When the election is stolen....

You will do nothing, the people you call leaders will do nothing, and the media will do nothing.

The republican family and friends that you have will support the election results...again, and tell you to get over it ...you WILL get over it and do nothing, you will continue to treat these people as equals and show them respect.

Your nation will cry out for someone ...anyone ..to defend it, you will remain silent.

You will turn your back on the nation...again, and embrace the very people who are tearing it apart.

Wake up people, we are not talking about policy differences, we are talking about our Constitution.

You can't respect the US Constitution, and at the same time respect the very people who are tearing it up.

Sorry for the rant, I am just sick of the hypocrisy and betrayal....I have reached a breaking point.

Go out, canvas, phone bank, get involved or just shut the fuck up about "stealing it".

IF you won't do anything to help, you're just hurting our chances.

Period.

So...you think the past two elections were legit ? ...Jeeeesh, talk about ignorance.

2000 was determined by five people on the Supreme Court.

good thinking

perhaps the OP is right

Iwantanydem isn't joking.

That DU member REALLY thinks the 2004 election in Ohio was legit.

I am from Ohio and it was not legitimate at all. Go google Thomas Noe and Karl Rove, then google Mahoning County Ohio, Perry County Ohio, and Hocking County Ohio, I could go on and on and on but Ohio has 88 counties

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2007/2379

if you don't want to google just click above link

The closer the pre-election polls, the easier it will be for them to take one important state and sway the results.

It CAN happen again.

I'm not sure if John Kerry has made a statement about the validity of the '04 elections.

The case against the legitimacy of the Ohio election has been reopened in order to make the theft more difficult to repeat. The evidence keeps mounting. 2004 was stolen.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't do our damnedest to make our lead too large and our oversight too intense for them to succeed again. Notice that "Blarch" is working his rear off despite his qualms. Are you?

Bradblog is over the top. Sorry.

The time to complain about a lack of enough voting machines and voter rolls is not after the election has been held. You do what Obama is doing this election and point people in the right direction to insure they are registered to vote.

of throwing the recount. They may still be in prison.

2004 was legit like Bush is a member of freaking mensa.

Troll.

is already going on in ohio NOW.

Sorry -- sometimes dreams seem so real.

100% legitimate.

You'er crying over spilt milk because nobody thought they had to insure they were registered correctly to vote.

You don't get a do-over because people screwed up their own part of the process.

Ohio was legitimate. Stop whining and help Obama insure people are correctly registered to vote.

until you showed up to vote and were denied? Are you saying that 200 million people should call their local election offices and get some sort of proof that they're on the rolls. That's ridiculous. I don't think you are a Democrat, but a repuke troll in disguise.

Blackwell did a fantastic job of being non-partisan, and the election was totally legitimate.

I think the OP is right - I share his frustration; I share his fear.

What WILL we do if/when the election is stolen - again?

Sorry if you cannot get it through your head, but there are rules and regulations to the voting process. The Repyublicans have learned to use those to their afdvantage. IT is up to the Democrats to counter that.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

and then tell us again how everything the RePUKES did was on the up-and-up.

Sorry, fail.

Their tactics may be despicable, but they did not steal shit. The time to counteract their shit is now, and Obama is doing that where KErry failed to do anything about it.

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Granted there's no smoking gun, but boy, a whole pile of circumstantial evidence that points to wrong-doing. I guess you also thought OJ was innocent.

Methinks you should actually read about the '04 Ohio elections before you spew your unsubstantiated BS.

Harper's Magazine reported on it: http://www.harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080696
Democracy Now! reported on it: http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/17/harvey_wasserman_on_new_ohio_voting
Alliance for Democracy reported on it: http://www.thealliancefordemocracy.org/html/eng/2473-AA.shtml

If there was no wrong doing, why did Blackwell lock down a vote count? If there was no wrong doing, why were 2004 election records destroyed against federal law--isn't that not following the "rules and regulations to the voting process?" What's in it for you you that you have to work so hard to prove it didn't happen?

:eyes:

Guess that makes you the EXPERT, doesn't it?

Obviously they've indicted a wrong person. As you well know, poll numbers don't lie so Bush obviously won the 2004 election easily. :eyes:

http://elections-o.channel.aol.com/elections/story/_a/pollster-pleads-guilty-to-making-up/20060907093409990001

2004 was stolen.

DON'T GET OVER IT!

Sure, it was legitimate. It was legitimate if you discount all the electronic voting booths that somehow "flipped" in *'s favor. It was legitimate if you ignore all the accounts of voter intimidation and fraud around the country. It was legitimate if you think that exit polls mean absolutely nothing at all.

Whatever you say, pal.

research what happened in Ohio in 2004

fucking homework. Ever hear of caging?? Ever hear of vote rigging?? Wake up for once!:mad:

I can't imagine how this is helpful at this time.

How is embracing the enemy helpful ?

If it's going to be stolen, why bother?

Definitely the concern troll trend these days.

That are the obstacle.

It is uneducated people like you that have allowed the thefts to continue.

It is a shame that you bear alone. The rest of us stand and fight.

He has been hearing the news about massive voter caging in the swing states, and he is wondering if the worst happens, can he stand it again. If no one close to "Barch" feels as intensely as he does about what 4 more years of illegitimate R rule means, it's understandable that he looks here for support. What we need to do is give him some good news--that we are doing more this time, that Ohio may succeed in blocking voter elimination simply because of returned mail. (The new SOS is working on it.) And that at least a good proportion of us are ready to mobilize if we see theft again.

When I see how much more blatently partisan the MSM is even than last time I get a little worried too. ABC and CBS played more of the Republican convention than the Democratic one and had Republicans doing critical commentary on the Democratic convention, but no Democrats at the table for the Republican one. There's also a total failure to report on Palin's many weaknesses, and their total dereliction of duty over the past 7 years to report the statements of the many highly qualified computer experts who say that it is impossible to be confident about the accuracy of a vote tabulated by computers.

I try to balance those thoughts with awareness of Obama's good polling. I don't agree with his prediction either. I think we'll see young people out en masse despite tear gas and rubber bullets if this one looks stolen.

We are sitting at 2 in a row right now.

Our hope is that it is not close enough to steal it again, but you have the media always claiming it is closer than it really is and people will start believing it

Are you on the right website?

I've lost all respect for both those batshit conspiracy camps.

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In 2004, 839,231 people voted in the Texas Democratic primary.

In 2008, 2,874,986 people voted in the Texas Democratic primary.

That's just Texas. Democrats are going to show up at the polls in numbers that have been unheard of for decades. They ain't gonna steal nothing this time.

purging more voters than they have in the past.

Does it help for us to have more voters if they are just purging more voters ?

I would think that would be obvious.

...historically, the more people that vote, the more Democrats get elected, and the Republicans know that. This is why we have to keep registering more and more and more Democrats, and make sure that they get out and vote.

(they have many ways to bump people out of voting.)

and who says the votes will be counted correctly or the count changed.

What if millions and millions of voters that used to be republicans pull that curtain and vote Democratic because they're closet change lovers?

Better yet, what if millions and millions of republican voters stay home?

We can play what if all day. The trick is to know our rights and overwhelm them at the polls. If you're worried, then tell eveyone you know to get registered and get informed. A good place to start is here:

http://www.vote411.org/

Our turnout in the 2008 primary (Super Tuesday) was more than 10 times what it was in 2004.

18,000 plus in '08, 1,300 in '04.

And don't bother to point out that Texas has about as many people in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Megaplex as does all of Kansas. In a really red state, we had 10x the turnout in 08 as in 04.

Just a little joshing. That is a WHOPPING increase in the Texas Democratic turnout and hopefully will turn the state blue in November.

I have been doing everything to support those who want to expose this administration for what they are, TRAITORS

When the Republicans that I know told me to "get over it" in 2000, and 2004, I showed them the FACTS. The facts that votes were caged, and machines were rigged. They do not have my respect for one minute!

I have stood up against the traitor-in-chief, and his cronies, by organizing people in my area, and getting out on the 'net and telling others about the actual record of this regime.

My Representative, Maurice Hinchey (D-21 NY) has co-sponsored several bills for the impeachment of Cheney and Bush. With the endorsement of his constituency.

We folks here in the Hudson Valley are mixed as far as our views on our leadership, but let me tell you, 90% of us know that what Bushco, Inc. has done is illegal, and must be investigated, and the criminals should be in jail.

and in the one state that still uses mechanical lever machines so that until they are switched in 2009 vote tampering is almost impossibe, although there have been reports recently of caging. (Guess they're just warming up for when they can steal for real.)

Many years ago I lived in Ithaca, NY, and Hinchey is to the House who Wellstone was to the Senate--the North Star of progressivism. If you want to know whether or not a bill is good for the regular citizen, just look at where Hinchey stands on it. He and his staff read all the fine print and think about how it will play out in real life. As soon as those e-voting machines are in, he will probably be targeted. He must be pretty old by now. I hope someone good is being groomed to succeed him.

There is a move on to get rid of them, as soon as it's legal to do so. As it stands, the electronic machines are only being used for those handicapped voters who want to use them.

As far as Hinchey goes, I just saw him Saturday, and he called the Bush Administration, "The most corrupt administration in history." Hinchey may be old, but he's still got that fire, but should he decide to retire, I am certain that there are at least a dozen people who can do the job as well as he does.

In the meantime, in a neighboring district, freshman congressman, John Hall, of Orleans fame, seems to be doing very well in a district that was formerly a Republic party stronghold.

Stop it!! This is NOT 2000, or 2004! Obama is watching it very carefully. There are 1500 lawyers in Florida who will be watching over the elections, and I bet there are just as many in all of the other states too.

kerry had the lawyers. he pressed the cases. they even prosecuted some in ohio. but none of this stuff will be addressed unless we the people yell out, throw tantrums and that is from both sides. obama has kerry and they will try. but after seeing 2004 without the support of ALL people, it wont get done.

not at fault of obama or kerry or any one person... it is the whole

What are the lawyers doing about this ? ...NOTHING ...Ohio just got hit with a large purge ...what are they doing about that ? ..NOTHING.. What have they done over the last 4 years to fix the problem ? ...NOTHING.

In swing-state Colorado, the Republican Secretary of State conducted the biggest purge of voters in history, dumping a fifth of all registrations. Guess their color.

In swing-state Florida, the state is refusing to accept about 85,000 new registrations from voter drives – overwhelming Black voters.

In swing state New Mexico, HALF of the Democrats of Mora, a dirt poor and overwhelmingly Hispanic county, found their registrations disappeared this year, courtesy of a Republican voting contractor.

In swing states Ohio and Nevada, new federal law is knocking out tens of thousands of voters who lost their homes to foreclosure.
http://www.gregpalast.com

Lawyers are worthless until way after the fact. That is their training, to look BACK at a set of facts and rehash and rehash them until they arrive at some equitable answer validated by a court. They aren't taught to plan and anticipate the future and it is not part of their character. I think that Obama the lawyer would be in the same poor position as Gore and Kerry if it wasn't for the fact that Obama the community organizer does know how to anticipate and plan for the future.

This month of September needs to be a HUGE voter registration drive, one that can put people on the voter rolls faster than the nefarious Republican operatives can drop them off.

nonforwardable address notices. The Ohio Dems are urging absentee ballots!

...and here's the link that includes the text of Brunner's directive.

In Florida, the law prohibits hand counting of ballots except in undefined "special circumstances". So there is no routine audit of the computer tabulators. There is also no well-defined chain of custody regulations for the ballots.

This time we've got a candidate who will fight and claw every inch of the way. Obama has already proven that 2008 will be nothing like 2004 in terms of us sitting here waiting for our candidate to do something and only ending up being frustrated to no end.

records? OBAMA. He's on it.

i do not keep silent and i do not turn my back. i do not embrace. and i am ONE voice

Most turn their backs on the nation when it comes to family and friends.

That choice is get busy with the campaign, and keep on top of things, or sit back and wait for it to fall apart.

The one sure fire way to lose, is lose heart.

Just saying

will or won't do.

If you sit back and not fight, we will lose to the evils of the Fascist Party.

Fight for your freedom. Don't ever quit.

it will be a claim made by the fundie republicans.

Thanks for putting things into proper perspective

From your keyboard to the universal connection of all being.

If they do steal it, America has shown they will do nothing, this is a fact.

It is very probable that the Dems will win the election ...but the problem is that the repubs ARE TRYING TO STEAL THE ELECTION.

There is a group of people in our nation who are trying to CRUSH OUR DEMOCRACY ...and the Dems seems to think it is A-OK as long as the Dems win.

Call me a radical, but I believe that anybody that trys to destroy our constitution and crush our democracy deserves a bullet in the head.

according to you.

Barack Obama and his camp are not going to let anyone steal shit, so enough with this "the world is coming to an end, and we're gonna sit around and watch it happen" rhetoric.

and we will not hold them accountable....again.

Regardless of who wins ...This group wants to crush our democracy, and many Dems still show them respect. I have a deep problem with that.

Guaranteed they'll drop Obama like a hot potato come a stolen election.

they will steal this one

makes me sick

We won that one.

one or two of them, maybe, but not a shitload. Presidential elections are a piece of cake.

Like is said, I'm going back to bed. I've had enough pearl-clutching for this morning.

What are you doing to stop voter suppression? Hmmm?

Works every time -- much better than reprising the role of Pollyanna.

Question is, will they succeed? I'm encouraged a bit by the fact that they weren't able to pull off 2006, though gods know they surely tried. We simply overwhelmed them with numbers and with the economy reaching such a crisis. BUT, they've surely learned from that experience and are adjusting to it, just as our guys have (hopefully!!) learned from 2000 and 2004. We just have to keep a step ahead of them with the sheer numbers.

Thats not the question.

The real question is why don't we hold them accountable ? ..They are trying to crush our democracy. And people like you are willing to let them slide as long as we win. How has that worked out for ya ?

Kinda makes it hard to have a productive discussion. But hey, if it makes you feel better to fling accusations and insults at people you don't even know, fellow Dems though they may be, then by all means have at it.

You didn't care if they tried to steal the election, as long as we won.

The question isn't if they pull it off again, the question is if they will be held accountable.

the answer is no.

Agreed. Until people stop buying the MSM's distortion that this is "boys will be boys" and that all pols do it, rather than it is an organized criminal effort by a conspiracy of well-placed Republicans, our form of government has been severely compromised. It is not a good idea to delay prosecution until they've converted Blackwater into a full-fledged private army. They must be charged under RICCO before that.

They have already used physical intimidation. There is good reason to believe that the anthrax attacks on Leahy and Daschle have played a part in the reluctance of Congressional Dems to impeach Bush/Cheney.

With each election cycle, they get better at stealing it. The criminals cannot be allow to walk and they know it.

Establishing that media industry will pay a price for collaboration with neocons.

(I would suggest wireless, but most of us are locked in by contract.)

Assume Obama wins vote 54-46, and Republicans steal vote. This Media Cancellation Strategy would get a lot of that 54% and additional independents. That's a lot of money for Comcast, Time Warner, and newspapers to lose...

If even 1/5 respond, that could actually make things happen. Of course it would have to be activated by telephone tree, as any website advocating that would be shut down somehow and the leaders will be arrested for something or other. Hmmm.

if mc cain is declared the winner, everyone will know it is stolen. some of the calmest people i know have promised to riot.
i intend to take to the streets, whatever the cost.

But that fucking muppet is just cracking me up too much. :rofl:

The corporate news media had discussion topics ready on Guns, God & Gays to explain the oddities of exit polling showing Kerry 51 to Bush 48 when the "final count" flipped during the wee hours. They even tried to discuss why polls are faulty, even though exit polls that simply ask "who did you vote for just now?" have been very accurate over time and have been used to judge the fairness in elections all over the world. We use them to judge other countries' elections. Still the corporate media struggled to pretend they were faulty by discussing faulty methodology in other types of polls. But it was Guns, God & Gays, we were told. Sad but true, don't you know.

And sure, now, with the Hail Mary appointment of an unqualified extreme fundamentalist to the Republican ticket, it feels like they could be throwing the human embodiment of "Guns, God & Gays" issues into the mix to explain away more fraud planned. That's what may have activated your flashback. See below for my foolish hopes for 2008-- they need us to clean up so they'll let our choice stand.

When we cried foul on election night in 2004 because here and elsewhere our friends in the field were reporting on all kinds of Republican election manipulation, moderate people said we were ridiculous conspiracy theorists. Even respected, actually liberal media called us foolish for insisting that the reports be investigated because fraud had occurred. Then in January 2005 the report on "What Happened in Ohio" came out to confirm that another election had indeed been manipulated to their advantage by Republican operatives. But we had been told to shut up and drop our silly conspiracy theories and accept the fact that dear John Kerry had lost because "he ran a bad campaign." Even after our country had experienced the worst presidency in its history, with rampant war profiteering and the shame of Abu Ghraib by then.

This time, things are even worse than they were in 2004. Republicans have created more wreckage. This time we've got Obama, who has run a great campaign and has been striking back against Republican smears. Sometimes he issues the strong rebuttals in regional ads and we miss them, but his team's been pretty good on that score. We've got record numbers of new Democratic registrations. We are poised to win. Obama is talking about moving forward, rather than staying locked in the past, and thus, bringing some Republicans and Independents into the fold. Many Americans know we need change and probably would rather do it with hope and Obama, rather than in panic, too late, with Republicans in charge bailing out the rich and letting the middle class sink further.

Kerry conceded so early that I was really angry at him for years. I still wish he'd waited 48 hours or so before conceding. Screw the "be a gentleman" crap. If there are super long lines again in Democratic districts, showing that no accommodation was made for increased Democratic registration we know has occurred, hold off an early concession. If Republicans once again send teams to challenge voters at the polls to delay the process and discourage people, I hope Obama can resist his courteous side and just hold out any concession until all the votes have been counted. If any of these ugly Republican tactics show up again, then an automatic 24-hour delay in any concession should be made.

Republicans used multiple methods of vote manipulation and many of them just affected a few thousand votes. Each one reported at the time was "not significant enough to change the total outcome." Add them all up and you've got another story. But no one bothered to add them all up. Too could be too disturbing. That Republican party chairs were also Secretaries of State wasn't something to worry about, we were told. Drop that inconvenient conspiracy stuff. Multiple witnesses be damned. "Just get over it and accept the loss," we were told.

>> Republican teams sent to challenge voters at the polls in Democratic districts to make the lines longer and discourage more people from voting were observed and commented on but that was called not enough to change the outcome.
>> Republican caging list emails were discovered. But that was too small a find.
>> Voters in democratic districts were misdirected with fake robocalls and fliers.
>> Electronic voting machines broke down and were "fixed" by techs from the manufacturers. It didn't matter that the companies were Republican partisans. Some states have since rejected electronic voting without paper trails, but elsewhere the same machines are still in use. Maybe Democratic hackers can get in there and rebalance things.
>> We demonstrated how easily the machines could be hacked, but I guess that was too scary to take to heart and clean up.
>> To review that material, please see Uncounted, www.uncountedthemovie.com and Greg Palast's website, www.gregpalast.com

This year, I'm just secretly hoping that the Republican leadership will let us win because they have seen how the climate crisis is following a more severe scenario than we'd hoped and major changes in alternative energy are required quickly so we need Obama and the Democrats to come in and move us forward to avert the worst disasters. I'm hoping the Republicans will realize we need free medical care for all in order to help our workers tolerate the corporate wage lowering with globalization.

Republicans need Democratic leadership to clean up their messes again, so I hope they will let us win this time. Hope they will remember that the last time we won, the Democratic administration cleaned up the economy and handed Dubya a surplus. Hope they let us come in and avert disaster.

If you suspect a corrupted election, and the vote counters will not publically count the votes, you get your gun and your lawyers, and you force them to publically tally every vote. "If you have nothing to hide, then you don't mind being investigated."

It has been done before, at the 1946 'Battle of Athens' (Tennessee):

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm
On 2 August 1946, some Americans, brutalized by their county government, used armed force to overturn it. These Americans wanted honest, open elections. For years they had asked for state or Federal election monitors to prevent vote fraud -- forged ballots, secret ballot counts, and intimidation by armed sheriff's deputies -- by the local political boss. They got no help.

If we allow our voting system to become closed and inaccessible, it will be all but impossible to wrestle freedom back without bloodshed.

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posting things like "when the election is stolen" isn't doing anything to help the morale around here. I come to DU not only for news and information, but for support and positive energy from fellow Democrats. From what I've been reading, I think most folks around here are pretty aware of the fact that we need to have a strong voter turnout this time so there is no doubt. I'm hoping that people will leave their defeatism at the door, and concentrate their energy on making this a landslide! :bounce:

I know it's a two way street.

GOBAMA! GOBIDEN!

:bounce::bounce::bounce:

Don't give in to your fears.

Focus on creating and thinking about what you DO want to see. Try THAT on for size.

Thoughts matter. Get with the program, dammit.

But the "It's not Conspiracy, it's Incompetence" argument will get a shot in the arm.

The number one issue for me in this campaign, more important than other supremely important issues is that of the way the Bush administration has destroyed the U.S. Constitution, lied us into war, ruined the economy: in short, the many crimes of the Bush administration.

I want these crimes investigated and the criminals punished as an example for posterity that this cannot be allowed to go unpunished in a civilized society.

If the unthinkable should happen and McCain should win, it will result in the final cover-up and burial of the facts that would otherwise establish the prosecution's case against George W. Bush.

:sarcasm:

I'm sick of this "it's no use, they are gonna steal it. Might as well give up. Woe is us. Wah Wah." BS.

because we're gonna win by so many goddamn votes and so many goddamn states, that it will be impossible to steal. The GOPpers can only steal an election if its close. We won't make it close.

My prediction: 538 Obama 0 McCain.

This is going to be one historic blowout. The polls are not taking into account young voters who only have cell phones. They don't get the cell phone only people, they get a close election. In my gut, I feel that this thing is going to be far from close, and there will be no freakin way that they can overturn a blowout.

The Republic party is running scared. Why do you think they are branding their candidate as a maverick? Why do you think that they are distancing themselves from Bushco, Inc.? Why do you think that are not talking issues about their opponents, and only lies? Why do you think they are giving us the same empty rhetoric that they have been giving us for thirty years?

They are toast. Put a fork in them, they are done. They're baloney with out the mayo. Done, dead, gonzo.


And they cannot steal it this time, because the revolution will not be televised!

but every person I know is pro-Obama and I've seen a total of two McCain bumperstickers. IN KENTUCKY!

It leads to a tendency to completely fail to believe they have a chance but I still keep fighting on.

Yes, I can feel positive ONLY IF VOTERS SHOW IN BETTER NUMBERS THAN THE PRIMARY!

I love the young people and hope depends on them!

they have been very good at that through the years

....move to Canada! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

call me names, I dont care, I will just quit.

Can you detail how to behave if the Rs take it in November?

We publicize a type of MSM boycott, canceling our cable and all subscriptions to the larger newspapers and any paper part of one of the major chains, and the big news weeklies. Since they tell us next to nothing useful anyway, all we'd be losing is CSPAN. Part of the boycott info should be lists of websites dealing with our major concerns like the environment, peace, good government/anti-corruption, education, politics, and election integrity so that we can keep up with Congressional activity on those things through their e-newsletters. {The American Friends Service Committee's mailed newsletter broke the important Viet Nam War news that the MSM wouldn't touch, way back when.)

It is truly the doing of the MSM that has allowed the systematic election fraud not to be labeled criminal activity by a group of well-placed Republicans in cahoots with voting equipment mfrs., which it actually is. It's been the MSM who twists themselves into pretzels trying to explain how the vote tallies are legitimate and the exit polls are massively wrong for the first time ever. And it was the MSM who actually blacked out news of Conyers' limited, but informative non-impeachment hearings so that they couldn't precipitate a nationwide grassroots call for impeachment.

Media Matters could monitor the MSM to see what effect we are having, so we won't be tempted to cheat.