has anything to do with reality.

I dont give a shit what any right wing nut says.

"Hitherto a strong critic of American foreign policy describing himself as "anti-American" <3>, he created controversy in 2002 when he announced his support for the invasion of Iraq and denounced the left for, as he saw it, "anti-Americanism" and failing to address Islamist ideology. "The left... has swerved to the right," he wrote.<5> His critics have argued that he has in fact swerved to the right himself, and labeled him a neoconservative<6>, pointing to his praise for Paul Wolfowitz and George W. Bush. Cohen now seems to accept this, writing that he is "turning... into a Tory."<7>"

Again, why should I care????

:shrug:

That tells me all I need to know about his credibility.

Regards

And busy denouncing people who supported that war in the same way he denounces people who opposed the Iraq war today. Of particular amusement is the article he wrote for the New Statesman at that time entitled "Why it is right to be anti-American".

I've read his book "What's Left" and it's extremely poor. His basic argument is that because Saddam Hussein was a bad man it was right to invade Iraq, in spite of all the disasters that have followed, and therefore anyone who opposed the Iraq war is in Cohen's eyes a Saddam apologist.

Where (as you can imagine) his argument does not stretch he tends to resort to personal abuse of anyone who disagrees with him, and blathering on about the Worker's Revolutionary party (who nobody on the left other then Cohen gives two hoots about).

Fuck him.

But pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Thank you for posting this.

Maybe we can cut a deal. We'll stop posting about Palin if the poster you're referring to actually makes good on her threats to "take a break", quit, leave, or whatever. Quit teasing us, already!

a non white person on the nation's currency.

This race is about race and you, FrenchyCat
and the rest of your 'happy face' buddies can
go on trying to play nice to no avail. It doesn't
work against determined and disciplined RW cadres.

Kerry played nice with Grover Norquist and Greg
Corsi and look what happened.

This ain't Haight Ashbury 1967. Being nice and
wearing flowers in your hair failed then and will
fail now.

Yes, Palin is a last desperate gasp by a flailing beast. But she's more than that: she's the new face of our enemy.

After the election, I mean. She's not going away, and she's going to be so much worse than anything we've seen to date.

The level of cult-like enthusiasm for her among the fundies is damned ominous. The corporate wing of the GOP is going down... Palin represents what's going to take its place. The more I read of her, the less harmless and the more apocalyptic she seems.

Get ready: this election is just the beginning. After that, the war begins in earnest.

And nothing does that like a world-class utterly disgraceful scandal - especially for morality freaks. She handed us the "vampire's stake through the heart". Not using it would be looking a gift-horse in the mouth. In this case, suicidal.

She'd probably "rehabilitate" after a time, like Nixon and Reagan, anyway even if it works.

The issues are no less important - I'm not saying that. But a two-fronted attack is even better, especially when it isn't fabricated. There's no making-up of mud about this. It exists, all on its own, and she caused it.

it's fine.

Obama and Biden have remained on target, that's what counts in the concern. A little light of day on the Governor of Alaska and the cynical process of selecting her damages McCain on multiple levels.
She's new and it's a good thing to get a grasp in the conditions on the ground. Turns out the have the unique but familiar stench of an extremist Republican.

This is another illustration that John McCain acts first, thinks later (if ever), and all he does anymore is for political expediency.

His use of the term "liberal Press" reveals his bias right from the start.

This is another article that can be used to line the bottom of my bird's cage.

It's not Democrats going after her family, it's the National Enquirer, US Magaqzine, and the sensationalist press. And you know what, people buy it and they love it.

So this know it all wants us to believe that the masses eating this stuff up, watching, buying magazine, etc. are going to (a) get mad at the intrusion into Ms. Palin's famili life and (b) forget that they read it in the Enquirer, People, etc. and blame Obama as their information source.

This is a totally full of b.s. position.

One of the reasons McCain picked Palin is so he would create a controversy..

Fact, the "rumors" of Bristol being the one who gave birth were floating around for months. You would have to be a retard to not know that this would get pushed out farther by nominating her, same thing with her 17 year old now being knocked up.

Even her first prime time speech was a complete joke.

If I didn't know any better I'd swear the GOP is trying to throw this election. I mean come on, it wasn't 3 days after her announcement that 5 or 6 different alleged scandals came up. That's WAY TOO EASY.

Palin should be, and WILL BE taken down in the debates. This is what is really at stake, not her involvement in corruption, or lying or her kid's delinquency.

Her and McCain both, mainly McCain, need to be attacked with what they don't offer.... a LEGITIMATE outline of their plans for our future.

Damn. Could've fooled me.

/sarcasm

While I think this article may be pure bullshit, I do agree we are spending way too much time talking about "she who must not be named." It's time to get Obama back on the Greatest Page.

BY A WRITER THAT SUPPORTED THE IRAQI WAR.

What is said here provides nothing more than a few salacious criticisms on the other side of the blogosphere, and frankly, that matters not a whit.

Obama and his campaign apparatus will stay on the issues, and they will win, with the donations and enthusiasm of millions, some of whom are right here on DU gleefully engaging in a pile-on that has already yielded some satisfying morsels. We feast on their feeble brains or we lick their boots. That's where progressives have ended up; that's the long and short of it now.

Fortunately, the rumors and innuendo have nothing to do with Obama. They don't hurt him, they don't figure into his calculus at all except insofar as the partisans out here in the ether keep sending him money and keep sniffing around the edges of the enemy encampment.

I have no use for the gossip-mongering about Palin, but I hate the idea that the scorn about her self-evident main-chance opportunism and near-total lack of actual substance has to be censored. The netroots exist to activate, energize and mock. If they don't achieve this, through means that are often outrageous, they don't achieve anything. The RW realized this long ago, but on our side of the political spectrum we're supposed to keep our noses clean and conduct ourselves according to some Emily Post standard of politesse, or some self-imposed Oxford debating rules?

I say no.

Should I quit reporting what I find?

I was just agreeing with what JeffR said.

My childrens' lives now rest in your hands.

Here, take some time out, and see some other predictions of mine, so you'll know why I have concerns on this:

Dec '07 Prediction as to who would the Republican Nominee - see date
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3805809&mesg_id=3805809

Why McBush picked Chenlin
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6614871

Wagging the dog
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6626107

Other stuff that the GOP have in store for us -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6897651

See what I predicted Obama needed to and did do - see date
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5230567

Trouble for the Clintons ahead - see date
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4014875&mesg_id=4014875

The Key to our Democratic success
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6675325

why Obama will win the GE - see date
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_frenchie_080517_how_in_the_general_e.htm

but don't get disingenuous with me and tell me your kids' lives rest in my hands. How dare you? It's cheap, it's disingenuous, and you ought to know damn well better than resorting to that pathetic tactic here. You ought to be ashamed.

If you disagree with me, fine, but don't start resorting to such utterly bogus, intellectually vacant tactics. It's completely beneath you, and it's appalling. If you have a case, make it. Otherwise, stop demeaning your own reputation with this crap.

I simply disagree that the issue of race needs to be part of the discussion right now in this election based on a report of what someone said they heard someone else say.....

The race issue in the primaries almost destroyed OBama's candidacy. Of course, we are now at the GE stage, and so this race issue becomes even more caustic....so of course, I'm perhaps overly passionate about it.

But I'll shut up and reconsider that aspect, though I'm far from sold.

My apologies, too, FrenchieCat. I'm a huge fan of yours, but I think you're just off-the-mark on this.

or on my analysis either. I have been right too, like you

I said before.


I will do everything in my power to destroy these people
they are fucking evil..... I trust Obama, in fact
I have been invited to be a leader at his campaign school.


We didn't elect you to dictate to us, and I find that
you're condensing preaching on this board as an expert, neither
modest nor conducive.

You have your shit that you are good at
I have mine.

Nance and Jeff have theirs too.

and I'm not sure why you are bent out of shape.

I don't believe that I have done anything more than you have done; spoken my mind.

In essence, you are telling me that I don't have a say in reference to folks getting excited about a report of what someone said that someone said. :shrug:

I'm not into the kids, the personal, the race, the culture wars....because there are so many OTHER issues that have scandal attached to them. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

but then you had to do it again
and again and again and again and again.


We are not stupid here. You do know now that she is racist don't you?
Listen, I already spread that news story out to a million readers.

And it wasn't from this site.... which is like the shire to me where I hide.

Get it? This place is like the shire to me and sometimes it acts like it, with
all its great and small minded attributes.

This place doesn't have the web power of the sites that count.

They do pay attention to this site and that is the front page
only agents go to this portion of this forum.

I like and respect you but you went overboard.

If McCain wins, Palin will turn on him and force him to resign within the first half of his term. Health issues won't come into play; Palin will destroy McCain and become President.

NOT!

Frankly, I'm of the opinion that in life, nice guys finish last. Most guys hate it when someone calls them "nice". They would rather be called "tough".

I was asked to hold back........... this is war
and I'm Legoisis taking down the elephant.

The British would be horrified at Gov. Palin. They would turn up their snooty little noses at her. So, do not take any of this tripe seriously. This is 100% "We must keep troops in Iraq so that we can move troops in Iran next" propaganda.

You know what real Americans think? They think "How can a mother out her pregnant teenage daughter to distract the press from her own scandals? How can she make the girl stand up on national TV and tell everyone she is an unwed mother?" They just don't want to say it and embarrass the girl. This is what the average folks at home are thinking.

:nuke:

abandonment of old labor. In retaliation he
decides to perversely advocate for the Iraq
occupation as a way of pulling the whiskers
of new labor. As if the Tories would do any
thing different.

A single quote of Nick's wisdom will suffice
to prove his London Trot/Stalinist pretensions.

"Apart from Tony Blair's image, his sincerity,
his integrity, there's no ideology behind it,
beyond the standard neo-Conservative ideology
of the day, and so his integrity is kind of
all they've got."

His mockery of Tony's bourgeois pretensions is
classic Faux Trotskiite/Maoism obsession with
the style over substance. In truth the English
left just wants to be as middle class as Prince
Charles and his favorite horse Camilla.

he kisses B*shs ass and thinks the Iraq war is just peachie.

latest child is a boy, and not a girl.

the whole "bridge to nowhere thing". It makes a complete mockery of the supposed bravery of the 'no thanx' claim, and now it makes a complete mockery of the MSM (as their obedient silence about the flimsiness of the flipflop spin in 2004 did). But of course, the same "take off your britches and sell out under ice" syndrome of obedience to illegitimately exercised power ALSO maintains silence about the problem in the MSM, including in the "independent" blogosphere, etc.

Listen -- when the mob owns the track, they decide who wins the races; similarly ...

And provides succor and solace for our opposition ....

American 'liberal' press .... my pink ass ....

There are LEGITIMATE questions regarding this new face in the American body politic .... they deserve EXTREME scrutiny ... This view is intended to make sure the 'American liberal press' backs off and goes light on the republican party nominee for vice president ...

I say ... hogwash .... She deserves the same scrutiny that Roger Clinton, Billy Carter et al received by that same 'liberal press' ....

Sheeeesh .....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/27/barackobama.uselections2008

Another article, by the fellow who wrote the article in the OP.

Oh, and read the comments, too. That's who you are standing with. Please come back over here with your fellow Democrats. We're trying to remove these guys from the levers of power. We could use your help.

Taking advice from the enemy is not smart. Anyone who uses "liberal" as a generic pejorative is the enemy. Thus, the handwringers lose a little bit more credibility. Thank God, because we weren't ever winning elections when they called the shots.

ChipperbackDemocrat (247 posts) Fri Sep-05-08 07:57 PM
Original message
I'm Dang Eager To Engage In The Campaign.
Lock and Load! That is what our adversaries say a lot. They beat their chest and talk about how they want to "lock and load".
Bring 'Em On! Isn't that what our adversaries said about Al Queda? "BRING 'EM ON!"

Well, after seeing what I saw coming from Minneapolis this week, I'm locked, loaded and ready to bring it on!

Why? Because, I've seen the plan of attack and if that's the best the Republicans have got, they are in deep trouble.

All Governor Palin's speech was, was a nice "get the white folks scared" speech. It was a veiled attempt pitching the to the inside of the plate and I have a feeling it repulsed more people than it attracted. It was the typical Republican, "We're saying we're for you, but we are really ridiculing you" speech. And I have a feeling in these serious times that most people are thinking serious enough to where it just won't cut it.

Senator McCain's speech was pretty much. "He's gonna do this to you, but we won't" speech. It was dime-store Reagan simplicity. But nearly every undecided voter I know had the same question, What are you going to do? That's the question the Republicans can't answer. Because we know what they are going to do. The Cheap Labor Conservatives have shown their hand. Sarah Palin showed us the real. They have to run the playbook. They have to play the "Race Card" the "We're Tough" Card and they "Osama Two Men Kissin' Card."

They've came out right out with it when took the hatchet to community organizing.


What Sarah Palin said. "I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities. I might add that in small towns, we don't quite know what to make of a candidate who lavishes praise on working people when they are listening, and then talks about how bitterly they cling to their religion and guns when those people aren't listening. We tend to prefer candidates who don't talk about us one way in Scranton and another way in San Francisco."



What Sarah Palin meant "Its a cultural war for the soul of this country. The agenda Clinton & Clinton would impose on America--abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools, women in combat units--that's change, all right. But it is not the kind of change America needs. It is not the kind of change America wants. And it is not the kind of change we can abide in a nation we still call God's country."


This is why I am eager to engage and defeat these people. Because they have nothing to play with, and we have a serious team that has my Three Bs.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden have the BRAINS. They've showed it so far in the way they've handled this contest so far. They haven't retreated but they haven't taken the low road either. They've done some Sun Tzu. They are winning the moral contests in the temples before the war has been fought this far. Notice how their speeches weren't cheap shot attacks, but put out the difference simple and plain.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden have the BALLS. They've showed it exactly by showing the brains. They are doing this Wellstone-style. Strength through intelligence, heart and hustle.

and there is the biggest B...BELIEF! Why do our Republican adversaries ridicule Obama's hope? BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ANY HOPE. America isn't the high ideal they say it is. This nation and everything in it has become a plaything for them. They see it as a chance to extend their personal power trip. That is what the last 7 years has been about. A few greedy, angry people have decided that they just want to have some power and they set up the mechanisms to do it. Anything that shows a most positive course for the world as a whole run smack into their quest for power. They claim to "Love The Lord" but they worship Baal and Asherah. To them, there is no new frontier, except a frontier they control at any cost. Of course they can't do it alone, so they find their Coalition Of The Willing. They find foot soldiers, most of whom have more in common with what these wannabee Ayn Rands despise. This Coalition Of The Willing, matches their key demographic only in the sense that they share the same skin tone in most cases. However, skin folk rarely equates to kinfolk.

Many of these foot soldiers could never be a "Bush Pioneer". They aren't the K Street jet set, they're the beat up ol' Chevro-let set, and much more of that set are waking up..all because somebody said, "ENOUGH! We can be better!"

Our adversary are afraid of that, because they know what the stakes are. If you build a coalition of people who feel they don't have a stake across all line and show them what their stake in the game is, then its sheer numbers. They don't have enough power-drunk rich folk to tip this election. We have more than enough pissed-off working folk to dominate this election and we have a team that can get organized and get it running...and they have millions of people who will go to the wall to get this one.

At lunch today, I registered a couple more. They've never voted before, but they see daylight and they are running towards it. That's why I'm eager to engage, and that's why McCain-Palin and their minions are afraid.

If we all stand tall and work for this, they'll need a billion Diebold machines to beat us and that won't be enough. They know that have nothing to run on so they have to be ugly. The difference is our effort is stronger, tougher, smarter and our product is better, and now more and more of us are seeing it.

THEY ARE SCARED, AND THIS PAST WEEK THEY SHOWED HOW SCARED THEY REALLY ARE.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6958051

We should listen.

Here, try this valid angle.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6970888&mesg_id=6970888">"One Simple Question" on Experience.

I see no need to harp on her personal issues, deep though they seem to be. It ought to be enough to show what a risk McCain is taking with our national security by presenting a governor who can't govern, a mayor who couldn't may. She's an empty suit, as the ludicrous GOP spin proves.

one moment please
:puke:
ah... i feel better now....
okay where was I ... oh yeah, *alerts*

Just got flamed for my trouble.

The more she gets smeared, the more popular she becomes. Please note, not a single smear has stuck.

Much as I hope everyone takes Barak's advice to stay away from the family I notice a dangerous trend in his campaigning. He has been taking her on directly. He has to remember that he is running for president and she is running for vice-president.

You can take this seriously if you want to, but I'll pass. Did you really even read this piece you just posted? The first friggin' line should have set off your warning bells and caused you to look up the author.

It took 2 seconds to find this.
Cohen argues he promotes left-wing democratic secular humanism, and is regarded by some supporters as belonging to the intellectual tradition of radical writers such as George Orwell<4> and Albert Camus. Hitherto a strong critic of American foreign policy describing himself as "anti-American" <3>, he created controversy in 2002 when he announced his support for the invasion of Iraq and denounced the left for, as he saw it, "anti-Americanism" and failing to address Islamist ideology. "The left... has swerved to the right," he wrote.<5> His critics have argued that he has in fact swerved to the right himself, and labeled him a neoconservative<6>, pointing to his praise for Paul Wolfowitz and George W. Bush. Cohen now seems to accept this, writing that he is "turning... into a Tory."<7>

"My colleagues in the American liberal press had little to fear at the start of the week."

All he seems to talk about is "liberal media" this and "liberal journalists" that. He sounds like a repuke.

No Democrats in office have attacked the woman personally. This is more playing the refs bullshit. The Republicans have been doing this for years. It's not new that's what they do because they have no issues to play up!

What I say hasn't a bloody thing to do with the campaign as I speak for myself. Seriously, someone's going to decide on who to vote for because they don't like the topics on which I comment? Please! That says more for the person involved than it does me. I'll discuss what I find interesting without scolding thank you very much.

Regards

This is the Guardian Newspaper which is a left of center paper in the UK, unlike the Times of London which is right of center.

But I've also checked out the author's other articles. The author is either a Neocon or a Neocon apologist. There is no credibility there.

The Guardian is not 'left-of-center', it's left. However, it's in a bit of a pickle. AFter years of criticising the tories, a labour government was elected, which the Guardian naturally supported. And then the 'labour' government statred enacting policies every bit as regressive as the Tories, including embarking on the Iraq war. SO the Guardian is kind of adrift at the moment.

The Times presents itself as the paper of reoord, but being ownned by Murdoch, leans right.

And British people don't see the split you think, they are just a bit mystified by all the shouting...

But you better believe that behind closed doors they're loving it that all these questions are coming out about her. We're doing the dirth work for them.

since the beginning of the primaries that Obama didn't/doesn't deserve some of his supports, maybe even allot of them. They think they're on the cutting edge of a brand new theme. But they're stuck in the same old shit. Watching this All Things Palin Crap just cycling over & over & over & over again round & round & round accomplishing nothing has for me been a regurgitation from within some, too many in fact; of the same old excuse for being a pissy cyber shit-head.

M$M has even referred to it as Palin having been tossed red meat before true believers (personally I think she's a cardboard Rovian pop-up children's book but boy has she been worth every single penny), but you are able to see that they are able to believe in ways we have not imagined...and yet here's DU...sucking the marrow from the bones.

BULLSHIT. This isn't even worthy of a thread.

This article makes the media and the democratic party one and the same. It isn't. The media will do what it does to generate copy and ratings. We don't control the media although quite a few here mistakenly think we do. We have to attack McCain/Palin while distinguishing themselves from us on the issues. The Palin attacks will find fruit when she pops her bobble head up in a non-controlled unscripted forum.

How does the article explain Republican wins in 2004 or even 2000? Do me a favor and run that analysis please.

...politically. We need to bring the machette to the knife fight. If the Repukes want to fight it out, we need to fight on AND BEYOND their terms. We need to evicerate their positives.

J

and what`s coming out of Alaska is`t very pretty. if the net would`t have jumped on the story who knows if the corporate media would have bothered. it`s a dirty job when you have to shovel shit to clean out the sewer but someone has to do it.

johnnie boy never bothered to inform the fbi so they could run a background check...a little bit to late because the net did it for them...

Obama was right to try and call his press buddies off. But they wouldn't listen.

Now with US Weekly, MSNBC firing anchors, etc. we are seeing a backlash.

And it has helped Palin and McCain.

Now this gives the repubs a license to go after any skeleton of Obama's. We are going to hear tons about Ayers and Obama's birth certificate.

Watch out folks. Getting ugly.

Watch CNN. At least they are unbiased and will not give in to McCain.

but not for us to fight fire with fire? What a bullshit sexist double fucking standard. Fact remains that Palin is a corrupt, unqualified politician chosen solely because she has a vagina. That ain't my fault.

truth from heaven? What is wrong with folks?